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How should it have gone?

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by Guest on 09.12.13 10:31

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:So who was the child who went to Portugal with the McCanns?

A marvelous question indeed.

The way I see it is, the creche sheets are faked, many of us think the photos are iffy, and one very enterprising poster on here has had a tacit admission that a sub was being used during the week. Staggeringly good fortune that one would be available, assuming that something happened to M early on in the holiday, don't you think?

That's why I've made repeated mention of airport CCTV. Where is it?

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by IKNOWWHATHAPPENED on 09.12.13 10:43

OK. So there is a connection between Gerry and Celtic Football Club. 

How about a connection between Celtic interesting board members, past and present and Gerry ?

Maybe a connection between a Celtic board member(s) and an 'entity' that played a MAJOR role in the early days ?

Perhaps a former CEO of the club was involved in a scandal involving the dreaded P word ?

If you cant find at least 10 coincidences between that club and the 'charade' there is something wrong. Obviously coincidences are just that, coincidences.

Big Jock knew.

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by Guest on 09.12.13 11:03

The substitute from the start theory is one that personally I can't accept but it's no wonder that there is doubt as to whether Madeleine was ever in Portugal because of the scant evidence to confirm this.
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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by Hongkong Phooey on 09.12.13 18:55

@IKNOWWHATHAPPENED wrote:OK. So there is a connection between Gerry and Celtic Football Club. 

How about a connection between Celtic interesting board members, past and present and Gerry ?

Maybe a connection between a Celtic board member(s) and an 'entity' that played a MAJOR role in the early days ?

Perhaps a former CEO of the club was involved in a scandal involving the dreaded P word ?

If you cant find at least 10 coincidences between that club and the 'charade' there is something wrong. Obviously coincidences are just that, coincidences.

Big Jock knew.
Gerry wouldn't have been there at the same time?

The big Jock knew statement gives your leanings to the other side of Glasgow?
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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by Guest on 09.12.13 20:03

Care to explain this?
It's gobbledygook to an outsider
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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by Hongkong Phooey on 09.12.13 20:41

@Portia wrote:Care to explain this?
It's gobbledygook to an outsider
There is a big Protestant/ Catholic devide in Glasgow the Rangers supporters (Protestant ) use the big Jock knew statement (Jock Stein the legendary Celtic manager) to taunt the Celtic support. It's all to do with the youths being interfered with by member (s) of the club staff.
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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by Guest on 09.12.13 20:52

Thank you.

Big Jock even has his own wikipedia lemma

However: what on earth does this have to do with GM who, as far as we know is not a soccer player a/o fan, but a golfer/jogger/tennisplayer?

Let's not delve too far into the Dark Deep Unrelated, shall we?
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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by Hongkong Phooey on 09.12.13 21:21

@Portia wrote:Thank you.

Big Jock even has his own wikipedia lemma

However: what on earth does this have to do with GM who, as far as we know is not a soccer player a/o fan, but a golfer/jogger/tennisplayer?

Let's not delve too far into the Dark Deep Unrelated, shall we?
Iknowhathappened commented that Gerry was employed by Celtic and they have history with the p word, another coincidence, however I think this was before his time there.
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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by IKNOWWHATHAPPENED on 09.12.13 21:35

@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Portia wrote:Thank you.

Big Jock even has his own wikipedia lemma

However: what on earth does this have to do with GM who, as far as we know is not a soccer player a/o fan, but a golfer/jogger/tennisplayer?

Let's not delve too far into the Dark Deep Unrelated, shall we?
Iknowhathappened commented that Gerry was employed by Celtic and they have history with the p word, another coincidence,  however I think this was before his time there.

------------------------------------------

Obviously Gerry wasn't there when Stein was there. Celtic have had their 'issues' alot more recently than and since Gerrys time there.



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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by Hongkong Phooey on 09.12.13 22:15

@IKNOWWHATHAPPENED wrote:
@Hongkong Phooey wrote:
@Portia wrote:Thank you.

Big Jock even has his own wikipedia lemma

However: what on earth does this have to do with GM who, as far as we know is not a soccer player a/o fan, but a golfer/jogger/tennisplayer?

Let's not delve too far into the Dark Deep Unrelated, shall we?
Iknowhathappened commented that Gerry was employed by Celtic and they have history with the p word, another coincidence,  however I think this was before his time there.

