Things that bug me with this case...

by Saamagni 14.02.13 15:14

Hi, I´m new to this forum and this is, I believe, my first comment ever in a forum. I´m from Sweden and I have read a lot about this case. The first thing that alerted me when I read about the "abduction" of Madeleine back in 2007 was the fact that the parents left their very small children unattended every night while dining with friends. I thought of that as very, very irresponsible. Small children do wake up and when they do, most often, they start crying because they feel scared, lonely or bored and they might get up and do something that could hurt them. Or maybe they don´t, if they´re sedated.

I really questioned the judgement of the parents leaving their small children alone; is this a common practice around the world? I don´t think so.

Another thing that strikes me as ABSOLUTELY unlikely is the MccCann´s behavior the next hours and days that followed the alleged abduction. I speak from experience; our oldest son, at the time 7 years old, went missing when we were on holiday in France. He was only gone for about ONE HOUR (sic) but I can tell you that that one hour was the worst I have ever experienced. I was running around like a maniac, asking every person I saw "avez-vous vu un petit garçon?". You don´t think about setting up a foundation or anything, you just want to go to every house and alley and shrubbery to search and keep on doing that until you find your child. And you´re not very rational in your thinking. Luckily, our son showed up after having climbed a small mountain by himself just to prove that he could.

I think Leif G W Persson, the Swedish professor in criminology, is right when he says: "She is dead, that is obvious but the parents will never confess if they´re guilty. If it turns out to be someone else and not the parents there is reason for us to be ashamed. Their lives are ruined. If they´re guilty there is justice in this but if they haven´t done it, then it´s horrible." Aftonbladet Plus, publicerad: 2007-09-15

by Guest 14.02.13 16:15

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Saamagni

by Mariita 14.02.13 21:39

Hello Saamagni!
Tonight the 'Madeleine-last hope' documentary was shown in swedish television at channel Tv4 fakta, did you see it? I had already seen bits of it on Youtube, but it was interesting to see it in complete - though nothing revolutionary was said. I remember when it was discussed here on the forum last year, just after it had been broadcasted in the UK television. Andy Redwood expressed so much hope when he talked about reviewing all the material...and the 195 leads..which, now 9 months later, led where?
Välkommen hit i alla fall, det finns ju inte så jättemånga forum i Sverige som diskuterar detta! Flashback forum vet jag har en lång tråd om Madeleine, har du kollat där?

by Inspectorfrost 14.02.13 22:08

Hi Saamagni, join the club!

by Guest 14.02.13 22:11

Välkommen
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by plebgate 15.02.13 1:32

Saamagni wrote:Hi, I´m new to this forum and this is, I believe, my first comment ever in a forum. I´m from Sweden and I have read a lot about this case. The first thing that alerted me when I read about the "abduction" of Madeleine back in 2007 was the fact that the parents left their very small children unattended every night while dining with friends. I thought of that as very, very irresponsible. Small children do wake up and when they do, most often, they start crying because they feel scared, lonely or bored and they might get up and do something that could hurt them. Or maybe they don´t, if they´re sedated.

I really questioned the judgement of the parents leaving their small children alone; is this a common practice around the world? I don´t think so.

Another thing that strikes me as ABSOLUTELY unlikely is the MccCann´s behavior the next hours and days that followed the alleged abduction. I speak from experience; our oldest son, at the time 7 years old, went missing when we were on holiday in France. He was only gone for about ONE HOUR (sic) but I can tell you that that one hour was the worst I have ever experienced. I was running around like a maniac, asking every person I saw "avez-vous vu un petit garçon?". You don´t think about setting up a foundation or anything, you just want to go to every house and alley and shrubbery to search and keep on doing that until you find your child. And you´re not very rational in your thinking. Luckily, our son showed up after having climbed a small mountain by himself just to prove that he could.

I think Leif G W Persson, the Swedish professor in criminology, is right when he says: "She is dead, that is obvious but the parents will never confess if they´re guilty. If it turns out to be someone else and not the parents there is reason for us to be ashamed. Their lives are ruined. If they´re guilty there is justice in this but if they haven´t done it, then it´s horrible." Aftonbladet Plus, publicerad: 2007-09-15
MY RESPONSE.
Just wondering why the Professor feels there is reason for us to be ashamed. Possibly because so many have expressed their disbelief at the abduction theory.

If the police ask the mother of a missing child 48 questions that if not answered make the police believe that the search will be seriously harmed then I believe that many many people around the world would be wondering why the the questions were not answered at the time and still remain unanswered.
This is one reason why I find it hard to believe that an abduction took place. Somebody has your child - possibly a paedophile - why would you not answer any quesitons the police feel will help find her.
The police ask the mother a 49th question which the mother answered - are you aware that in not answering the previous 48 questions then you risk harming the search for your daughter (words to that effect). The mother answers yes, if thatis what the police think (words to that effect).
So no, if maddie is found alive and well I will be very, very happy for her and all of her family, but I will not feel ashamed for asking questions and finding it hard to accept that an abduction took place.

