Legal Issues of the Madeleine McCann Case

by mrcibubur 13.09.12 8:44

I have reflected long and hard on a number of the legal issues concerning this case and it might be as well to list them and discuss them objectively on the Forum. Please excuse me if this has already been done but I have not seen it, as yet, or come across it anyway.

1. Child Neglect

2. Concealment of a Body

3. Perverting the course of justice with inaccuracies, lies, misinformation

4. A child who cannot be found becomes 'Ward of Court'

5. Conflict in jurisdiction between Uk and Portugal in investigating a potential crime

6. Reputation - Not to be defamed (applicable to the McCanns, Murats, Amaral and others)

7. Privacy - Not to have your human right to privacy infringed upon

8. Freedom of Speech by a legal means such as publication of a book

9. Illicit Enrichment on the back of the case by the McCanns, Amaral and others

10. Interference with due process by third party investigators

11. Deception is a whole lot more serious than just telling a white Lie

by pauline 13.09.12 11:00

Many think the limited company (the Fund) officially set up a few days after she went missing to fund the search for Madeleine is a scam. But the company is registered in the UK so the Portuguese police/authorities would not have jurisdiction and could not have access to the records.

Some think it is a vehicle for laundering money ''owned' by some of the suspect characters surrounding the McCanns. This may not be true but it is very likely it is paying the legal bills of the McCanns court actions despite the promise that its for madeleine. The missing large advance royalty payment apparently not in the Fund is surely an issue that should be followed up by the authorities. The book cover proclaimed 'all royalties donated to Madeleine's Fund.'

So basiciall we may have FRAUD imo to add to the issues listed in the post above, imo.

by rainbow-fairy 13.09.12 17:29

pauline wrote:Many think the limited company (the Fund) officially set up a few days after she went missing to fund the search for Madeleine is a scam. But the company is registered in the UK so the Portuguese police/authorities would not have jurisdiction and could not have access to the records.

Some think it is a vehicle for laundering money ''owned' by some of the suspect characters surrounding the McCanns. This may not be true but it is very likely it is paying the legal bills of the McCanns court actions despite the promise that its for madeleine. The missing large advance royalty payment apparently not in the Fund is surely an issue that should be followed up by the authorities. The book cover proclaimed 'all royalties donated to Madeleine's Fund.'

So basiciall we may have FRAUD imo to add to the issues listed in the post above, imo.

Totally agree re the 'Fund' and the missibg royalty payment - where is it??? but irrespective of the Fund being fraudulent, if concealmeant of body and simulation of abduction is the case then every birthday event, TV appearence, 'appeals', and the like are all equally fraudulent... How could it not be fraudulent asking people to look for a child they know cannot be found (and after reading the files and interviews, reading and analysing interviews I am certain that this is the case)

by **tigger** 13.09.12 18:04

Not only the book deal:can we find the 1 million reputedly paid by Oprah Winfrey?

As early as January 08 we have:

8/1 Madeleine: The Movie
It is reported that Kate and Gerry McCann are in talks to turn the story of their missing daughter Madeleine into a movie. They are negotiating with one of the world’s largest talent and entertainment agencies, IMG.
26/1
McCanns in talks for £1million chat show deal.
The parents of Madeleine McCann are in talks to strike a £1million deal with two of America's biggest chat show stars.It is reported that Kate and Gerry McCann are holding talks with broadcasters about a second TV documentary on their daughter's disappearance, a spokesman for the couple said on Saturday. The couple would request a ''donation'' to the Find Madeleine appeal fund in exchange for their involvement.

So: did anyone buy the film rights? I would not be surprised to find this was so.
Oprah Winfrey certainly took place.

So where are these entries in the transparent accounts?

roses

always glad to see you surfacing RB!

by Invinoveritas 13.09.12 18:06

I´m aware that this is slightly O/T but I have often wondered whether TM are planning/considering a death in absentia after Madeleine has been missing for seven years: in most common law jurisdictions , after a seven year period, an individual is presumed dead if there is no evidence to the contrary and let´s face it, up to now there is no evidence to the contrary.
snip: In England and
Wales, if it is believed that there should be an [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], the local [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] will file a report; this may be done to help a
family receive a death certificate that will bring some closure. This will bring
any suspicious circumstances into light. The coroner will then apply to the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
under the Coroners Act 1988 section 15, for an inquest with no body. The seven
years rule will only apply in the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on the settlement
of an estate. According to a spokesman for the Ministry of Justice, the
number of requests received each year is fewer than 10 but very few of these are
refused. Without a body an inquest relies mostly on evidence provided by the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], and whether the senior officers
believe the missing person is dead. :end snip
source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

perhaps someone with a greater knowledge of the judicial system in England can provide me with more information

by **tigger** 13.09.12 18:18

Invinoveritas wrote:I´m aware that this is slightly O/T but I have often wondered whether TM are planning/considering a death in absentia after Madeleine has been missing for seven years: in most common law jurisdictions , after a seven year period, an individual is presumed dead if there is no evidence to the contrary and let´s face it, up to now there is no evidence to the contrary.
snip: In England and
Wales, if it is believed that there should be an [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], the local [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] will file a report; this may be done to help a
family receive a death certificate that will bring some closure. This will bring
any suspicious circumstances into light. The coroner will then apply to the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
under the Coroners Act 1988 section 15, for an inquest with no body. The seven
years rule will only apply in the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on the settlement
of an estate. According to a spokesman for the Ministry of Justice, the
number of requests received each year is fewer than 10 but very few of these are
refused. Without a body an inquest relies mostly on evidence provided by the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], and whether the senior officers
believe the missing person is dead. :end snip
source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

perhaps someone with a greater knowledge of the judicial system in England can provide me with more information

I doubt they will do this, although in view of the fact that I believe the PJ files which were held held back will be published in ten years time, it might be a good idea.

by Invinoveritas 13.09.12 18:33

don´t know tigger, I was thinking that if TM went down this road, then there would be an even greater sob story, enormous support from certain sources and KM would be free to take up an even greater position in her role as ambassador or whatever, there would certainly be a sequel to her book with once again royalties galore

by Miraflores 13.09.12 20:42

But would Madeleine's having been made a Ward of Court prevent the McCanns from doing this? Wouldn't it have to be done by the Court?

by mrcibubur 14.09.12 2:42

Yes indeed i agree about the Limited Company (rather than a Charity) which was set up around or at the same time as application was made for Madeleine to become a Ward of Court. There are genuine legal issues on how the Fund has been administered and big questions on the Trustee-ship of the Fund.
.
On this subject, we can only 'scratch' the surface.

