***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ :: Other Crimes and Mysteries :: Ben Needham - missing from the Greek Island of Kos in 1991
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
This is possible, however no one saw him disappear?worriedmum wrote:Why would the shorts and the cars disappear?
The most likely reason is that the shorts were dry and someone put them back on Ben..who was holding on to his toys at the time?
So some-one took a live little boy away, wearing his shorts and holding his cars?
No one saw anyone put the shorts on Ben which would have taken a little time, or they could have just snatched them from the tree when taking Ben.?
Would he have kicked up a fuss? Made a noise to alert as all intent and purposes it would have been a stranger?
All in two to three minutes of them noticing he was "quiet"?
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
Worriedmum:
‘The most likely reason is that the shorts were dry and someone put them back on Ben.’
Like who?
Not the grandparents or anyone working at the farmhouse apparently and they were hanging on the tree right outside the kitchen door where grandma was supposedly keeping an eye on Ben from.
‘The most likely reason is that the shorts were dry and someone put them back on Ben.’
Like who?
Not the grandparents or anyone working at the farmhouse apparently and they were hanging on the tree right outside the kitchen door where grandma was supposedly keeping an eye on Ben from.
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
There are so many similarities between the latter day investigation into the disappearance of Ben Needham labelled 'Operation Ben' and that of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann labelled 'Operation Grange'.
Like the McCanns, after all the years since Bed Needham's disappearance - without a single sign of life, Kerry Needham says she believes her son was abducted and is still alive. Chances of abduction under the circumstances, in my opinion. even more remote than Madeleine McCann being abducted.
Daytime studio sofa sittings; television appeals; websites with a donation button and the sale of good quality wristbands and age progression images; unclaimed rewards; grants by the Home Office; case reviews/re-investigations by UK police; private searching; UK police digging up countryside; case hampered by local police; media blitz every May and October; family and friends, the only people around at the time of child's disappearance, don't know anything - last seen alive around and about.
If I can't convince you, take a look at the press coverage around May 2015.
Uncanny!
Like the McCanns, after all the years since Bed Needham's disappearance - without a single sign of life, Kerry Needham says she believes her son was abducted and is still alive. Chances of abduction under the circumstances, in my opinion. even more remote than Madeleine McCann being abducted.
Daytime studio sofa sittings; television appeals; websites with a donation button and the sale of good quality wristbands and age progression images; unclaimed rewards; grants by the Home Office; case reviews/re-investigations by UK police; private searching; UK police digging up countryside; case hampered by local police; media blitz every May and October; family and friends, the only people around at the time of child's disappearance, don't know anything - last seen alive around and about.
If I can't convince you, take a look at the press coverage around May 2015.
Uncanny!
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
what's your theory?Doug D wrote:Worriedmum:
‘The most likely reason is that the shorts were dry and someone put them back on Ben.’
Like who?
Not the grandparents or anyone working at the farmhouse apparently and they were hanging on the tree right outside the kitchen door where grandma was supposedly keeping an eye on Ben from.
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
Long article from 2009 giving family background information & surrounding Bens disappearance, their struggle, Gordon Brown non-help, the white car etc. etc. Worth the time to read.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/29/missing-child-ben-needham
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/29/missing-child-ben-needham
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
Too many unknowns and discrepancies to have any definite theory as to what happened.
The accident & damage to Stephen’s bike needed further examination, as did his story about never taking Ben on his bike, as everyone else seemed to suggest that he did.
Grandparents were allegedly in the kitchen, with Danny & Michaelis Kypreos,
when Ben suddenly went quiet and his shorts vanished from the tree. The tree is immediately outside and slightly to the right of the door, so nobody could have come down from the road and taken the shorts without risking being seen. The farmhouse was in a pretty much derelict state at the time, although they were working on the roof, somewhere on the property, on that day, so the kitchen was hardly somewhere they could all sit down around a table for lunch and not be aware of what was going on around them. A boy could wander away, but not the shorts.
Only Kerry seems to have an independently verifiable alibi for the day, being at work at the hotel.
Too many holes in the stories from all of the others.
Quick search up & down the road etc, followed by nothing!
Christine wanders back to the caravan, no Stephen & Ben, so does nothing.
Doesn’t walk last few hundred yards to Kerry’s flat or the hotel.
Eddie, Danny & Michaelis just get back to work on the roof.
White car, cement mixer, digger down the road/up at the farm. Too many un-collaborated stories from people who were supposed to be around, all taking place up a track which was virtually a cul-de-sac at the time.
