Re: The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo?

by Verdi 14.07.16 0:06

Roxyroo wrote:I just didn't want to be the one who actually said it aloud! Hairs too long and the jogging bottoms look so long she might trip over them. But you see as the mother of a child with poor mobility I always look out for these things subconsciously so wasn't sure if it was my own bias or not....

Rest assured - you ain't the only one who's noticed.

by kaz 14.07.16 20:05

I don't think I've ever seen a photo of Kate McCann not wearing the full Macslap...............................her make up bag must be bulging at the seams with lipstick, blusher, mascara, the works so what puzzles me about the happy ( not ! ) made up face of Madeleine's is the lack of messy bright lipstick and clownish blushered cheeks. That's the sort of 'fun' kids get up to when they're let loose on mummy's cosmetic bag. Isn't it?

by Nina 14.07.16 20:20

kaz wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a photo of Kate McCann not wearing the full Macslap...............................her make up bag must be bulging at the seams with lipstick, blusher, mascara, the works so what puzzles me about the happy ( not ! ) made up face of Madeleine's is the lack of messy bright lipstick and clownish blushered cheeks. That's the sort of 'fun' kids get up to when they're let loose on mummy's cosmetic bag. Isn't it?

Exactly Kaz, and they laugh cheekily because they are having so much fun.

by Verdi 15.07.16 20:56

kaz wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a photo of Kate McCann not wearing the full Macslap...............................her make up bag must be bulging at the seams with lipstick, blusher, mascara, the works so what puzzles me about the happy ( not ! ) made up face of Madeleine's is the lack of messy bright lipstick and clownish blushered cheeks. That's the sort of 'fun' kids get up to when they're let loose on mummy's cosmetic bag. Isn't it?

Whist tottering around on size 5 heels? Don't think Kate McCann's jesus creepers quite cuts the mustard.

by **Tony Bennett** 08.11.16 0:42

Verdi wrote:
kaz wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a photo of Kate McCann not wearing the full Macslap...her make up bag must be bulging at the seams with lipstick, blusher, mascara, the works so what puzzles me about the happy ( not ! ) made up face of Madeleine's is the lack of messy bright lipstick and clownish blushered cheeks. That's the sort of 'fun' kids get up to when they're let loose on mummy's cosmetic bag. Isn't it?
Whist tottering around on size 5 heels? Don't think Kate McCann's jesus creepers quite cuts the mustard.

This thread attracted a lot of discussion but there have been no further comments since 15 July.

The reason for reviving the thread is that I have just re-visited this thread:   https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1912-60-reasons-why-the-mccanns-should-never-have-published-that-photo - which was about the controversial 'Make Up Photo'. I never really noticed these two partocular observations at the time. But, looking back, it seems that these two commenters (who posted comments on a Daily Mail article about the Jon Corner video) were very observant:

1    “I'm looking at her hair. The fringe is kind of grown out and comes to beneath her eyes, just like in "The Last Photo" – the one of Maddie by the pool with Gerry and Amelie. If you look at pictures of her a few weeks before, in Donegal, her fringe isn't that long. If it was taken before the holiday, it must have been JUST before IMO.”

2    “Still do not understand the purpose of the photo with the blue eyeshadow .Anybody noticed that on this said photo, the right side of the background seems to show the same wall than the wall in the new released video. Right in the beginning the video shows Praia de Luz and one can see wall very similar to the photo. So was the photo taken while on holiday? Is the photo meant to remember somebody who was there, when the photo was taken?”

If indeed the 'Last Photo' was taken on the Sunday, then IMO what these two commenters said six years ago is very concerning

by Guest 08.11.16 1:34

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 Makeup11

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 Makeup10

Sat on this for the longest time. Info has been passed on where it should be. Since I heard nothing back but echo I'm posting just the image for feedback.

by **Tony Bennett** 08.11.16 8:48

April28th wrote:

Sat on this for the longest time. Info has been passed on where it should be. Since I heard nothing back but echo I'm posting just the image for feedback.

