The Rothley Meeting - a turning point

McCann friends to be named as 'suspects' Sunday Express

Sunday November 4,2007
By Matt Drake

FOUR friends of Kate and Gerry McCann expect to be named as prime suspects over the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine.

Dr Russell O'Brien and his partner Jane Tanner, Matthew Oldfield and Dr David Payne were last night forced to bring in their own lawyers after increasing fears that Portuguese police were preparing to implicate them in the case of the vanished four-year-old girl.

It has emerged that the four, all members of the "Tapas Nine" dining party, have been warned detectives are prepared to make them official suspects in the next few days.

The latest dramatic development follows the discovery by Portuguese investigators of contradictions in key statements made in the first few hours after Madeleine vanished.

DNA samples also appear to support the chilling theory that Kate and Gerry were involved in whatever happened to their daughter.

Yesterday an emotional Gerry said: "Today marks six months since Madeleine was taken from us. It is an incredibly long time for us but must be even longer for Madeleine.

"It is so painful for us simply being separated, but all the more distressing when we have to speculate about the situation in which Madeleine finds herself. We have no idea whether she is suffering but we have to hope and pray that she is being treated like a princess, as she deserves."

If named, the McCanns' friends Dr O'Brien, 36, Ms Tanner, 37, Dr Payne, 41, and Mr Oldfield, 37, will join them and expatriate Robert Murat as the only suspects in the investigation.

Portuguese police have received permission from a judge to travel to Britain to re-interview the four.

Last night a source close to them said: "They are aware this might happen and although they have yet to receive any official word there have been strong enough signs for them to take legal advice.

"They have nothing to worry about because they are innocent and the details or contradictions in their statements, if any, can be explained.
snipped. unquote



This was something I hadn't come across and the Rothley meeting and what happened before and afterwards is significant imo. Some points:

Around this time one of the nannies visited Rothley.
Brian Kennedy flew to PdL and visited the PJ and Murat twice.
David Smith from the Timesonline stated that he had been 'briefed' by Gerry McCann after the meeting.
Jane Tanner and ROB let it be known that they wanted to change their statements afterwards.
The visit of the PJ was delayed by many months - held up by the Home Office.
Two days after the meeting the Panorama documentary was screened.
The certain conviction that Murat was guilty was slowly watered down over the following months.

The press seemed free to speculate and print information - no matter where they obtained it. The Express group was effectively silenced in March 08.

Thanks tigger, I will add this for more info..................


By Rod Chaytor, Victoria Ward
Comments
11 Dec 2007 00:00

'Tapas 9' in secret McCann meeting


Kate and Gerry McCann secretly met the rest of the "Tapas Nine" amid reports Portuguese police are to re-interview them.


Kate and Gerry McCann held a secret meeting with the rest of the "Tapas Nine" amid reports that Portuguese police are coming to Britain to re-interview them, it was revealed yesterday.

The friends met last month for the first time since the McCanns' four-year-old daughter Madeleine vanished in Portugal seven months ago.

They were all dining with the couple in a tapas bar near the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, where Madeleine was sleeping with two-year-old twin brother and sister Sean and Amelie.

Portuguese police were furious about the meeting. A source close to the investigation claimed it was "highly suspicious" that they had met up to "talk tactics".

Detectives are said to be awaiting formal clearance to come to Britain and question the nine again about alleged discrepancies in their statements.

But the couple's spokesman Clarence Mitchell denied that the nine had gathered to square their accounts before a police visit.

He said the emotional reunion "a few weeks ago" at a hotel near the couple's home in Rothley, Leics "was just to discuss the overall situation.

"They weren't comparing notes or doing anything untoward. It was an operational meeting to discuss what might be coming up in the next few weeks.

"They are in touch all the time by phone and emails anyway but decided to meet face to face. They were together for a few hours and discussed the overall position. They wanted to see each other because they hadn't done so for some time."

He added: "It was a private meeting and I therefore don't want to say more about it."

The other seven members of the party are heart specialist Dr David Payne, 41, his doctor wife Fiona, 34, hospital consultant Dr Russell O'Brien, 36, his partner Jane Tanner, 37, endocrinologist Dr Matthew Oldfield, 37, and wife Rachael, 36, and Dr Payne's mother Dianne Webster.

They are key witnesses who gave police crucial evidence supporting the couple's belief that Madeleine was kidnapped.

Jane Tanner claims to have seen a man carrying a small child in pink pyjamas like Madeleine's away from the flat. Three have given statements claiming they saw Robert Murat, the first official suspect, outside the apartment - though he claimed he was at home with his mother.

A friend of the couple claimed the meeting gave the lie to a rumour that some of the party had fallen out with the McCanns and were preparing to change their statements.

The source said: "It was a show of solidarity under police claims that one or two had wanted to change their stories. That is not the case and the meeting showed that.

"It was a meeting to express support by the friends and just to see each other again. They hadn't all seen each other for months."

The friend said the reunion last month was kept secret because of the huge interest it would have generated.

The McCanns were officially made suspects on September 7 by Portuguese police, who believed they accidentally killed Madeleine and hid her body. Some detectives are said to have suspected that some or all of the seven helped cover up the crime.

A furious Portuguese police source said: "This meeting is highly suspicious.

"The McCanns left Portugal and flew home the moment they were made suspects and refused to answer many key questions about what had happened.

"Now, they and their friends are about to be re-interviewed and it is revealed they have met up in secret in a hotel.

"The McCanns are suspects and their friends are witnesses who could soon also have arguido (official suspect) status. They should not be meeting to discuss the case and certainly not the evidence."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]







TAPAS 9 HOLD SECRET MEETING TO TALK TACTICS


Kate and Gerry McCann held a secret meeting with the rest of the "Tapas Nine" amid reports that Portuguese police are coming to Britain to re-interview them, it was revealed yesterday.

The friends met last month for the first time since the McCanns' four-year-old daughter Madeleine vanished in Portugal seven months ago.

They were all dining with the couple in a tapas bar near the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal, where Madeleine was sleeping with two-year-old twin brother and sister Sean and Amelie.