------------------------------------------

Obviously Gerry wasn't there when Stein was there. Celtic have had their 'issues' alot more recently than and since Gerrys time there.


Why don't you just spell it out then instead of the big Jock knew nonsense. It has been publicised those who were found guilty etc. so what's your angle?
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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by ultimaThule on 11.12.13 19:43

@Portia wrote:Thank you.

Big Jock even has his own wikipedia lemma

However: what on earth does this have to do with GM who, as far as we know is not a soccer player a/o fan, but a golfer/jogger/tennisplayer?

Let's not delve too far into the Dark Deep Unrelated, shall we?

I've just added a further post to page 2 of this thread https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2165-dr-gerry-mccann-working-at-the-spire-private-hospital-leicestershire#56574 which shows it may not be entirely unrelated, Portia.

It's curious there's no menton of sports-mad Gerry's professional interest in footballers on the profile he prepared for the Spire, a private hospital which no longer includes his name on its list of consultants?

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by tigger on 12.12.13 8:03

@ultimaThule wrote:
@Portia wrote:Thank you.

Big Jock even has his own wikipedia lemma

However: what on earth does this have to do with GM who, as far as we know is not a soccer player a/o fan, but a golfer/jogger/tennisplayer?

Let's not delve too far into the Dark Deep Unrelated, shall we?

I've just added a further post to page 2 of this thread https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2165-dr-gerry-mccann-working-at-the-spire-private-hospital-leicestershire#56574 which shows it may not be entirely unrelated, Portia.  

It's curious there's no menton of  sports-mad Gerry's professional interest in footballers on the profile he prepared for the Spire, a private hospital which no longer includes his name on its list of consultants?  

 roses 
Impressive research there, the fixation with all things possible and impossible on the 3rd May 2007 tends to obliterate the need to look back, not just days, weeks or months but many years.
So now the gaps are showing up as shown in the SpIre thread. Fascinating.


Eta: This topic turned into a football thread - we should really have a sports section.  winkwink 

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by marconi on 12.12.13 8:36

Somewhere I read about "weeks, a few months" and I forgot where.  It was said by the Met.
Did that person refered to the publication of the results of the investigation?
Who can reply me this question?

Their silence is eloquent.  The McCanns' too.

My theory is that if there will be arrests, it will be made on a very fast way.
I still think that the police could be waiting for the next full moon, to be close to May the 3rd.

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by currio on 12.12.13 8:56

Redwood said something to that effect on the 'Crimewatch Update' that it would take weeks/months.

As for an update of the investigation, I'm not holding my breath ...maybe they'll let it die.

As for the silence, I wonder has there been such a long spate of silence during the last 6 years? I haven't followed it too much myself.

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by tigger on 29.12.13 6:29

To continue the theme of the title: Kate being groomed to be a celebrity.

PR was already in place with the first appearance for the press imo.
Gerry read his emotions from a piece of paper, Kate looked like a teenager, skinny and out of it.

Soon she certainly looked like one of the celebrities to be found in the right-hand column of the DM.
The ponytail excuded innocence, especially with the ribbons in Celtic Colours (another good marketing move) .
The press was wildly happy to have a slim blonde to photograph.
Celebrity photo opportunities were in place very quickly. The pair jogging ( Taking their lead from the DM celebrity reports imo) the family photographs, the immediate contacts made - possibly via their PR gurus - with A-list celebrities.

One snippet that filtered through from the early days is revealing: Gerry wanted Kate to pose in her swimsuit for the press.
It never happened, it may well have been Mitchell et al who put a stop to that.
Cuddlecat as part of the innocent image worked well, but somehow the two cuddlecat websites set up were sidelined. Imo a platoon of cc's were on standby to be sold for the cause, but that idea- like the swimsuit was imo rejected by the PR machine.



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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by plebgate on 29.12.13 10:21

Snipped from Tigger's post:


"
One snippet that filtered through from the early days is revealing: Gerry wanted Kate to pose in her swimsuit for the press.
It never happened, it may well have been Mitchell et al who put a stop to that."


Yes I remember that little snippet too.   IIRC there was a photo of Mrs. and FP sitting by the side of the pool on 4th/5tyh/6th May 2007? in shorts and I remember posters on 3As commenting how inappropriate they thought the photo was considering Maddie had disappeared only a couple of days before or at most, a week before.

