"What's the evidence that Madeleine died on Sunday 29 April?"

Also worth a look: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=885814576299474

Wrong Child written into the impossible Timeline when checked against later Statements.

If it's true another timeline was found in Kate's possession, and I'm not convinced it is.
It's more of an indication that Madeline was alive up until Thursday evening.

Think of it this way Crusader.

Either since Sunday they spent all their time and efforts to create false sightings and leads just in Case Madeleine was going to have an Accident on Thursday night.

Or the earllier Death on Sunday or Monday was the cause of it all.

Unless anyone has a better solution?

What are the efforts they used to create false sightings.

Here we go again, leave the Portuguese official investigation documentation to gather more dust whilst focus gravitates towards social media.

Rule No. 1 - Don't believe anything you read across social media without cross checking and cross checking again again and again - you will almost certainly not locate an official source.

IF another written version of a timeline was found amongst Kate McCann's papers it would be in the PJ Files, just like every over timeline. On that point alone, the rumour has it said timeline was found within days of Madeleine McCann's reported disappearance .... papers?!? She was on holiday for crying out loud, what papers would she have apart from a month old edition of the Snaily Wail?



https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t17167-4th-tapas-draft-timeline-discovered-in-kate-mccann-s-possession#442193

More credence to the sardine munching beer swilling botched bungled Portuguese official investigation.

some even talk about 5 timelines, but i still have not seen a complete copy of that 4th.

but besides these their own statements are also a timeline, al least we can use these, for the tapas 7 the rogatories do deliver information. the book is usable, but only to get to a result they have been not very eager to get the truth out at all. 

after redwood rewritten timeline and matt was no longer on tour of duties that night, we at least may conclude all signs in other statement to put matt in around 21.30 are also not correct information. 

and for me all these words makes it al least a lot more likely , they had no pro assistance until the case became known after the phone call to the gnr. 

peter, isn't that third timeline the result of the mingling of that first 'detective kind of agency' control risk, they handed a wacky story as they concluded it had happen. all the pj had to do was sign it of.

it is down under the early pj analysis of all timelines known at the time, in this link.

https://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANALYSIS-SEP-07.htm

The McCann's had gone on holiday, they didn't go on holiday to kill Madeleine, they could easily have done that at home.
I believe Madeleine was a much loved and wanted Daughter.
What they did after Madeleine had an accident was to cover their own backs,
I will never believe they could act as if all was normal for that length of time knowing Madeleine was dead.

Matters are presented for consideration, if an individual thinks a particular aspect plausible they will mull it over or store in the sub-conscience for future reference.

Then along comes another theory and another and another and another, all dealt with in the same way individually.  

Over a long period of time all the theories are completely blown out of proportion, amassed to form a mammoth conspiracy theory with little or no evidence to substantiate, apart from an over imaginative mind or groupings to develop mischief - intentionally or deliberate matters not, the effect is the same.

Then one day the observer/participant starts to realise they have been dragged into a labyrinth of deception - brainwashed if you like, they realise how preposterous the whole presented concept has become.  

Then and only then they start to rebel against the prevailing conspiracy theory which in turn can be interpreted as hypocrisy but hypocrisy it is not - think of it more as an awakening, clearing the mind of all the debris collected along the way and stored in the sub-conscience for future consideration.

Always a good idea to keep a clear head, thus eliminating the possibility of being swept away by pressure and/or volume.

DCI Andy Redwood might call it a revelation.

As you say crusader, the notion the family took that holiday with murder a forethought is utterly ridiculous.

Back to basics, the family took a short break on the Algarve in late spring 2007 with a group of friends.  Kate McCann raised the alarm that her precious daughter Madeleine had disappeared from her bed around 22.00h on Thursday 3rd May 2007.

They are the evidenced facts presented by the official investigation conducted by the Portuguese Judiciary.  Work from there using only facts and evidence as the tool for study.

NOTE:  The Portuguese Judiciary is the leading force investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, not Germany nor the UK nor any other territory.