Portuguese police were furious about the meeting. A source close to the investigation claimed it was "highly suspicious" that they had met up to "talk tactics".

Detectives are said to be awaiting formal clearance to come to Britain and question the nine again about alleged discrepancies in their statements.

But the couple's spokesman Clarence Mitchell denied that the nine had gathered to square their accounts before a police visit.

He said the emotional reunion "a few weeks ago" at a hotel near the couple's home in Rothley, Leics "was just to discuss the overall situation.

"They weren't comparing notes or doing anything untoward. It was an operational meeting to discuss what might be coming up in the next few weeks.

"They are in touch all the time by phone and emails anyway but decided to meet face to face. They were together for a few hours and discussed the overall position. They wanted to see each other because they hadn't done so for some time."

He added: "It was a private meeting and I therefore don't want to say more about it."

The other seven members of the party are heart specialist Dr David Payne, 41, his doctor wife Fiona, 34, hospital consultant Dr Russell O'Brien, 36, his partner Jane Tanner, 37, endocrinologist Dr Matthew Oldfield, 37, and wife Rachael, 36, and Dr Payne's mother Dianne Webster.

They are key witnesses who gave police crucial evidence supporting the couple's belief that Madeleine was kidnapped.

Jane Tanner claims to have seen a man carrying a small child in pink pyjamas like Madeleine's away from the flat. Three have given statements claiming they saw Robert Murat, the first official suspect, outside the apartment - though he claimed he was at home with his mother.

A friend of the couple claimed the meeting gave the lie to a rumour that some of the party had fallen out with the McCanns and were preparing to change their statements.

The source said: "It was a show of solidarity under police claims that one or two had wanted to change their stories. That is not the case and the meeting showed that.

"It was a meeting to express support by the friends and just to see each other again. They hadn't all seen each other for months."

The friend said the reunion last month was kept secret because of the huge interest it would have generated.

The McCanns were officially made suspects on September 7 by Portuguese police, who believed they accidentally killed Madeleine and hid her body. Some detectives are said to have suspected that some or all of the seven helped cover up the crime.

A furious Portuguese police source said: "This meeting is highly suspicious.

"The McCanns left Portugal and flew home the moment they were made suspects and refused to answer many key questions about what had happened.

"Now, they and their friends are about to be re-interviewed and it is revealed they have met up in secret in a hotel.

"The McCanns are suspects and their friends are witnesses who could soon also have arguido (official suspect) status. They should not be meeting to discuss the case and certainly not the evidence."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This is imo relevant to the Rothley meeting because it must have been one of the agenda points. (news headlines on the 8th November said two Tapas wanted to change their statements) JT and ROB had probably decided that they were not willing to appear as neglectful parents.
Waiters had also said they'd seen two monitors.

The exchange re the McCanns and the baby monitor and the Smiths is in: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
(this is between someone in Germany and David Smith) snipped here and there.

Here is a snippet from that exchange I find very interesting:
Message: Dear Mr. Smith,

In your article "Kate and Gerry McCann: Beyond the smears", from 16th December 2007, you mention this fact: "Russell O’Brien
and Jane Tanner had brought a monitor too, but theirs wasn’t getting much of a signal from the Tapas restaurant 50 yards away."


D. Smith:
[...] however, I had a long briefing with Gerry McCann before I wrote my article and I guess the baby monitor info came from him. I am aware that many discrepancies arose in the portuguese statements through misunderstandings of language. And you ought to be aware that there will always be minor discrepancies of fact in statements - failings of memory, interpretation and so on - which are not in themselves sinister or suspicious.
unquote

The full question asked D Smith was:
The couple never mentioned to the PJ that they brought a monitor as well, in all their statements they claim that the Paynes were
the only ones with a baby monitor. Only in April 2008, in the rogatory interviews conducted by Leicestershire Police, this piece
of information appeared. It might seem a small omission, but in the light of possible neglect charges, would have been important.
Jane Tanner claims in the rogatory interview that she brought it with her in the evenings and positioned it on a ledge/wall behind
her. This was NEVER mentioned to portuguese Police as the released statements show. The question I have is, how did you
get this info before the rogatory interviews even took place? I know you have to protect sources, but this seems a very strange
inside knowledge.
unquote.

The entire sequence of events here is worth very close study.

We know from the police files that on Tuesday 13 November, two very important meetings took place:

(A) A meeting at Portimao Police Station between Ricardo Paiva and another Portuguese Police Officer and these 3 men: Brian Kennedy, Francisco Marco, the boss of Metodo 3, and his sidekick and lead investigator, Antonio Giminez Raso, who was in jail on remand for 4 years 2008-12 on serious charges

and

(B) The evening meeting at the home of Ralph and Sally Eveleigh (Robert Murat's aunt & uncle), which was attended by Murat and his mother, Murat's lawyer, Francisco Pagarete, Brian Kennedy and Edward Smethurst.

These were two very high-powered meetings indeed.

Let us also consider this. These meetings of very important, busy people, were not arranged at the drop of a hat. The purpose of and agenda for these meetings had to be discussed and negotiated. The date and time had to be arranged. Flights had to be booked. Marco and Giminez Raso from Barcelona. Kennedy and Smethurst from Swettenham (Cheshire) and Rochdale (Lancashire).

Indeed, the Portuguese Police files reveal that Kennedy & Metodo 3 were asking the Portuguese Police (via their Spanish Police contacts) for a meeting 4 weeks beforehand (mid-October).

The Rothley Court meeting followed the weekend of 17/18 November. I think it was on the Sunday, but am not 100% sure. Again, that must have taken a week or two of planning, at least.

The Panorama programme was either on Monday 19 or Tuesday 20 November (I don't have my notes to hand at present). That must have taken weeks of planning, and of course was in part based on a very convenient set of video recordings by Jon 'I-work-behind-the-scenes' Corner, which just 'happened' to find its way into Panorama's hands (the Panorama team were too coy to say how this happened).