Thank you @ April 28th.

I think it would be helpful if you could further clarify your post, please.

Specifically, looking at the map and then at the photo, are you saying:

A. That the photo is of the apartment shown on the map as 'Club Cottage No 5'? and
B. If so, that you can definitely say that that this is where the Make-Up Photo was taken?

For myself, I see similarities between the two locations, but I cannot go so far as to suggest they are one and the same.

I add that the colour of the stucco on both photos does look remarkably similar.

The comments of those people on my post immediately above AND your photo reinforce my conviction that this hugely controversial Make Up Photo WAS taken in Praia da Luz and therefore provides valuable forensic evidence about what really happened to Madeleine.

It is worth looking again at the forthright comments made by so many people about the Make-Up Photo, which so many people called a 'Lolita' photo, after Vladimir Nabokov's novel of the same name:

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1912-60-reasons-why-the-mccanns-should-never-have-published-that-photo

by Roxyroo 08.11.16 9:04

Sorry but the two walls do not look the same to me same colour at top but bottom half is white

by Doug D 08.11.16 9:37

I suspect that the wall of the club cottage is white but that the colour comes through from the sun blind.

by Guest 08.11.16 13:37

Doug D
I suspect that the wall of the club cottage is white but that the colour comes through from the sun blind.

Yes. As such the colour coverage varies depending on the time of day (apartment 1 in the same row actually has the same kind of blind). Speculation about its content aside, I believe the makeup photo to be the true 'last photo'.

Note also that is a recent image taken from Google Street View, so the hanging plant may not have been there in 2007 (just the bracket).

A lot of things have to be pulled together for this, I will try and lay out some of them here, without going too off topic.

In Gerry's May 10th statement, a lot of new details are added. The specificity about the Millenium Restaurant is important;

----- They arrived at the destination between 18h50 and 19h00 having set themselves up at a large table where they all ate dinner, including the children who were seated between the adults, never leaving the place except for one of the twins who went to the bathroom with the deponent. About an hour later they finished dinner returning, again on foot by the same route, though going wrong in one of the streets where they should have turned left, ending up only turning at the next street. He adds that, as they were all very tired they went directly to the apartment arriving at 20h10/20h15, the route back having been slightly faster given that the twins were carried all the way.

The only way they could go wrong is by not taking the left turn passing Casa Liliana, as this rough image shows;

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 5atomi11

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 5atomi11

(sorry for rough image, I made it quickly to show the route)

Said route (blue) would not be 'quicker'.

We are being asked to take in a few things with this;
- That they may have been seen carrying the twins 'with haste' on that night (no Madeleine?)
- That they 'went the wrong way' despite having previously made the trip with no issues
- That this was the only night everyone dined with their children
- That they may have been seen approaching their complex from the direction of the M537-1 rather than Mill (perhaps having being dropped off at the crossroads?)

----- In the apartment they bathed the children and gave them a glass of milk putting them down at exactly 20h45, remembering that time because it was exactly one hour later than their usual bedtime. After putting down the children the deponent and his wife took a bath then settled down in the lounge to watch television. He points out that at the moment they arrived at the residence DP invited them to go for a glass of wine after putting down the children but they turned down the offer as they were extremely tired. He thinks that nobody left their apartments on the first night. Asked, he said that in England, when not on holiday, he and his wife would go to bed at 22h30/23h00, the twins at 19h00 and MADELEINE at 19H30.

Nowhere has it ever been stated that the children usually went to bed at 1945, in fact he contradicts this in the last sentence - this given time in itself is a red flag.

David Payne is used to alibi their arrival; why? Could this be related to the absence of his second interview in the files?

How can, or why would, Gerry say with any surety that the rest of the group 'stayed in after they got in'?

----- The following day (Sunday) the children woke up at 08h00, he and his wife having woken up at 07h30. They dressed and about 08h40 left the apartment going to the MILLENIUM restaurant, once more on foot and by the same route as the previous night, but without the mistake referred to previously, arriving there at 08h45/09h00. The group did not all arrive at the same time, rather in a phased manner, because they were not all seated at the same table.