Surely they could have found a cafe (or one of their sitting rooms) to sit and have a chat?

I have tried to find that photo but can't.

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by tigger on 29.12.13 11:30

@plebgate wrote:Snipped from Tigger's post:


"
One snippet that filtered through from the early days is revealing: Gerry wanted Kate to pose in her swimsuit for the press.
It never happened, it may well have been Mitchell et al who put a stop to that."


Yes I remember that little snippet too.   IIRC there was a photo of Mrs. and FP sitting by the side of the pool on 4th/5tyh/6th May 2007? in shorts and I remember posters on 3As commenting how inappropriate they thought the photo was considering Maddie had disappeared only a couple of days before or at most, a week before.

Surely they could have found a cafe (or one of their sitting rooms) to sit and have a chat?

I have tried to find that photo but can't.

I recall something more on the lines of Kate on the beach as an official photoshoot. Possibly with the twins. Now think of the copyright of such a picture - would be worth a lot.  That would have everything the press wanted,  Slim blond mum with her cute children. Copy  to kill for but possibly - like selling cuddlecats  -just a little too much on the tacky side.
Like those  collection boxes in the OC?

It's why I feel sorry for Kate sometimes, unpleasant as I find her. The fons and origin of what we're looking at is Dr.GM imo.


Re. The photo you're looking for, probably whooshed Didn't Gerry play tennis within days?
There was a shot on TV in the very early days of the whole family sitting in the sun in OC for all the world like an animated holiday group. The PR's first task would have been to whoosh those. A picture is worth a thousand words..

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by Guest on 29.12.13 11:41

I've just posted on the Spire hospital thread linked to this one my thoughts on the demise of Kate's career for the prioritization of Gerry's.

I agree, Tigger, that Gerry is the leader and master-manipulator in all of this. Kate, distasteful as she is, is the compulsive follower.
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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by tigger on 23.01.14 10:34



whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
tigger wrote:
You've still got a point there. What if the time was set for say 10.30 and a contact prepared in the UK started the ball rolling at 9.30, thinking it was 10.30 in the Portugal? A short message from the UK, (eg. info sent to sky and BBC) would start a major panic.Then that would explain the too early witness statements very nicely.
- and from then on it was all downhill.

If they were going to so much trouble it seems a little amiss of them not to bother to check time differences.

Their digital camera showed the wrong time one hour off, according to the story of the last photo.
Thank you MarcoG for bringing this to the fore.
tigger, for some reason I had not seen your above message which is in my mind 'pivotal'.

I have always wondered why 'uncle phil' had blabbed her mouth off about the jimmied shutters to all and sundry, when they clearly weren't.

She must have got her story from someone and it would have been Gerry, because this is what he was ranting had happened, even as he and the rest of the Portuguese police could see, 'weren't'.
Is this the 'disaster' ?

The error of the photo time is excruciatingly bad...especially as the photo didn't appear until Gerry returned to PdL, and funnily enough, so did 'uncle phil', (like her brother, not very good with Portuguese time) that very same evening.

Such a failure to observe local detail, but it would come as a surprise to a lot of people that Portugal was NOT on the same time as her very close neighbour Spain, which like the rest of Europe, is notoriously known to be ONE HOUR AHEAD of UK.

In terms of it being a 'bit amiss of them not to check time differences', try telling that to the BBC news reporter who stood in front of the very building that she (muttered she) had a (reuters?) message, from which she was reading, that building number 7 had come down, and then, lo and behold just as it was being reported as 'down', 20 mins later it did, as prophesied 'come down'.

Now if a blunder of that global magnitude can happen, which then was the reason for going to war, then the simple little McCs (c**k up) and their glasgow wee lassie's blabbing, are not even on the map.

Suddenly it all went wrong when the windows didn't become jemmied and dear old phil announced big style that they had been.

Difficult to get out of that one Gerry. Looks more and more like 'pre-planned'.
unquote

I've copied the above post from Case Simplification topic. I will post a list of the early witness statements next.

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by tigger on 23.01.14 10:38

This is from the topic:  https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5062-the-events-from-9pm-3rd-may-to-end-of-4th-may-as-told-by-the-main-witnesses  
This topic also gives further references worth a look.

