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Was Madeleine seen after Sunday? - Page 23 Mm11

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Was Madeleine seen after Sunday?

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Post by Mainline on 13.03.19 0:16

"Guesswork"

Have you gone to the lengths of contacting publishers Guerra e Paz? Several of us did. If you're unaware of such efforts then I encourage you to redouble and contact them yourself.

Goncalo Amaral was not a top detective for sticking to one theory with an obsequious bent. Demonstrably from his own words, he never had a one track mind. I don't pretend to know what his current opinion is - whatever it is will be vastly more informed than my own. But I do recognise that a senior detective, even after leaving his employ, does not live in an echo chamber. Not one person among us can speak for him, aside from Paulo who actually (regularly) assorts with Dr Amaral.
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Post by Guest on 13.03.19 0:55

@Mainline wrote:"Guesswork"

Have you gone to the lengths of contacting publishers Guerra e Paz? Several of us did. If you're unaware of such efforts then I encourage you to redouble and contact them yourself.

Goncalo Amaral was not a top detective for sticking to one theory with an obsequious bent. Demonstrably from his own words, he never had a one track mind. I don't pretend to know what his current opinion is - whatever it is will be vastly more informed than my own. But I do recognise that a senior detective, even after leaving his employ, does not live in an echo chamber. Not one person among us can speak for him, aside from Paulo who actually (regularly) assorts with Dr Amaral.
So you don't know what his current opinion is, the question asked was who has information or evidence that he is not sticking by the Thursday death, do you have that per chance?
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Post by Mainline on 13.03.19 0:58

HKP wrote:
@Mainline wrote:"Guesswork"

Have you gone to the lengths of contacting publishers Guerra e Paz? Several of us did. If you're unaware of such efforts then I encourage you to redouble and contact them yourself.

Goncalo Amaral was not a top detective for sticking to one theory with an obsequious bent. Demonstrably from his own words, he never had a one track mind. I don't pretend to know what his current opinion is - whatever it is will be vastly more informed than my own. But I do recognise that a senior detective, even after leaving his employ, does not live in an echo chamber. Not one person among us can speak for him, aside from Paulo who actually (regularly) assorts with Dr Amaral.
So you don't know what his current opinion is, the question asked was who has information or evidence that he is not sticking by the Thursday death, do you have that per chance?

Noone knows how he currently thinks, or if they do, they can't step forward because for legal reasons he can't be blunt. Personally I have no idea, so in my case your question is inane and irrelevant (not saying that's your normal contribution, just in relation to me).
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Post by Guest on 13.03.19 1:00

@Jill Havern wrote:
HKP wrote:
@Jill Havern wrote:Indeed aquila, and why, when Dr Amaral finished writing his book two years ago, is he still waiting for the right time to publish it if was just going to be more of the same for which he's already been to court? Surely it's because he's got something more to add to his original book now that many years have passed?
All guesswork Jill, anything a bit more tangible than just what your thoughts are?
It's not guesswork actually.

Dr Amaral has received all our research as has Paulo Reis and the Portuguese Attorney-General and Operation Grange. I know Dr Amaral is in direct communication with Paulo Reis and PeterMac who, as we know, has researched this case and concluded that Madeleine died on the Sunday...as have others who have researched from various angles but reached the same conclusion.

Why is it so difficult for you all to assume Dr Amaral, who is highly intelligent, is still stuck in 2007 when the case has moved on significantly?
Or, why is it so difficult for you or anybody to provide some information that he has come to the conclusion she died earlier. Providing him with evidence/theories/information doesn't mean he accepts that this is the right answer
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Post by Guest on 13.03.19 1:03

@Mainline wrote:
HKP wrote:
@Mainline wrote:"Guesswork"

Have you gone to the lengths of contacting publishers Guerra e Paz? Several of us did. If you're unaware of such efforts then I encourage you to redouble and contact them yourself.

Goncalo Amaral was not a top detective for sticking to one theory with an obsequious bent. Demonstrably from his own words, he never had a one track mind. I don't pretend to know what his current opinion is - whatever it is will be vastly more informed than my own. But I do recognise that a senior detective, even after leaving his employ, does not live in an echo chamber. Not one person among us can speak for him, aside from Paulo who actually (regularly) assorts with Dr Amaral.
So you don't know what his current opinion is, the question asked was who has information or evidence that he is not sticking by the Thursday death, do you have that per chance?

Noone knows how he currently thinks, or if they do, they can't step forward because for legal reasons he can't be blunt. Personally I have no idea, so in my case your question is inane and irrelevant (not saying that's your normal contribution, just in relation to me).
Thank you for confirming you have no idea
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Post by Mainline on 13.03.19 1:07

HKP wrote:
@Mainline wrote:
HKP wrote:
@Mainline wrote:"Guesswork"

Have you gone to the lengths of contacting publishers Guerra e Paz? Several of us did. If you're unaware of such efforts then I encourage you to redouble and contact them yourself.

