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Constitutional monarchy vs republic: which is the best form of government? Mm11

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Constitutional monarchy vs republic: which is the best form of government? Mm11

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Constitutional monarchy vs republic: which is the best form of government?

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Post by kaz 09.04.21 19:01

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I thought I'd split this thread from Prince Philip's Tribute thread because this issue of pro-anti monarchy comes up quite often - and this has no place on that thread. Surely modern Monarchy cannot be compared to something that happened before they were even born?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The Queen will continue to carry out her duties and uphold the solemn vow she made.

Queen Elizabeth has never faltered.
Er...she said and did nothing as Edward Heath conspired to rob us of our sovereignty in 1973 by signing up to the Common Market.

When Queen Elizabeth I ascended the throne in 1558, the country was effectively run by the Papacy, with Queen Mary's Bishops burning Protestants by the hundreds for 'heresy'. When the joint Papal-Spanish Armada threatened our country in 1588, Queen Elizabeth I and her Ministers saw off the threat. 

Queen Elizabeth II lost our country's independence on 1 April 1973 and only the Herculean efforts of Nigel Farage and the much-derided U K Independence Party won it back for us 47 years later. 

And still she hasn't uttered these words:

Arise, Sir Nigel Farage!   



Absolutely right.
The concept of a  ''Royal '' Family is an anachronism in the 21st century . They are the very personification of class division and the quicker they are removed the better. Just an unelected branch of the Globalist family.
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Post by Liz Eagles 10.04.21 0:55

So what are you saying kaz?

Get rid of the monarchy and become a Republic?

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Post by Verdi 10.04.21 1:41

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The concept of a ''Royal '' Family is an anachronism in the 21st century . They are the very personification of class division and the quicker they are removed the better. Just an unelected branch of the Globalist family.

That's a very broad unqualified statement to make as regards the Royal family, a centuries old British constitution. A constitution that has built the framework of Great Britain and the commonwealth!

Personification of class division eh? Once upon a time there was something idealized as a class system , low middle and high class, perhaps led by the aristocracy at the top of the ladder, politicians and such like middle ladder and the man on the street at the bottom of the ladder - the working man and woman - those who actually graft to survive.

That system of hierarchy has long since been replaced by wealth - no matter where the social standing. A footballer, a pop star, a high street store, an internet consortium,wherever the money is, that's where the hierarchy is today. The system is no longer about class in the true sense of the word, it's all about money.

I watched the decline from within when working for years in central London. The aristocracy was gradually eroded in terms of wealth and standing and replaced by the Beckhams and Bransons of the world.

The aristocracy has been the backbone of Britain since time immemorial, don't trash it without good reason.

Does it harm you personally? I doubt it ....

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Post by kaz 10.04.21 8:17

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:All this aside, HRH the Duke of Edinburgh died at the ripe old age of 99 years, following a life of service and dedication to Queen and country.

Show some respect!


Oh dear. The serfs have spoken
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Post by BlueBag 17.04.21 20:15

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Our beautiful and gracious future Queen...or King Consort, or whatever her title will be.
You know this is soap opera right?
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Post by Jill Havern 17.04.21 20:58

I suppose it is to anti-monarchists, but I come from a military family who love the Royal Family.

Although a certain person is trying her best to turn it into a soap opera.

I feel sad that the end of an era is soon to be upon us when we lose our Queen aswell.

sad

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Post by CaKeLoveR 17.04.21 23:10

It wouldn't hurt anti-monarchists to give their spite a rest on the occasion of a funeral.
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Post by BlueBag 18.04.21 7:24

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:It wouldn't hurt anti-monarchists to give their spite a rest on the occasion of a funeral.
It's not spite.

A system where you end up with tyrants like Henry VIII (amongst many) should have no part in a democratic system.

I never ever saw the point of Royalty and I think Monty Python put it most brilliantly in "The Holy Grail" film.

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Post by BlueBag 18.04.21 7:34

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Personally I favour Prince Charles, despite his historic inappropriate behaviour. 
I didn't vote for someone who wanted to be reincarnated as a tampon.

