Re: What was 5A really used for?

by Guest 20.01.12 13:07

This photo clearly shows Mrs Fenn in the apartment directly above the McCanns and can be enlarged for better look...................

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by jd 20.01.12 13:08

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An interesting comment from the above article

"Malinkas mother worked for Ocean Blue who cleaned out apartments in the OC, and one of them was an apartment in block 5 on the top floor"

by Guest 20.01.12 13:10

candyfloss wrote:This photo clearly shows Mrs Fenn in the apartment directly above the McCanns and can be enlarged for better look...................

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Yes, but is this her main apartment, or a 2nd apartment that she went down to for a better look? This is what we need to find out.

Have you seen another photo like this where there is a big red arrow pointing to Mrs Fenn's apartment. It may be a media photo, I'm having trouble finding it.

by Guest 20.01.12 13:13

jd wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

An interesting comment from the above article

"Malinkas mother worked for Ocean Blue who cleaned out apartments in the OC, and one of them was an apartment in block 5 on the top floor"

That must be some kind of private arrangement then for someone living there, as the OC cleaner in her statement says she is the only OC cleaner for that block.

by uppatoffee 20.01.12 13:15

Some of the confusion over levels may come with language differences. In some European countries they do not have a ground floor, they simply start numbering from one, so what we would say is ground floor, they would class as first.

by Guest 20.01.12 13:17

Stella wrote:
jd wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

An interesting comment from the above article

"Malinkas mother worked for Ocean Blue who cleaned out apartments in the OC, and one of them was an apartment in block 5 on the top floor"

That must be some kind of private arrangement then for someone living there, as the OC cleaner in her statement says she is the only OC cleaner for that block.

According to Carole T (whose statement I am just plodding through) Mrs Fenn was the only resident in Ocean Club. There were others owned, but only used for holidays. Parts of the year Mrs Fenn was the only person there if I am reading it right.

by Daisy 20.01.12 13:19

Stella wrote:
Daisy wrote:
Stella wrote:Daisy, Praia is bringing to our attention some very important issues here, we have clearly overlooked and they are very significant.

Praia did not actually say Mrs Fenn had two apartments, it was me who asked/suggested this, which we are still to confirm. I am reading Carole Tranmer's statement right now and she does not state that Mrs Fenn's apartment number was 5G. Strange don't you think?

Praia is from Portugal, the IP address confirms this and any help from that side is truly welcome.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

We will just have to accept that sometimes, as we have seen in the past, individuals come forward to help us and it may not always be possible to have concrete proof. We are not going round in circles here. We are looking under all those stones that we have forgotten all about and being pointed in the right direction. I do not understand why you are getting so angry and making threats. No one is forcing you to read any material on here. If there is someone you feel you cannot accept what they have to say, just gloss over them. It is as simple as that. Trust me, I wish I could with quite a few posters on here, but being a Mod, sadly I'm unable to.

Yes Stella, Praia did actually say it.

Quote Praia: "Read Carole Trenton's statements. Mrs Fenn was on the TOP floor three
stories up, thr apt was on it's own in the corner. CT thinks she may
have owned another apt.in the block. CT saw the strange man from the TOP
floor. There are good reasons Mrs Fenn's statement was withheld. CT is
also asked to describe no. 20 in great detail. CT statement has been
overlooked, it throws open alot of questions.
Mrs Fenn's apt. was on the TOP floor according to her niece.

Quote Praia: "Daisy you are missing what I am saying. CT says her aunt lived on the
TOP floor of the block, no. 20. Just her on the top floor like a
penthouse.
CT visited Mrs Fenn on the Sun. and Thurs., sat on her
balcony and saw a stranger leave 5B down below. She describes the
amazing view from the TOP floor.
She thought her aunt owned another apt. in the building.
This is important folks."

Now, I'm not silly, I know there isn't always "concrete proof", I'm not asking for that, I'm asking for sources to the above info that Praia has brought forward. Is that so bad? Isn't this how research works? I'll repeat NOWHERE in CT's statement will you find any of the above (underlined ^) info. Unless, Praia has read CT's first statement and that's not very likely is it?

Praia is clearly saying then that it was Carole Tranmer who is alluding to more than one apartment. I am going through this statement right now and for the next couple of days, so will have to come back to you whether Praia is right, or you are right and will come back to this, if that's alright with you?

That is perfectly fine & fair Stella. Thank you. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 20.01.12 13:20

CT's version of the temperature that weeks seems to be at odds with what we have been told by various people...................

CT'And, she was very upset with all of it, and I was trying to help her cope along with dealing with my twin brother's death. For this reason, I went to visit her for a week in February in 2004. It was my first time in that place but we had already been in Luz before that when we went to Portugal as tourists. After that, we went a second time with my husband and stayed in (inaudible) a small fishing village about 10 minutes from Luz. We have already been in Portugal many times, but to visit Luz only three times.