Why would we feel ashamed

by plebgate 15.02.13 1:39

Sorry put my response in the middle of the original post. Don't know how to sort it out so will leave it as it stands.

by Truthmustout 15.02.13 8:50

Mariita wrote:Hello Saamagni!
Tonight the 'Madeleine-last hope' documentary was shown in swedish television at channel Tv4 fakta, did you see it? I had already seen bits of it on Youtube, but it was interesting to see it in complete - though nothing revolutionary was said. I remember when it was discussed here on the forum last year, just after it had been broadcasted in the UK television. Andy Redwood expressed so much hope when he talked about reviewing all the material...and the 195 leads..which, now 9 months later, led where?
Välkommen hit i alla fall, det finns ju inte så jättemånga forum i Sverige som diskuterar detta! Flashback forum vet jag har en lång tråd om Madeleine, har du kollat där?

Velkommen, mysig och se to fra nabolandet, tror jag er den enda norska her ! welcome

by Mariita 15.02.13 12:11

Hej Moa-Vanilla, jag tror det finns någon här från Danmark också...vet inte om det stämmer, men tror en medlem, 'Aniandr' är dansk!
Now I'd better skip the minoritylanguage[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Sorry to read about trouble you had previously Moa-Vanilla; I'm glad that it's over. (As I've understood there are some really weird people whose main mission is to harass those who want to see justice made for Madeleine. One glance at another forum revealed the whole spectrum of psychiatric diagnoses. Or maybe it was just one poster with multiple personalities).

by Inspectorfrost 15.02.13 22:13

Feeling ashamed? Why? If anyone has an informed opinion by themselves from all theyhave read and seen on TV, whyshould they feel ashamed

Someone is trying to make people feel guilty

There IS no guilt in suspecting people with all the Mccans and their minions have done and said, all their discrepancies and all their lies

It IS true no one knows what the truth is but it is also true that people have the right to point out LIES and havethe freedom to speak and voice opinions instead of being frightened to like the mccanns and some of their supporters try to do

No bugger should EVER even try to remove that,freedom of thought and expression, its actually a HU MAN right

Feel shame? ON YOUR BIKE, could be wrong inthe case, but not but guilt and shame?NEVER as opinions were honest, so bugger off and farm out your own guilt elsewhere

by plebgate 15.02.13 23:37

Didn't the top detective (can't remember his name) say that Maddie's father should be looked at due to discrepancies in his statement.
Doubt he feels any shame because he noticed discrepancies.

by Truthmustout 16.02.13 0:09

Mariita wrote:Hej Moa-Vanilla, jag tror det finns någon här från Danmark också...vet inte om det stämmer, men tror en medlem, 'Aniandr' är dansk!
Now I'd better skip the minoritylanguage[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Sorry to read about trouble you had previously Moa-Vanilla; I'm glad that it's over. (As I've understood there are some really weird people whose main mission is to harass those who want to see justice made for Madeleine. One glance at another forum revealed the whole spectrum of psychiatric diagnoses. Or maybe it was just one poster with multiple personalities).

Im glad to see my neigbours take interest in the case :) im sure if this happened in my country they would have been threaten different atleast with the neglect of leaving the children as that would never been accepted here . No way it would and neither in Sweden or Denmark I believe... I don't think it's the general norm in England either leaving the kids alone to go wine and dine, if you would not do it at home there is no reason to do it on Holliday. Why did they even bring the kids if they don't want to spend time with them? And how could they even relax during dinner knowing the children where all alone?
In two days my daughter will be the exact age as Madeleine where when she disappeared , I'm going to try carry her at the same time as the alleged abducter JT saw, to see if she will wake up , how far will I get before she wakes?

There is just to much 'what dafuq' moments in this case ,even if I want to believe their story I can't due to all the facts in it pointing away from an abduction..

by **PeterMac** 16.02.13 8:07

Moa-Vanilla wrote:
In two days my daughter will be the exact age as Madeleine where when she disappeared , I'm going to try carry her at the same time as the alleged abducter JT saw, to see if she will wake up , how far will I get before she wakes?

Don't forget you have to get into the room silently through a locked door or a shuttered window, pick her up and then turn her round so that her head moves from your right arm to your left arm, then you have to climb out of a very narrow window, or go through the front door, into the cold night air, and walk across the car park and then across the road.

You have 2 minutes and ten seconds, and your time starts . . . NOW>

by **tigger** 16.02.13 8:31

PeterMac wrote:
Moa-Vanilla wrote:
In two days my daughter will be the exact age as Madeleine where when she disappeared , I'm going to try carry her at the same time as the alleged abducter JT saw, to see if she will wake up , how far will I get before she wakes?
Don't forget you have to get into the room silently through a locked door or a shuttered window, pick her up and then turn her round so that her head moves from your right arm to your left arm, then you have to climb out of a very narrow window, or go through the front door, into the cold night air, and walk across the car park and then across the road.