Some things are definitely not right.
The accident & damage to Stephen’s bike needed further examination, as did his story about never taking Ben on his bike, as everyone else seemed to suggest that he did.
Grandparents were allegedly in the kitchen, with Danny & Michaelis Kypreos,
when Ben suddenly went quiet and his shorts vanished from the tree. The tree is immediately outside and slightly to the right of the door, so nobody could have come down from the road and taken the shorts without risking being seen. The farmhouse was in a pretty much derelict state at the time, although they were working on the roof, somewhere on the property, on that day, so the kitchen was hardly somewhere they could all sit down around a table for lunch and not be aware of what was going on around them. A boy could wander away, but not the shorts.
Only Kerry seems to have an independently verifiable alibi for the day, being at work at the hotel.
Too many holes in the stories from all of the others.
Quick search up & down the road etc, followed by nothing!
Christine wanders back to the caravan, no Stephen & Ben, so does nothing.
Doesn’t walk last few hundred yards to Kerry’s flat or the hotel.
Eddie, Danny & Michaelis just get back to work on the roof.
White car, cement mixer, digger down the road/up at the farm. Too many un-collaborated stories from people who were supposed to be around, all taking place up a track which was virtually a cul-de-sac at the time.
Some things are definitely not right.
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
Well, this latest from the Mirror, the intelligent tabloid, just 45 minutes ago really takes the biscuit..
Agony of Ben Needham's grandad as he returns to Kos: 'Did I work on farmhouse foundations at centre of search?'
22:11, 4 Oct 2016
Updated 22:25, 4 Oct 2016
The former builder wants to look at the concrete foundations under the torn-down building to see if they’re the same ones he worked on a few weeks after Ben went missing.
The extension, ripped down in 25 minutes by a JCB today, is attached to a farmhouse that Eddie was renovating on the day Ben vanished, July 24, 1991.
He said while he is “nervous” about returning, he is desperate to help solve the 25-year mystery that has plagued his family.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ben-needhams-grandad-did-work-8980373
Question of the day - when is a concrete foundation not a concrete foundation? What does a concrete foundation look like - a foundation made with concrete? How do you remember what a concrete foundation looked like when you laid the concrete 20 years ago?
Who does this farmhouse belong to now - you can't just go steaming in with a JCB demolishing someone's property. Did South Yorkshire police apply for permission through the Greek authorities to carryout this work of demolition? I doubt it - that's not how the system works.
Something is most definitely amiss with this case.
Agony of Ben Needham's grandad as he returns to Kos: 'Did I work on farmhouse foundations at centre of search?'
22:11, 4 Oct 2016
Updated 22:25, 4 Oct 2016
Eddie Needham is travelling to Kos to look at the concrete foundations under a torn-down building to see if they’re the same ones he worked on a few weeks after Ben went missing
The former builder wants to look at the concrete foundations under the torn-down building to see if they’re the same ones he worked on a few weeks after Ben went missing.
The extension, ripped down in 25 minutes by a JCB today, is attached to a farmhouse that Eddie was renovating on the day Ben vanished, July 24, 1991.
He said while he is “nervous” about returning, he is desperate to help solve the 25-year mystery that has plagued his family.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ben-needhams-grandad-did-work-8980373
Question of the day - when is a concrete foundation not a concrete foundation? What does a concrete foundation look like - a foundation made with concrete? How do you remember what a concrete foundation looked like when you laid the concrete 20 years ago?
Who does this farmhouse belong to now - you can't just go steaming in with a JCB demolishing someone's property. Did South Yorkshire police apply for permission through the Greek authorities to carryout this work of demolition? I doubt it - that's not how the system works.
Something is most definitely amiss with this case.
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
Police chief Det Insp Jon Cousins said of the investigation: “We have also found marks made by the bulldozer we believe was used by Dino Barkas back in 1991.”
What marks does a bulldozer make, where would they be? Have they forensically compared them with the digger used back then?
If Bens remains are found under those foundations it is a very sad and sorry state of affairs.
What if Barkas did accidentally kill Ben and didn't realise until later after he was reported missing? Maybe found him deceased on his land, decided to return to the farmhouse and use the cement as a "cover up"?
The police have released so much in this case the past few weeks, they must have some firm idea surely, they wouldn't demolish part of the farmhouse on a whim, would they? To bring Eddie back to view the foundations seems odd, I wonder if the police think someone from the family knows more? I hope this is not the case, nah can't be, can it? Crucifying!
