The bedroom window

by Judex Venturus 12.03.14 16:07

As far as I can tell, in all the discussions of the 'jemmied' open/shut bedroom window it has never been pointed out that the sill of the window in question is a good 10-12 feet above the pavement outside, and it is a sheer drop.

The window could not have been jemmied without the help of a ladder; a person could not climb in without scaling a ladder and to exit would have had to jump down about 10 feet. A child could not be 'passed out' through the window, only dangled or dropped!

See the window on Google earth on the Rua Doutor Francisco Gentil Martins, just up from the Ocean Club reception. Passing pedestrians in the image serve to show just how high the windows are. Google earth is also useful for viewing where on the same street JT, GM and JW were supposedly standing, and also shows exactly how far away the Tapas bar was.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 12.03.14 16:11

Judex Venturus wrote:As far as I can tell, in all the discussions of the 'jemmied' open/shut bedroom window it has never been pointed out that the sill of the window in question is a good 10-12 feet above the pavement outside, and it is a sheer drop.

The window could not have been jemmied without the help of a ladder; a person could not climb in without scaling a ladder and to exit would have had to jump down about 10 feet. A child could not be 'passed out' through the window, only dangled or dropped!

See the window on Google earth on the Rua Doutor Francisco Gentil Martins, just up from the Ocean Club reception. Passing pedestrians in the image serve to show just how high the windows are. Google earth is also useful for viewing where on the same street JT, GM and JW were supposedly standing, and also shows exactly how far away the Tapas bar was.

That's never been mentioned because it isn't true, the sill isn't 10-12 feet above the pavement outside. There are people on this forum who have seen the window in person, perhaps they could confirm this. I've seen photographs of people standing outside the window, and the sill is at waist height to an adult.

And the windows that you've mentioned are from the lounge and kitchen.

ETA - and welcome to the forum btw :)

by Judex Venturus 12.03.14 16:16

Sorry folks, I was looking at the wrong window! The Bedroom window was indeed at ground level and hidden at the back of the apartment, facing the car park and not visible from the street.
My second point however, re JT, GM & JW remains useful.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 12.03.14 16:20

Judex Venturus wrote:Sorry folks, I was looking at the wrong window! The Bedroom window was indeed at ground level and hidden at the back of the apartment, facing the car park and not visible from the street.
My second point however, re JT, GM & JW remains useful.

Key point for me - but not many others here! - is that the lounge window overlooks the spot where Gerry and Wilkins had their conversation (according to Willkins, not Gerry). It is underneath this window that Eddie the cadaver dog detected the presence of a cadaver, while on the evening of the 3rd the sofa appears to have been pushed over that area.

by ultimaThule 12.03.14 16:24

Judex Venturus wrote:As far as I can tell, in all the discussions of the 'jemmied' open/shut bedroom window it has never been pointed out that the sill of the window in question is a good 10-12 feet above the pavement outside, and it is a sheer drop.

The window could not have been jemmied without the help of a ladder; a person could not climb in without scaling a ladder and to exit would have had to jump down about 10 feet. A child could not be 'passed out' through the window, only dangled or dropped!

See the window on Google earth on the Rua Doutor Francisco Gentil Martins, just up from the Ocean Club reception. Passing pedestrians in the image serve to show just how high the windows are. Google earth is also useful for viewing where on the same street JT, GM and JW were supposedly standing, and also shows exactly how far away the Tapas bar was.

It seems you may have been looking at the side of the building which shows 2 of 5A's living room windows and, if memory serves, the kitchen window which look onto the road leading down to the entrance to the swimming pool complex and what was the Tapas Bar. The rear of the apartment overlooks this swimming pool complex.

When looking at the building from the front elevation, the window of the bedroom used by the children is situated to right of the front entrance door and its sill is around waist level for someone of average height.

Google earth has been used extensively on this forum for obvious reasons.

by Guest 12.03.14 16:36

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Judex Venturus wrote:Sorry folks, I was looking at the wrong window! The Bedroom window was indeed at ground level and hidden at the back of the apartment, facing the car park and not visible from the street.
My second point however, re JT, GM & JW remains useful.