Tony Bennett wrote:
This excellent analysis of the key witness statements about events from 9pm on 3 May until the end of 4 May was compiled in, I think, early 2009 by Kazlux, astro and Joana Morais, and can be found still, I believe, on Joana Morais' blog. It may well be on the mccannfiles site as well. I reproduce it here as a research tool for this forum. In doing so, I make no comment on it, fearing that any comment which does not unequivocally back the McCanns' account of events could be deemed libelllous and a contempt of court. So the information below (in several parts) can be used by McCann-sceptics and McCann-believers alike to support their respective understandings of these events:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

21H20, Executive Chef A. E. G. F. P. heard some clamour, which made him leave toward the restaurant, a few meters away, and was then informed that a child had disappeared.
at around 21:40, he left the restaurant passing through the same esplanade where moments before, he had seen the same table occupied by the three couples, empty, who had left in the meanwhile various items, principally clothing. He was told by his colleagues that the child who had disappeared was a child of one of those couples;

Property manager B. J. J. W. heard about the news being investigated on the evening of 3rd May at about 21.30 – 21.40 from P.B., a Dutchman and owner of the Atlántico restaurant, who passed by the witness near the Baptista supermarket, in P da L and who asked for his help in searching for Madeleine. He then went to the place where the events occurred which was at about 21.45 – 21.50. At this time various local people and MW staff were present. When questioned he said that the police had not yet arrived and that about 5 minutes had passed.

Dinner finished at around 21H45 and some minutes passed where waiter R. A.E D. L. O. looked towards the table but saw no one—his colleague told him that all the guests of that table left rapidly and abruptly. He remembers having heard shouts in the direction of the McCann apartment;

Between 21.30 and 22: Fitness instructor/Waiter J. R. S. went over to the table and joked with (Diane Webster): “They’ve left you alone?” She responded more of less with these words: “No, they went to see if the little girl was there.” I responded that I hoped they would find her somewhere in the apartment. At saying this, I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleine’s father, running to the pool and to the children’s play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone. It immediately hit me that after talking to the older woman, that the little girl had not been found. I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty.

approx. 21.55 pm The Smith Family, (4 adults and 5 children) are returning from 'Kelly's Bar', heading north, all spread out along the street and they pass a man walking down the middle of the street, carrying a child, with the head against his left shoulder and the arms hanging down alongside the body, in light colored or pink pyjamas, bare feet, pale skin typical of British and blond, shoulder-length hair; the girl is about 3-4 years old, about 1 metre tall. - The man is not dressed like a tourist; he's wearing cream or beige trousers, classic cut, of linen or cotton. He is white, 30-35 yrs, 1.70-1.80 meters tall, average build, physically fit, short, brown hair, with a face that looks tanned. (GA)

M. M. M. d. S. declares that on the night 03-05-07, she left the apartment at around 21H58—she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time and she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge;
. They left the building and the deponent and her boyfriend took the Opel Frontera, previously indicated, which was parked out front of the apartment, in the private parking area of Block 6 where her friend’s apartment was located;
. She declares that the night was good with a breeze, and that it was dark;
. After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;
She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn’t yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;
. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;
. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;

Receptionist Ocean Club H. J. S. L. was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 21.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared. He immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child’s father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again.

Bar chef M. J. d. S. R. heard about it on that night at about 22.00 when an English tourist arrived at the Millenium restaurant to ask whether anyone had seen a lost little girl.

After 22:00 R. R. S. B. and his wife were still sitting on the veranda in the B. family apartment. They heard noises downstairs and afterwards found out that a child had disappeared. Gerald was seen and spoken to by N.B. and R.R.S.B. They heard him calling for Madeleine when they were sitting on N.B.’s balcony, not far from the McCann’s apartment. They both went down to talk to Gerald and helped in the search.

Between 22H00 and 22H30, waiter J. J. M. B. was in the kitchen, and was alerted, by a colleague, to the fact that a guest entered the restaurant screaming, and at this point, the entire group left in a panic; his colleague proceeded to tell him that the (screaming) individual indicated that a child had gone missing.

about 22.15 Owner of “Duque de Holanda” Bar J. O. W. was working in her bar when some employee who she cannot identify (but whom she knows works for Mark Warner) informed them that a girl had disappeared from the OC.

At about 22.17 Hotel manager E. L. K. received a call from L.J., the Crèche Manager, informing her that the girl had gone missing. She met L.J. and the Service Manager, A.T., near to the Tapas Bar and they initiated the “Mark Warner procedures for the search of a missing child”.