That, plus a few other events around this time, enable us to consider the degree of planning of these events, and to ponder on what the true agenda was in all this.

Finally, let us note that not long afterwards, the strange lawyer who acted in the criminal proceedings against Dr Amaral - Marcos Aragao Correia - met with those two from Metodo 3, Marco and Giminez Raso, on Monday 10 December. That was yet another meeting that involved a great deal of planning; Corriea had to travel 1,000 miles from his home, the Atlantic island of Madeira, while Marco and Giminiz Raso had an equally long journey from Barcelona.

It seems pretty obvious that they were getting their heads together about a possible search of the Arade Dam for Madeleine's bones, which actually began in the last week of January 2008.

Marco and Giminez Raso were employed by Brian Kennedy. He was working for the McCanns and the Trustee Directors of the Find Madeleine Fund.

What did the McCann Team hope to achieve by this meeting by the Arade Dam?

After all, it must have cost them - or I should say the Fund - two or three grand for the air fares alone.

Thanks for those posts, if we gather as much as we can find related to the meeting we may reconstruct an agenda.
We already have one point on the agenda - the baby monitor which was now granted to JT and the subsequent briefing of David Smith by GM.
Murat, the exoneration of -.
The Arade dam. The helpful Correia. This surfaced in January when Gerry said 'that's wonderful news' on hearing bones had been found.

I'm very interested in finding the data on the nanny, because the McCanns actually issued a press statement that she should not be bothered and something to the effect that they had arranged (safe) accommodation for her. Was this the same nanny who then got a job in New York? One wonders if this would also be a result of the meeting.

Mid November the PJ and the FSS had a meeting - the FSS wasn't 'sorted' until later in 2008.

Meanwhile Metodo3 was beavering away in Marocco.

Tony Bennett wrote:
[...]
Marco and Giminez Raso were employed by Brian Kennedy. He was working for the McCanns and the Trustee Directors of the Find Madeleine Fund.
[...]

***
Are you mixing up Brian Kennedy, the uncle and Brian Kennedy, the double-glazing financial supporter?

This is the timeline for November 2007 from Tigger in another topic, which helps see what was happening around these weeks

1/11
CM says no indication that T7 will be made arguidos.
NoTW reports carrier bag found with DNA links to Maddie.
Blue fleece jacket, adult jeans, shower curtain, green child’s t-shirt etc.
8/11 Newspaper headline that 2 Tapas seeking to provide fresh statements
9/11 a statement from FSS inconclusive.
10/11 PJ rule out burial at sea after hitech Navy search.
13/11 Brian Kennedy meets with PJ and shortly afterwards has a meeting with Murat in Burgau .
the PJ inspectors Ferreira and Paiva submitted an account of their meeting at a later date.
14/11 Newspapers report that Rebelo and his detectives have a list of 100 questions to ask the T9.
The PJ is also frustrated at the length of time to get final test results from FSS.
15/11 A solicitor, reportedly acting for one of the Tapas who wants to change their story claims that the McCanns have received ‘far beyond normal ‘ help from UK Government.
16/11 Jane Tanner breaks her silence in a BBC Panorama programme to say that she now believes she saw Madeleine.
17/11 Tapas 9 had a meeting in a hotel nr. Rothley. TVstation Antena3 claims it was set up by Medtodo3 tam and lasted from 10 to 4.
They claim that none of the 9 will change their statements and that 3 will indicate that Murat was in the area before and after the alarm.
19/11Panorama programme is screened 58 mins. see transcript.
21/11 PJ will travel to UK to interview the T7. Focussing on certain contradictions.
26/11 FSS allegedly state that items of the ccase are in ‘high security’ storage.
28/11 Two forensic science experts arrive in UK to review evidence.
Meeting at a secret location with the FSS and LP.
29/11 All day discussion by the above. CM state that there is nothing to incriminate the McCanns because they are innocent. The FSS says tests are ongoing.
30/11 PJ investigators return to Faro. They meet with the British ambassador, and the consular official.
PJ are finally granted permission to re-interview the T9.

-------------
jane tanner seems to be involved with proceedings a lot in November imo. We had the airport bag story at the start of November with items found inside of a fleece. I think the 'airport bag' finding is obviously a fabricated story but to 'scare' certain people to keep the pact of silence. Is it a coincidence this fabricated story comes out just prior to the brian kennedy meetings? It was at this time we had series of jane tanner wanting to changer her statement

Its funny that Maddie’s DNA is now miraculously valid to link up in this story, and after just 10 days

The list of contents in the airport bag, the ammunition to create the scare

Quote...."the bag contained a blue fleece jacket and a pair of adult jeans with traces of DNA that contained "moderate" links to the missing four-year-old"

From jane tanners RI 8th April 2008, she states:
4078 “It is a long time ago, I know, we have already discussed the feasibility of this. But describe, not just that you saw Gerry up the road, describe what route you take and what you can see and what you can hear and whether it is light or dark and any other noises that you are conscious of”.
Reply “Umm”.
4078 “I know it is a tall order”.
Reply “Yeah”.
4078 “But just do the best you can”.
Reply “Yeah. Erm, I’m just trying to, well I’ve walked out of the, walked out of the, erm, the Tap, you know, walked sort of into the reception of the Tapas Bar and obviously walked up the road. I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably came down to about here, but then I’d got flip-flops on and cropped trousers, because I’d only got, I didn’t take jeans, I know I didn’t take jeans on holiday, and then. Oh I’m sidetracking a bit, but that’s why I knew one of the pictures in the paper wasn’t from the holiday, because I hadn’t got jeans on the holiday with me, so. Erm, yeah, and I’d got cropped trousers on and just flip-flops, so I can remember sort of walking, I couldn’t walk that quickly because I’d got these silly flip-flops on and I couldn’t walk that, that well in them, so to speak. " ......The important headline prior: MADDIE DNA: TRACES FOUND ON FLEECE AND STAINED JEANS

......November 19th jane tanner does her first interview for Panorama. The famous one when she says 'I' not 'he' of the abductor man/woman/murat whom she is describing...in hindsight!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

