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Reasons not to be so cheerful

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Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by Garrincha on 16.01.14 22:44

Sorry if this sounds negative but I’ve been wondering: if GA was removed by the PJ because of UK political pressure why would the PJ today be pursuing his thesis?

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by bobbin on 16.01.14 23:39

Garrincha wrote:Sorry if this sounds negative but I’ve been wondering: if GA was removed by the PJ because of UK political pressure why would the PJ today be pursuing his thesis?
Because the publicised PJ files stated firstly, what Goncalo Amaral has then, referred to in his book.
The PJ believed it to be true at the time, and they still hold by that.
Amaral being removed was a corrupt 'political intervention' and nothing to do with what the rest of the PJ thought or what the files showed as a conclusion of their investigation so far.

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by Woofer on 17.01.14 0:08

Garrincha wrote:Sorry if this sounds negative but I’ve been wondering: if GA was removed by the PJ because of UK political pressure why would the PJ today be pursuing his thesis?

The present PJ team in Porto started reviewing the case in March 2012 - I suppose this means they would have reviewed Goncalo Amaral`s and Rebelo`s investigation.  That review was headed by Helena Monteiro and I assume she would have continued to co-ordinate the re-opening of the current investigation which commenced a few months ago, but who knows if she is persuing any of the Amaral/Rebelo investigations.   The PJ never say much and the only thing I`m aware of is the leak that they were re-checking the guy that died (tractorman).  Does anyone know more than this?
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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by Mirage on 17.01.14 0:19

One factor to bear in mind is that Goncalo's book was  banned because of a ruling by an inexperienced judge. This was borne out by the ban being overturned at appeal which is an encouraging sign. The result of the libel trial, therefore, will be a further indicator as to which way the political wind is blowing.

The whole fiasco is the result of political interference from the outset and Goncalo Amaral has sent out that consistent message so that it has become the zeitgeist, making it a difficult stunt to pull for a second time. Of course, it remains to be seen if history repeats itself in that regard but I imagine it would be very difficult to replicate the political chicanery going on at that time. If a week is a long time in politics, the passage of 6.5 years will certainly have thrown up a completely new set of dynamics, political allegiances and a much changed cast of players.

In short, things have moved on. A concept  even KM should be able to grasp as she knows how Madeleine moved on from waking and crying.

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by Woofer on 17.01.14 0:36

Some of the Portuguese heirarchy could end up with egg on their faces when its acknowledged that GA was right along.  Fingers crossed Helena Monteiro cannot be bought off.
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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by marconi on 17.01.14 1:30

Garrincha wrote:Sorry if this sounds negative but I’ve been wondering: if GA was removed by the PJ because of UK political pressure why would the PJ today be pursuing his thesis?

Garrincha, that happened in 2007, during Brown's and Socrates' administrations. 
Amaral and the PJ always concluded the same but they were gagged.
They were victims of Brown and of the Murdoch concern.
Things have changed, the PJ can ccontinue their investigation

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by Garrincha on 17.01.14 10:01

Thanks for all replies.

 

to Woofer: my concern is that a fear of “egg on faces” may be what is holding back the UK authorities, and that the PJ may be reacting in the same way 

 

to Bobbin: my concern is that the PJ submitted to the political intervention back then, and may still be so inclined

 

to Mirage: I hope you’re right

 

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by Daisy on 17.01.14 12:16

Garrincha wrote:Thanks for all replies.

 

to Woofer: my concern is that a fear of “egg on faces” may be what is holding back the UK authorities, and that the PJ may be reacting in the same way 

 

to Bobbin: my concern is that the PJ submitted to the political intervention back then, and may still be so inclined

 

to Mirage: I hope you’re right

 
You're not alone Garrincha, I have the same concerns. I make no secret of the fact I have no faith in SY/AR. For me it all rests on the PJ now. I see them as the last hope.

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by Woofer on 17.01.14 12:41

Daisy wrote:
Garrincha wrote:Thanks for all replies.

 

to Woofer: my concern is that a fear of “egg on faces” may be what is holding back the UK authorities, and that the PJ may be reacting in the same way 

 

to Bobbin: my concern is that the PJ submitted to the political intervention back then, and may still be so inclined

 

to Mirage: I hope you’re right

 
You're not alone Garrincha, I have the same concerns. I make no secret of the fact I have no faith in SY/AR. For me it all rests on the PJ now. I see them as the last hope.

Same here Daisy.  That`s why I`m pinning my hopes on Helena Monteiro being uncorruptible.
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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by Bishop Brennan on 17.01.14 14:45

It's not plain sailing though. Scotland Yard have been instructed by our politicians not to investigate the McCanns. That is an incredible piece of political intervention in an independent police force - basically telling them who they may or may not investigate...! It may be a first (publicly at least). This is to preserve the face of all those who backed the McCanns right from the start. In politics, preserving face is far more important than finding the truth. Always.

I suspect it's not a lot different in Portugal, although National Pride is also a player here. If the PJ did put together a credible case against the McCanns for example, then it would be coup of a lifetime for them. It would of course make the UK and SY look like rank amateurs, foolish or corrupt. So there will be heavy political pressure placed on the Portuguese to avoid this "national embarrassment" - using terms such as National Security, or Wider Sovereign Issues. Money talks in these situations, and the Portuguese economy is disappearing down the toilet... National Pride vs Political / Financial expediency...
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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by HelenMeg on 17.01.14 15:27

marconi wrote:
Garrincha wrote:Sorry if this sounds negative but I’ve been wondering: if GA was removed by the PJ because of UK political pressure why would the PJ today be pursuing his thesis?

Garrincha, that happened in 2007, during Brown's and Socrates' administrations. 
Amaral and the PJ always concluded the same but they were gagged.
They were victims of Brown and of the Murdoch concern.
Things have changed, the PJ can ccontinue their investigation
Marconi
I really really really really really really really hope you are right.. otherwise the situation is a bit depressing...

we need some positive news sad

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by marconi on 17.01.14 15:39

I had the hope that the reconstruction would happen today or yesterday but it is cold and rainy in Algarve. I see Gerry going down the street, carrying an open umbrella, wearing a hat and coughing, and carrying an actress little girl wrapped in a red blanket...

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by HelenMeg on 17.01.14 15:42

What reconstruction Marconi? Is there due to be one? or are you laughing!!

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by Daisy on 17.01.14 15:46

marconi wrote:I had the hope that the reconstruction would happen today or yesterday but it is cold and rainy in Algarve. I see Gerry going down the street, carrying an open umbrella, wearing a hat and coughing, and carrying an actress little girl wrapped in a red blanket...
What'chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?  huh

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by marconi on 17.01.14 15:55

When the Yard became part of the case, I read on JJoana Morais' that the review would include everything, also the reconstruction.
Since October it is known that it went from 38 to 41 persons of interest.
Redwood did not say again that Tapas 9 are innocent.
My theory is that those 3 extra people belong to Tapas 9.
I have been following the moon.
May the 2nd 2007 was full moon and two days ago too. My hope was that the reconstruction would happen now, with approxmately the same moon light.
I don't believe in 1000s Phone calls in Praia da Luz that night. It is not Tokyo, is it?

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Re: Reasons not to be so cheerful

Post by HelenMeg on 17.01.14 15:58

Oh right Marconi- thanks for the update..
I am reading the Estrela book. Wish I'd read it before. Contains quite a lot of info that I either didn't know or had forgotten.
Chapter 13, 14 etc - really good.

I hadn't realised that the body residue was found in the spare tyre well, where it was suspected the body was hidden... just good for
refreshing knowledge

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