Tennis coach D. J. S. knew about the disappearance of little MBM that same night, about 22h20, because he was contacted by a resort worker having attended and partcipated in the searches.

Tennis coach G.L.J. knew about the disappearance of little MBM that same night, about 22h20, because she lives in the same house as another OC worker and (s)he told her.

22.28 Manager J.H. gets a phone call from L.J., head of the child care service, who told him about a female child staying at the resort who had disappeared. This phone call was made to his mobile phone at about 22.28 on 03-05-2007. About 5 minutes later J.H presented himself at the resort. Upon arriving at the scene he saw about 100 people, employees, guests and residents searching the grounds, the beach and adjoining areas calling out the child’s name.

Head of Maintenance J. C. S. B. was informed about 22.30 by phone by the OC administrator, who had contacted his wife, S.B..

Manager G. R. C. arrived at 22H25 and there found J.H. and other functionaries, S.B., J.B., the former who is employee manager and the latter maintenance; when he arrived at the Ocean Club, he went to the entry of the pool and the restaurant (Tapas) areas of said establishment, having there come across various individuals in the local, all of which were participating in the search for the lost child, and was made up of guests and other people;

At around 22h30, after having left the apartment where she is living, close to the establishment mentioned, together with two more colleagues, also residents there, whose name are Leanne and Sarah, nanny K. M. found her colleague Amy. That during their discussion she was informed that Madeleine McCann had disappeared and that they were looking for her. For this reason, together with her colleagues, they also began searching for Madeleine McCann.

Millennium waitress A. N. d. . heard about the events on the same day at about 22.30 when she was at the restaurant bar where she works, relaxing with her mother and sister. At that moment, a British individual, a tennis instructor entered the restaurant, and told them what had happened, and headed towards the interior of the space where the pool are, looking for the girl. She says that because she had had some alcoholic drinks, she was not in a condition to participate in the searches. However, her sister did take part in the searches, together with her boyfriend.

Just after 22.30 upstairs neighbor Mrs. F. heard the hysterical shouts from a female person, calling out “we have let her down” which she repeated several times, quite upset. Mrs Fenn then saw that it was the mother of little Madeleine who was shouting furiously. Upon leaning over the terrace, after having seen the mother, Mrs. F. asked the father, Gerry, what was happening to which he replied that a small girl had been abducted. When asked, she replied that she did not leave her apartment, just spoke to Gerry from her balcony, which had a view over the terrace of the floor below. She found it strange that Gerry when said that a girl had been abducted, he did not mention that it was his daughter and that he did not mention any other scenarios. At that moment she offered Gerry help, saying that he could use her phone to contact the authorities, to which he replied that this had already been done. It was just after 22.30.

Millinnium restaurant employee D. J. A. V. d. S. stated that an individual, tall and of British nationality, appeared in the restaurant at about 22.30/22.45, who asked him whether he had seen a little girl who had disappeared, describing her as blonde and three years old and that she was probably wearing pyjamas. The witness and his colleague, M.d.F., replied that they hadn’t, upon which the individual ran out.

Millennium waiter G. C. C. C. says that when the events occurred he was working in the restaurant and heard about the disappearance at about 22.30 – 23.00 from a Mark Warner employee (he doesn’t know his name, but he is of English nationality) who, at that moment asked to use a telephone in the bar to make a call as he had received information about the disappearance of the girl on his mobile. He does not know the concrete terms of the conversation but he is clear that something had happened. The employee then left the bar/restaurant. When his shift ended he joined in the searched with his colleague Nelson. He searched until 03.00 AM.

Around 22H45, nanny S. B. O. was in the bar known as ‘Mirage’ together with her colleagues, whose names are Emma, Shinead, Najoua, Hayley and Stacy, which is situated close to the perimeter of the aforementioned resort. After returning from the bathroom, she was informed by her colleague Hayley that a child, of about 3 years of age, and whom was staying at the Ocean Club, had disappeared; she immediately, together with her colleagues, went to the area of a restaurant (Milenium) in the establishment in question near to the bar they were at and began searching for the missing child; during the search, she realised, together with her colleagues of the Ocean Club, others (tourists/owners) were also participating in the search;

22.45/22.50 Manager J. H. went to the apartment being used by the McCanns, where he saw that both members of the couple were in a panic and were shouting that the child had been taken. He always saw the McCanns together in the apartment they were occupying at the time, with the exception of an episode when Gerry went to the main 24 hour reception, with the purpose of speaking to a GNR officer

22.50 pm - First call to GNR Lagos precinct (Guarda Nacional Republicana, rural police); The first call to Police Precinct of GNR (Portuguese Rural Police) in Lagos, reporting a missing child and asking for Police help was made at 10.50pm and a patrol was sent, arriving at Ocean Club 12/15 minutes later, according to Lieutenant-Colonel Costa Cabral, Head of Public Relations of GNR.