Key point for me - but not many others here! - is that the lounge window overlooks the spot where Gerry and Wilkins had their conversation (according to Willkins, not Gerry). It is underneath this window that Eddie the cadaver dog detected the presence of a cadaver, while on the evening of the 3rd the sofa appears to have been pushed over that area.

The lounge apparently also had a tv-set, and might therefore have been referred to as the tv-room (where GM -as coyly hinted at by JT- supposedly languished watching football on tv, explaining his longish absence from the maddening crowd at the Magical Round Table)

by whatliesbehindthesofa 12.03.14 16:43

Portia wrote:
The lounge apparently also had a tv-set, and might therefore have been referred to as the tv-room (where GM -as coyly hinted at by JT- supposedly languished watching football on tv, explaining his longish absence from the maddening crowd at the Magical Round Table)

Agreed Portia, that is how I interpret the 'tv room' timeline entry.

by **PeterMac** 12.03.14 17:39

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Showing the TV. Scrunched up curtains with the sofa rammed back against them
and also something most interesting in the foreground ! !

by **tigger** 12.03.14 17:43

I'm doing my best here but there's a camera with the family toothbrush in front of it? winkwink

by Liz Eagles 12.03.14 17:51

PeterMac wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

Showing the TV. Scrunched up curtains with the sofa rammed back against them
and also something most interesting in the foreground ! !

Cor, that interior isn't a bit like the Crime Watch (UK) production. Not a white sofa nor a glass table with white chairs in sight.

by petunia 12.03.14 19:35

Tigger rather than it been a toothbrush could it be a pen? there is also some paper and a stickerbook by the looks of it.

by Guest 12.03.14 20:37

petunia wrote:Tigger rather than it been a toothbrush could it be a pen? there is also some paper and a stickerbook by the looks of it.

Bingo, very observant of you, Petunia! That must be the hapless sticker book indeed.

Plus glasses of water (?); there was time to pour them, but not to drink them

Plus a pink child's bathrobe (?) on the chair, or is that the original pink princess blanket; there seems to be a sort of string at the back for fastening?

Plus a beige pull on same chair, indicating quick change of clothes (color coordinated with buttoned beige pants on the bed?). On the other pictures taken inside the apartment, aside from these pants and KH's Birkenstocks, you don't see any clothes worn by any familymember during the day. They will have been put out of sight before going off to the Tapas. So why the need to take off the beige shirt and pants at a certain moment between leaving the Tapas and the arrival of the Police(photographer)?

by kimHager 12.03.14 21:08

Also the camera... I know the PJ wanted the camera I wonder did they ever get it? And a digital is no good if the memory card is taken out which probably had some interesting pictures.

by kimHager 12.03.14 21:10

The curtains were also bunched over like someone was Watching for someone or something outside.

by canada12 12.03.14 21:32

aquila wrote:
PeterMac wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

Showing the TV. Scrunched up curtains with the sofa rammed back against them
and also something most interesting in the foreground ! !
Cor, that interior isn't a bit like the Crime Watch (UK) production. Not a white sofa nor a glass table with white chairs in sight.

Here are some similar photos below, but these photos of the living / dining room show that some things have been moved around and there's an additional object. When did this happen - when was the photo above taken, and the photo below?

There's a black object of clothing draped over the end of the couch in the PJ photo below. And if you look closely at an enlarged picture of the dining table, there is a clipboard with papers on top, and a pen laid over the top. I wonder what this clipboard contained, as it looks like it had a lot of pieces of paper and notes. It's missing from the photo above.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 12.03.14 21:35

Is that another camera on the little coffee table?

by canada12 12.03.14 21:39

dantezebu wrote:Is that another camera on the little coffee table?