Addendum:  Members are advised to exercise extreme caution when sharing information privately - especially revealing an e-mail address, I speak from experience here.  Never forget, anyone met across the internet is an anonymity and can make-out to be anything or anyone they like.

Always ask yourself, why is this anonymity contacting me privately - why do they want to converse with me off the radar.

Look after yourselves - you know it makes sense.

i never have seen facts that would dictate it was a murder case, there are circumstances that can tell about a child that died. but i wil give the write up that would place everything happening on that one and only evening of may 3 2007. and yes there are bits that are a bit speculative and parts that are fully speculation. 

 but i made it long ago, because crusader, who does not know this write up was made at the time, ask why it could not simply has happened on thursday, i forgot the exact question. but just give it a go.
it is not written with compassion for the faint hearts.

i could do the same for each day after sunday, all would have use or more or less blancs, that i have to fill with sheer speculation. i am not a fan of speculation, because each different what if's just can make it another story, but i will give it a go for the thursday.

children do die, most from illnesses or accidents, for an illness or even a kind of poisoning, nothing ever showed for me into that. 
accidents do happen and most just ending up well even accidentally as accidents happen. so it is very likely all these children have been left alone for at least some time, how long is not really clear (1), madeleine was pretty small for a girl of nearly 4, her body normal til a leaner side. there are enough earlier pictures to see her as an active child. happy enough, pretty normal for her ages in pictures.

because of her height there was indeed thinkable that a unlucky fall of that sofa or that height could end up in fatal injuries, if you take the dog findings, as in alerts and what was found as a result from it, as in blood in grout and under the tiles it could fit with a fatal head injury, but most injuries of these kinds take a bit of time to end up dead. 
there is a but, a large study about falls in young under 5 uk children made clear children do not die that often or that easily of a fall, the height must be from higher up, as in at least as high as the child is. but tragic falls do happen and mostly because a fatal head injury  exists. 

there was always the question hanging about the dog alerts and the findings and how much time it could take to make dog alerts so much later possible. well for me that was a difficult question too, but the dogs both did alert near a spot that would agree with a fatal accident as a result of a fall from some height. 
children are known to climb on chairs, backrest and armrests of sofa's. 
if that sofa indeed had its original place a bit away from the windows and curtains behind it, it could have given enough space to fall behind it. there even was a sharp enough edged windowsill, that could be easily cleaned after an accident, but also is known as a hazard  around young children and heads. 

i have done a lot of baby sitting in my early years, and have also 4 much younger siblings, i always found it remarkable the children already put to bed and said sleeping, until the parents closed the door behind them, and in under a minute the gang was fully awake. not sleepy heads or suddenly waken at all, just full trottle young children. they always would be told who was minding then in that evening, but they used it as their entertainment to the full.

so it could from that experience be a accident just after the parents had left, because she was smal about a 90 cm tall. she could hardly have seen over the lower part of the patio walls outside. so lets speculate a bit more and she wanted to see out of 5a at the backside, to see where her parents did go. the sofa itself and the small table in the corner would be the only things easy to reach out to get enough heigt to take a look over the walls around the patio. the chairs of the dining table would be a bit to far and could be even a bit to heavy for her to bring nearer the window.

but such an event could have happened any time until about a 15 minutes before the first check would be made, if it was made and i think there was at least one check that evening. 

after doing a lot of reading up on again dog alerts and decomposition, i am satisfied time is no longer a factor for that, as in a body must have been present for a certain amount of time. even when a body was removed very quickly and i think it is most likely a body was in situ for at least 10 tot 15 minutes. fatal head injury comes with slowing down of bodily function and that takes some time. but there have been still left bodily relics behind in the form of blood, and eddy was fully trained on decomposing blood too, probably even more often used in his training, because it is easy to get. you do not need blood from a corpse to train a dog, blood wil perfectly decompose when it ends up outside a living body too. 

because of the porous nature of the grout between the hard baked style tiles of the floor it could be soaked up, head injuries often gave a lot of late secondary bleeding through ears, mouth and eyes, it is at least enough to form the kind of puddle you need to making it able to fill up the porous grout, it would have take enough blood, and some time to establish that. 