DC1485'Okay. When you were there how was the temperature'

CT' It was good, sunny and hot. At times it was necessary to use a sweater but during the day it was marvellous. Besides this, it was fresh and but very agreeable.

CT'I believe it rained one day; it was a bit windy, besides this... it was wonderful weather ' not for sun bathing, even though there were people doing just this but it was not really sun bathing weather.

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by Guest 20.01.12 13:27

Uppatoffee

Some of the confusion over levels may come with language differences. In some European countries they do not have a ground floor, they simply start numbering from one, so what we would say is ground floor, they would class as first.

Not with Carole Tranmer's statement. She says something VERY specific here:

CT 'When my uncle died, they had a villa close to Lagos, but when he died of Alzheimer's, she sold it to buy the site in Luz. She bought it because it was surrounded by people and it was easy for her to come and go as she did not want a big site. She bought it in 2003'since 2003 and it is the second or third floor, I am never certain, but I believe that there is one more apartment

DC 1485'ground floor... ground floor, first floor'

CT 'No, she is the third, I believe that she is on the third floor.

DC 1485'Third floor.

CT 'There is only one on top, therefore, she is on the third floor, at the end apartment. Once there, you take the elevator or the stairs. There is no other entrance or exit. You go directly to her door. She lives at the end. There is no other access.

by Guest 20.01.12 13:30

She was an administrator and should not get that confused. So the apartments would looks something like this then.

Ground flr.		1st	floor	2nd	floor	3rd	floor	4th	floor

5A	McCann	5G	Mrs Fenn	5K	Moyes	5P	Mrs Fenn	5R
5B	Oldfield	5H	Payne	5L	empty ?	5Q		5S
5C	empty ?	5i	empty ?	5M	empty ?
5D	Tanner	5J	?	5N
5E
5F

	the OC cleaner only cleans these apartments
	the cleaner said was occupied
	we know is privately owned
	presumed to be privately owned
	sniffer dogs Rex and Zarus independently show interest
	and cleaner confirmed it was not occupied

by Guest 20.01.12 13:31

5P and 5G would sound very similar under certain conditions.

by Guest 20.01.12 13:34

Stella wrote:
candyfloss wrote:This photo clearly shows Mrs Fenn in the apartment directly above the McCanns and can be enlarged for better look...................

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Yes, but is this her main apartment, or a 2nd apartment that she went down to for a better look? This is what we need to find out.

Have you seen another photo like this where there is a big red arrow pointing to Mrs Fenn's apartment. It may be a media photo, I'm having trouble finding it.

This is not the photos you are asking for, but maybe some of the others photos here could be helpful ? Have not read all the info her, but by looking fast over it, looks interesting. I had not seen any of this pictires before of the apartments and the suroundings ! ( and I thought I had seen them all by know )
Posting the link, pls delete if for some reason I should not link to this page :)

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And here are more infrom from Textusa regarding the apartments , fenn etc..(hope it is ok to post link)

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by uppatoffee 20.01.12 13:38

Stella wrote:5P and 5G would sound very similar under certain conditions.

Surely the police would have checked this though Stella? The covering page in Portuguese for Mrs Fenn's statement says G5 and there is photographic evidence of her in G5. Her statement says

'Thus, according to the facts noted in the files, she says that she has lived in the apartment since 2003, which is located on the upper floor, immediately above the room from which the child disappeared."

by Guest 20.01.12 13:41

This is so confusing.......................

DC1485'It is not exactly the principal gate because, as you noted, the ultimate apartment is where the McCann's were lodged.

CT'Well I did not know. As you know I was on the top.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'And so it is clear, it was not this apartment from which I was looking.

DC1485'Your aunt's apartment is exactly on top'

CT'Yes, it is directly on top.

DC1485'But it is two floors up'

CT'It is the last one, yes.

DC1485'Okay.

So which apartment was she in, when she says the above in bold?? I think she must mean the ground floor is the first floor ????

by Guest 20.01.12 13:45

This is odd !!

DC1485'And you can confirm that it is block 5G'

CT'5G yes.

DC1485'And the name of, and the number of the apartment, 5G'

CT' No, the apartment is the twentieth.

DC1485'Apartment 20.

CT' Apartment 20.

DC1485'Waterside Gardens'

CT' Yes. Waterside Gardens, yes.

by Guest 20.01.12 13:52

To her, the ground floor, is the ground floor it would seem.