IMO
What marks does a bulldozer make, where would they be? Have they forensically compared them with the digger used back then?
If Bens remains are found under those foundations it is a very sad and sorry state of affairs.
What if Barkas did accidentally kill Ben and didn't realise until later after he was reported missing? Maybe found him deceased on his land, decided to return to the farmhouse and use the cement as a "cover up"?
The police have released so much in this case the past few weeks, they must have some firm idea surely, they wouldn't demolish part of the farmhouse on a whim, would they? To bring Eddie back to view the foundations seems odd, I wonder if the police think someone from the family knows more? I hope this is not the case, nah can't be, can it? Crucifying!
IMO
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“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.”
Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
There's something very strange unfolding in the case. I am convinced that Ben's grandfather knows a bit more than he's said over the past 25 years.
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
MayMuse, what is puzzling me is, why didn't the Needham family say more about the digger. If the marks ARE that of a digger, and it was working right outside the farmhouse on the day Ben disappeared, then a lot more questions need to be asedMayMuse wrote:Police chief Det Insp Jon Cousins said of the investigation: “We have also found marks made by the bulldozer we believe was used by Dino Barkas back in 1991.”
What marks does a bulldozer make, where would they be? Have they forensically compared them with the digger used back then?
If Bens remains are found under those foundations it is a very sad and sorry state of affairs.
What if Barkas did accidentally kill Ben and didn't realise until later after he was reported missing? Maybe found him deceased on his land, decided to return to the farmhouse and use the cement as a "cover up"?
The police have released so much in this case the past few weeks, they must have some firm idea surely, they wouldn't demolish part of the farmhouse on a whim, would they? To bring Eddie back to view the foundations seems odd, I wonder if the police think someone from the family knows more? I hope this is not the case, nah can't be, can it? Crucifying!
IMO
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
If the body is right next to the house then I'm also puzzled how that could have happened with the family knowing.
I presume the family would have known about holes and diggers next to the house at the time and a hole would be a pretty obvious place to look.
I'll be surprised if they find anything.
I presume the family would have known about holes and diggers next to the house at the time and a hole would be a pretty obvious place to look.
I'll be surprised if they find anything.
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
‘He is coming as a result of a request from myself (DI Jon Cousins) ……………. and I want to form a good understanding of his recollection of the activities around the day and the days after Ben's disappearance.’
http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2016-10-05/ben-needhams-grandad-may-have-worked-on-building-at-centre-of-search/
Surely he has been recently interviewed by the team prior to the dig starting, so is this going to be a challenge/cross-examination of his stories?
Hard to believe they could have got this far and are only now asking him just for further information, but the way they seem to work, who knows?
http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2016-10-05/ben-needhams-grandad-may-have-worked-on-building-at-centre-of-search/
Surely he has been recently interviewed by the team prior to the dig starting, so is this going to be a challenge/cross-examination of his stories?
Hard to believe they could have got this far and are only now asking him just for further information, but the way they seem to work, who knows?
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
This might be about appearing to do something.
Anything.
So no one can claim it's only the McCanns that get enormous sums of money.
Anything.
So no one can claim it's only the McCanns that get enormous sums of money.
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
You mean without the family knowing? I agree and have said all along I don't think anything will be found, time yet I suppose to eat my humble pie.BlueBag wrote:If the body is right next to the house then I'm also puzzled how that could have happened with the family knowing.
I presume the family would have known about holes and diggers next to the house at the time and a hole would be a pretty obvious place to look.
I'll be surprised if they find anything.
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“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.”
Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
IF what the police are saying is correct.Surely they'd have verified this before the excavation and bulldozing, I do not recall anyone mentioning a digger at the farmhouse that day, only in the road?sallypelt wrote:MayMuse, what is puzzling me is, why didn't the Needham family say more about the digger. If the marks ARE that of a digger, and it was working right outside the farmhouse on the day Ben disappeared, then a lot more questions need to be asedMayMuse wrote:Police chief Det Insp Jon Cousins said of the investigation: “We have also found marks made by the bulldozer we believe was used by Dino Barkas back in 1991.”
What marks does a bulldozer make, where would they be? Have they forensically compared them with the digger used back then?
If Bens remains are found under those foundations it is a very sad and sorry state of affairs.