there could be enough left as residual blood and common maintenance of the floor would keep it even from to become to much dried out, what would stop decomposition of the blood. 

did it happen, i do not know that, but the possibilities and circumstances are available to make it all happen.

from this point on it get more speculative even. and i used mostly my interpretation of who the mccanns are as people and what i do know about them.

i think ik could be possible that the father found his just died daughter behind that blue sofa, a young professional, a son of thirst immigrants to the uk, who made it already to a doctor, had just set his first steps in building the good life, had found a well presentable house, had 3 young children, a competent enough wife, who also was wel educated. he would already have known he could make it into the academic world. 
he is also a proud man, into competition, in sports, in his work. has friends, did some work for the government. and just a silly accident could ruin that all, because the world would hear he left his 3 very young children alone, to wine and dine on a short holiday in the sun. he never ashowed to be a guy that could take a step back to see what would be best to do, all in him is just do something.

and i have seen many strong people complete lost the plot with less drastic events , than loosing a child. 

and yes, i can see in him as a person someone who just in an instant decide to take matters in his own hands. he is a doctor, he would have been able to see what damage resulted in the dead of the child, he would have from that have known he could no longer do anything for his daughter. 

i always find it remarkable how people could be able to make what ends up as a very stupid decision in so little time. and if he indeed realized no one could safe his child, i think he would be a kind of person that just would start doing things he thinks best. little eye beyond a moment in time. 

so yes i can see him as a person that decides to a quick clean up, hiding his daughters body in a large blue sports bag, cleaning the area of all visible traces. put that with his daughter in the bag, and placed it or behind the sofa, or in their bedroom. 

for him it could have been a moment, that being honest would not make anything better, his daughter is lost forever, his family life, his professional career, he could have thought he would loose that all, when the uk tabloids got the event in their fingers. 

even being catholic can play a role in it, i grey up in that world too for some years and dead is not that very important in itself, the afterlife is much more present in it. also if you look a bit back in his own family, his grandfather was besides owner of the pub in ireland , also the local undertaker, that too could have given a more distant feeling about being dead. 

all that he had to do was keeping up appearances until the next check, he met outside jez, and could have made use to furthermore calm himself. 

the next check would have been 21.30, and would be done by kate, but it feels only logic there never came a 21.30 check, because of how long gerry was gone, and seen outside but very near 5a, so 21.45 fits much better.

and there is reason enough from counter statements that the alarm was earlier than 22.00 hours, gerry made it even much later, by stating at 22.03 on his watch he notified kate it was time for het to do a check, no others have said anything about that exact timing or the noticing of kate.

it would resulted in kate not being able to find her daughter and the alarm got out.

it resulted in all except jane who still was in 5d, and diane who stayed at the table made a run to 5a, not one of the others got into 5a, per fiona her declarations, and all there left for at proximal 10 minutes to seach near 5a. 

when fiona came back kate was must more distraught even, and that could be simply because she just had heard her daughter died, and must be hidden because she otherwise would loose the twins too. my own impression is the behaviour kate has shown after the alarm was more likely to be expected as mourning, than a missing child that could be found. gerry had ample time to tell her some of it, before fiona got back, and probably he even was able during that time to bring the body out to a next resting stop. 
if you want to explain the smith sighting with it too.

it was not very important if the body was found by searchers, as long as it was away from 5a, it could probably explained as the result of an action of a third party. 

and all of that was not very criminal of course, hiding of a body of your own child, that is not so much a crime in itself, it makes little difference to the body itself where it is, and if that is all done by following guidelines, setting the scene of a break in and possible abduction, well as long no one ended up in court for it , it is not very criminal. it is mostly duping a public and the police, but it could easily be covered by how the father had seen his future. a third party without an identity, who only was there to fill a gap. 

