Re: The emails from Michael Sangerte (off topic/split section)

by jmbd 04.03.10 22:20

jkh wrote:
jmbd wrote:but your cat wasn't abducted.

Nor was Maddie.

You found your cat - Madeleine has not been found.

by Kololi 04.03.10 22:20

None of us know with 100% certainty what fate occured to Madeleine.

Take care

by Cath 04.03.10 22:20

jkh wrote:Actually, it would make me do more to prove my innocence

Interesting thought. How can you prove you didn't hide a body?

by **Jill Havern** 04.03.10 22:21

hedge wrote:
jkh wrote:
hedge wrote:
jkh wrote:
hedge wrote:
jkh wrote:
hedge wrote:
jkh wrote:What were the police supposed to do when Maddie's own parents flatly refused to cooperate with every part of the investigation?

They wouldn't answer questions, they wouldn't take part in the official reconstruction although they preferred to do their own televised version. Not even Maddie's grandparents requested the investigation remain open.

That's a complete nonsense and you know it. They complied and made themselves available for months, this is all well documented stuff. However on being informed that the police thought their daughter dead (without evidence) and them involved (again without evidence), Kate refused to answer questions under arguido status as was her right that she had answered before and that were frankly mental questions designed to do nothing to help her child.

That's it, one two hour refusal in extremely trying circumstances compared to months of being there available for anything.

Right.

Well, if Maddie were my child I would do everything to help the investigation. Everything.

But not defend yourself from false accusations or stop liars making money selling books asserting your child is dead. You would just shrug that off?

I would find my child first then deal with the rest in that order.

You don't think that the general public thinking you are a murderer or at the very least hiding your childs body would have any effect on the search or in fact your own safety and that of the rest of your family?

Actually, it would make me do more to prove my innocence and do what I could to help the investigation and prove people wrong. But I don't see the McCanns doing that. They just seem hell bent on suing people and gathering as much cash as they can. Maddie seems to be an afterthought.

Hell, I did more than they did when my cat went missing. I found my cat, too.

Were people sticking up posters saying you had killed your cat, did your local paper have a picture of you with 'cat killer' across the front page, did the following weeks edition point out that you had neglected your cat anyway and frankly served to have your cat taken away because how else would the cat have got away unless it had been abandoned in some way by you, did you believe that someone had taken your cat and did you worry that if they had your cat and then read the horrible stories blaming you think well they might get away with it and keep your cat?

by bunny 04.03.10 22:22

Kololi wrote:None of us know with 100% certainty what fate occured to Madeleine.

Take care

And that is the point. You take the path that wont harm the search.

by **Jill Havern** 04.03.10 22:22

jmbd wrote:
jkh wrote:
jmbd wrote:but your cat wasn't abducted.

Nor was Maddie.

You found your cat - Madeleine has not been found.

Is that why we're all still here three years later?

by jmbd 04.03.10 22:22

jkh cat not found = jkh did something to her cat and hid it.

by vaguely1 04.03.10 22:24

paracetamol is extremely toxic to cats.

just sayin'

by hedge 04.03.10 22:25

jkh wrote:
hedge wrote:

Were people sticking up posters saying you had killed your cat, did your local paper have a picture of you with 'cat killer' across the front page, did the following weeks edition point out that you had neglected your cat anyway and frankly served to have your cat taken away because how else would the cat have got away unless it had been abandoned in some way by you, did you believe that someone had taken your cat and did you worry that if they had your cat and then read the horrible stories blaming you think well they might get away with it and keep your cat?

It was a genuine question, I thought you were trying to compare you looking for a lost cat to what the Mccanns experienced.
I don't think you realise how much public support is needed when one is looking for a 3 year old child in a world of billions of people of which perhaps only one or two know something. To have people actively trying to write off your child as dead and gone for no apparent reason other than they don't like their childcare choices is a. astoundingly cruel and b. incredibly damaging to the childs chances.

by **Jill Havern** 04.03.10 22:26

Tell that to Eddie and Keela.

by jmbd 04.03.10 22:26

irrelevant - you find something missing = innocent.