-------

Note the timing of an article which followed in the Sun....20th November 2007! Just days 'after' the kennedy/murat meeting and Rothley meeting, suddenly its not murat she saw but a man with his faced turned away!. This is the start of the change of story taking them away from naming murat as suspect, which up to this point they had done everything possible to do. (the deals/agreement had been done at the meetings, hence all change of stories). It is also interesting to bare in mind the 'airport bag' story too which clearly was some sort of warning shot to jane tanner to stay in line or else imo, with tanner's fleece/jeans announcement in her RI statement that followedJane Tanner's exclusive interview with The Sun, 20 November 2007 and Panorama programme 19th November

I DID see man abduct Maddie

The Sun

By ONLINE REPORTERS
Published: 20 Nov 2007

MADDIE kidnap witness Jane Tanner yesterday told how she watched the tot being snatched – and insisted she has NO doubt (1) about what she saw.

In an exclusive interview with The Sun – her first with any newspaper – Jane forcefully hit back at critics who have suggested she is lying.

Amid sobs, she said: "I DID see a man that night carrying away Madeleine.

"She WAS abducted."

Tears welling in her eyes, she went on: "I wake up to that image ever day. Every day I see him there, striding away, carrying Madeleine and I try desperately to remember more detail, what his face was like. (1)

"I think about it over and over again. It’s horrible.

"Madeleine was (2) adorable. Every day I hope this is the day we find her."

Twisting her Look For Madeleine yellow and green wristbands, Jane, 36, then went into detail about the night of May 3.

She told how she and the other members of the so-called Tapas Nine had been leaving the restaurant at the complex in Praia da Luz to check their children.

Returning

It was on one of her visits to see her two daughters that Jane passed Maddie’s dad Gerry, 39 (3). He was returning from seeing his children.

Seconds later she saw a man cross from left to right in front of her with a child lolling back in his arms.

Jane said: "It wasn’t unusual to see people with children, even at that time of night. But my attention was drawn to him because the child had bare feet.

"It was a cold night and I thought that was strange because as a mother I would never have taken my child around at that time without something on their feet or a blanket. All I could see of the child was their legs dangling.

"The man was about ten to fifteen feet in front of me (4) and was walking quite quickly and I can remember thinking, 'That’s odd'.

"But that was all, nothing to make me scream out to make him stop. I never at that time thought it could be Madeleine. I’d just passed Gerry (3) so I thought his children were all asleep in bed."

Jane carried on to her apartment where she found her daughters were fine, (5) so she went back to the tapas bar.

About 15 minutes later her partner Dr Russell O’Brien checked (5) and found one of the girls had been sick (5) so he asked a friend to fetch Jane.

It was while Jane was there that Maddie’s mum Kate, 39, went to see her children at around 10.05pm – and found the girl missing.

Jane said the first she knew was when she looked out of her window and saw the table at the tapas bar was empty (6). She opened the door and there was commotion.

She said: "I saw all our friends outside shouting. I opened the door and one, Rachael, shouted at me, 'Madeleine’ s gone!' As soon as she said that the image of that man carrying the child came into my head and I felt physically sick. A feeling of complete horror washed over me."

Minutes later Jane saw Kate. Close to tears, Jane admitted she could not bear to tell her about the man. (7) She said: "At that time it seemed everyone thought Madeleine was hiding. (8)

I knew that if I told her about the man it would shatter that. I was also hoping desperately that I’d been wrong. Instead I took another friend, Fiona, to one side and told her. (9)

"Then, at around 11.15, two policemen arrived and I told them. Later CID arrived. They did this thing called a cognitive technique, where they put you back in the moment, and it was then that I remembered the pyjamas.

"There were pink and white, they were what Madeleine was wearing. (10) I just felt so awful, I felt I could have stopped this from happening. I think of that everyday.

"I have to live with it forever, that guilt is never going to go away." It has been reported that the man she saw that night was Robert Murat, the first person named as a suspect. But Jane said she simply does not know (11).

Jane, from Exeter, Devon, said: “He had his face turned away (1) and it was dark.

"I’ve done an artist’s impression and want people to look at that and rack their brains as to whether they know him, or if they were on holiday, saw him.

"Please just ring the Find Madeleine Spanish hotline".

OBSERVATIONS & COMMENTS FROM TONY

1. Tanner first of all says 'I try desperately to remember what his face looks like' but later says 'He had his face turned away' (!). Later on, despite his face being 'turned away', she was apparently able to pontificate that 'George Harrison man'/'monster man' looked like the man she had seen (!). Of course, we mustn't forget that at a press conference in September 2009, when the story was the Victoria Beckham-lookalike asking an anonymous British banker for her daughter in downtown Barcelona at 2am, former Chief Inspector Dave Edgar said: "Tanner could have seen a woman".

2. Only four months after Madeleine was reported missing, Tanner uses the past tense about Madeleine.

3. Twice she mentions passing Gerry. Strange...first because Gerry can't remember seeing her down that narrow lane, and second because Gerry was talking to Wilkins but Jane doesn't say anything about her seeing Wilkins. It's as if she hasn't rehearsed very well and has forgotten her lines.

4. 10-15 feet in front. Hmmm. That's about the length of an average-sized bedroom. In just 4-5 paces, she would have bumped into him!

5. If they were 'checking every half-hour', why did Russell O'Brien go to see the girls within 15 minutes of Tanner's visit. And was one of the girls so badly sick that O'Brien had to wash her sheets and pillow-case in the washing-machine AND bath her, even though 15 minutes before, Tanner pronounced the girls 'fine' (one presumes 'fine and sleeping soundly', though she does not say so).

6. Hmmm. So she just 'happened to look' out of the apartment window? She says the Tapas bar table was 'empty'. Yet both Dianne Webster and the waiter maintain that Dianne remained steadfastly at the table after the others rushed off.

7. Yet Russell O'Brien was gaily writing down on a ripped-out cover of Madeleine's Activity Sticker Book: "9.15pm - Jane sees abductor with Madeleine".

