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Post by Verdi on 01.05.19 1:00

It would appear, the only interest the PJ investigation had in Urs von Aesch, was a vehicle owned by the man. He was ruled out of the investigation as nothing indicated involvement.  

I venture to suggest Hewlett was the  individual referred to, he was after all heavily promoted by the McCanns private investigators as a likely candidate for paedophile abduction - more so as he was closer to meeting his maker when hospitalized in Germany.

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Post by Phoebe on 01.05.19 1:41

When Urs Von Aesch shot himself on 31 st July 2007 the police discovered his van (with Spanish number plates) in the woods some 24 kms away from the missing girl (Ylenia Lenhard's) home. The missing girl's body was discovered some weeks later. Apparently, Swiss authorities made contact with British police to see if there was any link to Madeleine's disappearance. Some newspapers immediately suggested a link as both girls were blond and of similar age. One would think that if the van was the link it would have been tested for Madeleine's DNA at the time and if anything was to be found it would have been uncovered then.
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Post by Verdi on 01.05.19 1:48

01 Cartas Rogatorias I Pages 59 to 60
cr1_59
cr1_60


VERY URGENT

IP LISBON

Information to IP London ? IP Lyon SG


Our Reference IP/105/342394/CLA

Subject: Urs Hans Von Aesch born on 11/11/1940, Swiss citizen, suspected of attempted murder, child abduction etc, missing girl, YLENIA LENHARD born on 18-11-2001 in Switzerland.

With regard to our urgent request dated 17-8-2007 with regard to the offer made by the St Gallen police force of the availability of Urs Hans Von Aesch?s vehicle to the investigating authorities in Portugal working on the disappearance of Madeleine McCann as mentioned previously. There is no apparent connection between the case of Madeleine and the disappearance of Ylenia Lenhard in Switzerland but this hypothesis cannot be completely disregarded.

The vehicle belonging to the suspect Urs Hans Von Aesch (Renault Traffic, number plate A5472CT) is currently in a guarded area, having been the subject of forensic laboratory tests, but the authorities working on this investigation are waiting for your decision before dismantling the vehicle.

For your information:
On 21-08-2007 IP London responded with the following:

?Following your message of 17-08-2007 with regard to the vehicle belonging to the individual mentioned above, we checked that it was sent to Interpol Lisbon. We inform however, that we also sent an investigative team to Portugal by means of the link created by the police force of the UK with the aim (we hope) to guarantee a reply to your offer?.

We would be grateful if it could be taken into consideration that we urgently require your decision before 5-9-2007 given that a meeting into the investigation is planned for 6-9-2007.

We thank you for informing us. About what is possible, your intentions.

With thanks

IP Berna

3-9-2007

mccannpjfiles.co.uk

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Post by Verdi on 01.05.19 1:50

01 Cartas Rogatorias I Page 61
cr1_61
Fax

From: Interpol Office


Date: 06-08-2007


To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation


Subject: Madeleine Beth McCann

Text:

For your knowledge and related to the message from IP Berna about the suicide of the Swiss citizen Urs Hans Von Aesch, I am sending you the translation of the message received from IP Wiesbaden.


With compliments

GNI Chief

Ana Mafalda Duarte

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Post by Verdi on 01.05.19 2:01

As I said, there is no evidence to suggest Madeleine McCann was abducted so this really is a moot point, not worthy of discussion. It was the McCanns and their team who propagated the paedophile abduction, for reasons best known to themselves and I can only guess, that simple fact speaks for itself.

Please, let's move forward not backward.

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Post by NickE on 01.05.19 9:02

@Verdi wrote:Why is this issue even being discussed?  

Madeleine McCann was not abducted - full stop!

Mark Saunokonoko's Madeleine McCann Podcasts - Page 17 364218ad-e899-4962-9e47-5e946d9df535
Probably because this German debacle was discussed in Episode 9 and this thread is a discussion about Episode 9.

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Post by aquila on 01.05.19 13:56

What is left is a podcast in Australia (and it is quite excellent in its production) attempting to embarrass Operation Grange and to stir up a social media maelstrom.

Portugal holds primacy in the investigation.

The little girl who went missing deserves better.
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Post by Jill Havern on 01.05.19 14:13

I did suggest to Mark Saunokonoko by email on 26th March to contact Paulo Reis (as he can translate) in order to pass the information to the PJ as it's pointless rattling the OG cage.

He said it was a good idea and that he would let me know how things unfolded. I haven't heard anything further.
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Post by aquila on 01.05.19 14:59

There is no will from Portugal or UK to solve this case. No will at all.
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Post by PeterMac on 01.05.19 17:58

@aquila wrote:There is no will from Portugal or UK to solve this case. No will at all.

