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EVRD and CSI Dogs

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EVRD and CSI Dogs

Post by ufercoffy on 30.01.11 22:01

I've copied YNG's post over here from the Research and Analysis Library, together with a post from Ali Bongo on PFA2, to show how desperate the McCann supporters are:

Please someone tell me how it's possible that TWO highly trained police dogs can both be wrong in exactly the same places. daft



Re: COCONUTS I SAY!!
by Pedro Silva » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:06 pm

Mr. Grimes, your dogs gave a false alert at Praia da Luz. There is always a first time, that was your dogs first time, you must know to recognize the error of your dogs, which are not infallible, if you say that you know your dogs, one more reason to know that dogs also make mistakes, also, there is no need of repeat about being infallible, because no one is perfect, not even animals.

http://www.pfa2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7369
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YNG wrote:“ The tasking for this operation was as per my normal Standard Operating
Procedures. The dogs are deployed as search assets to secure evidence and
locate human remains or Human blood.”

….. Martin Grimes

The canine team were not brought in by the British & Portuguese authorities to look for an abducted child, they were deployed to look for evidence of accidental or non accidental death.

At the time of biological death the individual scent emitted by someone undergoes a transformation. This change though not immediately detectable by humans, does affect the composition of the scent detected by dogs. The body goes through five stages of decomposition before it is skeletonised and the dogs are trained to react to the scent picture through the complete spectrum.

There are no laboratory detection processes or equipment as sensitive as the canine’s olfactory system. The dog’s natural hunting instinct and their ability to detect scents cannot be defeated.

Unlike humans who would only smell the pleasing scent of a freshly baked cake, a dog is capable of distinguishing the scent of every individual ingredient used in the recipe simply by smelling the cake. They can locate a scent no matter how much it is intermingled with other odours .

When a person dies decomposition begins immediately protein synthesis in the body stops. With nothing to maintain the protective lining in the gut digestive enzymes eat the body from the inside out creating amino acids. While this is happening bacteria feed on those amino acids. According to a study in 2008 from the Journal of Forensic Science the process of decomposition produces 478 different scent signatures.

A dead human body is called a cadaver and dogs that are specifically trained to find bodies or remains of a body including the chemical residue left behind when a body has been moved, are classified as ‘Cadaver Dogs’ and or Human Remains Detection Dogs. These dogs are capable of finding the scent of a cadaver where there is no physically retrievable evidence.

When someone dies the scent from the cadaver, the smell of human decomposition gasses in addition to skin rafts emanates into the air. By definition scent is the bacterial, cellular and vaporous debris enshrouding the individual

Tests have proven that residual scent from a cadaver will last in a building with minimum environmental influences or human disturbance for at least 1 Year, even after the objects where the scent source originated had been removed.

All British police dogs, irrespective of the discipline they are trained in, must be licensed to work operationally. To obtain the license they have to pass a test at the completion of their training, and then again every year until they retire. The standards required to become operational are laid down by the (ACPO) sub-committee on police dogs and are reviewed on a regular basis to ensure that training and licensing reflects the most appropriate methods and standards.

All training and operational work is recorded, these records may be discoverable in court proceedings and may become evidence of the canine team’s reliability, the type and amount of training that the team has experienced before and after certification and confirmed operational outcomes can be used as a factor in determining their capability.


From Martin Grimes Report ;

“The dog will alert to the presence of cadaver scent whether it is at source or
some distance away from a deposition site

False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated operationally or in training. In six years of operational deployment in over 200 criminal case searches the dog has never alerted to meat based and specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption. Similarly the dog has never alerted to 'road kill', that is any other dead animal.”

The E.R.V.D. has successfully in training and in operational casework located
Human cadavers, whether in the whole or parts thereof, deposited surface or
sub-surface to a depth of approximately 1 metre shortly after death (though
precise times are not determinable) to the advanced stages of decomposition
and putrefaction through the skeletal. This includes incinerated remains even if
large quantities of accelerant have been involved … “


Places and Items where the EVRD and CSI Dogs Signaled

The first alert was given with the dogs head in the air without a positive area
being identified.

Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.

Living room, behind sofa.

Veranda outside parent's bedroom.

Garden area directly under veranda.