I can't tell. The picture's too grainy. I have a Mac with really good resolution and I can see it's something shiny. And there's a black object I can't identify.

by Guest 12.03.14 21:39

Unfolded map left hand side of table;

Pair of sunglasses on map;

Pink thing on chair is KH's cardigan with hood; she probably wore it to the Tapas (?) discarding it inside the apartment on her return

by canada12 12.03.14 21:41

On the bureau in the top picture, near the piles of books, there's something pink. Which looks like it could be the pink hat that Madeleine was pictured wearing at the pool. If that is her pink hat, then why didn't Kate and Gerry give that to the police who a) wanted something with Madeleine's scent on it and b) something which might have had her DNA on it?

by Guest 12.03.14 21:46

canada12 wrote:On the bureau in the top picture, near the piles of books, there's something pink. Which looks like it could be the pink hat that Madeleine was pictured wearing at the pool. If that is her pink hat, then why didn't Kate and Gerry give that to the police who a) wanted something with Madeleine's scent on it and b) something which might have had her DNA on it?

Right

And why not hand over the sticker book too, which might also have retained her smell if she had touched it

Instead of which they sent her clothes to the OC laundry straight away, for the first time since arriving there; Dr. Amaral found out one or two days later, much regretting their action

by Tangled Web 12.03.14 22:37

canada12 wrote:
dantezebu wrote:Is that another camera on the little coffee table?

I can't tell. The picture's too grainy. I have a Mac with really good resolution and I can see it's something shiny. And there's a black object I can't identify.

The black object looks like a toy Dalek from Doctor Who. We have plenty of these! According to KM/GM MM loved Doctor Who (bit young IMO).

by **PeterMac** 12.03.14 22:50

tigger wrote:I'm doing my best here but there's a camera with the family toothbrush in front of it?

Follow the camera.
And from there it becomes fascinating.
That photo was taken about 2am.
Long after the entire village was searching but the McCanns had gone to bed., and long after one of the Tapas group had 'taken our camera' to make the silly posters

That photo may be a key (remember that word ?) to the entire 'Mystery"
Even Dr Amaral started to have second thoughts about it, when they viewed it with the Leics Pol, but by then it was too late.
Kate had got it back. As she so accurately reports in her book (Prosecution document KH 1, refers)
and from there a whole new conspiracy theory develops . . .

by ultimaThule 12.03.14 23:20

kimHager wrote:The curtains were also bunched over like someone was Watching for someone or something outside.

You'd think that after making Madeleine's bed so neatly after she'd been removed her from it, the abductor would have straightened the living room curtain they moved to peer out of the window in order to make sure Gezza and Jezza had gone their separate ways, wouldn't you?

Oops! I forget. AR's revelation showed him, and us, that the abductor couldn't have been in the apartment until a few minutes before Kate came in to ~~raise the alarm~~ do her check. Surely the abductor wasn't looking out for Kate to leave the Tapas?

by ultimaThule 12.03.14 23:24

PeterMac wrote:
tigger wrote:I'm doing my best here but there's a camera with the family toothbrush in front of it?
Follow the camera.
And from there it becomes fascinating.
That photo was taken about 2am.
Long after the entire village was searching but the McCanns had gone to bed., and long after one of the Tapas group had 'taken our camera' to make the silly posters

That photo may be a key (remember that word ?) to the entire 'Mystery"
Even Dr Amaral started to have second thoughts about it, when they viewed it with the Leics Pol, but by then it was too late.
Kate had got it back. As she so accurately reports in her book (Prosecution document KH 1, refers)
and from there a whole new conspiracy theory develops . . .

The McCanns seem to be prone to having items 'taken' from them but at least, as auntie Phil said, nothing of value was taken from the apartment, the relief of which no doubt allowed them to sleep soundly that night ~~and every night since the event~~.

by Judex Venturus 13.03.14 0:45

I have so much admiration for the many intelligent posters on here that I feel absolutely dreadful that my very first post should contain such a goofy mistake!
Admin, could you possibly please "whoosh" my first post so that I can 'move on' ?? I do have more accurate comments to make in future posts!! Thanks!!