when i look at kate as a person, i do not see a bad person. more someone who lost a lot and has no idea how to escape all that started to happen. i cannot see her as putting easily a mask on of nothing happened, not as easy as gerry does. and her behaviour after the alarm does fit far better for a mother who mourns her child. and how different do we expect such feelings between a lost daughter for short terms and for ever. 

and a lot kate spoke out never sounded as a lie to me. she gets very angry when people start with you have killed your kid, she never accepted that, all times someone tried to say to her you killed your kid, she get out with things to say like;

i know it did happen under different circumstances, i know , i was there. 

and for a catholic life does not stop, only this life can stop, but you are supposed to live forever in an afterlife, so even keep going telling she is still alive, is not much to call out as a lie. it also explains maybe the asking for a priest. the prayers for the ones who died are not that different for the ones that are of a unknown faith.

they had the early hours of may 4, some hours to go back to the place gerry left the body, to say their good byes, to understand no one would have been able to save her, even if they had standing next to her, this could have been the same result. doctors can phantom that much easier or better earlier than most others.
they even could find a place for the next part of the travels the body had to make.

but also the story of the abducted child could be as good as an excuse to mourn for her. 

i always have a problem to see a kate being able to hide her feeling for longer time, to play the happy nothing is wrong in my world i am on a holiday and that means fun. also she already lost one, she would do anything to keep the others. 

most searches had no true training at all, for looking for a lost young girl, and most would have put out of their mind they could find only a body, most would have looked for places a living child could reach, so fenced of properties would escape all eyes, most heights would escape eyesight. most already had a day of activities behind them. and had it mattered if the body was found, if you remember how avid they already had been with pointing fingers on the unknown party. 

with a little help of the friends they could make the outlook of that evening as 'normal' as possible, they talked all they did into the responsible parent thing. they only had to say, you did the same stupid thing and are only lucky. it was a unknown territoria, they had no idea what the law would mingle in for all. 

there are hiding places enough, maybe the smith sighting has nothing to do in it all, was the body hidden somewhere in block 5a, there was a lift in block 5, so also a maintenance area, and a blue bag is easy to hide where it is a very common sight. roofs are always overlooked. mark harrison did the math and 50 x 50 cm would be enough to hide a body of these measurements. 

the idea they all had been out there alone is not correct, masses of other people owns properties in that area. gerry had a massive network, al they needed was property offered to them by some other who they know, who would not have to be there, to be used to get their rest or for use when family would fly in. 
what if a brother or sister of gerry had known people who had property there and just decide to arrange the use, they had not to ask if they could hide a body in the fridge for some time, only accept it for a reason they could think of. 

it is still all speculation, i did use the things that are out there, do i have an idea if it al happened in this way, no i have not. but it could have been a way that could be possible, does not need even more than one person to start it all, and after that two. the friends and family could have sniffed out a lot during all that happened after. but it is remarkable what is seen often as accepted in families when bad things happen. 

and if it all started with a child that never could have survived after an freak accident, something the others could understood would not have any different outcome, not even when both parents are doctors, and these same people do know them good enough to have the trust nothing bad from their side has happen, just keep going on would be much easier.  

and if this is a bit near what has happened, it means they did not escape a bad media, at least for a bit of time, they kept the twins, gerry his career did go ahead even better as planned, they still have their home and their freedom. 

only some germans are stepping out of line, but would they have much bad feelings if cb is indeed a very bad apple and  get the tar and fethers, for me he is a too bad apple already for a long time, i do not need 5 extra cases to fiddle that out. i do care about justice, but not so much about figures as cb, or his companions of choice. but there are so many more they own excuses if such a line of events is all the story that is there to be. 

i can not prove most of it, i only did give myself the task to see if i could think of a plausible story, that stayed as much near what is become to be known. where i use i think it is my opinion used for the sake of the write up.

and verdi, i can understand it, if and when you decide to put it in the topic about non restricted theorizing stuff.

@crusader #230 wrote:
What are the efforts they used to create false sightings?