Cuddle Cat

Clothing belonging to Kate McCann x 2 - Trousers and a Top

Red Children’s T-Shirt

Hired Car – Renault Scenic
When passing a vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert
indication at the lower part of the driver’s door where the dog was biting and
barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from
the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door.

Hired Car – Key Fob

Five apartments were searched using the EVRD.

Ten vehicles were screened in an underground multi storey car park at
Portimao.

The dogs only alerted to property and items associated with the McCann family.


Martin Grime, the dogs’ instructor himself [20], mentions in his report:

“Whereas there may be no retrievable evidence for court purposes this may well assist intelligence gathering in Major Crime investigations”; or scientist Dr John Lowe [21] who refers that the FSS has no scientific support about the use of the dogs as a fundament for the collection of biological residues and that normally take the handler’s word for certification, that asserts that the dogs are more sensitive than any chemical technique or other techniques that are normally used by crime scene sector experts"


Mark Harrison


About 4 months after the disappearance the investigation took a new direction after Mark Harrison (Highly respected National Search Adviser NPIA (National Police Improvement Agency) for Missing persons Searches, Homicides and Big scale Natural disasters in the United Kingdom) arrived to Algarve and started working with the Portuguese police, Leicester police and the Scotland Yard members present in the field. After one week Mark Harrison made a report where he stated that there were large possibilities of Madeleine being dead and her body concealed somewhere around the area. It was also him who advised for the need to get help from dogs specialized in finding dead bodies. It is also interesting to know that from the vast experience of Mark Harrison in cases of homicides of under 5 years old victims in the UK since 1960 there were 1528 cases in which 82% of them were committed by the parents and 96% were committed by persons with close relations with the victims. Only 4% were committed by people not known by the victims.

The two English dogs were presented as an indispensable help to the investigation, after their abilities and the manner in which they are trained were explained in detail, as well as the fact that they both react to blood traces and cadaver odours, without a single episode of “false positives” in the investigations.

In a report, Mark Harrison listed cases of success that offered a guarantee of reliability. And he asserted that if the dogs came to signal Maddie’s death, then it would be a fact.


Meredydd Hughes, Chief Constable said:

” Keela’s training gives the force an edge when it comes to forensic investigation, which we should recognise and use more often. Martin has developed this capability through innovation and experience, and we are now considering how best to develop the training further. We know other forces are interested, both here and abroad, and we must see what opportunities we can develop. We know we have an operationally excellent dog section, and our specialist dogs are being developed in a unique way.”


Team McCann counter-attack

Gazeta Digital: “Kate and Gerry McCann's legal team has contacted American lawyers over a case where key sniffer dog evidence was thrown out of court in the hope that it may help them fight any charges that they were involved in the killing of their daughter; according to today's edition of The Thelegraph. Angus McBride and Michael Caplan “consulted the legal team of Eugene Zapata, 68, who is accused of murdering his estranged wife Jeanette in 1976. But a judge ruled last month that the evidence was no more reliable than "the flip of a coin" and could not be put before a jury” writes The Telegraph, quoting the judge's decision. The sniffer dogs brought to Praia da Luz by a South Yorkshire police special team, Eddie and Keela, are considered the best and only ones with the capacity to detect the scent of a corpse or blood even months after incidents happened.


Smell in the Hired Vehicle

Michael Wright (friend who went out to Portugal several times) : "I noted some disagreeable smells on a number of occasions which I judged to have come from the twins' nappies. Discarded nappies were collected in rubbish bags and held until thrown into the [rubbish] bins, [thereby] provoking smell. I have no knowledge of anything spilling from any article nor of any cleaning of the car after such a hypothetical spill."


Alexander Cameron (Gerry's brother-in-law) : "On one occasion, I believe it was on July of 2007, I took Patricia to the supermarket. We carried bags in the boot (trunk) of the Renault Scenic; bought various items including fresh fish, shrimp and beef. When we unloaded the shopping bags, we noticed that blood has run out of the bottom of the plastic bag. After this shopping trip and still in the month of July 2007, I began to notice a strange odour in the car. I did not give it much importance and assumed it was likely due to the leakage from the rubbish bags or from the blood which had escaped from the shopping bags. As a result, we removed the carpet from the boot (trunk) in order to clean it. I tossed (beat) the boot carpet to remove any particles and cleaned it with a wet cloth and left it to air out."