Goncalo Amaral was not a top detective for sticking to one theory with an obsequious bent. Demonstrably from his own words, he never had a one track mind. I don't pretend to know what his current opinion is - whatever it is will be vastly more informed than my own. But I do recognise that a senior detective, even after leaving his employ, does not live in an echo chamber. Not one person among us can speak for him, aside from Paulo who actually (regularly) assorts with Dr Amaral.
So you don't know what his current opinion is, the question asked was who has information or evidence that he is not sticking by the Thursday death, do you have that per chance?

Noone knows how he currently thinks, or if they do, they can't step forward because for legal reasons he can't be blunt. Personally I have no idea, so in my case your question is inane and irrelevant (not saying that's your normal contribution, just in relation to me).
Thank you for confirming you have no idea

Thanks for providing no semblance of rebuttal and proving my contributions are based on opinion not gang mentality  roses
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Post by Guest on 13.03.19 1:10

@Mainline wrote:
HKP wrote:
@Mainline wrote:
HKP wrote:
@Mainline wrote:"Guesswork"

Have you gone to the lengths of contacting publishers Guerra e Paz? Several of us did. If you're unaware of such efforts then I encourage you to redouble and contact them yourself.

Goncalo Amaral was not a top detective for sticking to one theory with an obsequious bent. Demonstrably from his own words, he never had a one track mind. I don't pretend to know what his current opinion is - whatever it is will be vastly more informed than my own. But I do recognise that a senior detective, even after leaving his employ, does not live in an echo chamber. Not one person among us can speak for him, aside from Paulo who actually (regularly) assorts with Dr Amaral.
So you don't know what his current opinion is, the question asked was who has information or evidence that he is not sticking by the Thursday death, do you have that per chance?

Noone knows how he currently thinks, or if they do, they can't step forward because for legal reasons he can't be blunt. Personally I have no idea, so in my case your question is inane and irrelevant (not saying that's your normal contribution, just in relation to me).
Thank you for confirming you have no idea

Thanks for providing no semblance of rebuttal and proving my contributions are based on opinion not gang mentality  roses
My pleasure
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Post by Dannz on 13.03.19 1:19

HKP wrote:On post #509 of this thread was a very good question which then raised an absurd retort but Pheobe's question remains, who was the (only) girl in the creche group on Thursday afternoon if it wasn't Maddie? 
 
HKP - I think JimbobJones’ point may perhaps have been that it is only assumed that there was a girl in the crèche at that time. The only evidence there was is crèche records, Catriona Baker and the McCanns. None of those are considered credible. Richard Hall suggests that Maddie was signed in but no one was actually dropped off. 

Phoebe’s other point was why remove other girls when it would only highlight Madeleine’s absence. The answer is perhaps that other parents would not notice and Cat and her supervisor were involved in the cover up.  Cat supposedly had a close relationship with the McCanns - they shared meals together (children’s. teas) and Cat was Facebook Friends since 2006 with the daughter of Madeleine’s godfather (and we don’t know how many others). 

Richard Hall tells us that the McCanns had lunch in their apartment to keep Madeleine’s absence concealed from the Tapas 7 - apparently up to 3 May. I get confused as to why the McCanns then included the T7 on 3 May rather than go for a simpler story of Madeleine being taken at the beach. In any event Cat Baker must have been more highly trusted than the T7. I’m not sure how many childrens’ teas the McCanns attended - was it only the one on the Sunday? However many, there was evidently very strong bonding. I’m not sure how the supervisor fits in, or if Cat without any girl attended the tea on Thursday. However, if following this theory, IMO it is likely that the other childminders were part of it too as they might have said something otherwise. Ms Romao and others would also need to be included as it would be a risk that they might also notice. 

So there was no little girl in the crèche group on Thursday. There was no need as all relevant people were part of it (except the T7 until Thursday after lunch).  Does that make it clearer?
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Post by Phoebe on 13.03.19 2:00

Where I run into problems with death on Sunday is when I consider the enormous unnecessary risks the whole group would have to have been running in trying to pretend Madeleine was there all week when she wasn't.
 I can't believe ALL the nannies, tennis coaches and sailing coaches could have been party to this deception. All it would have taken was any of these to ask the children their names so they could address them by name - in a game or coaching session say - and the game would have been up!!
 I also cannot believe the Tapas 9 could have behaved normally, played tennis, gone to and from the creche, taken the children to the playground, breakfasted in the Millenium, dined each night, enjoyed socialising in the Tapas Bar etc. with sang froid, all the while knowing they were covering up such a crime.
I cannot understand why they took all the kids to the beach on the very afternoon of the day Madeleine was to go missing. They must have known that the police would home in on that last day and afternoon, yet they removed all their kids, leaving Madeleine supposedly alone in the creche. It just doesn't ring true to me, try as I may.
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Post by Guest on 13.03.19 9:53

@Dannz wrote:
HKP wrote:On post #509 of this thread was a very good question which then raised an absurd retort but Pheobe's question remains, who was the (only) girl in the creche group on Thursday afternoon if it wasn't Maddie? 
 
