"Fresh agony for the McCanns"

MayMuse wrote:

Verdi wrote:@Maymuse

As a matter of interest, why do you conceal your on-line presence on this forum?  I've been around here for quite a while now, I wouldn't know how - even if I wanted or had reason to.

Hi @ Verdi I wasnt aware that I was? 
You can view my posts, yes?

MayMuse wrote:

Verdi wrote:@Maymuse

As a matter of interest, why do you conceal your on-line presence on this forum?  I've been around here for quite a while now, I wouldn't know how - even if I wanted or had reason to.

Hi @ Verdi I wasnt aware that I was? 
You can view my posts, yes?

Verdi wrote:

MayMuse wrote:

Verdi wrote:@Maymuse

As a matter of interest, why do you conceal your on-line presence on this forum?  I've been around here for quite a while now, I wouldn't know how - even if I wanted or had reason to.

Hi @ Verdi I wasnt aware that I was? 
You can view my posts, yes?

No?  Curious.

Obviously - otherwise how would I know you're there?

Roidininki wrote:

MayMuse wrote:

Verdi wrote:@Maymuse

As a matter of interest, why do you conceal your on-line presence on this forum?  I've been around here for quite a while now, I wouldn't know how - even if I wanted or had reason to.

Hi @ Verdi I wasnt aware that I was? 
You can view my posts, yes?

Yes we know you're online because you're posting, just you don't have slogan by your name saying "online "

Roidininki wrote:

MayMuse wrote:

Verdi wrote:@Maymuse

As a matter of interest, why do you conceal your on-line presence on this forum?  I've been around here for quite a while now, I wouldn't know how - even if I wanted or had reason to.

Hi @ Verdi I wasnt aware that I was? 
You can view my posts, yes?

Yes we know you're online because you're posting, just you don't have slogan by your name saying "online "

Roidininki wrote:

whodunit wrote:

suzyjohnson wrote:whodunit, I just think KM and GM have got themselves on a treadmill they can't get off. To one extent or another their situation is of their own making, but I've never thought there was anything sinister about it, in terms of the Gaspar statements.

I'm not sure why anyone would dismiss these statements.  Drs. Gaspar had nothing whatsoever to gain by making these statments and potentially a lot to lose. Their statements are as credible as any other witness statements made in this case, and a darn sight moreso than many of them. Certainly what the Gaspars had to say is in no way strange or unbelievable within the context of a case of the missing corpse of a dead child, and for this reason I find no pretext for dismissing what they had to say. Just because it seems sensational and unlikely doesn't mean it is impossible.

The husband thought no more about it ,what he saw if you refresh yourself with his statement.

Verdi wrote:@whodunit wrote:  I do have some sympathy for KM. [Not Gerry though, never Gerry] To me she has the distinct feel of a woman who grew up in a certain type of abusive environment and likely thought it was 'normal'...

I can't see that at all.  You only have to witness some of those tell tale momentary expressions on her face during interviews to get the idea that she's not much better than her other half.  In it together in my opinion.  I do wonder however, why Gerry McCann is so willing to allow his wife to be the one under suspicion in the eyes of the police and public alike - unless it's a sympathy pleas of sorts.

whodunit wrote:

Roidininki wrote:

The husband thought no more about it ,what he saw if you refresh yourself with his statement.

Yes,  I made a note of it in another thread just recently. However, Mr. Dr. Gaspar did not deny the conversation Mrs. Dr. Gaspar recounted, nor did he deny the communal child bathing culture of the group, he merely sought to downplay their significance. What kind of person, much less a parent, shrugs off these kinds of attitudes and practices? His nonchalance does nothing to discredit Mrs. Gaspar's statement, it only raises questions about himself. 

It is worth noting that it was Mr. Dr. Gaspar who had the connection to the McCanns.

Bishop Brennan wrote:

suzyjohnson wrote:

If, for example, the McCanns had given Madeleine a sedative on the evening of May 3 rd, their intention would have been that she should sleep soundly whilst they dined out with their friends.

This is critical. Imagine the scenario if they had sedated her (not just Calpol!) :  

The McCanns return from their evening out - they find poor Madeleine on the floor. She has passed away.  The horror, panic, grief and shock would be immense.  This is not the time for arcane deliberations on the Portuguese laws of negligent homicide.   This is sheer emotion.  What will they do?  Poor Maddie is gone - there will be an autopsy.  Tests will also be run on the twins.  All 3 will show traces of sedative.