The witness who lived near the McCanns’ second home, in Aldeia da Luz, who says she witnessed an uncommon fact about the McCanns’ hire car, where the dogs detected cadaver odour and remains that may belong to Maddie, was not heard, either. This neighbour has signed a document authorising the broadcast of her deposition that identifies her, but fearing threats and pressures, she doesn’t show her face.

This is an interesting matter, when I left the Criminal Investigation Department in Portimão, in October 2007, nothing was known about this vehicle, about this issue of the open car boot. We knew that inside the vehicle cadaver odour and bodily fluids had been found, where Madeleine McCann’s DNA profile was extracted from, with 15 alleles. Months later, there is a jurist, who lives nearby, who came to report that after the McCanns arrived at this villa, they saw the car boot open from then on.


Neighbour: "I drive down this street every day to turn my car around at that end, and every time that I passed the house, and I looked at the car, and the car always had an open boot door, day or night. I often passed at night, and always verified it. It was a fact, I reported it, and that was it."It’s important to report the following: that lady, that jurist, was never heard at the Polícia Judiciária because her deposition was not considered to be relevant, which is strange. While she was not heard, while a rogatory letter was sent to England, relatives of Gerald and Kate McCann came out to say that they had transported, inside this car boot, food from the supermarket, namely a meat package that leaked blood.

The great question is how the family heard about the witness, despite the fact that she was not heard by the PJ, and tried to reply to the observed facts.


Gerry McCann: sniffer dogs are not reliable

Sniffer dogs have a high failure rate, according to Gerry McCann. In an interview with the Portuguese weekly Expresso, when asked to comment about Eddie and Keela searches at Praia da Luz, Gerry said that a study made in USA proved that those dogs were not reliable.
Sniffer dogs were tested, according to Gerry McCann, with boxes containing vegetables, bones, garbage and some human remains. For 10 hours, four sets of boxes were left in ten rooms. After the boxes were removed, the dogs were called in and “failed in two thirds of the cases”, said the father of Madeleine McCann.
Eddie and Keela handler, Martin Grimes, in a statement that is in the DVD files of the investigation of Madeleine’s disappearance, says that the dogs have been used in around 200 cases and never gave a “false alert”.

Published: 18 Dec 2007

FURIOUS Gerry McCann believes sniffer dogs used to find Maddie clues in the family's hire car were MANIPULATED by cops.


The animals appeared to detect traces of the four-year-old's DNA in the Renault Scenic - rented 25 days after she vanished.
This lead to Kate and Gerry, both 39, being made suspects in their daughter's disappearance in Praia da Luz, Portugal.
But Gerry, from Rothley, Leics, who was shown a video of the search, told lawyers the animals' evidence was unreliable.
A source close to the couple said last night: "Gerry says a dog went up to the Scenic, sniffed around and went to head off. He watched the dog being brought back to the vehicle.
"Finally, it reacts around the boot area. Gerry was open-mouthed at that, he feels the dog was manoeuvred into a position where it could react."


The extraordinary public reactions of Doctors Kate and Gerry McCann when they were told that the cadaver dog and the blood-hound had detected the ‘smell of death’ and blood in Apartment 5A, in the Renault Scenic, and on the clothes of Dr Kate McCann and Madeleine;

The evidence from the cadaver dog and the blood-hound were convincing enough on their own. But the McCanns then went on to strongly reinforce the evidence that Madeleine had died in Apartment 5A by their extraordinary reactions when that evidence was first reported.

To most people - if their child really had been abducted - the news that the ‘smell of death’ had been found in their holiday apartment, and in their car, would have prompted an outpouring of grief and concern for their child. It would have prompted reactions such as: Who hired the car before us?, or - Is anyone else known to have died in our apartment or in the hire car?

