Re: Kates CLEAR memory of what happened night 030507 - Truth of her lie

by Guest 11.05.13 12:55

In the bewk she states "On Madaleine's bed, the top right hand corners of the covers were still turned over, forming a triangle" she doesn't mention this in the vid

Why would she say this? Has she ever mentioned putting Madeleine to bed and tucking her in, or mention that she fell asleep on top of the covers? imo Madeleine was never in her bed that evening.

by **PeterMac** 11.05.13 13:40

What was the weather on the evening of Thursday 3rd May 2007.

We examine an interesting anomaly.

On Thursday 3rd May 2007 Madeleine and the twins are prepared for bed.
p. 68 “I took them all into their bedroom. Madeleine got into her bed and then Amelie, Sean and I settled ourselves on top of it, with our backs against the wall, for our final story.” [1]
Madeleine is now in bed.

p. 69 Then we kissed the twins, and kissed Madeleine, already snuggled down with her ‘princess’ blanket and Cuddle Cat – a soft toy she’d been given soon after she was born and never went to bed without. [2]
Madeleine is not only in bed, but “snuggled down” This carries a very recognisable connotation in English. Snuggle - To settle or move into a warm comfortable position. You can snuggle into something, or under something. The connotation implies a nest, and all enveloping warmth. The word “nestle” is given in the OED as a definition.
But a short time later
p. 70 “Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch . . .
Madeleine was lying there, on her left-hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position as we'd left her." [3]

Now Madeleine is reported to be on top of the bed, with only her legs covered, and it is said that this is how she had been left. But this contradicts the clear use of the expressions in bed and snuggled down. Lying on top of the bed with only the feet under neatly folded-back bedclothes cannot be described as “snuggled”, nor yet as “in bed”. Normal English usage permits “on top of the bedclothes”.

From Gerry McCann’s statement to police, on 10th May, 2007:
'Concerning the bed where his daughter was on the night she disappeared, he says that she slept uncovered, as usual when it was hot, with the bedclothes folded down'. [4]
But was it hot, as Gerry clearly insists ? The word used is hot, not “warm enough to sleep with only a light cover, or on top of the bedclothes”.

Kate McCann is very clear that outside, the weather was cold.
p. 73 “It was so cold and so windy.” [5]

Jane Tanner is equally insistent
JT: . . . and I just thought that child's not got any shoes on because you could see the feet, and it was quite a cold night in Portugal in May it's not actually that warm, and I'd got a big jumper on, and I can remember thinking oh that parent is not a particularly good parent, they've not wrapped them up.
Richard Bilton Could you tell . . .?
JT: . . . It was actually quite cold. [6]
and again
“Yeah, and there were some people inside because it was quite chilly by, by this, it was actually quite, quite cold”.
and again
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces,
and again
I’d got Russell’s big jumper on, cropped trousers and flip-flips and, yeah, it was quite, you know, sort of cold”
and again
4078    “. . . at that time, didn’t really think anything of it other than the child might have cold feet?”
Reply    “Yeah, and just”.
and yet again
4078    “So you went on the wrong day.”
Reply    “Yeah, I think err so it wasn’t, that’s one reason why we didn’t open the shutters to open the window or anything in that room, it wasn’t actually really hot at all, it was actually quite cloudy in the days and at night it was actually quite chilly.” [7]
Russell O’Brien : The nights were quite chilly [8]
Matthew Oldfield in the evenings it was very cold, [9]
Rachel Oldfield it was really cold in the evenings [10]
David Payne it was quite cold some nights and you know perhaps nearly too cold to be sat outside [11]
Fiona Payne it was still very cold [12]
Diane Webster when they were brought up to our apartment and they would have to come out into the cold [13]

Only one person in the entire group of 9 adults insists that the weather was hot enough for Madeleine to have been put to bed lying on top of the bedclothes.
Every one of the other eight adults say it was cold, in many cases they lay emphasis on the extra clothing they themselves were wearing.
Only Gerry McCann disagrees.
The weather report for that day is that at 9 pm, 3 May 2007 the temperature recorded at Faro airport was 57º F, 14º C [14]

What reason does Gerry McCann have for insisting it was hot ?

References.

1 “madeleine” by Kate McCann, Bantam Press, 2011, p.68

2 “madeleine” op. cit. p.69

3 “madeleine” op. cit. p. 70

4 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta2

5 “madeleine” op. cit. p. 73

6 Panorama documentary, The Mystery of Madeleine McCann, 19 November 2007 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

7 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id222.html

8 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id221.html

9 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id219.html

10 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id253.html

11 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html

12 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id252.html

13 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id254.html

14 http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/LPFR/2007/3/3/DailyHistory.html?
req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA&MR=1

by Guest 11.05.13 13:54

Thanks for all that PeterMac, lots of information there going to read it through again.

by Guest 11.05.13 14:58

Cherry Blossom wrote:In the bewk she states "On Madaleine's bed, the top right hand corners of the covers were still turned over, forming a triangle" she doesn't mention this in the vid

Why would she say this? Has she ever mentioned putting Madeleine to bed and tucking her in, or mention that she fell asleep on top of the covers? imo Madeleine was never in her bed that evening.