What if Barkas did accidentally kill Ben and didn't realise until later after he was reported missing? Maybe found him deceased on his land, decided to return to the farmhouse and use the cement as a "cover up"?
The police have released so much in this case the past few weeks, they must have some firm idea surely, they wouldn't demolish part of the farmhouse on a whim, would they? To bring Eddie back to view the foundations seems odd, I wonder if the police think someone from the family knows more? I hope this is not the case, nah can't be, can it? Crucifying!
IMO
Still does not explain the missing shorts and toy cars.
____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.”
Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
One of my Admin ladies has posted a video on my CMOMM facebook group of Eddie Needham arriving at the farmhouse to tell the police officers what he can remember of the foundations.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/JillHavernCompleteMysteryofMadeleineMcCann/permalink/1811932485717903/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/JillHavernCompleteMysteryofMadeleineMcCann/permalink/1811932485717903/
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
Yes sorry.. without!MayMuse wrote:You mean without the family knowing? I agree and have said all along I don't think anything will be found, time yet I suppose to eat my humble pie.BlueBag wrote:If the body is right next to the house then I'm also puzzled how that could have happened with the family knowing.
I presume the family would have known about holes and diggers next to the house at the time and a hole would be a pretty obvious place to look.
I'll be surprised if they find anything.
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
Thank you, i find the whole media reporting an intrusion at such an obvious excruciating time for the family.
Are they going to do this when they "find" Maddie?
Are they going to do this when they "find" Maddie?
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“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.”
Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
Ben Needham's grandad has returned to the Greek island of Kos as he fears he may have accidentally laid building foundations over the site where his grandson is believed to have been crushed to death and buried.
Guilt-stricken Eddie Needham, 68, is assisting investigators as they probe whether the toddler was killed by a digger in an accident at the building site 25 years ago...
...
As he returns to Kos, Eddie hopes to find out if the foundations he laid under the farmhouse extension after Ben's disappearance are the same ones that are there now.
'If he was buried there he has been buried there on purpose,' Eddie told the Mirror.
'I can't believe anybody would bury a baby. Nobody would be that evil. But I believe that we have been spun a spider web of lies all these years,' he said.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3822776/Ben-Needham-s-guilt-stricken-grandad-returns-Kos-missing-toddler-s-remains-beneath-building-foundations-laid.html?ITO=1490
Guilt-stricken Eddie Needham, 68, is assisting investigators as they probe whether the toddler was killed by a digger in an accident at the building site 25 years ago...
...
As he returns to Kos, Eddie hopes to find out if the foundations he laid under the farmhouse extension after Ben's disappearance are the same ones that are there now.
'If he was buried there he has been buried there on purpose,' Eddie told the Mirror.
'I can't believe anybody would bury a baby. Nobody would be that evil. But I believe that we have been spun a spider web of lies all these years,' he said.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3822776/Ben-Needham-s-guilt-stricken-grandad-returns-Kos-missing-toddler-s-remains-beneath-building-foundations-laid.html?ITO=1490
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
The narrative surrounding Ben's disappearance has never changed and is essentially what is written below:
"On 24 July, Christine, Eddie, Danny, Stephen and the owner of the house, Michaelis Kypreos, were in the farmhouse eating lunch. Ben was playing on the terrace just outside the door. He was running in and out, pouring water over his head and messing about with a stick. They could see through the open door on to the terrace where Ben was playing. There was a tree on which they'd hung his wet shorts.
At about two-thirty, Stephen left on his moped to go for a swim, a beer and a shower at Kerry's flat. Ben wanted to go with him; he'd been on the bike before, and now he wanted to go with his uncle. A few minutes after Stephen left, Christine registered that Ben had gone quiet and went outside. He was nowhere to be seen. She, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis Kypreos searched up and down the lane, in the field by the house, in a nearby orange grove, calling for him, looking anywhere he could conceivably be. When they couldn't find him, they assumed he must have gone with Stephen; it was the logical explanation. They thought Stephen had taken Ben for a ride and would bring him back. About an hour later, thinking Stephen had gone to the caravan instead of coming back to the farmhouse, or had gone to Kerry's flat, Christine walked back to Paradisi, while Eddie, Danny and Kypreos stayed working on the roof.