CT Well, below, if you look right down, there is a street which leads to the supermarket which is at the end of a small' I call it an alley' a long passageway in front of all of the verandas that look towards the pool. There is a hedge which lines the small gates which gave access to the ground-floor apartments and it was through one of these small gates that I saw this person leave.

by jd 20.01.12 13:54

Stella wrote:
Ground flr. 1st floor 2nd floor 3rd floor 4th floor
5A McCann 5G Mrs Fenn 5K Moyes 5P Mrs Fenn 5R
5B Oldfield 5H Payne 5L empty ? 5Q 5S
5C empty ? 5i empty ? 5M empty ?
5D Tanner 5J ? 5N
5E
5F
the OC cleaner only cleans these apartments
the cleaner said was occupied
we know is privately owned
presumed to be privately owned
sniffer dogs Rex and Zarus independently show interest
and cleaner confirmed it was not occupied

Just to clarify things....This is the occupants of the flats at the time. It looks to me that Mrs Fenn was living in 5G and CT was staying in 5P (Which Mrs Fenn also owned)

by uppatoffee 20.01.12 13:59

jd wrote:

Just to clarify things....This is the occupants of the flats at the time. It looks to me that Mrs Fenn was living in 5G and CT was staying in 5P (Which Mrs Fenn also owned)

Did she own it jd? It would seem odd that the cleaners would do 5P if that was Mrs Fenn's but not 5G which was also hers.

Maria Julia S. da Silva - OC Cleaner
“Upon being asked, she states that she is a cleaner and has been working as such for around 13 years with the company 'THE OCEAN CLUB'. Her two daughters, FM and DI work with her in the same department.

Regarding her job, she points out that she is the person who is responsible for cleaning Block 5, more specifically apartments A, B, C, D, H, I, K, L, M and P, and also states that when the child disappeared only apartments A, B, D, G, H and K were occupied. She declares that she is the only employee who cleans these apartments”

by Daisy 20.01.12 14:01

candyfloss wrote:This is so confusing.......................

DC1485'It is not exactly the principal gate because, as you noted, the ultimate apartment is where the McCann's were lodged.

CT'Well I did not know. As you know I was on the top.

DC1485'Yes.

CT'And so it is clear, it was not this apartment from which I was looking.

DC1485'Your aunt's apartment is exactly on top'

CT'Yes, it is directly on top.

DC1485'But it is two floors up'

CT'It is the last one, yes.

DC1485'Okay.

So which apartment was she in, when she says the above in bold?? I think she must mean the ground floor is the first floor ????

Messiah appears at that point to be showing her the wrong apartment? (that's what I draw from that bit)

By saying 'directly on top' CT is saying directly above the McCanns. When she says 'It is the last one' - she means the last apartment on the row. hope that helps with the confusion.

by jd 20.01.12 14:02

I'm even more confused now uppatoffee!

by jd 20.01.12 14:05

Daisy wrote:

Messiah appears at that point to be showing her the wrong apartment? (that's what I draw from that bit)

By saying 'directly on top' CT is saying directly above the McCanns. When she says 'It is the last one' - she means the last apartment on the row. hope that helps with the confusion.

yes this helps with the confusion, and Messiah appears to be showing CT the wrong apartment. Is this apartment he was showing the one they were very interested in? 5P?

by Daisy 20.01.12 14:07

jd wrote:
Stella wrote:
Ground flr. 1st floor 2nd floor 3rd floor 4th floor
5A McCann 5G Mrs Fenn 5K Moyes 5P Mrs Fenn 5R
5B Oldfield 5H Payne 5L empty ? 5Q 5S
5C empty ? 5i empty ? 5M empty ?
5D Tanner 5J ? 5N
5E
5F
the OC cleaner only cleans these apartments
the cleaner said was occupied
we know is privately owned
presumed to be privately owned
sniffer dogs Rex and Zarus independently show interest
and cleaner confirmed it was not occupied

Just to clarify things....This is the occupants of the flats at the time. It looks to me that Mrs Fenn was living in 5G and CT was staying in 5P (Which Mrs Fenn also owned)

I'm confused now jd. CT didn't stay at the Ocean Club. She stayed in a place over 2 hours drive away. And sorry for banging on, but there is NO evidence whatsover (at this point) to say Mrs Fenn owned another property.

by Guest 20.01.12 14:11

Stella wrote:CT 'When my uncle died, they had a villa close to Lagos, but when he died of Alzheimer's, she sold it to buy the site in Luz. She bought it because it was surrounded by people and it was easy for her to come and go as she did not want a big site. She bought it in 2003'since 2003 and it is the second or third floor, I am never certain, but I believe that there is one more apartment

DC 1485'ground floor... ground floor, first floor'

CT 'No, she is the third, I believe that she is on the third floor.

DC 1485'Third floor.

CT 'There is only one on top, therefore, she is on the third floor, at the end apartment. Once there, you take the elevator or the stairs. There is no other entrance or exit. You go directly to her door. She lives at the end. There is no other access.

She could not be any clearer here. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] What she is saying is, there is only one apartment above hers.

She is on the 3rd floor folks !!!!! Mrs Fenn was staying in her apartment on the 3rd floor.

by Guest 20.01.12 14:13

Daisy wrote:I'm confused now jd. CT didn't stay at the Ocean Club. She stayed in a place over 2 hours drive away. And sorry for banging on, but there is NO evidence whatsover (at this point) to say Mrs Fenn owned another property.

I thought you were going to give us all time to study the statement?