The bedroom door - half-open, slightly open etc.

by suzyjohnson 17.10.13 10:52

Since the beginning, how far the bedroom door was open has been of great significance, to the Tapas group. Just trying to bring together what has been said about this by the them. This may become important because for years this information has been relevant to support the 9.15 pm abduction theory.

GM statement 4/5/07 -

GM is talking about MO's check at 9.30 pm. 'He went into the room, saw the twins and didn’t even notice if Madeleine was there, as everything was quiet, the shutters closed and the bedroom door half-open as usual. Then MATT went back to the restaurant'.

MO statement 4/5/07 -

MO talking about GM's check at 9.05 pm 'That Gerry allegedly went into his apartment and that he checked to make sure that Madeleine and the twins were sleeping in their bedroom, where it was quite dark. The bedroom door was half-open. That five minutes later, Gerry came back to the group in the restaurant.'

MO statement 4/5/07 -

MO talking about his own check on the McCann children at 9.30 pm 'At around 21h25, the interviewee went into his apartment and Madeleine's apartment to check on the children. He states that the door of the bedroom quarters, that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was half-open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots. That he couldn't see the bed occupied by Madeleine, but as it was all quiet, he deduced that she was sleeping'

by suzyjohnson 17.10.13 11:08

RMO's statement 4/5/07

She is talking about MO's check on the McCann children at 9.30 pm 'He didn't switch any lights on. He could see the twins in their beds. The bedroom door was half-open. It was only later that he realised this was strange. At the time, he gave no importance to the fact'.

GM's statement 10/5/07

GM talking about his 9.05 pm check 'he noticed that the children's bedroom door was not ajar as he had left it but half-way open, which he thought was strange, having then thought that possibly MADELEINE had got up to go to sleep in his bedroom, so as to avoid the noise produced by her siblings. Therefore, he entered the children's bedroom and established visual contact with each of them, checking and he is certain of this, that the three were deeply asleep'.

by Smokeandmirrors 17.10.13 11:10

suzyjohnson wrote:Since the beginning, how far the bedroom door was open has been of great significance, to the Tapas group. Just trying to bring together what has been said about this by the them. This may become important because for years this information has been relevant to support the 9.15 pm abduction theory.

GM statement 4/5/07 -

GM is talking about MO's check at 9.30 pm. 'He went into the room, saw the twins and didn’t even notice if Madeleine was there, as everything was quiet, the shutters closed and the bedroom door half-open as usual. Then MATT went back to the restaurant'.

MO statement 4/5/07 -

MO talking about GM's check at 9.05 pm 'That Gerry allegedly went into his apartment and that he checked to make sure that Madeleine and the twins were sleeping in their bedroom, where it was quite dark. The bedroom door was half-open. That five minutes later, Gerry came back to the group in the restaurant.'

MO statement 4/5/07 -

MO talking about his own check on the McCann children at 9.30 pm 'At around 21h25, the interviewee went into his apartment and Madeleine's apartment to check on the children. He states that the door of the bedroom quarters, that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was half-open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots. That he couldn't see the bed occupied by Madeleine, but as it was all quiet, he deduced that she was sleeping'

Because the state of the door is totally unproveable, due to a herd of Tapas munchers rampaging through a crime scene before the police were called, they can go on about it all they like but it has no bearing on anything. It does imply that it is an attempt to add "flesh to the bones" of a story.

It is the addition of minuscule points that haver no bearing on anything that are red flags here, yet the airbrushing out of Mrs Fenns statement and shrugging off the following "why didn't you come when we were crying" as simply "she moved on" (insert weird gurning facial expression) would indicate this is what is VERY important.

It is also VERY noteworthy that David Payne / Kate dismissed social worker Yvonne Martin who dashed to the scene the next day to help, and to whom Kate said Madeleine was taken by a couple. Additionally it is very interesting that Yvonne Martin recognised David Payne from her work in child protection when added to the Gaspar statements. The omission of these things in "official" accounting of the story is vitally important IMO.

by suzyjohnson 17.10.13 11:17

MO's rogatory interview 9/4/08, regarding Matthew's 9.30 pm check

'Erm, I've spent a lot of time debating how far the door was open, from previous questioning, and, you know, it wasn't flat back against the wall, because that would have looked odd, it was just sort of halfway open, so it seemed slightly unusual that it should be so wide open, because you could see straight into the middle of the room from the angle that you approach it, because the, you've got sofas here and you've got a bookcase here and you have to come out, you've got sort of the wall of the bedroom and then it goes back where the bathroom is and then comes out again, so you've got to come out round this wall to sort of, not out round this wall, but you come in and the doorway is sort of recessed, so you can see pretty much straight into the room from the doorway back or certainly as soon as you get past that final wall. So it seemed odd to have that door open, it's certainly not something that, you know, G**** has it completely pitch black, because it seems to me that she sleeps a bit longer, erm, but some people do leave the door open and I know Russell and Jane, for E***, and L*** subsequent, also has the door slightly open, you know, they have light and they prefer that, but we've never done that with G****, so it seemed a little bit odd, but not without the realm of possibility. So I approached the room but I didn't actually go in because you could see the twins in the cots and one of the, you could see the twins in the cots'

4078 "The door, it opens the way it is shown on this diagram, does it?"

Reply "Yes, it opens to, back onto that wall".

4078 "But you didn't touch the door?"

Reply "No".

4078 "You didn't need to because it was already open?"

Reply "It was already open. I mean, it must have been, it must have been sort of at that sort of angle, so it's just over forty-five degrees".

4078 "Yeah, so it is slightly over half open?"