She suggets she put little Maddie into her bed, covering her, and then going on to sit on top of her, with the rest of the family (GM excluded) singing from a songbook.

Quite a feat to leave the bed unruffled under these circumstances, wouldn't you agree?

by **PeterMac** 11.05.13 15:00

Here are the Appendices, so stop you haveing to trawl through the book and mccannfiles.com

Appendices

1 I took them all into their bedroom. Madeleine got into her bed and then Amelie, Sean and I settled ourselves on top of it, with our backs against the wall, for our final story, If you’re happy and you know it!, another present to Madeleine, this one from Great-Auntie Janet and Great-Uncle Brian. If you’re happy and you know it, clap your hands! says the monkey. Stamp your feet! says the elephant.

2 Gerry came through to say goodnight. We helped Sean and Amelie give their big sister a ‘night-night’ kiss before laying them in their adjacent travel cots. Then we kissed the twins, and kissed Madeleine, already snuggled down with her ‘princess’ blanket and Cuddle Cat – a soft toy she’d been given soon after she was born and never went to bed without. We were in no doubt that all three would be asleep in an instant. As always, we left the door a few inches open to allow a glimmer of light into the room.

3 After ordering his food, Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch. He entered the apartment via the patio doors and noticed almost immediately that the children’s bedroom door was further ajar than it had been. He glanced into our room to make sure Madeleine hadn’t wandered in there, as she was prone to do if ever she woke in the small hours. Seeing no little body curled up in our bed, he went over to look in on the children.
Madeleine was lying there, on her left-hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position as we’d left her. For Gerry, this became one of those images I described earlier, pictures that fix themselves indelibly, almost photographically, in the memory. He paused for a couple of seconds to look at Madeleine and thought to himself, She’s so beautiful. After pulling the bedroom door to, restoring it to its original angle, he went to the bathroom before leaving the apartment.

4 Concerning the bed where his daughter was on the night she disappeared, he says that she slept uncovered, as usual when it was hot, with the bedclothes folded down. Concerning the other bed next to the window in the children's bedroom, he says that it showed no signs that anyone had put their feet on it, namely, dirt or shoe prints.

5 I ran out into the car park, flying from end to end, yelling desperately, ‘Madeleine! Madeleine!’ It was so cold and so windy. I kept picturing her in her short-sleeved Marks and Spencer Eeyore pyjamas and feeling how chilled she would be. Bizarrely, I found myself thinking it would have been better if she’d been wearing her long-sleeved Barbie ones. Fear was shearing through my body.

6 RB: Describe exactly what he's carrying, what you can see.
JT: Well I could see.. I could tell it was a child, and I could see the feet and... feet and the bottom of the pyjamas, and I just thought that child's not got any shoes on because you could see the feet, and it was quite a cold night in Portugal in May it's not actually that warm, and I'd got a big jumper on, and I can remember thinking oh that parent is not a particularly good parent, they've not wrapped them up.

RB: And could you tell if it was a boy or a girl?

JT: Only because the pyjamas had a pinky aspect to them so you presume a girl. It was actually quite cold.

7 Jane Tanner - Record Of Tape Recorded Interview

4078    “What was the weather like when you were there?”
Reply    “It wasn’t, again it wasn’t brilliant, I think it was nicer in the UK.”
4078    “So you went on the wrong day.”
Reply    “Yeah, I think err so it wasn’t, that’s one reason why we didn’t open the shutters to open the window or anything in that room, it wasn’t actually really hot at all, it was actually quite cloudy in the days and at night it was actually quite chilly.”
4078    “So it wasn’t sort of going in the pool weather or, only if you’re very brave.”
Reply    “No it was really, really cold, I mean I think Russell went in because he’s a nutter and goes in the Atlantic in February but no it was more, after, it got warmer after so we did go in the pool after May the third but no before that I don’t think we, maybe we’d been in once and then decided it was a bad idea.”
* * *
4078    “Can you just write ‘bar area’ on that because I’ll forget”.
Reply    “Yeah, and there were some people inside because it was quite chilly by, by this, it was actually quite, quite cold”.
* * *
4078    “But just do the best you can”.
Reply    “Yeah. Erm, I’m just trying to, well I’ve walked out of the, walked out of the, erm, the Tap, you know, walked sort of into the reception of the Tapas Bar and obviously walked up the road. I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces, so I’d got a big sort of fleece, it probably came down to about here, but then I’d got flip-flops on and cropped trousers, because I’d only got, I didn’t take jeans, I know I didn’t take jeans on holiday, and then.
* * *
Reply    “Yeah, that is, erm, and I think at that point I did think as well, the way they were dressed wasn’t quite touristy. As I say, I mean, I looked a right state because I’d got Russell’s big jumper on, cropped trousers and flip-flips and, yeah, it was quite, you know, sort of cold and, and they looked more like they were prepared for the weather, you know, sort of thing.
* * *
4078    “Okay. So you have glimpsed, you know, turned back and see the man disappearing off down the road with the child and, at that time, didn’t really think anything of it other than the child might have cold feet?”
Reply    “Yeah, and just”.
4078    “And later on did you think it was significant?”
Reply    “It was a, yeah, it was sort of came as soon as, as soon as they said that came, buff, straight. As soon as I’d seen it there it was forgotten and then, buff, as soon as Rachael said”.