His treatment of Diana was appalling.

Anyway... that's my view on monarchy done... fascinating from a historical point of view but I hope we all see it for what it really is someday.
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Post by PeterMac 18.04.21 7:43

"A system where you end up with tyrants like Henry VIII (amongst many) should have no part in a democratic system."


Well quite, but we have moved on slightly since then.  The regicidal Republic and Dictatorship of Cromwell - who we should remember nominated HIS OWN son to succeed him, shows exactly what Republicanism brings.  Britain learned a harsh lesson during that time.

When we talk of tyrants I venture to suggest that there are significantly more to be found in Republics and Dictatorships – which are the inevitable result –  throughout history.   I hesitate to list them here as some readers will not yet have had breakfast. 

A constitutional Monarchy is the least bad option, in that it separates Head of State from Head of Government and in so doing thwarts the ambitions of Politicians
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Post by BlueBag 18.04.21 7:56

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:"A system where you end up with tyrants like Henry VIII (amongst many) should have no part in a democratic system."

Well quite, but we have moved on slightly since then.  The regicidal Republic and Dictatorship of Cromwell - who we should remember nominated HIS OWN son to succeed him, shows exactly what Republicanism brings.  Britain learned a harsh lesson during that time.

When we talk of tyrants I venture to suggest that there are significantly more to be found in Republics and Dictatorships – which are the inevitable result –  throughout history.   I hesitate to list them here as some readers will not yet have had breakfast. 

A constitutional Monarchy is the least bad option, in that it separates Head of State from Head of Government and in so doing thwarts the ambitions of Politicians
I think it is only 100 years since three cousins were all fighting each other and millions died.

Same family as today actually.
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Post by Jill Havern 18.04.21 9:18

Well, that's one way to end a tribute thread I suppose.

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Post by sequested 18.04.21 9:31

Aside from all the above, surely everyone agrees : no-one does pomp & ceremony like the Brits !
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Post by CaKeLoveR 18.04.21 10:39

The pomp and ceremony are what I would really miss.
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Post by Jill Havern 18.04.21 11:37

I thought I'd split this thread from Prince Philip's Tribute thread because this issue of pro-anti monarchy comes up quite often - and this has no place on that thread. Surely modern Monarchy cannot be compared to something that happened before they were even born?


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Personally I favour Prince Charles, despite his historic inappropriate behaviour.
I didn't vote for someone who wanted to be reincarnated as a tampon.

His treatment of Diana was appalling.

Anyway... that's my view on monarchy done... fascinating from a historical point of view but I hope we all see it for what it really is someday.

His actual cringeworthy quote was "Or, God forbid, a Tampax. Just my luck!", so hardly the same as what you suggest.

Besides, someone had to illegally hack his phone to get that highly personal conversation between two lovers before publishing it all over the media so the whole world could see it. That is equally sick.

As for Diana, maybe you should see what Lady C has to say on the matter to give that episode some balance. Neither of them come out of it particularly well.

All that aside, does it really mean the Monarchy should be abolished?

Imagine President Wurzle Johnson...

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Post by Liz Eagles 18.04.21 12:28

There is a very vociferous former editor of a tabloid newspaper who got away with phone hacking allegations and allowing fake photographs of British troops committing acts of atrocity to be plastered on the front pages of his rag.

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Post by Verdi 18.04.21 15:36

Excellent idea to split the topic and create a new thread for a very controversial subject.

2thumbs

Over yonder, the clue is in the word 'TRIBUTE'.

Whether or not you support the monarchy is irrelevant.

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Post by PeterMac 18.04.21 17:57

Blair clearly had ambitions to be President of Europe, and like all absolute dictators would have no doubt extended his rule to become President for Life, and his son as Heir Apparent.  

If you want to see how it REALLY works look at Putin. Did his legally allowed 2 terms, then swapped jobs with the Prime Minister, and whilst in charge of the Legislature changed the law.  And then swapped back again, but this time with no time limit. 
Cromwell was succeeded by his son, Richard, who had little or no experience of Military or civil administration and was forced to stand down within a year.