Reply "Yeah".

by suzyjohnson 17.10.13 11:32

Smokeandmirrors wrote:Because the state of the door is totally unproveable, due to a herd of Tapas munchers rampaging through a crime scene before the police were called, they can go on about it all they like but it has no bearing on anything. It does imply that it is an attempt to add "flesh to the bones" of a story.

It is the addition of minuscule points that haver no bearing on anything that are red flags here, yet the airbrushing out of Mrs Fenns statement and shrugging off the following "why didn't you come when we were crying" as simply "she moved on" (insert weird gurning facial expression) would indicate this is what is VERY important.

It is also VERY noteworthy that David Payne / Kate dismissed social worker Yvonne Martin who dashed to the scene the next day to help, and to whom Kate said Madeleine was taken by a couple. Additionally it is very interesting that Yvonne Martin recognised David Payne from her work in child protection when added to the Gaspar statements. The omission of these things in "official" accounting of the story is vitally important IMO.

I see what you mean. The relevance of all the points regarding the door though is that if there wasn't, after all, an abductor in the flat prior to 9.30 pm, and if the McCanns are certain the door was further open than they left it, then the only person who could be leaving doors half open in the apartment would be Madeleine herself. In other words, she wouldn't have been asleep from 9 pm onwards.

The McCanns have used the half-open door story to support their 9.15 pm abduction theory, what can be made of this now that 9.15 pm abduction has been discounted by the police?

by suzyjohnson 17.10.13 11:49

GM's statement 7/9/07

'he recalls that this was around 21:04 according to his watch. He remembers that once inside the apartment he was surprised that the door to the children's room was slightly more open than how he had left it when he and Kate left for dinner. However, it could have been Madeleine who had opened the door after waking and getting up, eventually to go to her parents’ room'.

by Smokeandmirrors 17.10.13 12:16

suzyjohnson wrote:
Smokeandmirrors wrote:Because the state of the door is totally unproveable, due to a herd of Tapas munchers rampaging through a crime scene before the police were called, they can go on about it all they like but it has no bearing on anything. It does imply that it is an attempt to add "flesh to the bones" of a story.

It is the addition of minuscule points that haver no bearing on anything that are red flags here, yet the airbrushing out of Mrs Fenns statement and shrugging off the following "why didn't you come when we were crying" as simply "she moved on" (insert weird gurning facial expression) would indicate this is what is VERY important.

It is also VERY noteworthy that David Payne / Kate dismissed social worker Yvonne Martin who dashed to the scene the next day to help, and to whom Kate said Madeleine was taken by a couple. Additionally it is very interesting that Yvonne Martin recognised David Payne from her work in child protection when added to the Gaspar statements. The omission of these things in "official" accounting of the story is vitally important IMO.
I see what you mean. The relevance of all the points regarding the door though is that if there wasn't, after all, an abductor in the flat prior to 9.30 pm, and if the McCanns are certain the door was further open than they left it, then the only person who could be leaving doors half open in the apartment would be Madeleine herself. In other words, she wouldn't have been asleep from 9 pm onwards.

The McCanns have used the half-open door story to support their 9.15 pm abduction theory, what can be made of this now that 9.15 pm abduction has been discounted by the police?

Exactly. The police KNOW that this is all superfluous waffle to make their version sound credible, now they've put a spanner in the works discounting the earlier sighting. If the McCanns keep going on about doors moving a few centimetres here and there, IGNORING they SY dismissal of the 9-15 Tannerman, but just rattling it off parrot fashion, they are going to make themselves sound even more stupid than they already do. They will be confirming that it is all bullshit.

by worriedmum 17.10.13 12:31

Why did they never assume it was the same draught that whooshed the curtains that could also move the door?

by Smokeandmirrors 17.10.13 12:35

worriedmum wrote:Why did they never assume it was the same draught that whooshed the curtains that could also move the door?

Because they needed doors moving around to support

a) that they were checking
b) Swarthy, blond, barechested/swimming trunks, George Harrison, eggman, Victoria Beckham lookalike, and about 35 other suspects/persons of interest where in and out of that apartment non-stop without being seen playing a riveting game of "Move The Door", narrowly avoiding the numerous yo-yoings of the Tapas mob.

by russiandoll 17.10.13 12:40

A statement from a tapas person that it was half open as usual : no it was not. Both CW and importantly Kates book describe it being only slightly ajar at 8.30.
In the book it must have been open a lot wider, as G noticed it at once...immediately upon entering 5a at his 9.05 check.

I have posted this on the CW discussion topic, concluding that this is the trap....a trap door !

Kate in her book....

1. G immediately noticed door opened wider than they had left it.

2, checked own room, M not there.

3. checked children's room, M in EXACTLY same position as they had left her. so not got up and opened door, returning to bed leaving door open.

4. twins in cots...who could not have opened the door.

and then it is closed over, open wider... a right tangle.

My first post here 2 years ago was prompted by the was Maddie crying at baththime from Kate.

Next was this door and all the over-egging of the pudding........part of an embroidery of lies.

by russiandoll 17.10.13 12:41

worriedmum wrote:Why did they never assume it was the same draught that whooshed the curtains that could also move the door?

because they had said the door moved in the opposite direction with the gust of wind...it slammed shut.

by worriedmum 17.10.13 12:47

but wasn't that when the window was open?

Shouldn't the same principle apply to a patio door blowing a draught from the other direction, so not slamming it shut, but pushing it open further?

BTW
Did anyone else pick up , sometime after the CW programme, Kate saying(in an interview? Sorry, it was a late night wasn't it,)that she thought she might have heard a door shutting behind her?

by suzyjohnson 17.10.13 13:37

worriedmum, I thought I'd read that in a newspaper reoprt, Kate might have only just missed seeing the abductor kind of thing, a bit too dramatic, I don't know whether Kate herself actually said this