I tend to the view that there is a definite will – to try NOT to solve it.

Imagine if the Portuguese put together a coherent case
What would it be ?
Bit of "fail to report a death", one count of –  well what ?
We know that Child abandonment under Portuguese law must involved a significant element of intent that the child comes to harm.
(And we also know that there was very probably NO Abandonment, of any of the 8 children at any time !  All they have to do is adduce that in evidence in court and - boom !)
 They prosecute.   
The finest QCs from the England and the best lawyers in Portugal are brought in,.
The prosecution fails.

Imagine if the English put together a coherent case
What would it be ?
Fraud. ?
But to prove that they have to prove that they knew knew that Madeleine was dead
And no one admits anything, and no one ever will, and they don't have to.
The prosecution is on a "no Comment" interview.  Charge on a denial.
Even if the CPS went ahead, bearing in mind their policy on more than 50% or even 75% likelihood of conviction, and public interest . . .
The finest QCs from the England and the best lawyers in Portugal are brought in,.
The prosecution fails

Now what ?

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Post by aquila on 01.05.19 18:11

@PeterMac wrote:
@aquila wrote:There is no will from Portugal or UK to solve this case. No will at all.

I tend to the view that there is a definite will – to try NOT to solve it.

Imagine if the Portuguese put together a coherent case
What would it be ?
Bit of "fail to report a death", one count of –  well what ?
We know that Child abandonment under Portuguese law must involved a significant element of intent that the child comes to harm.
(And we also know that there was very probably NO Abandonment, of any of the 8 children at any time !  All they have to do is adduce that in evidence in court and - boom !)
 They prosecute.   
The finest QCs from the England and the best lawyers in Portugal are brought in,.
The prosecution fails.

Imagine if the English put together a coherent case
What would it be ?
Fraud. ?
But to prove that they have to prove that they knew knew that Madeleine was dead
And no one admits anything, and no one ever will, and they don't have to.
The prosecution is on a "no Comment" interview.  Charge on a denial.
Even if the CPS went ahead, bearing in mind their policy on more than 50% or even 75% likelihood of conviction, and public interest . . .
The finest QCs from the England and the best lawyers in Portugal are brought in,.
The prosecution fails

Now what ?
Now what? Now what means a little girl's demise in Portugal is nothing more than a feeding frenzy in the media - and that's not good enough.
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Post by Verdi on 06.05.19 17:02

Mark Saunokonoko's Madeleine McCann Podcasts - Page 17 F935a374-af28-4f0d-aa2e-dbe7d4a57c83

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Post by Jill Havern on 08.05.19 12:54

Mark Saunokonoko‏Verified account @saunokonoko 33m33 minutes ago
Maddie update: E10 out around lunchtime Thursday (Sydney time). Sorry for delay, we're close. #McCann #Maddie
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Post by Jill Havern on 09.05.19 6:51



Podcast 10

What happened that night in Room 5A? Final episode explores and tests the theories which attempt to explain how a small three-year-old girl has been missing since 2007.

All 10 podcasts are saved here, in the Reference forum: https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t16240-mark-saunokonoko-s-podcasts-madeleine-mccann
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Post by Phoebe on 09.05.19 13:28

Just finished listening to episode 10. Well done to Mark Saunokonoko for displaying the courage so lacking among MSM when it comes to discussing this case. Whether one agrees with his  "take" on things or not it is refreshing and heartwarming to see that someone in MSM is prepared to speak out and to give voice to others who have been silenced. :hat:Episode 10 gave answers to questions often asked. The P.J have been alerted to the Dr. Perlin information and his offer. There is yet no response from the British authorities or the McCanns themselves. We now know for sure that Dr. Amaral continues to stand by his theory of death on May 3rd (it has often been said that we don't know his current views - now we do).
Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree that both the P.J. and Op Grange  have no desire to rock the boat in terms of re investigating the possibility of Madeleine having died and her abduction being faked. Hopefully this podcast will reach a wide audience thereby helping to make it harder for the case to be quietly put to bed by pinning the crime on some patsy.
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Post by Verdi on 09.05.19 13:43

Mumble mumble mumble mumble mumble ....

Again, for what it's worth, a good podcast.  Easy on the ear and in-line with Gonçalo Amaral's view of the case back in the day, with the addition of a narrative through the eyes of an American criminal profiler, Pat Brown.

Now I could be completely wrong here but I seem to recall Mark Saunokonoko saying, at the end of episode 9, that his hour long conversation with Amaral would be included in the episode 10. I've just again listened to the end of episode 9 and this is what I now hear..

In the next episode of Maddie, Gonçalo Amaral and a criminal profiler examine some potential theories about events of May 3 in an attempt to answer the biggest question of all .... what happened to Madeleine McCann.