8 Russell O’Brien - Record Of Tape Recorded Interview
On the evening I was wearing brown jeans/cord style trousers, a pale blue stripe top, and Jane had taken my jumper which was blue. The nights were quite chilly which is why Jane had my jumper I am quite used to the cold.

9 Matthew OLDFIELD - Record Of Tape Recorded Interview
4078 "What was the weather like during the week?"

Reply "Erm, it was sunny but cold, the pools were freezing, so we didn't, even though the pool was there, it was unusual for people to be in it. Erm, sunny most days, it got cloudy and it rained on the Wednesday and the Wednesday evening was pretty sort of, in the evenings it was very cold, so at the Tapas Restaurant, when we were there, we'd often, you know, you'd need a jumper if you sat outside and there was no heat particularly, erm, and I think Thursday was sort of fairly similar and quite, well certainly at night and I think the rest had been sort of maybe a little bit overcast at times but I'm not really bothered about the sunbathing and if there was a wind you could go sailing and that was".

10 Rachel Oldfield - Record Of Tape Recorded Interview
1578   “What about when you were eating at the table”?
Reply   “Yeah I had all that on as well, it was really cold in the evenings, you didn’t take”.
1578   “Chilly evening”.
Reply   “Didn’t take enough warm things, so it was like the, all the jumpers that we had yeah”.

11 David Payne - Record Of Tape Recorded Interview
1485   ”And conversation? Because I understand it was cold, rainy on a couple of days.”
Reply   ”Mm, mm, yes. I mean from the, you know from the, yeah it was quite cold some nights and you know perhaps nearly too cold to be sat outside err but there was certainly nothing that you know led me to any concern during that week err

12 Fiona Payne - Record Of Tape Recorded Interview
1485   “Can you remember what sort of time that was roughly?”
Reply   “Erm it was still very cold and, and dark, erm I think it was you know, between five and six, I say, I say, I think we’d, we’d, we’d just dozed off, so erm it was still very early.

13 Diane Webster - Record Of Tape Recorded Interview
4078   ”But with all your experience of small children, you thought that was odd that they had not woken?”
Reply   ”Oh yeah definitely. Well even err the noise that was going on in the apartment and they slept through it all.”
4078   ”Mm.”
Reply   ”They were taken from their cots when they were brought up to our apartment and they would have to come out into the cold and I would have err I would have expected some sort of awakening.”

by Guest 11.05.13 15:05

PeterMac wrote:

What was the weather on the evening of Thursday 3rd May 2007.

We examine an interesting anomaly.

On Thursday 3rd May 2007 Madeleine and the twins are prepared for bed.
p. 68 “I took them all into their bedroom. Madeleine got into her bed and then Amelie, Sean and I settled ourselves on top of it, with our backs against the wall, for our final story.” [1]
Madeleine is now in bed.

p. 69 Then we kissed the twins, and kissed Madeleine, already snuggled down with her ‘princess’ blanket and Cuddle Cat – a soft toy she’d been given soon after she was born and never went to bed without. [2]
Madeleine is not only in bed, but “snuggled down” This carries a very recognisable connotation in English. Snuggle - To settle or move into a warm comfortable position. You can snuggle into something, or under something. The connotation implies a nest, and all enveloping warmth. The word “nestle” is given in the OED as a definition.
But a short time later
p. 70 “Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch . . .
Madeleine was lying there, on her left-hand side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position as we'd left her." [3]

Now Madeleine is reported to be on top of the bed, with only her legs covered, and it is said that this is how she had been left. But this contradicts the clear use of the expressions in bed and snuggled down. Lying on top of the bed with only the feet under neatly folded-back bedclothes cannot be described as “snuggled”, nor yet as “in bed”. Normal English usage permits “on top of the bedclothes”.