8. Come off it, Tanner. Both Dr Gerald McCann and his wife told the media and the police: "We knew instantly that it was an abduction".

9. And we're espected to beleive that Fiona didn't tell Kate either?

10. Did she know what pyjamas Madeleine was wearing? And she didn't actually say the pyjamas were 'white and pink'; she said they 'had a pinkish aspect'. And what happened when the McCanns held up Madeleine's ACTUAL pyjamas. Little Amelie piped up: 'MADDIE'S JAMAS'. Strange too that Amelie referred to her as 'Maddie' when the McCanns insisted she was alweays called 'Madeleine'?

11. Goncalo Amaral is very very clear in his book. On Sunday 13 May, when Madeleine would have been four years old, Jane Tanner 'adamantly' insisted that when Murat walked past the police van she was in that afternoon, that he was the abductor she'd seen 10 days earlier. This Sun interview was the beginning of a concerted effort by the McCann camp to begin to deny that Tanner had ever positively identified Murat. The Sun interview, presumably carried out at least a day or two in advance of publication on 20 November, followed swiftly on the high-level meeting in the Algarve on 13 November, just a week earlier, between double glazing magnate Brian Kennedy and Edward Smethurst, his lawyer and also the McCanns' 'co-ordinating lawyer', official suspect Robert Murat and his lawyer, Francisco Pagarete, and Murat's mother and aunt and uncle.

--------

A very good indicator of how brian kennedy does his business dealings:

• Administrator hits back at Blue Knights consortium
• Brian Kennedy accused of trying to 'bulldoze the process'

Whitehouse has now hit back regarding the Blue Knights' hopes of taking Rangers out of administration via a company voluntary arrangement. The administrator said: "At the moment we have four bids and they [the Blue Knights] are fourth of four. The Blue Knights have been told time and time again that the bid is too low. They have adopted a strategy to try and bulldoze the process and railroad us through to submission.

He is 'misleading', he " tries and bulldozes the process and railroad us through to submission", he has "a very dangerous strategy", he likes his "confidential meetings "

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Châtelaine wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:
[...]
Marco and Giminez Raso were employed by Brian Kennedy. He was working for the McCanns and the Trustee Directors of the Find Madeleine Fund.
[...]

***
Are you mixing up Brian Kennedy, the uncle and Brian Kennedy, the double-glazing financial supporter?

No, absolutely not.

The Brian Kennedy who had these two vital meetings in Portugal on 13 November was the Brian Kennedy who...

* is a double glazing magnate

* bought Everest Windows

* is a Jehovah's Witness and paid for a JW Kingdom Hall to be built in Cheshire

* according to Dr Kate McCann's book 'madeleine' got his in-house lawyer Edward Smethurst to 'phone Dr Gerald McCann on Weds 12 September 2007 to offer his services

* appointed Metodo 3

* appointed Kevin Halligen

* appointed local ex-cops Dave Edgar & Arthur Cowley

* intimidated witnesses into silence

* keeps trying to buy Rangers Football Club

* rents out office space to Cheshire Police etc. etc.

The other Brian Kennedy is the McCanns' uncle, whol ives in Rothley, and his main claim to fame is to have been interviewed by Rothley market cross 2 weeks after Madeleine was reported missing. Asked what the fund was for, he answered - truthfully but badly off-message - 'mainly for legal expenses'.

May I post a link to that interview for the benefit of anyone who hasn't seen it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

How Brian Kennedy could know then about forthcoming legal fees I don't know. It's also notable for Granny McCann's comment that Gerry has been cheered by the fund getting underway.

is a Jehovah's Witness and paid for a JW Kingdom Hall to be built in Cheshire

Michaela Walczuk is a Jehovah's Witness too. Wonder if brian kennedy ever visited her JW Kingdom hall in PDL?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This part is about the contents of the final report of the Portuguese authorities:

Additionally, the report also takes issue with the fact that, as was widely reported at the time, the McCanns and their ‘Tapas’ friends had a secret meeting in a Leicestershire Hotel in October 2007. As a result of which, a more ‘corroborating’ series of statements were issued, relating to the sequence of events of the night of May 3rd. OR, as the Portuguese put it:
“A typed report produced by the McCann holiday group after a detailed joint meeting between them all. This report of theirs deals with their recollections about the events of the evening of 3rd May”. unquote

The date of the meeting is wrong but I'm sure we're talking about the same meeting. It's the typed report that gets me. Did they take it with them to the Rogatory Interviews? Because that harks back to the third timeline of 3/5 on the 4th or 5th of May, which was typed out and I believe covered two sheets of A4. The Tapas 7 were most amazed that the PJ would not allow them to take the crib sheets into the interview room.

Strong on crib sheets here, how did they pass their exams when at doctor school?

Tony Bennett wrote:

Châtelaine wrote:

Tony Bennett wrote:
[...]
Marco and Giminez Raso were employed by Brian Kennedy. He was working for the McCanns and the Trustee Directors of the Find Madeleine Fund.
[...]

***
Are you mixing up Brian Kennedy, the uncle and Brian Kennedy, the double-glazing financial supporter?

No, absolutely not.

The Brian Kennedy who had these two vital meetings in Portugal on 13 November was the Brian Kennedy who...

* is a double glazing magnate

* bought Everest Windows

* is a Jehovah's Witness and paid for a JW Kingdom Hall to be built in Cheshire

* according to Dr Kate McCann's book 'madeleine' got his in-house lawyer Edward Smethurst to 'phone Dr Gerald McCann on Weds 12 September 2007 to offer his services

* appointed Metodo 3

* appointed Kevin Halligen

* appointed local ex-cops Dave Edgar & Arthur Cowley

* intimidated witnesses into silence

* keeps trying to buy Rangers Football Club

* rents out office space to Cheshire Police etc. etc.

The other Brian Kennedy is the McCanns' uncle, whol ives in Rothley, and his main claim to fame is to have been interviewed by Rothley market cross 2 weeks after Madeleine was reported missing. Asked what the fund was for, he answered - truthfully but badly off-message - 'mainly for legal expenses'.