Perhaps the podcast had to be edited for some reason, or perhaps I imagined itI don't think I imagined it because it piqued my interest leading me to be quite enthusiastic about episode 10.

There is very little contribution in episode 10 and even then it's only repetition.  There is nothing new about the theory of a body being frozen, it's been widely publicized and debated for many a year.

Yes, of course it's possible and as gruesome as it might sound, it happens.  I'm surprised Mr Saunokonko needed to seek clarification.

That aside, I'm very disappointed in this latest episode.  I genuinely thought I was going to hear the full conversation between Mark Saunokonko and Gonçalo Amaral.  All I hear are a few mumbled words in the background drowned by the voice of an interpreter.

Shame.

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Post by PeterMac on 09.05.19 13:47

It is a very interesting and good way of approaching a subject.   Detectives do it all the time during interview.
Accept the initial story and the probe each point, getting the interviewee to elaborate.
Never challenge, just ask for further and better particulars, until you are in a position to show that someone else says something totally different, or that you have absolute proof that what has just been said is not true.

In this case he did it, yet again, with the Tanner passing GM and JW.  Simply states what each of them said, 
forcing GM to the other side of the road,  and ends with JW putting his cross on the map exactly where JT had said.
He crucially does not then gloat that GM has been caught out lying (again)
He doesn't need to.
The facts speak for themselves.

And with the sedation, having dealt with it and the denials by the McCanns, then cuts to a recording of GM accepting that it must have happened.   (As detailed in Chapter 5 a long time ago incidentally.  
http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2016/08/chapter-5-sedation.html
where I show that they initially admitted, then denied, then admitted, then threatened to sue, and finally admitted again.

Neatly Mark simply juxtaposes recording of GM denying, with recording of GM admitting.
Again no comment is needed.  
The facts speak for themselves.

I hope it isn't the last one.

And exploring the refusal of the Tapas 7/9 to go anywhere near a reconstruction the point is made that it was
to test whether the stories all fitted neatly together, or whether they all fell apart.
They all refused.  No further comment is needed.  The facts speak from themselves

Res ipsa loquitur, as lawyers used to say

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Post by Verdi on 09.05.19 16:46

So, the bit right at the end of the podcast, the last credits, tells the true story.

As I long suspected.

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Post by HiDeHo on 10.05.19 0:24

@Verdi wrote:So, the bit right at the end of the podcast, the last credits, tells the true story.

As I long suspected.

I am hoping that's not meant as a negative comment?

Myself and all my admin are proud to have had the opportunity to ensure that Mark had all the facts and links that he needed over his last two years of research.  I'm sure that goes for the others also.

Was really nice to know that he appreciated our input and went out of his way to thank us all. (as well as those that wanted to remain anonymous)

Such a great podcast and well received by so many.  Nothing less that he and his team deserve.

As I said when I opened this thread.... Is this what we have all been waiting for?  I certainly believe it is and though the 10 podcast series has finished I am sure it's a good possibility there is more to come from Mark.
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Post by Cammerigal on 10.05.19 7:21

@HiDeHo wrote:
@Verdi wrote:So, the bit right at the end of the podcast, the last credits, tells the true story.

As I long suspected.

I am hoping that's not meant as a negative comment?

Myself and all my admin are proud to have had the opportunity to ensure that Mark had all the facts and links that he needed over his last two years of research.  I'm sure that goes for the others also.

Was really nice to know that he appreciated our input and went out of his way to thank us all. (as well as those that wanted to remain anonymous)

Such a great podcast and well received by so many.  Nothing less that he and his team deserve.

As I said when I opened this thread.... Is this what we have all been waiting for?  I certainly believe it is and though the 10 podcast series has finished I am sure it's a good possibility there is more to come from Mark.
Aussie journalist Mark Saunokonoko clearly concludes in episode 10 (May 3) at the 1.01.28 point; 
"Maddy died in the apartment 5a". 
"Her body was disposed of, but by Who?"
" There is evidence that points to possible answers".......

A big shout out and thanks to Mark S and his team of AUSTRALIAN Channel 9 for going where UK journos fear to tread/are gagged/spin and for critically investigating this sad story over 10 x 1 hour podcasts. 
Well done to HideHo and PeterMac for their valued inputs.

And Mark, if your read this; Channel 9 now need to step-up and turn your podcasts in to a fair-dinkum ' 60 minutes' TV investigation. The Brits can then see it on Youtube
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Post by Verdi on 10.05.19 13:37

I'm sorry PeterMac wasn't featured a lot more than just the window shutter mechanism.  When you consider the extent of his past work reflected in his free e-book..

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/

Still, I guess his conclusions on many issues, didn't quite fit-in with the mainstream thesis - I call that selective marketing.