In the early evening Eddie went to the caravan expecting to find Ben with Christine. He wasn't, so Eddie went to Kerry's flat, thinking he'd be there. Stephen was there, but without Ben. Eddie raced back to the caravan to tell Christine and then went back to Herakles in the Land Rover. Stephen took Christine to the police on his bike and then joined his father. It was several hours since Ben had vanished by the time the police took Christine to the hotel to tell Kerry what had happened. Kerry had finished her shift and was sitting by the swimming pool when her mother arrived, sobbing, to tell her Ben had disappeared."
The thing I have never understood is that Christine, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis were sufficiently worried after 'Ben had gone quiet' that they all went searching for him - he wasn't even two years old - he's only just a toddler.
On finding no sign of him they presumed he had gone with Stephen on his bike.
No confirmation? No thinking 'we haven't looked thoroughly enough, he may have wandered further'? No thinking he may have fallen down a ditch and banged his head?
Without IMMEDIATE confirmation that he went with Stephen, how on earth would you go about your normal business for the next six hours without being 100% certain as to the whereabouts of a 21 month old toddler. That's not normal IMO.
"On 24 July, Christine, Eddie, Danny, Stephen and the owner of the house, Michaelis Kypreos, were in the farmhouse eating lunch. Ben was playing on the terrace just outside the door. He was running in and out, pouring water over his head and messing about with a stick. They could see through the open door on to the terrace where Ben was playing. There was a tree on which they'd hung his wet shorts.
At about two-thirty, Stephen left on his moped to go for a swim, a beer and a shower at Kerry's flat. Ben wanted to go with him; he'd been on the bike before, and now he wanted to go with his uncle. A few minutes after Stephen left, Christine registered that Ben had gone quiet and went outside. He was nowhere to be seen. She, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis Kypreos searched up and down the lane, in the field by the house, in a nearby orange grove, calling for him, looking anywhere he could conceivably be. When they couldn't find him, they assumed he must have gone with Stephen; it was the logical explanation. They thought Stephen had taken Ben for a ride and would bring him back. About an hour later, thinking Stephen had gone to the caravan instead of coming back to the farmhouse, or had gone to Kerry's flat, Christine walked back to Paradisi, while Eddie, Danny and Kypreos stayed working on the roof.
In the early evening Eddie went to the caravan expecting to find Ben with Christine. He wasn't, so Eddie went to Kerry's flat, thinking he'd be there. Stephen was there, but without Ben. Eddie raced back to the caravan to tell Christine and then went back to Herakles in the Land Rover. Stephen took Christine to the police on his bike and then joined his father. It was several hours since Ben had vanished by the time the police took Christine to the hotel to tell Kerry what had happened. Kerry had finished her shift and was sitting by the swimming pool when her mother arrived, sobbing, to tell her Ben had disappeared."
The thing I have never understood is that Christine, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis were sufficiently worried after 'Ben had gone quiet' that they all went searching for him - he wasn't even two years old - he's only just a toddler.
On finding no sign of him they presumed he had gone with Stephen on his bike.
No confirmation? No thinking 'we haven't looked thoroughly enough, he may have wandered further'? No thinking he may have fallen down a ditch and banged his head?
Without IMMEDIATE confirmation that he went with Stephen, how on earth would you go about your normal business for the next six hours without being 100% certain as to the whereabouts of a 21 month old toddler. That's not normal IMO.
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
That is indeed to the point.The thing I have never understood is that Christine, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis were sufficiently worried after 'Ben had gone quiet' that they all went searching for him - he wasn't even two years old - he's only just a toddler.
On finding no sign of him they presumed he had gone with Stephen on his bike.
No confirmation? No thinking 'we haven't looked thoroughly enough, he may have wandered further'? No thinking he may have fallen down a ditch and banged his head?
Without IMMEDIATE confirmation that he went with Stephen, how on earth would you go about your normal business for the next six hours without being 100% certain as to the whereabouts of a 21 month old toddler. That's not normal IMO.
Were they all incredibly stupid?
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
Michaelis died of a heart attack 3 days after the first dig 4 years ago?
____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.”
Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
MayMuse- Posts : 2033
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
They have said that themselves, may be it was the heat, the sunshine, a few glasses? The relaxed atmosphere ?BlueBag wrote:That is indeed to the point.The thing I have never understood is that Christine, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis were sufficiently worried after 'Ben had gone quiet' that they all went searching for him - he wasn't even two years old - he's only just a toddler.
On finding no sign of him they presumed he had gone with Stephen on his bike.
No confirmation? No thinking 'we haven't looked thoroughly enough, he may have wandered further'? No thinking he may have fallen down a ditch and banged his head?