You have 2 minutes and ten seconds, and your time starts . . . NOW>

- and you have to carry her on your outstretched arms for a considerable distance. Mind your back!

by Liz Eagles 16.02.13 8:34

...and you have to be careful not to disturb the sheets on the bed.

by Guest 16.02.13 8:57

Saying it as it is Inspectorfrost, fully agree with all your comments. I have never and never will feel guilt or shame in my opinions of the McCann's.

by Mirage 16.02.13 13:05

aquila wrote:...and you have to be careful not to disturb the sheets on the bed.

... and be sure not to leave any fibres from your clothing.

by Mariita 16.02.13 21:05

Moa-Vanilla wrote:
Mariita wrote:Hej Moa-Vanilla, jag tror det finns någon här från Danmark också...vet inte om det stämmer, men tror en medlem, 'Aniandr' är dansk!
Now I'd better skip the minoritylanguage[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Sorry to read about trouble you had previously Moa-Vanilla; I'm glad that it's over. (As I've understood there are some really weird people whose main mission is to harass those who want to see justice made for Madeleine. One glance at another forum revealed the whole spectrum of psychiatric diagnoses. Or maybe it was just one poster with multiple personalities).

Im glad to see my neigbours take interest in the case :) im sure if this happened in my country they would have been threaten different atleast with the neglect of leaving the children as that would never been accepted here . No way it would and neither in Sweden or Denmark I believe... I don't think it's the general norm in England either leaving the kids alone to go wine and dine, if you would not do it at home there is no reason to do it on Holliday. Why did they even bring the kids if they don't want to spend time with them? And how could they even relax during dinner knowing the children where all alone?
In two days my daughter will be the exact age as Madeleine where when she disappeared , I'm going to try carry her at the same time as the alleged abducter JT saw, to see if she will wake up , how far will I get before she wakes?

There is just to much 'what dafuq' moments in this case ,even if I want to believe their story I can't due to all the facts in it pointing away from an abduction..

That's also something I have been thinking of, what if this had happened with some family from here. Some years ago there was a family and the son was taken from his parents by social services who placed him in a fosterfamily. Their 'crime': the parents had chosen to homeschool the boy. His father is swedish, and his mother comes from India. Before this happened thay had planned to live in India for a while (working with some project), so they wanted to homeschool him partly to prepare him for the school in India but also because he didn't feel comfortable in the swedish school. So school reported to the social services, and the very same day the family had boarded the airplane to India and were about to take off, the police entered and took the boy with them! The parents have since that day tried to get their son back, but he is still in fostercare...Hopefully no employee at that office of social services would regard homeschooling worse than childneglect, so Madeleine's parents would, in such a scenario, probably have lost custody of the other children IMMEDIATELY.

About the way the abductor carried Madeleine, couldn't Jane Tanner have changed that too...? She changed so many other things due to the improved memory, one more improvement had made no difference!! It just looks so ridiculous[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Truthmustout 16.02.13 21:45

I agree they would lost custody immediately in my country aswell.
And I will let you know how my "abduction" goes :) I will let my man be the abductor as he is stronger than tiny little me I will not manage to Carrie her like JT claimed she saw ! And for the record she is also taller than 90 cm she was 92 at almost 3 years old, and we are not a very tall family either, like K and G. I'm like 157 cm big grin

Tallest one in my family is 166cm..and yes I will remember to turn her around so the feet points in the correct direction big grin

and I will leave no traces, open the shutters and window and the blanket will lay there perfectly fine.. Good luck me doing this in 2/3minutes.

The reason IMO JT did not think of the fault by having the feet point at her direction is that she needed to see the pyjamas to confirm it was Madeleine. And how on earth, thinking of the egg face she first describe, and how dark it was, was able to see the colors of the pyjamas ? I have a hard time believing the police believes this story.. They just can't be that dumb ! It's obviouse the entire JT sighting is humbug a big fat lie !
And In her recorded interview also saying "I carried her"...big Freudian slip IMO !

by Mariita 16.02.13 22:22

Right, and now I figured out why this man carrying a sleeping child wasn't seen by anyone until 30-40 minutes later again...He hid somewhere RESTING his arms and thinking of a more comfortable style to continue the abduction, right in time to meet the Smith family.

by Guest 16.02.13 22:28

Mariita wrote:Right, and now I figured out why this man carrying a sleeping child wasn't seen by anyone until 30-40 minutes later again...He hid somewhere RESTING his arms and thinking of a more comfortable style to continue the abduction, right in time to meet the Smith family.

***
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that's a good one to close [for me] for tonight ...

by Inspectorfrost 17.02.13 1:58

Cherry Blossom wrote:Saying it as it is Inspectorfrost, fully agree with all your comments. I have never and never will feel guilt or shame in my opinions of the McCann's.

Thanks, and that is exactly how it should be, bullying scaring and guilt tripping stinks
thumbsup