From Gerry McCann’s statement to police, on 10th May, 2007:
'Concerning the bed where his daughter was on the night she disappeared, he says that she slept uncovered, as usual when it was hot, with the bedclothes folded down'. [4]
But was it hot, as Gerry clearly insists ? The word used is hot, not “warm enough to sleep with only a light cover, or on top of the bedclothes”.

Kate McCann is very clear that outside, the weather was cold.
p. 73 “It was so cold and so windy.” [5]

Jane Tanner is equally insistent
JT: . . . and I just thought that child's not got any shoes on because you could see the feet, and it was quite a cold night in Portugal in May it's not actually that warm, and I'd got a big jumper on, and I can remember thinking oh that parent is not a particularly good parent, they've not wrapped them up.
Richard Bilton Could you tell . . .?
JT: . . . It was actually quite cold. [6]
and again
“Yeah, and there were some people inside because it was quite chilly by, by this, it was actually quite, quite cold”.
and again
I remember I was wearing, because it was cold, I’d got Russell’s big, I’d borrowed one of his, erm, fleeces,
and again
I’d got Russell’s big jumper on, cropped trousers and flip-flips and, yeah, it was quite, you know, sort of cold”
and again
4078 “. . . at that time, didn’t really think anything of it other than the child might have cold feet?”
Reply “Yeah, and just”.
and yet again
4078 “So you went on the wrong day.”
Reply “Yeah, I think err so it wasn’t, that’s one reason why we didn’t open the shutters to open the window or anything in that room, it wasn’t actually really hot at all, it was actually quite cloudy in the days and at night it was actually quite chilly.” [7]
Russell O’Brien : The nights were quite chilly [8]
Matthew Oldfield in the evenings it was very cold, [9]
Rachel Oldfield it was really cold in the evenings [10]
David Payne it was quite cold some nights and you know perhaps nearly too cold to be sat outside [11]
Fiona Payne it was still very cold [12]
Diane Webster when they were brought up to our apartment and they would have to come out into the cold [13]

Only one person in the entire group of 9 adults insists that the weather was hot enough for Madeleine to have been put to bed lying on top of the bedclothes.
Every one of the other eight adults say it was cold, in many cases they lay emphasis on the extra clothing they themselves were wearing.
Only Gerry McCann disagrees.
The weather report for that day is that at 9 pm, 3 May 2007 the temperature recorded at Faro airport was 57º F, 14º C [14]

What reason does Gerry McCann have for insisting it was hot ?

References.

1 “madeleine” by Kate McCann, Bantam Press, 2011, p.68

2 “madeleine” op. cit. p.69

3 “madeleine” op. cit. p. 70

4 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id192.html#sta2

5 “madeleine” op. cit. p. 73

6 Panorama documentary, The Mystery of Madeleine McCann, 19 November 2007 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html

7 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id222.html

8 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id221.html

9 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id219.html

10 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id253.html

11 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html

12 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id252.html

13 http://www.mccannfiles.com/id254.html

14 http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/LPFR/2007/3/3/DailyHistory.html?
req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA&MR=1

What reason?

In their haste they forgot to ruffle Maddies bedclothes to fit KH's story of her et al sitting on top of Maddie.

So, in order to paper over that inconsistency, they had to invent yet another, the heat.

Little did they know or expect that too would come back to haunt them and expose the second lie for what it is: a lie.

by Guest 11.05.13 16:08

They surely couldn't imagine that the PJ would release a big part of their investigation files, that there would be an army of pro-Madeleine people from all nationalities, ages and professions, who'd pursue this case and analyse and compare each & every story detail coming from the horses' mouths [and all wonder if they'd still would have been here, had they known that it would 6+ years to solve ...].

by **PeterMac** 11.05.13 18:09

They forgot to ruffle the bedclothes, and pull them right back
They forgot to damage the shutters
They forgot to open, or to close, the curtains
They forgot to scratch the window ledge
They forgot to stomp around on the bed under the window
They forgot to push the wicker chair out of the way
They forgot to drop cuddle cat on the floor
They forgot to spread some chloroform around
They forgot to tell JT to report her sighting at 10 o'clock, not 9
They forgot to agree whether Kate signed M out of the creche at 5:30, or whether she got back from her run to find them all at tea
They forgot . . . almost everything.

It is a very poor script.

by **tigger** 11.05.13 18:26

PeterMac wrote:They forgot to ruffle the bedclothes, and pull them right back
They forgot to damage the shutters
They forgot to open, or to close, the curtains
They forgot to scratch the window ledge
They forgot to stomp around on the bed under the window
They forgot to push the wicker chair out of the way
They forgot to drop cuddle cat on the floor
They forgot to spread some chloroform around
They forgot to tell JT to report her sighting at 10 o'clock, not 9
They forgot to agree whether Kate signed M out of the creche at 5:30, or whether she got back from her run to find them all at tea
They forgot . . . almost everything.