***
Thank you. I know all of that. You just got me puzzled when mentioning that Brian Kennedy was working for the McCanns and the Trustee Directors of the Find Madeleine Fund, as it is the uncle, who is on the board of directors of the "Fund" ...

PeterMac wrote:It is always most interesting to go back to basics, back to the start. It is what a review of a cold case does ! Assume nothing.
A good Reviewing Officer will not even speak to the person who led the original enquiry about the case for fear of prejudging issues.
This is becoming a most interesting thread.
Conspiracy would be a crime committed within the jurisdiction. Just like Fraud.

And they were still arguidos! Getting that lifted was quite an effort. From January on it's mentioned a lot and expected much earlier than it actually happened.
For in January they pulled out all the stops to make more money and yet they couldn't e.g. take part in an interview with Oprah Winfrey unless the arguido status was lifted.
I don't think it was just the timeline of the 3rd that was being discussed at the meeting.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Brian Kennedy’s involvement in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been controversial. An article by Mark Hollingsworth in the Evening Standard in August 2009 claimed that “The involvement of Brian Kennedy and his son Patrick in the operation was counter-productive, notably when they were questioned by the local police [in Portugal] for acting suspiciously while attempting a 24-hour ‘stake out’.”

The ‘Evening Standard’ article also showed that, later, the relationship between Metodo 3 and the Portuguese police had ‘completely broken down’. Hollingsworth claimed that key witnesses were questioned ‘far too aggressively’ by Kennedy’s investigators, so much so that ‘some of them later refused to talk to the police’. Interference with witnesses to that extent could amount to a criminal offence.

We are not aware that any other nation allows people to interfere with potential witnesses in an investigation in such a way as to cause them to refuse to testify, as Mark Hollingsworth in his article claimed had happened in this case, due to Kennedy’s investigators.

It was Francisco Pagarete, Mr Murat’s Portuguese lawyer - the one whom he was so anxious to see when he flew out to Praia da Luz on 1 May - who confirmed that a second meeting involving Brian Kennedy took place at Mr Murat’s uncle’s house in the Algarve in November. He told the BBC: “[Brian Kennedy] came here to give his support to Robert and to say he doesn’t believe Robert was involved in this story in any way or sense. And he asked if Robert could help the investigation for the finding of Madeleine in any way”. Mr Pagarete added that Mr Kennedy had ‘promised to stay in touch with Mr Murat’ but ‘had not contacted him since’. Mr Pagarete also confirmed that Edward Smethurst was at the meeting.

The Portuguese paper Jornal de Notícias appeared to have some additional information about this meeting. Their report, early in 2008, said: “The meeting - a dinner that Brian Kennedy asked to be discreet and far away from the eyes of the press - took place in the end of last year at a house of Murat's relatives in Burgau (Vila do Bispo). At the dinner were Robert Murat and Kennedy, their respective lawyers, Jennifer Murat and the aunt and uncle of Murat” [NOTE: This appears in fact to have been Ralph Eveleigh, Murat’s uncle, and Sally Eveleigh, his cousin].

If Murat and Kennedy each had one lawyer with them - Pagarete and Smethurst - that makes seven people present at that dinner in Burgau: Murat and his mother, his uncle Ralph and cousin Sally Eveleigh, who ran the 8-room guest house at Vila do Bispo, two lawyers and Brian Kennedy.

What was discussed at this meeting that Kennedy didn’t want the press to know about?

This evening meeting was either on the same day, or very close to, the meeting that Brian Kennedy had with the Portuguese Police on 13 November 2007 that we referred to above. The two Portuguese Police Inspectors, Ferreira and Paiva, later submitted an account of their strange meeting with Brian Kennedy.

The report, which is amongst the documents contained in the police files, indicates that right at the start of the meeting, Brian Kennedy was keen to stress that his intentions were ‘purely charitable’, because he felt ‘concerned about cases of child neglect and child abduction’. The Director of Metodo 3, Francisco Marco, presented information to the PJ about three situations, allegedly received via their ‘hotline’.

The first of these concerned an incident that the British media had already referred to, at the end of October 2007: a woman who had been baby-sitting at the Ocean Club, in Apartment 5A in August/September 2006, said she spotted a man ‘hidden in the shadows’, the same day that Madeleine disappeared. A story about this had surfaced in the Sun on October 31.

According to the newspaper, “The nanny - identified only as M.H. - reported the frightening incident to the police in England after the hunt for Madeleine started in May, but did not speak to the police in Portugal”. Clarence Mitchell added that: “This evidence supports what we have always said, that Maddie was taken from her bed by an abductor”. The Portuguese Police had however ruled out this report, because the detectives considered that there was no proof that it was in any way related to Madeleine's disappearance.

The second piece of information was about the alleged existence of images of paedophilia on a computer at the home of Sergei Malinka, witnessed by the fiancé of a British woman, four years ago, when he was at Malinka's house. According to this witness, he questioned Malinka on the subject and he explained that the computer belonged to a client and that he would report it later to the authorities. All of the computers at Malinka's house were seized and examined, but the Portuguese Police report said that nothing of any relevance or suspicion was found.

The third piece of information referred to a detailed witness statement, according to the Metodo 3 report, about a woman handing what the witness was convinced was a child, wrapped in a blanket or a sheet, over a fence to a man, next to two parked vehicles, near a town 100 miles from the Algarve. The witness, a Portuguese lorry driver, M.G., looked at several photos and picked out Michaela Walczuk [Robert Murat’s girlfriend, now his wife], saying that her picture was the one that most resembled the woman he had seen.

The British media published a version of this story on 19 November 2007, but with different details. The METRO free paper boldly wrote: “A witness spotted Murat's German girlfriend, Michaela Walczuch, in a car with Maddie, on 5 May, in central Portugal”. On the same day, the Daily Mail published a similar story: “According to a source, a new witness identified Michaela Walczuch as the woman seen with the missing child, in central Portugal, 160 kilometres [100 miles] from where she disappeared on May 3rd”.