Despite the supposed reservations about distance, they still have breakfast at the Mill.

The assertion that they 'did not repeat their mistake' makes no sense because the mistake was made on the return journey, not on the way there. So verifying this 'mistaken route' seems to be important - why?

None of Madeleine's DNA was ever found in 5A, and while there were several hairs which could not garner a profile, the only sample on 'Madeleine's' bed which could be attributed (one of only four hairs) was Kate's. So, did Madeleine in fact spend that night in the Club phase area, rejoining her family at breakfast?

It's well documented that every night one parent was absent from dinner, Matt even tells us that he absents himself from the Mill this night and subsequently spends most of the next day (30th) alone in his apartment. This 'intestinal problem' seems to make its way through the group (minus the McCanns), despite DOCTOR Oldfield having attributed it to 'bad airplane food'.

It's also documented forensically that while forensic traces of the 3 year old Gordon child who had stayed in 5A the week before the McCanns left many samples, not one was left by Madeleine (though it is possible some of the unattributed hairs could belong to the McCann children, so we can't empirically state they weren't there). The twins had no bedding in their cots on the night of the 3rd.

There are three tennis courts at the Mill, including two with an elevated lawn behind them - offering the same vantage for a photo as the Tapas courts. The 'tennis photo' could've been taken after a knockabout at/after breakfast on the Sunday. There are no tennis 'sessions' listed at weekends.

There's an interesting note from Russell's statement when describing why they agreed on Tapas instead of Millennium from then onwards;

The deponent furthers that the daughters of David and Fiona Payne are very agitated, and that they preferred to be the closest possible to the apartment.

Why are the Payne children singled out exclusively by Russell? Why should they be agitated after the first night - did they (or more likely just L) also spend that evening away from their parents?

Also, there were staff at the Mill who claimed to have seen the family regularly at breakfast. This has understandably been viewed as a mistake to this point, but assuming something happened to Madeleine on the 29th/30th in the club phase apartment, if Madeleine was staying there rather than in 5A, Gerry's 'creche shortcut' starts to make sense, either because it alibis noone having seen him taking Madeleine, or it alibis him having been seen from an odd direction. And their presence in the Mill makes more sense if they were also collecting Madeleine.

There are oddities in other guest movements in the Club Phase area, eg. the Gorrods arriving in Portugal on the 28th but not checking into their Club apartment until the 30th (Jane alibis them on that day - incidentally their place is opposite Apartment 5), Neema Balva Patel leaving early (on the 2nd rather than the 3rd) etc.

Aware I'm approaching tl;dr territory at this point so I will leave it at that for this post. I had written more but lost half my post when I clicked 'preview'

by worriedmum 08.11.16 17:59

just an aiside, but I'm surprised that one of the twins is taken to the bathroom-I thought they wore nappies?

by Verdi 08.11.16 21:00

@April28th

Don't know if I'm being more than usually idiotic but I'm really struggling to make any sense of this latest theory of yours. Forgive me if I've missed something, I don't think so because you say you have been sitting on this for a long time - at this stage I won't question who this has been sent to, I presume you have your reasons for not revealing.

In simple terms would you be so good as to explain a) where all this information comes from b) what makes you think the make-up photograph is the actual last photograph of Madeleine and more importantly c) what makes you think that Madeleine McCann or any of the other children were not in the allocated accommodation provided by Warner holidays at any given time during the week but instead at some other location. Not forgetting to mention why you think they might have been housed elsewhere. I frankly can't see any rationale in your extensive theorizing.