It is a very poor script.

Needed a re-write.. winkwink

preferably by someone with experience in documentary dramas. No good saying 'I walked in - had a quick look and she wasn't there.'
We need:
a beautiful woman (not drunk)
a puzzled look at the door (a merest hint of a creaking door) start of ominous music, low key.
a tentative opening of the door - close-up of wide eyed face with hint of worry
the heavy, dark feel of the interior (music building slowly up in the background)
the leaning in and again the dark, the music building further (I'd quite like Siegfried's funeral march - those opening ominous drum beats)
a two second pause - camera on dark opening with profile right
then WHOOSH! (tutti - massive opening chord by whole orchestra) curtains flying, open window and the empty bed with toys still on it.
Scream on high C .... then : goodness me, that part needs re-writing as well.

by jozi 11.05.13 20:35

PeterMac wrote:They forgot to ruffle the bedclothes, and pull them right back
They forgot to damage the shutters
They forgot to open, or to close, the curtains
They forgot to scratch the window ledge
They forgot to stomp around on the bed under the window
They forgot to push the wicker chair out of the way
They forgot to drop cuddle cat on the floor
They forgot to spread some chloroform around
They forgot to tell JT to report her sighting at 10 o'clock, not 9
They forgot to agree whether Kate signed M out of the creche at 5:30, or whether she got back from her run to find them all at tea
They forgot . . . almost everything.

It is a very poor script.

Very poor script but why are they still getting away with it , if you remember Mick Phillpot was hauled in for inconsistencies in their script .and acting strange. The McCanns have acted strange from day one and are still doing it and getting away. When will SY be questioning them about this bad script ?

by Guest 11.05.13 21:32

I think I can safely say that, in all other cases, where persons of interest start acting strangely and coming up with conflicting stories, they get hauled in and usually charged. Why the McCanns have been treated so differently is a mystery - if it's okay to use that word!

It's the 1st anniversary today of the fire that killed the Philpott children, poor little souls.

by Guest 11.05.13 22:09

tigger wrote:
PeterMac wrote:They forgot to ruffle the bedclothes, and pull them right back
They forgot to damage the shutters
They forgot to open, or to close, the curtains
They forgot to scratch the window ledge
They forgot to stomp around on the bed under the window
They forgot to push the wicker chair out of the way
They forgot to drop cuddle cat on the floor
They forgot to spread some chloroform around
They forgot to tell JT to report her sighting at 10 o'clock, not 9
They forgot to agree whether Kate signed M out of the creche at 5:30, or whether she got back from her run to find them all at tea
They forgot . . . almost everything.

It is a very poor script.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Needed a re-write.. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] preferably by someone with experience in documentary dramas. No good saying 'I walked in - had a quick look and she wasn't there.'
We need:
a beautiful woman (not drunk)
a puzzled look at the door (a merest hint of a creaking door) start of ominous music, low key.
a tentative opening of the door - close-up of wide eyed face with hint of worry
the heavy, dark feel of the interior (music building slowly up in the background)
the leaning in and again the dark, the music building further (I'd quite like Siegfried's funeral march - those opening ominous drum beats)
a two second pause - camera on dark opening with profile right
then WHOOSH! (tutti - massive opening chord by whole orchestra) curtains flying, open window and the empty bed with toys still on it.
Scream on high C .... then : goodness me, that part needs re-writing as well.

by aiyoyo 12.05.13 8:32

jozi wrote:
PeterMac wrote:They forgot to ruffle the bedclothes, and pull them right back
They forgot to damage the shutters
They forgot to open, or to close, the curtains
They forgot to scratch the window ledge
They forgot to stomp around on the bed under the window
They forgot to push the wicker chair out of the way
They forgot to drop cuddle cat on the floor
They forgot to spread some chloroform around
They forgot to tell JT to report her sighting at 10 o'clock, not 9
They forgot to agree whether Kate signed M out of the creche at 5:30, or whether she got back from her run to find them all at tea
They forgot . . . almost everything.

It is a very poor script.

Very poor script but why are they still getting away with it , if you remember Mick Phillpot was hauled in for inconsistencies in their script .and acting strange. The McCanns have acted strange from day one and are still doing it and getting away. When will SY be questioning them about this bad script ?

Mick Philpot is a low IQ scumbag without the support of a Government transferred media control PR man, without people's money to hire the most expensive lawyers in the land, and without a dr degree or clout to impress people or to pull strings with the influential.
And his wife is not bottled blond, flat-chested aneroxic species dolled up and adept at appearance on TV sofas speaking in breathless voice while thigh groping and rolling eyes sighing at the same time and looking helpless trying to act like a puppy while she lies through as many teeth in her mouth and able to get away with it.