As usual, Clarence Mitchell had a few things to say to the media: “We are not going to comment on any line of the investigation except to say that we are encouraged by the fact that our investigators seem to be making progress. Kate and Gerry are not ruling out any possibility”.

The Portuguese Police studied this incident and questioned the Portuguese lorry driver, but the facts that he described to the police were somewhat different to those reported in the British press. The lorry driver said he saw a woman handing something to a man, over a fence, wrapped in what looked like a blanket. It wasn't heavy, because they did it easily and the fence was around 1.6 metres high (5 feet). Asked if it could have been the body of a child, he responded that nothing he had seen would indicate that.

Questioned also about the positive identification of Michaela Walczuk, according to Metodo 3's report, the witness told the Portuguese Police that he couldn't see the woman's face, because he was driving his lorry at 45/50 mph, and the couple were at some distance. He only chose Michaela's photo from amongst the others Metodo 3 had shown him because she had the same hair colour and similar build.

The actual facts which emerged from the lorry driver, then, did not seem anywhere near sufficient to justify the press headlines claiming that he had positively identified Murat and his girlfriend.

ENDS

The other meeting was between Brian Kennedy, the Portuguese Police, and the Spanish private detective agency recently chosen by Kennedy and the McCanns: Metodo 3. This took place in police headquarters in Portimao.

A report from the Portuguese Police referring to a ’phone call on 19 October, gives us some background; here it is:

“On the 19th of October, we were contacted by Alberto Carbas, Chief of the Kidnapping Unit of the Commissary-General, based in Madrid, who passed to us the information that the McCann family had contracted a Spanish private detective agency known as ‘Metodo 3’. The costs of their investigation into Madeleine McCann were being covered by a Scottish multi-millionaire whose name is Brian Kennedy. His objective was to find Madeleine.

“We were asked if we were available and interested in meeting with a representative of Metodo 3 and the Spanish Commissary General and Chief of the Kidnapping Unit of the Police in Spain. The purpose of this proposed meeting, they said, was to find out the truth, but they stated that they would not interfere in police work. At most, they said, they would ‘complement’ our investigation. They firmly stated that they are not working directly for the McCann family, but for Brian Kennedy. They didn’t ask for any information regarding the investigation, nor was any offered to them, for obvious reasons”.

@jd
Those two meetings, Tapas group with the McCanns at Rothley in October and Murat and Kennedy with their respective lawyers in November, appear to have been critical in determining the course of what was to become of this investigation. Did they all agree then to remain silent and go along with the McCann's version of the event in return for a promise of a handsome payoff?

tigger wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This part is about the contents of the final report of the Portuguese authorities:

Additionally, the report also takes issue with the fact that, as was widely reported at the time, the McCanns and their ‘Tapas’ friends had a secret meeting in a Leicestershire Hotel in October 2007. As a result of which, a more ‘corroborating’ series of statements were issued, relating to the sequence of events of the night of May 3rd. OR, as the Portuguese put it:
“A typed report produced by the McCann holiday group after a detailed joint meeting between them all. This report of theirs deals with their recollections about the events of the evening of 3rd May”. unquote

The date of the meeting is wrong but I'm sure we're talking about the same meeting. It's the typed report that gets me. Did they take it with them to the Rogatory Interviews? Because that harks back to the third timeline of 3/5 on the 4th or 5th of May, which was typed out and I believe covered two sheets of A4. The Tapas 7 were most amazed that the PJ would not allow them to take the crib sheets into the interview room.

I am sure that the reference to the 'typed report' is the one done by the Tapas 7 group around 7-10 days after Madeleine was reported missing. It doesn't refer to the Rothley Court Hotel meeting, which was not in October but was during the weekend of Sat/Sun 17/18 November. The agreed version of events clearly took some time to compile. Even in the first couple of hours after Madeleine was reported missing, they had two separate attempts, using a page torn out of Madeleine's Activity Sticker Book

Châtelaine wrote:Tony Bennett said:

* rents out office space to Cheshire Police etc. etc.

The other Brian Kennedy is the McCanns' uncle, whol ives in Rothley, and his main claim to fame is to have been interviewed by Rothley market cross 2 weeks after Madeleine was reported missing. Asked what the fund was for, he answered - truthfully but badly off-message - 'mainly for legal expenses'.

***


Thank you. I know all of that. You just got me puzzled when mentioning that Brian Kennedy was working for the McCanns and the Trustee Directors of the Find Madeleine Fund, as it is the uncle, who is on the board of directors of the "Fund" ...

I see.

My point was in effect that double-glazing Brian Kennedy, when e.g. meeting the Portuguese Police at Portimao and having dinner with Murat, Pagarete and Smethurst, was clearly working directly for the McCanns but was also, we must assume, working at the behest of the Trustee Directors (who included the OTHER Brian Kennedy). All the Trustees, including folk like would-be celeb Esther McVey, must bear their share of the blame for appointing e.g. Metodo 3 and Kevin Halligen

Ribisl wrote:@jd
Those two meetings, Tapas group with the McCanns at Rothley in October and Murat and Kennedy with their respective lawyers in November, appear to have been critical in determining the course of what was to become of this investigation. Did they all agree then to remain silent and go along with the McCann's version of the event in return for a promise of a handsome payoff?

Sorry to jump in, but October is wrongly stated in the Portuguese report. It was November and all these meetings happened in close succession.

13/11 Brian Kennedy meets with PJ and shortly afterwards has a meeting with Murat in Burgau .
14/11 Newspapers report that Rebelo and his detectives have a list of 100 questions to ask the T9.
16/11 Jane Tanner breaks her silence in a BBC Panorama programme to say that she now believes she saw Madeleine. (reported pre screening)
17/11 Tapas 9 had a meeting in a hotel nr. Rothley.

tigger wrote:

Ribisl wrote:@jdT hose two meetings, Tapas group with the McCanns at Rothley in October and Murat and Kennedy with their respective lawyers in November...