You don't find something missing = guilty.

by jmbd 04.03.10 22:27

jkh wrote:Tell that to Eddie and Keela.

erm - they don't understand human talk.

by Cath 04.03.10 22:28

vaguely1 wrote:paracetamol is extremely toxic to cats.

just sayin'

= FACT (not a myth)

by hedge 04.03.10 22:29

jkh wrote:Tell that to Eddie and Keela.

tell what to eddie and keela, that nothing was found to substantiate their alleged positive reactions. I don't think I'll bother, they are dogs, it would be like breaking the news to the crime scene powder brush that the fingerprint it helped be lifted turned out to be just a smudge.

by **Jill Havern** 04.03.10 22:30

jmbd wrote:
jkh wrote:Tell that to Eddie and Keela.

erm - they don't understand human talk.

They don't need to, they have noses. Noses that find pensioners in burnt out cars.

You know, if those dogs had alerted to scents like that in my holiday apartment I would ask the cops to investigate not make up some stupid excuses about rotting meat and dirty nappies.

by bunny 04.03.10 22:30

Jill, I know you are coping with lots of posts here but I would really like to know how you know the McCanns involved and exactly how sure you are of this. Are you 100% positive there was no abductor?

by hedge 04.03.10 22:32

jkh wrote:
jmbd wrote:
jkh wrote:Tell that to Eddie and Keela.

erm - they don't understand human talk.

They don't need to, they have noses. Noses that find pensioners in burnt out cars.

You know, if those dogs had alerted to scents like that in my holiday apartment I would ask the cops to investigate not make up some stupid excuses about rotting meat and dirty nappies.

What makes you think they didn't investigate, it's all in the files. There is no evidence that madeleine came to any harm in that apartment, why is that not enough for you? they can't pretend there was just to make you feel ... happy?

by Kololi 04.03.10 22:32

bunny wrote:
Kololi wrote:None of us know with 100% certainty what fate occured to Madeleine.

Take care

And that is the point. You take the path that wont harm the search.

Fair enough but let's assume that we are all sat here in another six years and there is still no conclusive proof of what really happened to Madeleine.

How many more sightings should be investigated?
How much more money should be used to search for her? (Portuguese peoples money I mean, not the money willingly being offered by people to the fund for that purpose)
How many more years will the world's public be expected to think of this child above all other missing children?
When is it ok for those of us who have more cynical minds to think - well you know what I mean?

Sorry for being harsh and maybe I need a dose of the optismism that some of you peeple amaze me with. Fire away - my hand is outstretched awaiting the slaps. big grin

Take care

by vaguely1 04.03.10 22:35

Kololi wrote:
bunny wrote:
Kololi wrote:None of us know with 100% certainty what fate occured to Madeleine.

Take care

And that is the point. You take the path that wont harm the search.

Fair enough but let's assume that we are all sat here in another six years and there is still no conclusive proof of what really happened to Madeleine.

How many more sightings should be investigated?
How much more money should be used to search for her? (Portuguese peoples money I mean, not the money willingly being offered by people to the fund for that purpose)
How many more years will the world's public be expected to think of this child above all other missing children?
When is it ok for those of us who have more cynical minds to think - well you know what I mean?

Sorry for being harsh and maybe I need a dose of the optismism that some of you peeple amaze me with. Fire away - my hand is outstretched awaiting the slaps.

Take care

They should just review the case and make a decision on whether to re-open it. They can't keep going and just investigate every sighting etc. They need to go back the grass roots of the investigation. imho.

I don't think the public are expected to put Madeleine above other children. The public make that choice.

by hedge 04.03.10 22:37

Kololi wrote:
bunny wrote:
Kololi wrote:None of us know with 100% certainty what fate occured to Madeleine.

Take care

And that is the point. You take the path that wont harm the search.

Fair enough but let's assume that we are all sat here in another six years and there is still no conclusive proof of what really happened to Madeleine.

How many more sightings should be investigated?
How much more money should be used to search for her? (Portuguese peoples money I mean, not the money willingly being offered by people to the fund for that purpose)
How many more years will the world's public be expected to think of this child above all other missing children?
When is it ok for those of us who have more cynical minds to think - well you know what I mean?