Mr & Mrs are like those fallen celebrities in the limelight now...their high profile and money played to their advantage...but in the end even a well-known reputation and money isn't enough when the tide changes.

by Angelique 12.05.13 8:57

PeterMac

Was JT talking about 5a when she said:

"Reply “Yeah, I think err so it wasn’t, that’s one reason why we didn’t open the shutters to open the window or anything in that room, it wasn’t actually really hot at all, it was actually quite cloudy in the days and at night it was actually quite chilly.” [7]"

If so why - why was there a collective decision about this room?

by **PeterMac** 12.05.13 9:43

No. She was talking about her own apartment.
But they adopted the same solution to the problem of the cold, keep the windows shut and the shutters down.
click on
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Angelique 12.05.13 9:47

PeterMac

Thanks for clarifying that. I thought maybe JT had slipped up which is what I think all the detail stuff is all about.

by Monty Heck 12.05.13 12:20

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Cristobell on Fri May 10, 2013 3:14 pm

The only thing that tipped Kate off was the door being slightly further ajar than they had left it. This means that if the abductor entered through the patio doors as now claimed, he would have closed the outside gate behind him, and also closed the patio doors and the curtains, as Kate makes no reference to the gate, the patio doors or indeed, even the front door being open.

Having been burgled in the past, I can state quite categorically that the burglars made no attempt whatsoever to tidy up or close doors behind them. Criminals go in grab their booty and get away asap.

Spot on, intruders tend not to waste time closing doors, curtains, gates benind them when entering/exiting premises, or indeed opening windows & shutters as a red herring. Conversely KMcC cited the closed doors, curtains and stair gates as cast iron evidence that M had not woken and wandered out of the apartment, stating no child of that age would have been capable of doing so, yet is unable to extend this logic to the abductor.

A person who, on arriving at their lodgings to find their child missing, quickly discounts that the child could have wandered off for the reasons she gave would also be capable of drawing the conclusion that the putative stranger who took their child would not take time to fuss about with curtains, doors or gates while carrying a prone child. Having thus dismissed both possibilities logic would prompt such a person to at least ponder whether one of their party with knowledge that the children were alone in unlocked premises could possibly be culpable and demanded close investigation of the entire group. But not in this case. In this case the McCs have always had unshakeable faith in the innocence of their entire party with absolutely no basis whatever, and unshakable belief that a stranger took their child, tidying up on the way out.

For me, this is one of the fundamental reasons for doubting the "official" line. In the midst of grief, shock, fear for the child's welfare, blind panic there has been nothing but a calm certainty that NONE of the group were involved. Even though one was apparently next door to the child in the unlocked apartment for quite some time and another had been in the apartment itself the thought either never entered their heads or if it did, was quickly dismissed. WHY? That behaviour is so abnormal it is completely off the scale and, IMO extremely suspect.

by Nina 12.05.13 12:40

Monty Heck wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Cristobell on Fri May 10, 2013 3:14 pm

The only thing that tipped Kate off was the door being slightly further ajar than they had left it. This means that if the abductor entered through the patio doors as now claimed, he would have closed the outside gate behind him, and also closed the patio doors and the curtains, as Kate makes no reference to the gate, the patio doors or indeed, even the front door being open.

Having been burgled in the past, I can state quite categorically that the burglars made no attempt whatsoever to tidy up or close doors behind them. Criminals go in grab their booty and get away asap.

Spot on, intruders tend not to waste time closing doors, curtains, gates benind them when entering/exiting premises, or indeed opening windows & shutters as a red herring. Conversely KMcC cited the closed doors, curtains and stair gates as cast iron evidence that M had not woken and wandered out of the apartment, stating no child of that age would have been capable of doing so, yet is unable to extend this logic to the abductor.

A person who, on arriving at their lodgings to find their child missing, quickly discounts that the child could have wandered off for the reasons she gave would also be capable of drawing the conclusion that the putative stranger who took their child would not take time to fuss about with curtains, doors or gates while carrying a prone child. Having thus dismissed both possibilities logic would prompt such a person to at least ponder whether one of their party with knowledge that the children were alone in unlocked premises could possibly be culpable and demanded close investigation of the entire group. But not in this case. In this case the McCs have always had unshakeable faith in the innocence of their entire party with absolutely no basis whatever, and unshakable belief that a stranger took their child, tidying up on the way out.

For me, this is one of the fundamental reasons for doubting the "official" line. In the midst of grief, shock, fear for the child's welfare, blind panic there has been nothing but a calm certainty that NONE of the group were involved. Even though one was apparently next door to the child in the unlocked apartment for quite some time and another had been in the apartment itself the thought either never entered their heads or if it did, was quickly dismissed. WHY? That behaviour is so abnormal it is completely off the scale and, IMO extremely suspect.