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Post by aquila on 10.05.19 13:57

In recent times, both Pat Brown and Colin Sutton have engaged with Australian media. Both have said they were misquoted.

I see no objections by either Pat Brown or Colin Sutton to say they have been misquoted by Channel 9's podcast.

Mark Saunokonoko is not charged with solving the mystery of Madeleine's disappearance, that is the job for police in two countries and this forum cries out for those police in high ranks to do their duty.

As docos go, this has to be the best and bravest to date within the realms of not saying too much for fear of being sued. As to whether it will make the police do their duty is another matter.
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Post by Verdi on 10.05.19 16:41

It adheres strictly to the Amaral thesis of yesteryear, strongly supported by Pat Brown and assorted social media'ites.

If nothing else, it's given ammunition for a greater divide between contrasting theorists, which is a shame because I prfefer to think we are a united force working towards the same ultimate goal - justice in the name of Madeleine McCann, rather than internecine war created by discord on different aspects of the case.  I would have been more positive if I saw evidence of true investigative journalism, rather than pulling on the power of social media.

My final word on the subject - if you've got sensitive information that can't be divulged, then keep it to yourself, don't tell the world.  Or to put it bluntly .... put up or shut up!

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Post by Jill Havern on 13.05.19 5:10

'Concealed' police statements impeded investigation into potential paedophile ring link, ex Maddie detective claims

By Mark Saunokonoko
11:18am May 13, 2019

British police allegedly "concealed" statements in the Madeleine McCann case and impeded a line of inquiry into possible links to an international paedophile ring, according to allegations from the Portuguese detective who led the 2007 investigation.
Speaking in Episode 10 of Maddie, nine.com.au's podcast investigation into Madeleine's disappearance, Goncalo Amaral made a series of stunning claims in a rare interview with English-speaking media.
Mr Amaral detailed a potential line of inquiry he believed may have helped work out what happened to Madeleine. It involved the possibility of an international paedophile ring that may have had links to people close to, or in contact with, the McCann family, without the McCanns' knowledge.



He claimed some statements which may have been relevant to that line of inquiry had been initially withheld by British police, who at the time were working in tandem with the Portuguese.
"The British authorities tried to conceal the statement and nothing was done about this statement," Mr Amaral said.
"They were not followed up. Nobody investigated anything related to them."
Mr Amaral alleged his team of detectives had asked British police for further information about a potential person of interest but were informed they held "absolutely nothing" of significance.

"Of course … when the British police stated that they did not have any information, they already had the statements," he said.
"So, there is this issue with the British police concealing information that they already had.
"When the statements finally arrived, they came mixed up with other papers," Mr Amaral alleged.

Nine.com.au contacted the Leicestershire Police about the claims but was referred to Scotland Yard's Operation Grange. A Scotland Yard spokesperson declined to comment.
Further details about the explosive allegations from Mr Amaral are detailed in Episode 10 of Maddie, which charted at number 1 in the UK, Australia and New Zealand soon after its March release.
Last weekend nine.com.au reported how Mr Amaral said his team of detectives had been searching for a mystery apartment where they believed Madeleine's body could have been temporarily hidden in a freezer.
He said before that line of inquiry could be concluded he was removed from the case in October 2007.
Mr Amaral was replaced after he was quoted in a newspaper criticising British police who were on the ground in Praia da Luz.

Kate and Gerry McCann, both doctors from Rothley, Leicestershire, have strenuously denied they were involved in the disappearance of their daughter, and nine.com.au does not suggest any involvement on their part.
Portuguese and British police have both conducted huge investigations which have so far failed to find the missing girl or arrest any suspects.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/madeleine-mccann-police-statements-buried-investigation-goncalo-amaral-podcast/eeefd421-5429-463e-b013-0e84556ee6ac
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Post by Verdi on 13.05.19 13:14

It would appear he, Gonçalo Amaral, through an interpreter conversing with Mark Saunokonoko, is here referring to the Gasper statements.

If I'm correct, the above is very misleading and will give the listener/reader a totally wrong impression of the PJ investigation.  As stand alone information, it implies that the PJ were following the paedophile abduction hypothesis.  If you listen to the whole podcast it wouldn't become any clearer, it was a mistake to include those brief moments of an interpretation of a few M. Amaral words.  They are meaningless, it would have been far better to use direct quotes from the PJ files, or The Truth of the Lie - it's all there for anyone that's interested.

I do detest release of these little snippets of information.  It's like taking one sentence from David Payne's rogatory epistle and basing your entire case on that alone.  It might draw the crowds and make you number one on the hit parade but that's not what this is all about - it's about, or should be about, trying to unravel the truth behind Madeleine McCann's mysterious disappearance.

It's tantamount to sensationalism.

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