But this was not how the McCanns reacted. Instead, speaking through a variety of sources, including their £75,000-a-year spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, ‘friends of the family’ and ‘sources close to the McCanns’ legal team’, the McCanns came up with the following five explanations for why human cadaverine - the ‘smell of death’ - and blood, had been found in their apartment and in the car they hired:

(a) First, Dr Kate McCann claimed (at first indirectly via her mother, not directly) that the ‘smell of death’ may have been found on her clothes because she was said to have been in close proximity with no fewer than six corpses in her last two weeks at work. So far as this excuse for the presence of the ‘smell of death’ is concerned, there is doubt as to whether she did actually visit six corpses. That has never been verified by the McCanns. Further, those Doctors who have to certify the cause of death do not always handle the body nor handle it long enough or closely enough for the smell of death to be transferred to clothes. It also seems unlikely that a person who really had worked in such close proximity with corpses would take the same clothes on holiday with them that they used in working close to corpses.

(b) Second, Dr Kate McCann claimed that the ‘smell of death’ was found on the pink soft toy ‘Cuddle Cat’ because she ‘sometimes took Cuddle Cat to work’. The presence of the smell of death on Cuddle Cat was particularly difficult for the McCanns to explain. As a newspaper report based on police sources put it: “Kate didn’t contradict the fact that her two pieces of clothes and the stuffed animal [Cuddle Cat] had been signaled by the English dogs trained to find cadaver odor. She justified it by her profession. Kate McCann’s mother alleged that as a doctor at the Leicester health centre, she was directly present at six deaths before she came to Portugal on holiday, giving the same excuse for Madeleine’s stuffed animal, that was with her in the months after her daughter disappeared”.

Dr Kate McCann once again claimed that the ‘smell of death’ must have been transferred on to Cuddle Cat by her working on the corpses during the two weeks before going on holiday to work. Quite apart from it being unlikely that a mother would take a child’s favorite stuffed animal to work, never mind having it with her when she was close to corpses, it appears that experts say that it is not usually possible for the ‘smell of death’ to be transferred in this way. Even if the smell of death could be transferred in such a way - which the experts rule out - the McCanns would still have to account for the presence of the ‘smell of death’ in their apartment, and on the car they hired three weeks after Madeleine went missing.

(c) Third, the McCanns claimed that if DNA, thought to be Madeleine’s, was found in the boot of their car, then it could have come from the children’s dirty nappies, which they carried in the boot. First, it is unlikely, though certainly possible, that anyone would carry dirty nappies around in this way. Second, it must be remembered that the blood-hound, Keela, found the smell of blood in the hired car, not just ‘body fluids’. The ‘dirty nappy’ excuse therefore also doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

(d) Fourth, the McCanns claimed that the ‘smell of death’ could have come from rotting meat that Dr Gerry McCann was taking to the local rubbish dump from time to time. This is also impossible, as the scent from dead animals does not produce the same ‘cadaverine’ as human cadaver scent. The cadaver dogs are trained to detect only human cadaverine. Probably Dr Gerry McCann didn’t realise this when he made his comment.

(e) Fifth, the McCanns said that any blood found in the flat (apparently found having oozed underneath the tiles in the living room behind the sofa and where the wall and the floor meet) might have come from Madeleine ‘grazing her leg when she boarded the plane’, or perhaps a nosebleed. These explanations seem highly unlikely, given the amount of blood that would be needed for a small amount to seep through the tiles. The ‘knee incident’ occurred elsewhere, the day their holiday began. Any light bleeding would surely have stopped well before they even got to Praia da Luz. In addition, it is hardly likely that blood from a graze on the knee would be located at the edge of a room where the wall joins the floor. Nosebleeds usually leave only a few spots of blood (if any) on flooring, being largely contained by clothing or a handkerchief or similar over the nose. It’s highly unlikely that Madeleine would have sat still while copious quantities of blood poured from her nose on to the tiled floor, right by the living room wall.

In addition to these excuses for the apparent presence of both the smell of death and Madeleine’s blood, the McCanns and their ever-growing team of PR advisers and lawyers immediately poured scorn on the evidence of the cadaver dog and the blood-hound. They quickly cited, for example, an Irish court case where the judge would not accept the cadaver dog evidence alone, because it was not corroborated. They claimed there were Irish and American lawyers who had been able to cast doubt on cadaver dog evidence, pointing to a U.S. study which allegedly showed that cadaver dogs could be fallible. Yet cadaver dog evidence has played a vital part in securing the conviction of murderers in a number of countries. And we know from Mark Grimes that Eddie and Keela had never once been wrong in over 200 cases where they detected the smell of death or blood.