About 22.55/23.00 manager E. L. K. went to the McCann’s apartment to obtain the girl’s description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. When she arrived at the apartment, there was a lady on the terrace, whom she now know to be Kate McCann, accompanied by the wife of one of her friends, David Payne. Kate could not say a word, looked very upset and about to cry. It was Mrs Payne who provided her with the details that she needed.

Head of Maintenance J. C. S. B. arrived at about 23.00 and immediately began to search the resort and the beach area, searching in all the places where the child might be. The searches were carried out by employees from the Tapas and the restaurant who had just finished their shifts and by some local people.

Accountant J. D. N. d. O. N. notes that on May 03, 2007, (Thursday), at around 23H00, at home, in Ramalhete, Casa ***, Praia da Luz, Luz, Lagos, situated close to the OC resort, he noticed “much movement and traffic that was out of the ordinary,” outside (vehicles and individuals passing by frequently) for that time of night. For this reason, he went to look out of his window. Whilst this was happening, he noticed a colleague, J.C.B. (Head of Maintenance at the resort) standing next to his house, who told him what had happened. J.C.B. told him that a child staying at the tourist complex had disappeared.

about 23.00 hrs, OC guest G. McK. approached the McCann’s apartment from the bushes at the rear of the apartment. He was searching the gardens. He did not know it was the McCann’s apartment. He saw Mr Gerry McCann standing alone in the doorway at the rear of the apartment talking on his mobile telephone. Mr McCann was looking our over the swimming pool and did not see Mr McKenzie. Mr McCann was absolutely distraught telling the person receiving the call that he feared “she (Madeleine McCann) had been taken by paedophiles”. He does not know who the person receiving the calls was but presumes it to be a family member: “I worked my way around the area, eventually coming around the back of the tennis courts and up towards what I now know to be the McCanns apartment a couple of hours later. I was looking in the little gardens on the poolside of that block, I was in the end garden when I heard a male voice, he sounded distraught his voice cracking with emotion. I looked to see who I now know to be Gerry McCann stood above me on the balcony/patio about 3 metres away speaking on a mobile phone. I cannot recall his exact words but I got the impression that he was speaking to perhaps a family member or someone he was very close to due to the nature of his conversation. He said something along the lines of there being Paedophile gangs in Portugal and that they had abducted Madeleine. I was so shocked by this, having originally thought that she had just wandered off.”

After she arrived about 23.00 S.B. went immediately to the apartment A5 where she found several people inside the apartment and outside of it. She entered in the flat but soon left without having spoken with anyone, because she was informed that elements of the GNR were in the principal reception. She went there to meet them.
When she came close to the elements of the GNR she found that behind her was
Gerry, Madeleine's father, accompanied by another man whose identity she doesn't remember. Then Gerry kneeled down, hit the floor with both hands, positioning himself as if he were a praying Arab, and screamed twice of anger, what he said being impossible to understand. Then Gerry stand up and accompanied her (the witness) and the other man in the car of the GNR to the apartment A5. S.B. walked Gerry to the GNR car, so he could deliver the requested documents. She states that she carried out these diligences, and other diligences, at the request of the GNR Commander as they used the deponent’s knowledge of the English language to translate the questions that were asked from the missing person’s family members, and the answers that were given. She remembers that Gerry gave the GNR Commander several photographs of the missing person. These were postcard-type photographs, taking their size and shape into account. They were actually photographs of the size and shape of a postcard, and they seemed to be all similar to her.

23.00/23.05 pm - A GNR patrol arrives at Ocean Club (two men); When they arrived they saw the girl’s father, a friend whom GNR Officer N. F. P. d. C. describes as tall and blond, an OC employee and a translator who was also an OC employee, named S.B.. He found it notable that when they were still at the main reception, the father kneeled down, laying his head on the ground and crying, at the same time as making an expression which GNR Officer N. F. P. d. C. did not understand.