I was referring to all the 'Possible Abductors' sightings.
Tannerman now Totman
Smithman still undecided on that one personally
Rastaman now Sperry
Woman in Purple being either Jane Tanner / Luisa Todorov


Etc


If the Mccann's had really planned anything in Advance of going on Holiday, they would have done a better job, or?


But as we saw this week with the 'Apology' Story, they are catching themselves.


Constantly.

onehand wrote:and verdi, i can understand it, if and when you decide to put it in the topic about non restricted theorizing stuff.

Not at all, it can stay right here.

Well reasoned food for thought as always.

If it wasn't Madeleine at high tea on Thursday, then who was it.
On Thursday afternoon there were only 4 children at creche, 2 boy's and 2 girls.
Alexander Mann and William Totman, Madeleine and Ella O'Brien, Ella was picked up by her father at 4-30, signed out by Cat nanny.
So 3 children left in creche for Cat to look after, 2 boy's and a girl, Madeleine.
It must have been Madeleine who was alive and well on Thursday at 5-30 at the high tea.

and even the two boys did not take part in the high tea. anyone would remember a early night, because your work was over, no madeleine, means no reason for cat to stay on.

@crusader #239 wrote:
If it wasn't Madeleine at high tea on Thursday, then who was it.


I can only think of two possible explanations.


1. Either all the people who claim to have seen her are mistaken. 
2. Someone played the part of the real Madeleine.

There could have been a stand in willing to be called Madeleine all week, but untill we have concrete proof, I say it was Madeleine.

I have always wondered if Murat was approached by unseen Forces because he had a simular aged female child? 

Only when she was not available did they need him as a PJ Spy.

why would a pro team behind it all, goes so far, when this is absolutely not needed. it is very easy to pull a family out of a situation. it would not be the first time too.

i already said before, arrange a family crisis, or a job crisis, that is not very hard, both are doctors, just an unknown vip, that never exists of course, that had need of gm and send in the nice black car, with assistance of some nice blue lightnings of portuguese police, and let then get a accident that never happened for real, and one child dies, easy to arrange in the uk. 

give it a lot of commotion and busy people in the ocean club and no one would see really something. 

why play it all out by doing a lot of stuff, to fake a child, or put a substitute in. with the fat chance someone smells a rat, and would be certain there was indeed a rat when that child that looked a bit different to you, is exactly the one who got abducted. all you need is just one child or adult that is to hang you. 

substitutes and playing the fake not there impression is really for the amateurs. nice in the movies, not in a real live setting. yes , the majority of people hardly does look at the face of a child, if it is not their child, or another they have responsibilities too, it is just a child, just a girl. the 10 blonds of bridget on the tennis courts- effect.

most people not even use the face to recognize others, they use how they move, and that is something that you can not easily fake in just another, looks enough substitute of that same age. 
could you risk other children telling their parent(s), that madeleine was a very odd child, she even forgot who you was. 

faking the creche records itself is quite easy, because the adults around it would just go by the adult they already know.

there are things of with the statements of cat the nannie, try the boat adventure for yourself. certainly with such adventures near water, the guidelines would be, there always had to be a responsible adult with the children, no matter if they are on the beach, in the transport boat with steve or on the boat with alice. 

and i can see cat used the second trip for madeleine without the crying episode to make it sounding natural, but it cannot happened in that manner if cat was a responsible nannie that day. she would not have left other children alone on the beach. and to let her story happen, she must have. 

and i would believe it easily if cat was not even there for the full afternoon, only she had no official leave arranged, but just with other nannies around. 

such things do happen, and could be one of many that are not part of this case, but is just a side line. 
the common life was just going on as always.

and of course the ocean club and mark warner bosses have given instructions to the staff in how to behave in statements. they already had been lucky nothing did go wrong during their watch. and only the pennington fairy had gone for the lime light, multiple times. it is the only person, who talked herself into it all as witness to include murat and cb both, and is probably still on speed dial to put some oil on a fire. like the anti-rape whistle story. 