As regards the Insurance possibility, it is certainly a possibility that the McCanns set up an Insurance Policy on Madeleine's life with the intention of profiting from her supposed death in seven years time when she is not found but the high profile nature of this case would likely result in the Insurance Company, if they have not done so already as an interim measure, carry out their own investigation quite separate from the British and Portugese Police, Governments and hired hand Private Investigators. We have just seen that happen in the Hillsborough case where the Insurance Company (Sun Alliance I believe) carried out their own investigation of the Hillsborough tragedy on behalf of Sheffield Wednesday Football Club but interestingly, they refused to publish their findings as part of the actual extensive Report.

Purely as a comparison, the Ocean Club are a business enterprise just like Sheffield Wednesday Football Club and you would expect that their Insurers instructed Investigators at the outset.

The problem with the case overall is that there is a mass of circumstantial evidence and it is easy to be mistaken on a number of key points. The more we read, the more we become confused. If the McCanns were really intent on getting their Daughter, assuming she was still alive, then they and their Tapas friends should co-operate fully and without obstruction to getting justice for Madeleine McCann.

by **tigger** 14.09.12 7:07

mrcibubur wrote:Yes indeed i agree about the Limited Company (rather than a Charity) which was set up around or at the same time as application was made for Madeleine to become a Ward of Court. There are genuine legal issues on how the Fund has been administered and big questions on the Trustee-ship of the Fund.
.
On this subject, we can only 'scratch' the surface.

As regards the Insurance possibility, it is certainly a possibility that the McCanns set up an Insurance Policy on Madeleine's life with the intention of profiting from her supposed death in seven years time when she is not found but the high profile nature of this case would likely result in the Insurance Company, if they have not done so already as an interim measure, carry out their own investigation quite separate from the British and Portugese Police, Governments and hired hand Private Investigators. We have just seen that happen in the Hillsborough case where the Insurance Company (Sun Alliance I believe) carried out their own investigation of the Hillsborough tragedy on behalf of Sheffield Wednesday Football Club but interestingly, they refused to publish their findings as part of the actual extensive Report.

Purely as a comparison, the Ocean Club are a business enterprise just like Sheffield Wednesday Football Club and you would expect that their Insurers instructed Investigators at the outset.

The problem with the case overall is that there is a mass of circumstantial evidence and it is easy to be mistaken on a number of key points. The more we read, the more we become confused. If the McCanns were really intent on getting their Daughter, assuming she was still alive, then they and their Tapas friends should co-operate fully and without obstruction to getting justice for Madeleine McCann.

I found a good quote without source: Myths cannot survive without confusion.

I think you should really post your views on the Hillsborough and Sun Alliance insurance on the Hillsborough topic. Nobody has mentioned them yet, all the reports are now public and the insurance report isn't?
As Lionel also pointed out, the owners of the clubs and the stadiums put up the fences (how many grounds had these?) to avoid heavy fines from the FA, not for the safety of the fans. Why do we hear so little about the neglect of the terraces by the owners and so much about everything else?
Surely the insurance question should be looked at, an insurance company should inspect the grounds and buildings they are taking on.
This point should be raised imo.

Re the McCann case: some evidence - the mods would know - has been held back by the PJ. Possibly as much as 30 - 40%.

by uppatoffee 14.09.12 7:53

I would be surprised if they went for the death in absentia. Firstly it would probably require a court application to do this. Secondly it would mean the end to the fund, and I can't see that happening.

by mrcibubur 16.09.12 8:20

There are a few other legal issues which occur to me after discussing on Forums with others

1. can UK interfere withe the justice system of another country such as Portugal and charge someone, whether British or Portugese or other nationality, for the crime which may affect one of the UK citizens eg Madeleine?

2. I favour a public enquiry but could this be held in Portugal or Uk or even in a neutral country under EU Law?

3. Does the case take Harrassment to a new level both in criminal law and in Tort?

4. Is Legal Aid an option for the McCanns or anyone else involved in the case?

5. Do PJ or sY have the right to withhold any evidence once they make disclosure? The point may be repeating the insurance point to some extent from the Hillsborough comment

by **tigger** 16.09.12 9:26

uppatoffee wrote:I would be surprised if they went for the death in absentia. Firstly it would probably require a court application to do this. Secondly it would mean the end to the fund, and I can't see that happening.

The Fund is very dear to their heart - the attention lavished on it tells us so. The Fund, one might say, is part of the 'family' and has to stay with the family. A family of five in fact. Complete.

by Guest 16.09.12 15:48

tigger wrote:
uppatoffee wrote:I would be surprised if they went for the death in absentia. Firstly it would probably require a court application to do this. Secondly it would mean the end to the fund, and I can't see that happening.

The Fund is very dear to their heart - the attention lavished on it tells us so. The Fund, one might say, is part of the 'family' and has to stay with the family. A family of five in fact. Complete.

I'm wondering what they'll come up with next, seeing the book is now selling at EUR 1 apiece.