The Kim Dynasty of North Korea is an absolute Monarchy by any other name, in a supposedly Communist state

Stalin was succeeded by Four people who vowed to be "Equals". It didn't last long.  Malenkov who had executed and exiled thousands of intellectuals was himself exiled.  Beria was executed, Molotov was exiled to Mongolia, leaving...  Khrushchev, who was presented to the world as a moderate.

The french revolutionaries included Marat who organised the massacres of hundreds of innocent civilians including girls age 10, and boys of 12, found "Guilty by his "committees". The same committees which sent their own Robespierre and Danton to the Guillotine.   

And of course in France we then saw Napoleon, in Germany the one we do not name, in Italy Mussolini, Spain Franco, Portugal Salazar and Caetano.  In the USA we have seen Nixon, Bush, and several others, mercifully held to their 4 years by the Constitution. Modern France has seen Chirak, Turkey has Erdogan

Republics do not seem to work.  They are like Socialism.  It seems a good idea, but only superficially.   When you mine deeper and start actually thinking about it the true horror is revealed.
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Post by Liz Eagles 18.04.21 21:52

The opening word is Blair.

That is enough to satisfy any sceptic that evil comes from republicanism.

Monarchy might seem Hobson's choice but I'd take it any day over the EU.

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Post by BlueBag 19.04.21 15:17

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I thought I'd split this thread from Prince Philip's Tribute thread because this issue of pro-anti monarchy comes up quite often - and this has no place on that thread. Surely modern Monarchy cannot be compared to something that happened before they were even born?


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Personally I favour Prince Charles, despite his historic inappropriate behaviour.
I didn't vote for someone who wanted to be reincarnated as a tampon.

His treatment of Diana was appalling.

Anyway... that's my view on monarchy done... fascinating from a historical point of view but I hope we all see it for what it really is someday.

His actual cringeworthy quote was "Or, God forbid, a Tampax. Just my luck!", so hardly the same as what you suggest.

Besides, someone had to illegally hack his phone to get that highly personal conversation between two lovers before publishing it all over the media so the whole world could see it. That is equally sick.

As for Diana, maybe you should see what Lady C has to say on the matter to give that episode some balance. Neither of them come out of it particularly well.

All that aside, does it really mean the Monarchy should be abolished?

Imagine President Wurzle Johnson...


CHARLES: Or, God forbid, a Tampax. Just my luck! (Laughs)
CAMILLA: You are a complete idiot! (Laughs) Oh, what a wonderful idea.
CHARLES: My luck to be chucked down a lavatory and go on and on forever swirling round on the top, never going down.
CAMILLA (laughing): Oh darling!
CHARLES: Until the next one comes through.
CAMILLA: Oh, perhaps you could just come back as a box.
CHARLES: What sort of box?
CAMILLA: A box of Tampax, so you could just keep going.
CHARLES: That’s true.
CAMILLA: Repeating yourself … (laughing). Oh, darling, oh I just want you now.
So...


Charles is mad for "The Great Reset" as well.
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Post by Liz Eagles 19.04.21 15:43

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I thought I'd split this thread from Prince Philip's Tribute thread because this issue of pro-anti monarchy comes up quite often - and this has no place on that thread. Surely modern Monarchy cannot be compared to something that happened before they were even born?


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Personally I favour Prince Charles, despite his historic inappropriate behaviour.
I didn't vote for someone who wanted to be reincarnated as a tampon.

His treatment of Diana was appalling.

Anyway... that's my view on monarchy done... fascinating from a historical point of view but I hope we all see it for what it really is someday.

His actual cringeworthy quote was "Or, God forbid, a Tampax. Just my luck!", so hardly the same as what you suggest.

Besides, someone had to illegally hack his phone to get that highly personal conversation between two lovers before publishing it all over the media so the whole world could see it. That is equally sick.

As for Diana, maybe you should see what Lady C has to say on the matter to give that episode some balance. Neither of them come out of it particularly well.

All that aside, does it really mean the Monarchy should be abolished?

Imagine President Wurzle Johnson...