I also take the opportunity to say, from my understanding David Payne was only formally interviewed by the PJ on Friday 4th May 2007, as also applied to Kate McCann and Fiona Payne, if I remember rightly. I can't check the facts because mccannfiles is no more and I haven't yet fathomed Pamalam's redaction. This in my opinion is an important factor in it's own right but not because, as you claim, a second witness statement wasn't included in the published PJ files for the simple reason, it didn't exist. I could of course be wrong on this but I don't think so because it's a matter that's been niggling for a very long time. Somewhere along the way I recall reading that Kate McCann couldn't be formally re-interviewed as she was said to have been too traumatized - I don't feel that same excuse can be applied to David and Fiona Payne.

by Grande Finale 09.11.16 2:21

This is a picture with the sun shade in, from Aug 09 it is pure white as are all of the properties
around it, so make up photo definitely not taken at this location.

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 PDL05_zpsoaibjukb

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 PDL05_zpsoaibjukb

by Grande Finale 09.11.16 2:37

The "make up" photo was said to have been taken on "A family holiday" so doubtful it was the PDL holiday or I think they would have said ? I think it was most likely taken on holiday the year before in 2006 there is another photograph with the twins on GM's knee where he is wearing a blue tshirt which matches the blue in the "makeup" photo. Maddies appearance is also very similiar IMO

Have the Sol e mar apartments had a drastic makeover ?
If not it couldn't have been taken there either

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 Sol%20e%20mar_zpsijsv0x1b

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 Sol%20e%20mar_zpsijsv0x1b

by Doug D 09.11.16 8:29

Grande Finale:

‘so make up photo definitely not taken at this location’

Not jumping either way, but the wall colouring comes from the canopy being out, with the colour coming through it, as in April 28^th’s picture above.

The white wall certainly does not ‘definitely’ exclude this as a location.

by **Tony Bennett** 09.11.16 10:30

Grande Finale wrote:The "Make Up" photo was said to have been taken on "A family holiday" so doubtful it was the PDL holiday or I think they would have said? I think it was most likely taken on holiday the year before in 2006 there is another photograph with the twins on GM's knee where he is wearing a blue T-shirt which matches the blue in the "Make Up" photo. Maddie's appearance is also very similiar IMO

First of all, let us not get to hung up about whether or not the photo of the apartment that April 28^th has posted up is the actual apartment where the ‘Make Up Photo' was taken. Undoubtedly April 28^th has done a great deal of research on the issue, which is very commendable. I am not yet convinced - and I think it may have been taken somewhere else, nearby.

Second, I cannot agree that Madeleine looks like she does on a 2006 photo taken up to a year earlier. Many observers, like myself, see a striking similarity of facial features between how she looks on the Last Photo and on the Make Up Photo. Besides that, almost all observers so far have agreed that Madeleine’s hair and fringe look identical on both photos - in terms of style, length of fringe, colour of hair and so on.

In addition, it is clear that the Make Up Photo was taken against a background of pale yellow/ochre stucco. We find these types of walls throughout the Algarve region, but they are extremely rare in this country.

On top of all that there is the remarkable coincidence that on both photos, Madeleine is seen wearing a pink bow or bead - which is extremely rare, I can only find two other examples among hundreds of other photos of Madeleine. OK, they may not be the same bow, but on both occasions, she was being dressed up by an adult. She was clearly dressed up on the Last Photo, and further dressed up, ‘Lolita’-like, on the Make Up Photo – with a necklace, blue eyeshadow, and lipstick.

Now let me come to the statement that the McCanns themselves made about the Make Up Photo.

They said:

“It was taken on a family holiday”.

And I suggest that that is a statement that is at one and the same time both 100% true and yet wholly misleading.

If it was taken in Praia da Luz on that holiday, as more and more people now agree, the statement was absolutely factual.

Yet at the same time it was brilliantly misleading, leading people to think that they were referring to another, earlier holiday. It is the kind of ‘true-but-misleading’ statement that was surely crafted by a master media manipulator.

Indeed, I am thinking of another such statement made by Clarence Mitchell, uttered by him in the very same interview in which he gave this forum its name, when he said Madeleine’s disappearance was ‘A Complete Mystery’.