Let us ask ourselves, also, whether pouring scorn on the evidence of a cadaver dog in another court case would be amongst the first reactions of genuinely loving, grieving parents, on being informed that the smell of death had been found in their apartment and car?


And just to put a bit of spin on it ? ;

McCanns urged use of police sniffer dogs -
Couple became suspects because of the forensic tests they had requested
The couple, worried that inquiries by the Policia Judiciaria were losing momentum, asked detectives last month to re-examine the apartment where their daughter went missing and also for the use of sniffer dogs to seek fresh clues.






GNR Dogs & Search and Rescue Team


The whole idea of using Tracker Dogs and Search and Rescue Dogs is to follow and reconstruct a route that a person my have taken. This is done by using ‘target scents’, items used by the person which provide the dogs with that person’s scent. A towel, blanket and clothing believed to have been used by Madeleine were provided by the family for this purpose.

The cellular debris the dogs detect is believed to be a result of perspiration combined with skin oils that serves as a breeding ground for bacteria found on our skin / skin cells. Culture , diet , environment , and race are also influences unique to an individual and account for the singularity of a persons scent and which also forms the basis of the human scent trail.

Human beings loose approximately 4000 plus skin cells a minute and each cell is unique to that person and these dogs are capable of locating just one single cell.

The Search and Rescue Dog teams are specifically trained to find human scent and have to regularly meet certain standards and tests done to prove their competence.

The scent trail the dogs detected and followed just happens to be one that does not appear to correspond with a route which would be considered a normal route taken by Madeleine during their stay in PDL - this in its self is an important factor to consider given that at least four dogs all independently followed the same scent trail at different times and on different days.

The Search and Rescue dogs are trained to locate a scent no matter how much it is intermingled with other odours and dependant on environmental conditions, can detect that scent when it is days old. There will always be a question as to whether or not the scent was new and could it have dispersed, however this does not answer how or why days apart the dogs followed the same scent trail, clearly whatever the scent trail was, it didn’t appear to disperse.

The odds of all the dogs following the same trail by chance are too great given the number of variants in this case (by variants I mean the number of places where Madeleine should have left a scent trail prior to her going missing). This in itself could be an indication that all the dogs picked up what looks like the ‘freshest’ trail and even located it days apart.

Report on the Sniffer Dog Search and Rescue Team

“At 00.40, given the complexity of the situation that seemed to surround the disappearance, the GNR post commander requested reinforcements from two sniffer dog teams from the Portimao territorial group to help in the searches”

“ At 01.00 after the group commander had been briefed about the situation, telephone contact was made with an official from the Queluz GNR school, with the aim of their releasing search and rescue dog teams, seeing as these are specially trained to find missing persons, which is not the case with the Portimao sniffer dogs, which are essentially patrol dogs.”

“On 4th May, after having evaluated the situation surrounding the disappearance, the Lagos Post Commander ordered searches for the child to take place and contacted officers who were at home, forming a force of nine officers who searched during the night and early morning.

At 02.00 they arrived at P da L and began searching with the Portimao sniffer dog teams, the terrain searches were extended until the morning with the dogs and officers on the scene,.. “

“At 08.00 three officers with 4 search and rescue dogs from Queluz arrived at the scene, these dogs immediately began to operate.”

“ The sniffer dog search and rescue team of the GNR was sent to Vila da Luz in the attempt of locating Madeleine McCann, aged four, of British nationality, who disappeared on the night of 3rd May, from apartment 5 A, Block 5 of the OC resort, the team was composed as follows:”

Sargeant Silva – Dog: Timmy
Officer Cortez – Dog: Sacha
Officer Sousa – Dog: Kolly/Cookie
Officer Rosa – Dog: Oscar
Officer Martins – Dog: Fusco
Officer Fernandes – Dog: Rex/ Zarus

“During the afternoon of 4th May, more searches were carried out around Vila da Luz and were extended to a radius of approximately 600 metres, including the surroundings of the EN125 in the stretch closed to P da L.

At about 23.00 the extra teams that had been requested for reinforcement arrived (Officer Rosa with Oscar and Officer Martins with Fusco, both from the search and rescue unit and Officer Fernandes with Rex and Zarus from the tracking team).