Sorry for being harsh and maybe I need a dose of the optismism that some of you peeple amaze me with. Fire away - my hand is outstretched awaiting the slaps.

Take care

For the sake of Madeleine and her family and friends I hope that this is all over in 6 years but I suppose look at other missing person cases, regular appeals once a year on her birthday. Age progressions done every few years at landmark ages, the occasional media flurry when someone comes forward on a slow news day and claims to have seen her in various summer resorts.
I think we can all see the horror stretching in front of us.

No need to worry about me slapping, sadly my view is also that she is most likely dead, the statistics of children that age suriviving abductions is not great, but while there is no evidence to show it then her parents must have hope and must be supported in that hope because they don't have any choice.

by bunny 04.03.10 22:40

SLAP

The case should not have been closed. The files should have been investigated properly and madeleine should not have been marked irrelevant by Pavia.

Now, who can say what is going to happen in the coming months or years? no one. However, if it was your child missing would you walk away?

There are cases that have gone cold in the U.K. That are still investigated when information comes in.

I cant say when it is the right time to give up. Im not a police officer and Im not a relative of the McCanns. Its not my call.

that said there is a 2000 page dossier that by the looks of it hasnt been properly investigated. That shouldnt have happened and when the story went out the New Zealand police got a phone call from the father of that gilr within 24 hours. THAT is what should have happened in the first place and this information should NOT sit in a filing tray

by Kololi 04.03.10 22:41

Yes it does seem that so many mistakes were made by so many people and anybody who is a victim in such circumstances deserves to have it properly looked at again, and I do mean Madeleine here. She was the true innocent in all this.

I wouldn't agree necessarily that the public do always have the opportunity to make that choice though Vaguely. What about some of the children on Amber's website. Their disappearance is not promoted to the public in the way that Madeleine's is so the public do not get to make a choice.

Take care

by Kololi 04.03.10 22:47

Ouch Bunny, that stung......

Whilst even with a half full glass I can see room for more wine to be poured in, I am not a huge optimist and if it was my child I would probably begin to fear the worse long before the McCanns appear they will for Madeleine.

I think in my heart I would always carry a torch and do double takes on people who reminded me of my child but I am not sure that I would expect the rest of the world to do the same after this time. Maybe I would shock myself if put in that situation - it's only guesswork we can do as to how we might react if having to walk a mile in their shoes.

Take care

by hedge 04.03.10 22:47

Kololi wrote:Yes it does seem that so many mistakes were made by so many people and anybody who is a victim in such circumstances deserves to have it properly looked at again, and I do mean Madeleine here. She was the true innocent in all this.

I wouldn't agree necessarily that the public do always have the opportunity to make that choice though Vaguely. What about some of the children on Amber's website. Their disappearance is not promoted to the public in the way that Madeleine's is so the public do not get to make a choice.

Take care

I would say that Madeleine's story just hit all the right notes to capture the imagination of the public, 3 years old, stable family homelife (no chaotic homelife, criminal elements, broken home, not snatched by a parent), a family we could all relate to, taken from her bed, a place where children should be safe from all harm, on holiday, again a happy place where families should be safe and full of fun. Childcare practice that while perhaps not perfect in retrospect, one that is used by a large number of parents who would consider themselves responsible. Articulate parents but ones that appear to have been largely abandoned and not surrounded by nice comforting looking uniformed PCs but standing in a windy holiday resort in the dark with a torch and a scrap of paper in front of a tv crew.

No wonder we could't get enough of it.

by vaguely1 04.03.10 22:48

Kololi wrote:Yes it does seem that so many mistakes were made by so many people and anybody who is a victim in such circumstances deserves to have it properly looked at again, and I do mean Madeleine here. She was the true innocent in all this.

I wouldn't agree necessarily that the public do always have the opportunity to make that choice though Vaguely. What about some of the children on Amber's website. Their disappearance is not promoted to the public in the way that Madeleine's is so the public do not get to make a choice.

Take care

But that is the choice of the press - Madeleine is their new Diana (the cynic in me says)

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