Challenged by a reporter as to whether Jane Tanner had identified Robert Murat as the abductor she claimed to have seen at 9.15pm on Thursday 3 May 2007, he hesitated a split second before replying:

“At no time did Jane Tanner name Robert Murat as the person he’d seen”.

100% true, but again, utterly misleading!

There is one other footnote I wish to add, which maybe we have forgotten.

And that is that we cannot assume that the McCanns and the McCann Team actually put out Jon Corner’s strange 2-minute video, from which the Make Up Photo and two other controversial posed photographs, the Floorboard Photo and the Ice Lolly Photo, were taken.

The video was put out by Jon Corner. He had access to these photographs in order to put them in his video. They were his choice. Over three previous years the McCans and the McCann Team had NOT released ANY of these three controversial photos.

I think we have to consider the possibility that this video was released WITHOUT the McCanns' permission. That is why, perhaps, the McCanns were clearly scrabbling for an explanation for the Make Up Photo, claiming that Madeleine was playing with her mother’s make-up box on a family holiday.

Which was patently untrue…

by JRP 09.11.16 11:44

The apartment in April28th's photo has a white wall as others have stated above. When the sun blind/canopy is extended it casts a shadow, but it is also causing an ochre colour cast.

If the "make up" photo was taken at this location, you would expect to see a similar colour casting, tinting, on Madeleine's skin tone and hair. Skin would absorb the tinting less dramatically than a white wall would, but evidence of tinting would be visible across the whole image and Madeleine's face would be slightly yellow/ochre in appearance.
I believe the stucco wall in the "make up" photo is ochre paint, rather than a yellow/ochre tinting or colour casting from an extended canopy.

I believe the "make up" photo belongs to the PdL holiday, taken somewhere around the time of the Last Photo, but not taken at the location suggested by April28th.

If the video was released without the Mc's consent, who supplied Jon Corner with this image?

by worriedmum 09.11.16 12:09

Can someone supply the source of the quote from the McCanns that says the photo was taken on holiday, please?

by sar 09.11.16 12:16

JRP wrote:The apartment in April28th's photo has a white wall as others have stated above. When the sun blind/canopy is extended it casts a shadow, but it is also causing an ochre colour cast.

If the "make up" photo was taken at this location, you would expect to see a similar colour casting, tinting, on Madeleine's skin tone and hair. Skin would absorb the tinting less dramatically than a white wall would, but evidence of tinting would be visible across the whole image and Madeleine's face would be slightly yellow/ochre in appearance.
I believe the stucco wall in the "make up" photo is ochre paint, rather than a yellow/ochre tinting or colour casting from an extended canopy.

I believe the "make up" photo belongs to the PdL holiday, taken somewhere around the time of the Last Photo, but not taken at the location suggested by April28th.

If the video was released without the Mc's consent, who supplied Jon Corner with this image?

As I understand it from the Jon Corner video in KM's words "...other cases of children been taken or killed or whatever....." Perhaps just a "throwaway" comment from a mother of a missing child being interviewed in carefree surroundings by someone she knows, perhaps something else.

by Verdi 09.11.16 12:29

Fifty shades of ochre stucco.

The make-up photograph could have been taken anywhere, apartment 5a Ocean Club for example..

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 Madeleine-mccann-899150907

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 Madeleine-mccann-899150907

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo? - Page 10 Epa01014356-gerry-mccann-r-father-of-madeleine-mccann-the-four-year-fjm0a7

The image is not clear so impossible, in my view, to determine a precise location from the background alone. The time of day/year the image was taken would alter wall surface colouration

by Verdi 09.11.16 12:36

Grande Finale wrote:This is a picture with the sun shade in, from Aug 09 it is pure white as are all of the properties
around it, so make up photo definitely not taken at this location.