Without IMMEDIATE confirmation that he went with Stephen, how on earth would you go about your normal business for the next six hours without being 100% certain as to the whereabouts of a 21 month old toddler. That's not normal IMO.
Were they all incredibly stupid?
____________________
“Basically, I’m just an ordinary, straightforward guy who’s the victim of the biggest f***-up on this planet – if you’ll excuse the language.”
Robert Murat talking to David Jones, Daily Mail, 02 June 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-459316/Madeleine-Is-Robert-Murat-suspect-scapegoat.html
MayMuse- Posts : 2033
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
With no such thing as mobile phones in those days if they had searched everywhere within a certain distance, knowing how far a toddler could go, and if they had all established that he wasn't there, ditches/ holes checked, no passers by, etc. then if he had gone with Stephen on his bike in the past, it would be a consequence to think that had happened this time.MayMuse wrote:They have said that themselves, may be it was the heat, the sunshine, a few glasses? The relaxed atmosphere ?BlueBag wrote:That is indeed to the point.The thing I have never understood is that Christine, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis were sufficiently worried after 'Ben had gone quiet' that they all went searching for him - he wasn't even two years old - he's only just a toddler.
On finding no sign of him they presumed he had gone with Stephen on his bike.
No confirmation? No thinking 'we haven't looked thoroughly enough, he may have wandered further'? No thinking he may have fallen down a ditch and banged his head?
Without IMMEDIATE confirmation that he went with Stephen, how on earth would you go about your normal business for the next six hours without being 100% certain as to the whereabouts of a 21 month old toddler. That's not normal IMO.
Were they all incredibly stupid?
Also, don't over rule the element of 'disbelief'. People don't automatically think the worst. It doesn't normally or immediately come into daily thinking, it's usual to think there is a more logical explanation.
I know this (shamefully) from experience. My son was delivered to the house I was holidaying at, by a local lady. We were a big crowd who had during the afternoon been joined by other friends and relatives and when some of the ladies had gone back to get the supper ready with some of the children, the men and the rest were left in charge of the other children.
My 6/7 year old son had been fascinated by the horses in the stables and innocently and independently gone back there when the place was closing. Slipping the net, we were all in disbelief when he was returned (a couple of hours later) and yes, no one had actually noticed he wasn't there.
Luckily, he had managed to describe something of the place we were staying in and the local lady knew it was a holiday let. She was most disgruntled that no one had noticed. When she knocked at the door as it was getting dark I first remember my initial surprise, then disbelief, then shock, as with kids rushing around everywhere in the garden, a big meal to be prepared and all the search for enough chairs, knives forks spoon, plates, etc. we genuinely all thought every one was with someone else.
Shameful, but true.
He is now a father and aren't we lucky, but life does throw these moments up, and responsible or not, the odd incident can stretch things to the limit and sometimes catch even normally the most responsible people off guard.
This is why I feel Ben's circumstances are different from Madeleine's. The initial response was not, 'oh he's been abducted'.
But immediate telephone calls to relatives, of a forced entry that wasn't forced and an announcement to the press of a paedophile gang abduction, before a thorough search has been done, makes me think, pre-planned.
To all of Kerry's family, my heart goes out. I hope this search will finally bring resolution and they may rest knowing at least what happened.
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Re: ***'Kos dig' starts 26 Sep 2016*** (was: Kerry Needham 'prepared for worst' by investigators)
But Ben was only 21 months old and he hadn't been overlooked - after 'he had gone silent' they were all concerned enough to actually start searching for him.
That search would have continued until he was found or Eddie would have jumped in his car and tracked Stephen down to ensure Ben was with him.
I can remember the panic setting in when I lost sight of one of mine, when they were toddlers, even for a few moments.
I can't believe they shrugged their shoulders and said 'we can't find him so he must have gone with Stephen' and feel relaxed about it for the next six hours - surely nobody does that.
But then again, who would let a 21 month old go on a motorbike without a crash helmet? That's certainly an accident waiting to happen.
That search would have continued until he was found or Eddie would have jumped in his car and tracked Stephen down to ensure Ben was with him.
I can remember the panic setting in when I lost sight of one of mine, when they were toddlers, even for a few moments.
I can't believe they shrugged their shoulders and said 'we can't find him so he must have gone with Stephen' and feel relaxed about it for the next six hours - surely nobody does that.
But then again, who would let a 21 month old go on a motorbike without a crash helmet? That's certainly an accident waiting to happen.
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