Good post. So taking this a step further then the supposed abductor must have gone in and gone out of the wooden door, that cannot be opened from the outside even if not double locked as there isn't a handle to turn on the outside of the door. And he/she must have gone out of it with Madeline's head over his/her left forearm so would need to turn around to face the door to close it with right hand, the top half of the body being heavier than the legs, as this door was also closed when Kate did her check.

by Monty Heck 12.05.13 13:06

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Today at 11:40 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Good post. So taking this a step further then the supposed abductor must have gone in and gone out of the wooden door, that cannot be opened from the outside even if not double locked as there isn't a handle to turn on the outside of the door. And he/she must have gone out of it with Madeline's head over his/her left forearm so would need to turn around to face the door to close it with right hand, the top half of the body being heavier than the legs, as this door was also closed when Kate did her check.

Exactly. The lack of logic in this tale shines out like a beacon in the dark. Why the unshakeable belief in this so called stranger abduction when there is no evidence of or even logic in his supposed entry or exit, or the way he allegedly carried the child like a trophy for all the world to see, including her father who was standing nearby! Even if they did initially believe in a stranger abduction, it would have been entirely normal to have had suspicions about their friends also. When running through possible scenarios, it is normal to consider then dismiss any which are patently impossible such as KMcC's assertion that M could not have exited the apartment alone as the evidence of the closed curtains, patio doors and stair gates spoke against that scenario.

To have had no suspicions whatever, not even a niggle regarding the group is, to use a McCannism, absolutely ludicrous. Members of this group had knowledge that the children were alone and had means of access; many were absent during the course of the evening at various times when the couple had no idea what they were doing. Some of them were mere acquaintances of the McCs, so it is completly illogical NOT to raise any questions regarding them, even if only for peace of mind that they were not involved. Completely abnormal behaviour in those circumstances when any sane person would be saying "to hell with my friends' feelings, my child is missing and I demand they are thorougly checked out!"

by Newintown 12.05.13 13:54

Monty Heck wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Today at 11:40 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Good post. So taking this a step further then the supposed abductor must have gone in and gone out of the wooden door, that cannot be opened from the outside even if not double locked as there isn't a handle to turn on the outside of the door. And he/she must have gone out of it with Madeline's head over his/her left forearm so would need to turn around to face the door to close it with right hand, the top half of the body being heavier than the legs, as this door was also closed when Kate did her check.

Exactly. The lack of logic in this tale shines out like a beacon in the dark. Why the unshakeable belief in this so called stranger abduction when there is no evidence of or even logic in his supposed entry or exit, or the way he allegedly carried the child like a trophy for all the world to see, including her father who was standing nearby! Even if they did initially believe in a stranger abduction, it would have been entirely normal to have had suspicions about their friends also. When running through possible scenarios, it is normal to consider then dismiss any which are patently impossible such as KMcC's assertion that M could not have exited the apartment alone as the evidence of the closed curtains, patio doors and stair gates spoke against that scenario.

To have had no suspicions whatever, not even a niggle regarding the group is, to use a McCannism, absolutely ludicrous. Members of this group had knowledge that the children were alone and had means of access; many were absent during the course of the evening at various times when the couple had no idea what they were doing. Some of them were mere acquaintances of the McCs, so it is completly illogical NOT to raise any questions regarding them, even if only for peace of mind that they were not involved. Completely abnormal behaviour in those circumstances when any sane person would be saying "to hell with my friends' feelings, my child is missing and I demand they are thorougly checked out!"

That assertion from Kate McCann also indicates that the abductor (if he went through the patio doors) shut the gate at the bottom of the stairs, shut the gate at the top of the stairs, shut the patio doors, shut the curtains before entering the bedroom to snatch Madeleine. What a tidy, fastidious abductor he was, to go to all that trouble when he only had a matter of a few minutes. He then presumably, if he went through the front door (car park entrance) with Madeleine - he obviously didn't use the window as Kate said that was a red herring - put the door key back on the kitchen work surface, isn't that where GA or the PJ found it?

Maybe that's why the PJ didn't believe the abductor nonsense, I dont blame them.

by plebgate 12.05.13 14:03

Exactly Monty Heck, exactly especially as not all of them were old friends. Trust no-one with your children and suspect anyone who had access to them should a child going missing.

by Nina 12.05.13 14:06

Newintown wrote:
Monty Heck wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Today at 11:40 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Good post. So taking this a step further then the supposed abductor must have gone in and gone out of the wooden door, that cannot be opened from the outside even if not double locked as there isn't a handle to turn on the outside of the door. And he/she must have gone out of it with Madeline's head over his/her left forearm so would need to turn around to face the door to close it with right hand, the top half of the body being heavier than the legs, as this door was also closed when Kate did her check.