I'm at a loss to understand why anyone would think the photograph was taken at this location.

by worriedmum 09.11.16 13:43

It does appear to be taken from below which might suggest someone standing below a balcony

by kaz 09.11.16 14:14

worriedmum wrote:It does appear to be taken from below which might suggest someone standing below a balcony

It's the angle of her head and the lack of expression on her little face that I find even more disconcerting than the carefully applied make up..........................but not that carefully applied that we don't get the little girl/ woman message. As a mother of three children ( now grown and flown ) who has literally hundreds of photos of the kids growing up I cannot understand the subtext of that photograph. Let me explain: I have photographs of Aria**** playing with the dogs, Geo***pulling faces and Ly*** paddling, splashing and just generally mucking about . Not always smiling, sometimes even scowling but ALWAYS with a telling expression on their faces AND in their body language. You get the idea. Each photograph telling a story of happy times to be remembered at a later moment when the photographs inevitably come out. It's pretty impossible to contrive these images. Kids and their faces just do their own thing. And there in a nutshell is the problem with the make up photograph. It's contrived. The face devoid of childlike expression , the angle of the head, the eyes , the demeanor that tells you nothing and mostly, the sheer lifelessness of it sends shivers down my spine.

by sandancer 09.11.16 18:40

I couldn't agree more kaz, what parent could look at that photo and not go cold ?
Compare this with the laughing little girl by the pool on the so called "last photo" . Under what circumstances was this "make up " one taken ? This is not the face of a child who has been playing with mummy's make up even if she got told off for doing it , if that was the case why take the picture ?
I don't know where and when it was taken , what bothers me is why and as I said under what circumstances ?
My heart breaks with the thought that Madeleine might have suffered that is why the good folk here and on other places continue to fight for truth and justice for her and for her brother and sister .
I will continue to do my little bit , spread the word and hope that Madeleine rests in peace.

by Verdi 09.11.16 20:56

Tony Bennett wrote:

The video was put out by Jon Corner. He had access to these photographs in order to put them in his video. They were his choice. Over three previous years the McCans and the McCann Team had NOT released ANY of these three controversial photos.

I think we have to consider the possibility that this video was released WITHOUT the McCanns' permission. That is why, perhaps, the McCanns were clearly scrabbling for an explanation for the Make Up Photo, claiming that Madeleine was playing with her mother’s make-up box on a family holiday.

Which was patently untrue…

There's always a possibility that Jon Corner deliberately used those particular provocative photographs to illustrate that 'certain quality' he saw in Madeleine.

The McCanns and their support network, right from the start, planted the abduction by paedophile hypothesis for the world's consumption. I can't literally count the number of times the word 'paedophile' features in 'madeleine' by KATE MCCANN but I will use this small selection by way of example....

I asked Gerry apprehensively if he’d had any really horrible thoughts or visions of Madeleine. He nodded. Haltingly, I told him about the awful pictures that scrolled through my head of her body, her perfect little genitals torn apart. Although I knew I had to share this burden, just raising the subject out loud to someone else, even Gerry, was excruciating. Admitting the existence of these images somehow confirmed them as a real possibility, and with that confirmation came renewed waves of fear....

Crying in bed again – can’t help it . . . The thought of Madeleine’s fear and pain tears me apart. The thought of paedophiles makes me want to rip my skin off. Surely these people along with psychopaths are not ‘normal’ human beings...

We faced our biggest fear: that Madeleine had been taken by a paedophile and killed....

Can’t stop thinking about Madeleine again – her fear and her pain. Dark thoughts have been creeping in a lot this week. How can I carry on, knowing that her life may have ended like this....
----------

Then there is Jim Gamble and the CEOP, brought in at the very earliest when there was no indication nor suggestion by the Portuguese investigative team of abduction by a paedophile gang.

In this day and age of progressive forensics and technology, there can be no guarantee that evidence of a missing persons body might be uncovered irrespective of how disposal was effected. The absolute disappearance of Madeleine McCann indicates that for some reason it's imperative her body is never found, dead or alive, if ever any physical evidence is uncovered it's likely it could reveal the reason for her 'absolute' disappearance. What better way of explanation can there be but to prepare in advance by spreading false stories about what could or might have been?

The Mystery of the Make-Up Photo - was it taken on the same day as the Last Photo?