CHARLES: Or, God forbid, a Tampax. Just my luck! (Laughs)
CAMILLA: You are a complete idiot! (Laughs) Oh, what a wonderful idea.
CHARLES: My luck to be chucked down a lavatory and go on and on forever swirling round on the top, never going down.
CAMILLA (laughing): Oh darling!
CHARLES: Until the next one comes through.
CAMILLA: Oh, perhaps you could just come back as a box.
CHARLES: What sort of box?
CAMILLA: A box of Tampax, so you could just keep going.
CHARLES: That’s true.
CAMILLA: Repeating yourself … (laughing). Oh, darling, oh I just want you now.
So...


Charles is mad for "The Great Reset" as well.
Blue Bag, you know by now I hope how much I read, think long and hard about what you write. 

Have you never said something bonkers in your life? If you haven't I'll pick up your tab for you. 

This was phone hacking.

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Post by CaKeLoveR 19.04.21 15:49

Exactly, that private conversation should never have been made public. The person who did so must have been very well paid to do such a vile thing.
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Post by Jill Havern 19.04.21 16:06

How do we even know it was them and not a couple of impersonators or that the transcript wasn't modified? It would seem the hacker has remained anonymous.

Even Prince Harry was pranked.

What the hacker did was far more sick than a sick, private conversation. Why was it in the public interest to do such a thing?

Even so, does having a strange sex life mean the Royal Family should be abolished? Does having an affair mean the RF should be abolished?

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Post by Verdi 19.04.21 16:37

Everybody knows that potential husbands and wives for prominent royals, like in line for the throne, are vetted in advance of marriage arrangements.  To be sure the spouse is good quality and ripe for reproduction.

If luckly, as I believe her Majesty was, they might well find committment love and romance but it's not guaranteed.

In my view Diana Spencer was one such chosen one, her only function was to produce heirs (not graces titter ), she served that purpose but failed to live-up to the standards required of a spouse integrated into the Royal household.  Meghan Markle is another such fall-out as was Sarah Ferguson.

The three of them together and apart have cause irreparable damage to the Monarchy.

Adventurers with little to offer but everything to take.

No point trying to trash Prince Charles on fabricated charges without knowing the full story.  

I believe Prince Charles is genuinely committed to environmental issues.  He's worked hard over the years to revive home farming and organically grown produce - nothing wrong with that!  Okay, if you want to call him a hypocrite because he drives super environmentally unfriendly cars and flies across the world in private jets but he's heir to the throne - what do you expect him to do, hitch a ride on a passing tandem or fly by kite?  Would you?  Nah, I didn't think so ....

We are all guilty of the same!

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Post by Tony Bennett 19.04.21 21:28

Upthread I criticised Queen Elizabeth II because, when the diabolical Sir Edward Heath steered us oh-so-craftily into sliding into a European Union that would eventually take away all our sovereignty, she did nothing. As far as we know, that is.

As the sovereign of this country, she let her sovereignty over us gradually dissipate.

I know some will say: "But she's a constitutional monarch, she's not allowed to interfere in political decisions". 

Maybe so. But surely NOT when it comes to giving our sovereignty, our hard-won independence, away?

Are our monarchs any use? YES, judging by the last two we have had.

King George VI played a vital role in World War II. He was instrumental in calling the nation to several National Days of Prayer. At critical points, up to half the nation crowded into our churches and prayed fervently to our Almighty God. Did those prayers work? Look at Hitler's unbelievable decision not to press his attack on Dunkirk for several days, and the days of calm that facilitated the D-Day landings - and tell me that these prayers were not heard, and answered rom Heaven.

Queen Elizabeth II (and other members of the Royal Family) have served our country brilliantly as ambassadors for our nation, and in keeping together that all-important legacy of the British Empire - the Commonwealth.

Very few in our country would turn out for the funeral of any politician. Millions will turn out to mourn our Queen when she dies. So, yes, I favour a constitutional monarchy over a republic.

It's just that she blotted her copybook by not demanding a national referendum BEFORE we went into the Common Market.

P.S. I would go to Nigel Farage's funeral. He has done more than anyone for the long-term future of our country.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett
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