Exactly. The lack of logic in this tale shines out like a beacon in the dark. Why the unshakeable belief in this so called stranger abduction when there is no evidence of or even logic in his supposed entry or exit, or the way he allegedly carried the child like a trophy for all the world to see, including her father who was standing nearby! Even if they did initially believe in a stranger abduction, it would have been entirely normal to have had suspicions about their friends also. When running through possible scenarios, it is normal to consider then dismiss any which are patently impossible such as KMcC's assertion that M could not have exited the apartment alone as the evidence of the closed curtains, patio doors and stair gates spoke against that scenario.

To have had no suspicions whatever, not even a niggle regarding the group is, to use a McCannism, absolutely ludicrous. Members of this group had knowledge that the children were alone and had means of access; many were absent during the course of the evening at various times when the couple had no idea what they were doing. Some of them were mere acquaintances of the McCs, so it is completly illogical NOT to raise any questions regarding them, even if only for peace of mind that they were not involved. Completely abnormal behaviour in those circumstances when any sane person would be saying "to hell with my friends' feelings, my child is missing and I demand they are thorougly checked out!"

That assertion from Kate McCann also indicates that the abductor (if he went through the patio doors) shut the gate at the bottom of the stairs, shut the gate at the top of the stairs, shut the patio doors, shut the curtains before entering the bedroom to snatch Madeleine. What a tidy, fastidious abductor he was, to go to all that trouble when he only had a matter of a few minutes. He then presumably, if he went through the front door (car park entrance) with Madeleine - he obviously didn't use the window as Kate said that was a red herring - put the door key back on the kitchen work surface, isn't that where GA or the PJ found it?

Maybe that's why the PJ didn't believe the abductor nonsense, I dont blame them.

And here we have the start of the lies. We can see it is impossible and apart from PeterMac I don't think we have any other police force, retired or active, and we are seeing so many imposibilities from the get go so I hope that SY can see the same.

by **tigger** 12.05.13 15:38

No date on this, but must be after the front door was changed to the patio doors.... best friend Michelle Thompson -

“On the morning of the 4th of May, 2007, Kate called our land line but we did not hear it as we were asleep and did not put the phone on the bed. She left a message and asked us to call her once we heard the message. Kate must have tried Jon’s mobile once as we stirred when it rang at about 03h20. Jon spoke briefly with Kate and then called her around 03h30. I knew that Kate and Gerry were on holidays in Portugal. Kate was very anguished and on the telephone and told me that she had checked on the children every half-hour. It was around 22h00, and when she went to check on the children she found that someone had entered the apartment and taken Madeleine from where she slept; that Madeleine had been abducted. The person must have entered, passed by the twins and taken her.
Kate continued that when she entered the apartment via the patio doors, a breeze hit her in the face as if a door or window was open. When she entered the children’s room, the window was open, the blind had been forced and Madeleine had disappeared. Kate urged me to call all the close family and to ask them to pray for Madeleine.”
Michelle Thompson in a statement to the Leicestershir Police, may 2008
unquote

Clearly needed a bit more adjustment, but in May, long before the video we already had the dramatic breeze hitting Kate in the face. Interesting that this comes from the companion of Jon Corner, the film maker.

by worriedmum 12.05.13 18:46

it seems strange that an abductor (who had been watching the movements of the family) would risk walking across the head of a road where they must have been able to hear, in such a quiet place, Gerry ,parent to the child,and Jez Wilkins talking to one another? If they only waited they would allow Gerry to turn back to the Tapas bar and Jeremy to carry on pushing his buggy past what would look like just another parent.The abductor would know this because he /she/they were watching.It appears they did not even take a look down the street to check before crossing, in case it was wiser to wait. It has been suggested that Madeleine was sedated, if so she would not have woken up. A high risk strategy, eh?

by Nina 12.05.13 19:13

worriedmum wrote:it seems strange that an abductor (who had been watching the movements of the family) would risk walking across the head of a road where they must have been able to hear, in such a quiet place, Gerry ,parent to the child,and Jez Wilkins talking to one another? If they only waited they would allow Gerry to turn back to the Tapas bar and Jeremy to carry on pushing his buggy past what would look like just another parent.The abductor would know this because he /she/they were watching.It appears they did not even take a look down the street to check before crossing, in case it was wiser to wait. It has been suggested that Madeleine was sedated, if so she would not have woken up. A high risk strategy, eh?

That is an interesting point worriedmum about looking down the road. Would you cross a road without checking if there was any traffic first, not just cars but silent pushbikes?

Kates CLEAR memory of what happened night 030507 - Truth of her lie