Estimated time around 23.10 pm Both David Payne and Matthew Oldfield were seen by E.L.K. when she was on her way to the beach, the search area to which she was assigned by L. J. (child care director and search coordinator).

23:14 Gerry calls Kate (8 seconds)

23:17 Gerry calls Kate (31 seconds)

Estimated time 23.15 - After hearing about the circumstances of the disappearance (from the father with the help of translation) GNR Officer N. F. P. d. C. does not remember whether the word abduction was mentioned, and he went in his police car, to the apartment, accompanied by the father, the friend and the translator.

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by canada12 on 23.01.14 10:52

When Gerry was speaking on the phone, how did he know there were pedophile gangs working in PDL? Unless he'd already done the research and had the blame ready, at his fingertips, in advance?

Surely, if you were aware in advance that there were pedophile gangs afoot in your neighbourhood, you wouldn't leave your door unlocked and your children in a position whereby these dreaded pedophile gangs could easily get access?

In fact, you'd probably want to ensure the dreaded pedophile gangs would be thwarted in their tracks by perhaps securing the services of the resort's babysitting services.

Wouldn't you?

All my humble opinion.

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by jeanmonroe on 23.01.14 11:59

@canada12 wrote:When Gerry was speaking on the phone, how did he know there were pedophile gangs working in PDL? Unless he'd already done the research and had the blame ready, at his fingertips, in advance?

Surely, if you were aware in advance that there were pedophile gangs afoot in your neighbourhood, you wouldn't leave your door unlocked and your children in a position whereby these dreaded pedophile gangs could easily get access?

In fact, you'd probably want to ensure the dreaded pedophile gangs would be thwarted in their tracks by perhaps securing the services of the resort's babysitting services.

Wouldn't you?

All my humble opinion.

Well they certainly had a lot of 'interesting' reading material in their apartment, didn't they?

At the other side of the bed, on Gerry's bedside table the attention is given to, between other books, “The interpretation of Murder ". In the study [office space] where Gerry writes his blog and where he works at the campaign to find his daughter, another surprise: CEOP manuals, books with access restricted to police and governmental entities.

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by Guest on 23.01.14 14:09

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/secrets-of-the-madeleine-mccann-dossier-325724#.UuEh1cFZD5o

According to Lori Campbell, the U K police gave the McCanns a "do-it-yourself guide" to policing.

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by tigger on 23.01.14 16:04

@canada12 wrote:When Gerry was speaking on the phone, how did he know there were pedophile gangs working in PDL? Unless he'd already done the research and had the blame ready, at his fingertips, in advance?

Surely, if you were aware in advance that there were pedophile gangs afoot in your neighbourhood, you wouldn't leave your door unlocked and your children in a position whereby these dreaded pedophile gangs could easily get access?

In fact, you'd probably want to ensure the dreaded pedophile gangs would be thwarted in their tracks by perhaps securing the services of the resort's babysitting services.

Wouldn't you?

All my humble opinion.

You're making a logical point. Allegedly between 10.00 pm and 11.00 sh pm, despite being busy with, timelines, shutters, roaring like a bull and so on - he had time to find out there were paedophile gangs in PdL.

If however, he had this information even half an hour before 10.00 pm and still left his children alone with easy ingress - the deepest circle of hell is too good for him.

It's all pointing to a ready made 'story', made up by not very intelligent people imo.

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Re: How should it have gone?

Post by tigger on 05.06.14 17:52

At the risk of blowing my own trumpet but on the other hand saving myself a good half hour poking at a mini screen with a stylus,  This topic gives my take on what should have happened on the 3rd .

Don't forget the dogs Gerry was so keen to have there early and I'm convinced that the disastrous Smith sighting was the main reason to go for bundleman.  So what with dogs - definitely no panic run with a dead body.  
They're not cadaver dogs I hear you say - I know, but still dogs.  big grin 

One sighting was enough and bundleman would cancel the Smith one with the added benefit of an independent alibi for Gerry.

For the 10.00 pm sighting he only had the T 7 to place him at the table. Who's a clever boy then?

Eta: just as well for iirc the Paynes retracted their earlier statement in July 07 and didn't place Gerry at the table.

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