HKP - I think JimbobJones’ point may perhaps have been that it is only assumed that there was a girl in the crèche at that time. The only evidence there was is crèche records, Catriona Baker and the McCanns. None of those are considered credible. Richard Hall suggests that Maddie was signed in but no one was actually dropped off. 

Phoebe’s other point was why remove other girls when it would only highlight Madeleine’s absence. The answer is perhaps that other parents would not notice and Cat and her supervisor were involved in the cover up.  Cat supposedly had a close relationship with the McCanns - they shared meals together (children’s. teas) and Cat was Facebook Friends since 2006 with the daughter of Madeleine’s godfather (and we don’t know how many others). 

Richard Hall tells us that the McCanns had lunch in their apartment to keep Madeleine’s absence concealed from the Tapas 7 - apparently up to 3 May. I get confused as to why the McCanns then included the T7 on 3 May rather than go for a simpler story of Madeleine being taken at the beach. In any event Cat Baker must have been more highly trusted than the T7. I’m not sure how many childrens’ teas the McCanns attended - was it only the one on the Sunday? However many, there was evidently very strong bonding. I’m not sure how the supervisor fits in, or if Cat without any girl attended the tea on Thursday. However, if following this theory, IMO it is likely that the other childminders were part of it too as they might have said something otherwise. Ms Romao and others would also need to be included as it would be a risk that they might also notice. 

So there was no little girl in the crèche group on Thursday. There was no need as all relevant people were part of it (except the T7 until Thursday after lunch).  Does that make it clearer?
Thanks Dannz, I am aware of Richard D Hall's take on it and of the crèche records validity. Whilst the specific question was about Thursday the principle applies to every day past Sunday. With it being a holiday club with young 'nannies' who were there temporarily I don't think that it's to be unexpected that the records are not 100% accurate, you'd do it yourself if someone forgot to sign there child out but you had seen/spoken to them on their way out (sign them out). I'd at least expect them (nannies) to be aware of who was there and who was not, in particular those kids in your group. There are too many people saying Madeleine was around (from Sunday) for them all to be mistaken/lying/covering up. The investigation team at the time were comfortable with something happening on Thursday and also that some of the independent witnesses had seen her that week (after Sunday). The first port of call for the investigation is usually who outside the family/group (independent witness) saw her last then verifying that's a true and accurate fact. The PJ were not stupid, they rapidly worked out no abduction, Tannerman was false and the behaviours pointed to some sort of cover up. 



With a group of kids in your charge you need to know their names and you would call them by that on frequent occasions (or you may ask/reaffirm on several occasions), if you were wrong about their name they'll tell you! Being mixed up with another of the Tapas group's kids has to be a non starter (kids of that age in general run to their parents at pickup point). That leaves signing in but not attending, they'd be relying on people lying and taking that to their grave with them, not a risk to be taken lightly especially when it turns out to be the world's most famous missing person case (those in the know would have to be kept to the bare minimum).
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Post by Guest on 10.04.19 17:50

@Phoebe wrote:Where I run into problems with death on Sunday is when I consider the enormous unnecessary risks the whole group would have to have been running in trying to pretend Madeleine was there all week when she wasn't.
 I can't believe ALL the nannies, tennis coaches and sailing coaches could have been party to this deception. All it would have taken was any of these to ask the children their names so they could address them by name - in a game or coaching session say - and the game would have been up!!
 I also cannot believe the Tapas 9 could have behaved normally, played tennis, gone to and from the creche, taken the children to the playground, breakfasted in the Millenium, dined each night, enjoyed socialising in the Tapas Bar etc. with sang froid, all the while knowing they were covering up such a crime.
I cannot understand why they took all the kids to the beach on the very afternoon of the day Madeleine was to go missing. They must have known that the police would home in on that last day and afternoon, yet they removed all their kids, leaving Madeleine supposedly alone in the creche. It just doesn't ring true to me, try as I may.

I have the same problem. There are just too many unmanageables for that to have been possible let alone workable.  I've always felt that the night of Tuesday 1st (the night Mrs Fenn heard prolonged crying from 5A) was the night something happened and that the subterfuge began from that point.
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