the reason why cat could have as said by her mother a mental break down, could be from assisting in letting madeleine be part of the week of creche activities when it did not happen, but it could been only because she was simply not there that last afternoon, to know if madeleine was at high tea or not. if that was a lie, to just protect herself, it would some hard thing to live with when the first fingers gone pointed at the mccanns themselves. with both situations she would made herself part of a possible crime. 

and this is what i mean that with what is known, and that consists of very little facts that could be connected if a crime has indeed happened, you could easily make a write up for each day after sunday. 

the problem that stands is there goes a lot of work in it, to cover it all up, fat to many people who become part of a crime, because a lot can never be arranges without knowledge something is very fishy. 

what could have solved a lot would be if the counter statement not only have been made from the staff, but also from all people who take part in all activities. like the parents of all children that take part in a creche above the main reception, all parents who's child did take part in the high tea. 

not one of that group had made a statement about that, and none had come out in the media to seriously state how they experienced that part of their week. only some strange stories, who ended up to be almost fully faked like the vicky boyd stories. 

and it is strange the pj did not used these people, and the uk boots did not give an advice to do just that. 
so the result is all about the creche is only half a story of the staff and some, but still as marginal as they could keep it from the tapas 9. 

and that is missing on more points, outsider counter statements. it is okay to let the staff tell how the procedures work, but that can be a very cleaned up story, that suits their employment, but there is nothing that tells about how that happened in real life experience. the tapas 9 had already their own ground to cover, i would have wanted the outsiders version too. it is all kept a bit to small to much fixation on only madeleine, it just does not paint the full picture.

As I've said many times in the past, the holiday brochure might paint a pretty picture but the reality of any holiday environment is quite ugly.

The seasonal staff are there for only one purpose - sun sea sex and sangria, there are no exceptions, you will never find a good hard working studious type working in a holiday complex and the fixed staff that interact with the happy campers aren't much better.

Add to that in fairness, holiday makers come and go throughout the season, mostly staying for only one or two weeks - unless they be regular visitors to the same establishment the staff are very unlikely to recognize one person from another, unless there's a sexual attraction or they tip well. Don't expect a set in stone witness statement from a member of staff - nor indeed other holidaymakers, they can only be viewed as intelligence to assist a police investigation.

Any records kept by a holiday resort, in relation to the movement and bookings of guests, are an informal arrangement with management stipulated requirements acknowledged but otherwise somewhat slapdash. It's not until the muck hits the fan that everyone jumps to attention to cover their own backs. I'm not saying the seasonal staff are not attentive to the guests wishes but they are in it for themselves - if there's a scam up for grabs they are quick to find it.

What goes on behind the scenes is an eye opener.

Please note:

From the same source...



As previously highlighted, the blogspot SOS Madeleine, as mentioned in the commentary, was hosted by a freelance journalist Duarte Levy, who for quite a while had a close liaison with another freelance journalist by the name of Paulo Reis.

This is not moving forward, it's moving backwards - raking up old news.

The child daycare sheets are a shambles but in retrospect what would you expect, the system was provided to register times of coming and going and the whereabouts of the parent/s in case of emergency, of course the staff would relax the rules - all the necessary information appears to be intact.

An informal approach administered by a low key holiday resort employing seasonal staff - not military precision you would expect from a regimental establishment.

SOS Madeleine is a French language Blog from Belgium.

Nothing to do with Duarte Levy or Paulo Reis.

Source: https://sosmm.frenchboard.com/

Paulo Reis actually wrote confirming this.

Source:
https://www.anorak.co.uk/175175/reviews/sos-madeleine-mccann-toscano-and-el-frances.html

Duarte Levy is a freelance Belgian journalist, his platform was SOS Madeleine.

Your 'sources' are totally irrelevant, they don't even support your claim.

Seriously you are a joke .

I just hope the 1,060 recipients of your private messages eventually grow to realise.

Now go away and stop wasting my time - and their time.

Paulo Reis apologised for allowing himself to be misled by Levy, who used SOS Madeleine as his Platform, but did not own it as far as I know.

I am still not certain whether Duarte was following his own Agenda, or acting on someone else’s Instructions.

Source:
https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Nigel/id71.htm