After the officers had been updated about facts relating to the disappearance, they tried to reconstruct the route the girl might have taken with the two tracker dogs. For this purpose the dogs were given a blanket to sniff, provided by the parents, which had been used by Madeleine.

Beginning to follow the track using Rex, from the door of apartment 5 A (the place where the girl had been sleeping) he would always head in the direction of Block 4, leaving block 5 the dog would turn to the left, pass by a metal access door to a path existing between the apartments blocks to the leisure area (restaurant, pool and playground). Immediately another attempt at reconstruction was made using the dog Zarus, who, in general terms, ended up following the same route as Rex and having the same behaviour.

It is important to state that this tracking work was carried out in an urban area and more than 24 hours after the girl’s disappearance and numerous persons had passed along the path the dogs were tracking. It should also be stated that the path the dogs followed within the resort was practically totally surrounded by walls and the concentration of odours was stronger as they were protected from the wind. The searches finished at about 01.30”

“ On 7th May the same searches were continued, being extended to to the entire northern part of Almadena to the site of Espojeiro and the verges of the EN125 until the Boi valley.

“At about 19.. the undersigned officer, accompanied by the Commander, Officer Silva, took part in a meetings with the PJ Directorate, being asked by the PJ about the viability of giving the girl’s clothes to the dogs for the dogs to sniff again, and if by means of the odour inhaled, they would be able to mark an identical odour in one of the resort’s apartments even though its door was closed.

With regard to this task, Officer Silva referred to the fact that the time that had passed would be a crucial condition for the dogs’ work in obtaining results and that the entirety of the human odours existing in the apartments and access paths could make the dogs’ searches very difficult. However, in spite of not being a normal situation for tracking, it could be attempted, whilst the operation should be carried out as quickly as possible and not directed towards one but to all the apartments in the resort, it being appropriate for the handler not to know which apartment was chosen, so as not the be conditioned.

In this concrete situation, the objective would be for the dogs to carry out a discontinuous search, in other words, to sniff the girl’s clothes and immediately search near to the apartments, checking to see if there was any change in the behaviour of the dogs.”


“At about 23.00 accompanied by a PJ inspector, the searches were begun. After Rex was given the girl’s clothing to sniff, he began to search on the ground floor of block 5 and when he passed the door of apartment 5 A (the place the girl had disappeared from) according to his handler, officer Fernandes, the dog altered its behaviour, sniffing with greater intensity than he had done before. Apartment 5J of the same block was also checked as the dog had been more agitated than before as if there were a very strong strange odour there. It was stated that this apartment had been unoccupied for some time. Afterwards, the same kind of search was carried out using the dog Zarus which in general terms showed the same behaviour in the same places as Rex had done.”

“ On 10th May at about 20.10, upon the request of the PJ, searches were carried out in all of the apartments belonging to blocks 4 and 5 of the OC, two tracker dogs and two search and rescue dogs being used for this operation, adopting the same methods as those used on 7th May, just that this time the apartments were all open and searched one by one, being accompanied by a representative from the resort, who had the keys to all the apartments (apart from those not under her administration) and also with the objective of helping with the searches. The collaboration of all the guests occupying the apartments at that time was requested for this purpose and those apartments that were found to be empty were opened by the administrator.

All the apartments were searched by the dogs and when they arrived at apartment 5 J they began to sniff with intensity at the entrance door. During this behaviour it was noted by the PJ officers that there must be some unusual odour, but which with all certainty did not have anything to do with the odour being searched for, but there must have been something strange inside.

After entering the apartment, it was observed that the odour came from close to the fridge, which was open and contained some rotting meat and vegetables.

During the searches carried out in the apartments no sign of the girl was found by the dogs.”

“As you know, yesterday, 8 May 2007 at 23h45, the undersigned joined a search effected by the GNR dog team which targeted Blocks 5 and 4 of the Ocean Club resort and adjacent areas, with the objective of trying to reconstruct the possible route taken by the missing child on 3 May 2007.”
The GNR team performing the search had in its possession, packed in a plastic bag, a towel supposedly used to clean the missing youngster - Madeleine McCann - furnished by her parents.
- After the conditions for the search are met, the two GNR officers - the leader and the dog handler - gave the scent towel to one of the dogs to smell and led it into Block 5.