Sorry to jump in, but October is wrongly stated in the Portuguese report. It was November and all these meetings happened in close succession.

13/11 Brian Kennedy meets with PJ and shortly afterwards has a meeting with Murat in Burgau .
14/11 Newspapers report that Rebelo and his detectives have a list of 100 questions to ask the T9.
16/11 Jane Tanner breaks her silence in a BBC Panorama programme to say that she now believes she saw Madeleine. (reported pre screening)
17/11 Tapas 9 had a meeting in a hotel nr. Rothley.

We just need to refine this a little further:

Sorry to jump in, but October is wrongly stated in the Portuguese report. It was November and all these meetings happened in close succession.

That's correct.

13/11 Brian Kennedy meets with PJ and shortly afterwards [almost certainly the very same evening] has a meeting with Murat in Burgau.

14/11 Newspapers report that Rebelo and his detectives have a list of 100 questions to ask the T9.

16/11 Jane Tanner was reported in a newspaper, three days ahead of the programme, that she would break her silence in a BBC Panorama programme to say that she now believes she saw Madeleine...

17/11 (or it might have been Sunday 18th) Tapas 9 had a meeting in a hotel nr. Rothley. (the Rothley Court Manor Hotel)

19/11 (Monday) at 9.00pm Panorama documentary shown which rehearses the accounts given by the McCanns and their Tapas 7 friends and does not expose any of the contradictions or changes in story.

10/12 (Monday) Antonio Giminez Raso from Metodo 3 travels nearly 1,000 miles to the Arade Dam, Portugal. On the same day, strange Madeira lawyer Marcos Aragao Correia travels 1,000 miles from Madeira to be at the Arade Dam. Neither man has said what they discussed.

27/1/2008 Announcement of search for Madeleine's bones at the Arade Dam. Team of divers hired by 'Good Samaritan' Marcos Correia are photographed by the world's press. Correia says he is exploring the Arade Dam because underworld sources told him that Madeleine had been abducted, raped, killed and 'thrown into a murky lake'

18/2/2008 Antonio Giminez Raso arrested, charged with serious offences and remanded in custody by a Barcelona court. Immediately, Clarence Mitchell and Francisco Marco, boss of Metodo 3, emphatically deny on the record that Antonio Giminez Raso had anything to do with them

Oct 2008 Marcos Corriea admits he lied about the story he claimed he got from underworld sources and now says his interest in Madeleine began on Saturday 5 May 2007 when, after attending his first-ever Spiritualist Church meeting on Madeira, he had a 'vision' of a big man strangling a young blonde girl

For the moment I can't find the reference to the hotel booking for Baker which was apparently arranged by the mcCanns. (Rothley Towers not big enough then?)

From:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (DM article)


Re: Catriona Baker.

This is the nanny Madeleine McCann's parents believe will be a key witness in their fight to clear their names and find their daughter.
The Mail on Sunday has also learned that within 24 hours of that interview Ms Baker was dispatched by Mark Warner to take up a new position in the Greek resort of San Agostino along with four other members of staff.

The nanny revealed that she only met the McCanns in Portugal; she recognized that after returning to England she visited the couple upon their invitation, in November 2007. “I visited the family at their home following an invitation to see how all of us were doing.” The McCann couple is worried about searching for Maddie and about knowing how the nannies are doing.

tigger wrote:For the moment I can't find the reference to the hotel booking for Baker which was apparently arranged by the mcCanns. (Rothley Towers not big enough then?)

From:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (DM article)


Re: Catriona Baker.

This is the nanny Madeleine McCann's parents believe will be a key witness in their fight to clear their names and find their daughter.
The Mail on Sunday has also learned that within 24 hours of that interview Ms Baker was dispatched by Mark Warner to take up a new position in the Greek resort of San Agostino along with four other members of staff.

The nanny revealed that she only met the McCanns in Portugal; she recognized that after returning to England she visited the couple upon their invitation, in November 2007. “I visited the family at their home following an invitation to see how all of us were doing.” The McCann couple is worried about searching for Maddie and about knowing how the nannies are doing.

They were concerned with how the nannies were doing?? The same nannies they didn't trust to look after their children in the evening creche - those nannies? hmmm. pull the other one...

This is what I was thinking....They were concerned with how the nannies were doing? If we are to believe the mccann version of events then the nannies had absolutely nothing to do with anything, so why were the mccanns worried how the nannies were doing? especially Cat Baker

Even more suspicious is that Cat Baker was shipped off by Mark Warner to a Greek resort within 24 hours of giving her statement (6th May?)...Why was she singled out so quickly to get out of PDL and 6 months later the mccanns were so concerned about her? and seemingly was also part involved in the November 2007 meetings

It would be interesting to find out where Charlotte Pennington was in November.

From: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Armstrong, landlady of Rothley’s Royal Oak pub, where the McCanns sometimes go for lunch or dinner, said: “They are lovely, gentle, caring people.” She said that they would let pnly (only) their nanny or relatives babysit the children, and chose the Mark Warner resort precisely because they thought that it was safe.

CP claims in her current CV that she worked as a Live- in -Nanny in the UK (2004/2005) looking after a newborn baby & a 3 yr old. I wouldn't be at all susrprised to find these details had been altered a little and the children she cared for were the Mccann children.
unquote

What if CP was the Nanny and indeed the Nanny they needed the extra bed for? But instead she went there as a creche nanny?

A little off topic, but CB was the one who had to come on board - so was it CB who got a job in New York? Must be, but can't find it.

What if CP was the Nanny and indeed the Nanny they needed the extra bed for? But instead she went there as a creche nanny?

She did arrive on the same flight same day as the Oldfields/Tanner/O'Brien on 28th April. She was apparently the first on the scene on May 3rd, first into the apartment, She was the one who saw the "British' tourist way out at sea in the middle of the dark night kicking an object in a small boat! She was living in the same New Zealand town as kate mccann, when she was 'Charlotte the fairy". I always felt she resembled rachael oldfield, maybe she already knew jane tanner prior to the holiday? Didn't CP also speak on a Panorama documentary