In that situation, the laws don't matter. Accident or manslaughter - totally irrelevant.  The McCanns (both doctors) will be struck off back home.  Guaranteed.   Social Services will almost certainly get involved in the UK and they might very well lose the twins.   Especially if there was a history of abandoning them on most nights of the holiday.   The last thing on their minds is whether they face charges in Portugal.  What they KNOW they face is the loss of their job, the loss of their income, and quite likely the loss of the twins.  All that on top of the devastating and sudden death of their lovely 3-year old daughter.

For all that you might think of the McCanns and how they have behaved, that night is a night that nobody would wish on their worst enemy.  They were plunged into hell, and had to make a decision.  If they truly did hide the body and construct the story, it's an incredible decision.  Which in turn is what has made the case so fascinating for everyone for 9 whole years.  An astonishing decision, but one they might well have made...


 

sami wrote:

Roidininki wrote:Thing is no sedating drugs were amongst the medications found ?

In the McCanns apartment only though.  I don't recall the other apartments being searched, nothing to say medication was not present in the other apartments.

Claire25 wrote:Also, Amaral said in the TV interview I think last year, the Gaspar statements had been withheld from the PJ and when they did arrive they were tagged on to the end of an unrelated (fax or email?) as though someone in the British police had wanted to sneak the info over to them as it wasn't getting there otherwise.  Obviously whoever in the British police force thought that it was something that the PJ needed to know.

whodunit wrote:

AFAIK nobody is accusing DP of being directly involved with what happened to MM, but the fact is nearly every piece of evidence in this case points to the McCs, both of them, covering up what happened to their child, and their group of friends having assisted them in this effort.

whodunit wrote:

suzyjohnson wrote:whodunit, I just think KM and GM have got themselves on a treadmill they can't get off. To one extent or another their situation is of their own making, but I've never thought there was anything sinister about it, in terms of the Gaspar statements.

I'm not sure why anyone would dismiss these statements.  Drs. Gaspar had nothing whatsoever to gain by making these statments and potentially a lot to lose. Their statements are as credible as any other witness statements made in this case, and a darn sight moreso than many of them. Certainly what the Gaspars had to say is in no way strange or unbelievable within the context of a case of the missing corpse of a dead child, and for this reason I find no pretext for dismissing what they had to say. Just because it seems sensational and unlikely doesn't mean it is impossible.

Carrry On Doctor wrote:

whodunit wrote:

Claire25 wrote:If it was a simply violent act though, I just cannot believe that the other Tapas members would have covered it up though.  Sorry, I do believe there's more to it.  Will have to agree to disagree.

Exactly.

 Without this context one can only have a partial or limited perspective. The McCanns were not isolated in their efforts to cover this up. The assistance they received must be taken into account when attempting to determine what possibly could have happened, and what probably did not happen. The help the McCs received in the cover up, not only from the Tapas but from the British diplomatic corps is unusual in the extreme. This help suggests something other than a simple accident, or even a murder involving only the McCs. The motive had to be very strong to induce the Tapas to assist in a cover up. Trying to help friends avoid responsibility for an accident OR a murder is simply not enough of a motive. Place yourself in the shoes of any one of the Tapas imagine one of your friends suddenly had to contend with a dead child. If they suggested a cover up to you, would you go along with it or would you immediately alert the police? What in God's green earth would be enough to induce you to go along with it? Think about it....

Regarding the cover up outwith the T9, it is important to consider why the OC was packed to capacity, out of season, with people of the wrong social demographic. What professional / moneyed people go to an average resort when the weather is typically cold. Answer: Those attending an organised sex holiday.

Totally agree with the arguments being put forward about the reasons for avoiding an autopsy, and protection of careers/reputations etc, but the bigger picture seems to be that many people, staying at the OC and nearby, have something to hide.

As for direct Government intervention (the high level cover up), as I posted on another thread a few days ago, the Craig Murray interview suggests that Blair et al seized a golden opportunity to be seen to help help a very British family in apparent crisis, despite the warnings from John Buck, the FCO man on the ground. A political point scoring stunt that OG (assuming their intentions be honourable) have now debunked and are awaiting guidance on. As BHH confirmed last week on the day of the Hillsborough verdict, the PM is now personally intervening in the case, such is its sensitivity.

Meanwhile, GA tools up for the final assault. If/when the truth is revealed, there will be many with egg on their face.