“It is true to say that the dogs effectively showed interest in the above-mentioned apartments, without giving an indication needed to their handler that they had [found] the presence of the trail of the missing child. It is also certain that the course that they made to the car park next to Block 6 was done without hesitation and in a most convincing manner.

- To better understand the routes taken by the dogs, there are attached four images/maps of the area of the Ocean Club resort, the route taken by the dogs from Block 5 to the car park being marked in red and yellow.

- Further, in an informal conversation with the GNR team, they advised that on the 4 May they had done the same work, with no control over the direction taken by the dogs, i.e. they were not directed into the buildings, it being certain that they took the same route described above, with the same attitude, losing the trail next to the car park of Block 6.”


-= Whether relevant or not , there is a phenomena that has been noted by many trainers / dog handlers, some dogs will follow a persons scent trail, often many days old, but fail to close in on that person if the subjects has died.

They may register the scent change but whether from fear, difference in odour, or some other reason may not approach the body, appear confused and display different behaviour.. In reality the dog is showing an aversion to the scent emitted by the dead body (cadaver).

Though the dogs change in behaviour was put down to waist foodstuffs, the S&R Dogs are trained scent discrimination dogs, but they are not trained to locate the scent of a cadaver.

“ the dog altered its behaviour, sniffing with greater intensity than he had done before. Apartment 5J of the same block was also checked as the dog had been more agitated than before as if there were a very strong strange odour there”

“Afterwards, the same kind of search was carried out using the dog Zarus which in general terms showed the same behaviour in the same places as Rex had done.”

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2043-evrd-and-csi-dogs

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Whose cadaver scent and bodily fluid was found in the McCann's apartment and hire car if not Madeleine's?  Shocked
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ufercoffy

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Re: EVRD and CSI Dogs

Post by YNG on 30.01.11 22:14

What false alert are they on about ? .... they need to read MG's report more carefully , the dog has never false alerted in training or operational work - to date.

If anyone does knows those dogs he does and he had no cause to lie .... or maybe they think he's part of the conspiricy to ' set them up ' laughat

Cheers for posting that utercoffy & keep us posted on what other nonesense they come out with sarcastic

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Re: EVRD and CSI Dogs

Post by ufercoffy on 30.01.11 22:18

To quote Martin Grime: 'People aren't right 100 per cent of the time. Otherwise they wouldn't be human.'

The worst thing about Pedro's post is that he says "coconuts I say!" in big capital letters....I wonder how the survivors of Haute de la Garenne feel about their experience being ridiculed by a McCann child neglect supporter?

Here is a post by 'Zoompad' - a surivivor: I wonder if Ali Bongo would have the guts to tell her that nothing worse than coconut shell was found at Haute de la Garenne? Luckily for Zoompad she has senator Stuart Syvret on her side because nobody needs the likes of Ali 'McCann child neglect lover' Bongo.

Zoompad has left a new comment on the post "my story" : http://operationrose.blogspot.com/2007/05/my-story.html

I was at Chadswell Assessment Centre, which was renamed several times, the Wissage and Riverside are two other names. I was put there because I had been raped by a family member and my parents didnt know how to handle my subsequent behaviour - I kept playing truant and locking myself into a room to scream, so they called Cocial Services and I had a Social Worker called Cynthia Weaver. They put me in that "home" which was an Approved School as a "Place of Safety". But it was not very safe, as the people there were raping kids, letting other people come into the home to have sex with kids. I didnt get raped while I was there, but I did get physically assaulted and locked into a cell for I dont know how long, because they kept the light on day and night and I became disorientated. They had two cardboard boxes of cloths which were full of uniforms, they made us take off our clothes and put a uniform on, and the girls uniform was made out of sort of diagonal striped stretchy stuff, with a thin belt of the same materiel.

I also used to curl up in a corner and shake, its hard to ever feel safe again, I am on the autistic spectrum, Aspergers Syndrome is genetic in our family, that does not make me stupid, but it means that I react very badly when I am under a lot of stress, and they put me in a psychiatric hospital for a year, because I was smearing urine snot and crap all over the cell and screaming and attacking anyone who came in to the cell. An expert in Aspergers Syndrome I have since seen told me that was a natural animal reaction, wild animals do the same sort of thing, to mark territory and to keep themselves safe. I sometimes freeze, and go completly blank, and people have to wave their hands in front of my face, but the trauma is still there, you cant "get over" it because you fear more persecution from people who are determined to cover it all up. I was dragged through the family court over a 7 year period, it was malicious whet they did to me, they wont let me have a life, its like they are lurking round waiting to pounce.

---------------------------------
Shame on all you McCann child neglect supporters shame on you

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ufercoffy

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Re: EVRD and CSI Dogs

Post by Cherry on 31.01.11 9:04

uffercoffy - The worst thing about Pedro's post is that he says "coconuts I say!" in big capital letters....I wonder how the survivors of Haute de la Garenne feel about their experience being ridiculed by a McCann child neglect supporter?


The Mccanns have told us they are aware of the sites on the internet discussing the case, why then do they not put a stop to these insults and offensive material aimed at the survivors in Jersey, for example, which in effect is offensive to all survivors of abuse.

Do these people not realise that for anyone to come out and say they are being abused/have been abused, is one of the hardest things to do, often for fear of not being believed, do they not care what damage these comments can do to people?

Don't these people feel that survivors of abuse have suffered enough, is it not enough to be abused and have your childhood taken away from you, with all the related consequences which are frequently brought into adulthood, without garbage being written which is offensive and insulting. Would these people be so flippant and nasty I wonder if a member of their own family had been abused?

Or are they of the view that if with a paedophile you will come to no harm, now where have I heard that view expressed before........ wasnt it Gerry Mccann who made that kind of remark that if Madeleine was with a paedophile she would come to no harm!
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Re: EVRD and CSI Dogs

Post by OMGlol on 31.01.11 11:26

YNG wrote:What false alert are they on about ? .... they need to read MG's report more carefully , the dog has never false alerted in training or operational work - to date.

According to Cath on PFA2 it's this:

Acknowledgement Pamalam

Volume VIIIa page 2190

3rd August 2007. 17.17 PM
Location: Apartment 5 A in the Ocean Club) Praia da Luz, Lagos

Participants:
1. PJ – Ricardo Paiva
2. UK Mark Harrison
3. UK Martin Grime, UK Forensic Canine P SM Expert
4. Keela – English Springer

The entire activity was filmed and recorded (sound).

On this date a new sniffer dog inspection was carried out in the apartment mentioned above, with the help of the dog Keela who detects human blood remains. The activity produced the following results:

19.19 The dog “marked” an area of tiles in the living room, next to the window and behind the sofa.

19.20 The dog “marked” the lower part of the left white coloured curtain of the window behind the sofa.

FSS report :

The curtains (286A/2007 - CR/L 16 and 16B) and the piece of white curtain (286B/2007 - CR/L 1) and the fragments of bushes (286/2007 CR/L 21) were examined for the presence of blood. No blood was found.


286A/2007-CRL 16 & 16B Two blue curtains and one white curtain
286B/2007-CRL 1 One white section of a curtain

These curtains were analysed for traces of blood, semen and saliva, none of which were detected.


Keela's alert does explain why they (the PJ/forensics) checked the wall and sent the curtains to the lab.

http://www.pfa2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2920&hilit=keela+false+positive
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Re: EVRD and CSI Dogs

Post by YNG on 31.01.11 12:06

A dog's olfactory system is so highly developed that it continues to be efficient at a cellular / molecular level. They are capable of finding traces in places and on items where there is not always physically retrievable evidence.

It must be difficult for some people to catch onto the idea of what dogs are capable of.


" All training and operational work is recorded and is evidence of the canine team’s reliability, the type and amount of training that the team has experienced before and after certification and confirmed operational outcomes can be used as a factor in determining their capability."



Another reason the curtain result gave nothing positive may be due to the actual material / stain found on the curtain could possibly have been bacterial, in which case it would not contain the distinct nucleus of the cells, making it impossible to identify.

One thing is certain, both dogs independently alerted in the area behind the sofa and a biological sample was retrieved from that same area which does not according to the report appear to conclusively rule out Madeleine as a contributor. To disregard this as a possibility in the case of a missing child is imo tantamount to negligence.


As for the the shrubbery , to my knowledge the shrubbery was not actually tested as a result of the dog alerting to it. Maybe someone should ask KM if and why she was pruning that particular shrub laughat

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