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Something is happening...say quite a few people

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by The Rooster on 15.10.15 20:49

Why spend £10m to bury it. Just let it go silent.

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by hogwash on 15.10.15 20:55

The Rooster wrote:Why spend £10m to bury it. Just let it go silent.
Is it known how much the Princess Diana, Iraq War, Jill Dando, Dr Kelly (etc) cases cost to whitewash them?
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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by roy rovers on 15.10.15 21:05

'...suddenly! Nothing happened! But it happened suddenly....' Spike Milligan - 'Adolf Hitler - My Part in His Downfall'.
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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by pennylane on 15.10.15 21:10

The Rooster wrote:Why spend £10m to bury it. Just let it go silent.

We saw endless intimidation, manipulation and xenophobia in the early days because the HO wanted the Portuguese to only consider a stranger abduction, no matter how much evidence pointed towards the McCanns. The HO also stalled the investigation by not turning over basic information on the parents, thus further insuring they escaped justice (imo).  However, the PJ stuck to their guns, and wouldn't change direction in spite of the enormous pressure.  The HO then set up Operation Grange in the hopes of once again honing in on the Portuguese investigation.... (imo).

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by aquila on 15.10.15 21:29

pennylane wrote:
The Rooster wrote:Why spend £10m to bury it. Just let it go silent.

We saw endless intimidation, manipulation and xenophobia in the early days because the HO wanted the Portuguese to only consider a stranger abduction, no matter how much evidence pointed towards the McCanns. The HO also stalled the investigation by not turning over basic information on the parents, thus further insuring they escaped justice (imo).  However, the PJ stuck to their guns, and wouldn't change direction in spite of the enormous pressure.  The HO then set up Operation Grange in the hopes of once again honing in on the Portuguese investigation.... (imo).
Someone upthread also asked why the CPS would be out in Portugal.

There are two investigations. Scotland Yard UK and PJ Portugal. The Portuguese release case files into the public domain when a case is closed/shelved. The UK police doesn't. Whilst there is a UK investigation in progress this might be the reason for the CPS to visit Portugal. As long as there is a UK investigation in progress then there might just be an agreement to be made on that front.

Just a thought.
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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by The Rooster on 15.10.15 21:51

Penny lane I hear what you say but a white wash with this level of exposure defies logic and reason.

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by pennylane on 15.10.15 22:14

The Rooster wrote:Penny lane I hear what you say but a white wash with this level of exposure defies logic and reason.
Thing is, I don't think it is a white wash by normal standards, due to the fact that the crime happened abroad. In a normal Establishment cover up or whitewash, they would know what files should accidentally 'go missing' or what hands to pass the information through.  This is a different kettle of fish, and normal rules don't apply. So they are fighting an uphill battle in whatever it is they are protecting or trying to make disappear.... perhaps?

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by Tony Bennett on 15.10.15 22:22

The Rooster wrote:Pennylane I hear what you say but a white wash with this level of exposure defies logic and reason.
At times like this, @ The Rooster, I bring to mind the wholesale involvement in this case of the top levels of the British government and the security services, such as, in this case:

* PM Gordon Brown - made the PJ release Jane Tanner's fabricated sighting, told the Portuguese govt to get rid of Amaral
* PM David Cameron - badgered by Rebekah Brooks into setting up Operation Grange
* PM Tony Blair - appointed his top Media Monitoring man, Clarence Mitchell, to run PR for the McCanns for 8 years
* Govt-funded Control Risks Group brought in
* MI5 involved
* Special Branch give lifts to the McCanns, meet them at the airport etc.
* Security services profile Murat as the likely abductor
* Home Sec Jacqui Smith holds up Rogatory interviews and blocks disclosure of documents
* British Ambassador says - let the McCanns wash their clothes
* Henri Exton, former Head of Covert Intelligence at MI5 brought in to manufacture dodgy efits of the Smiths  
* Kevin Halligen with defence industry connections brought in
* Freedom of Information requests refused on grounds of 'national security
* Secret top-level committee set up chaired by Chief Constable of Leics, Matt Baggott, on 8 May 2007, govt. refuse FoI Act request asking to disclose who sat on it...

...and more.    
   

And then I bring to mind this quote, from Josef Goebbels, the head of the Nazi propaganda machine: 

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

It worked for Adolf Hitler.

Why should it not be working right now for Operation Grange? 

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by The Rooster on 15.10.15 22:28

Penny lane maybe you are correct. If the MCCanns are protected it must be a truly heinous crime. I feel  faint at the thought. Nonetheless I remain positive. May I point out I have total respect for all comments this Jill's forum. I didn't mean to add this emoticon don't know how to get rid.

[ A Moderator has stepped in to help you yes ]

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by The Rooster on 15.10.15 22:39

Thank you for the admin assist

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by pennylane on 15.10.15 23:03

The Rooster wrote:Penny lane maybe you are correct. If the MCCanns are protected it must be a truly heinous crime. I feel faint at the thought. Nonetheless I remain positive. May I point out I have total respect for all comments this Jill's forum.
You're not alone in feeling positive, Rooster.  There are a lot of people like yourself who cannot comprehend The Home Office/Op Grange wasting all this time and money for nothing.   Anyway, let's hope your right, as the alternative is so depressing.

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by snook on 15.10.15 23:38

Madam Poulton and Man Booker prize winner in waiting know nothing. More a case of look how important I am. These people have an audience to keep enthralled. 

The McCanns know nothing from OG hence, I believe, the very rare voice of 'a source close to the family' lately.

Mitchell is wheeled out when there is a feeling that they are losing even more public support as when a big mouth in the guise of webmaster stuck her size 9's in it.

I wouldn't like to make a call as to why OG continues to rack up huge costs and is granted a seemingly endless budget for a case which Inspector Clouseau could solve in a week. Even the most naïve and unexperienced constable would struggle to declare the parents innocent of any culpability a la Redwood and a more apt statement to have made would be that all options ( mentioning no names), are still on the table.

Given the above, only my opinion of course, points to some kind of struggle being played out. The Mc's are almost irrelevant and justify no cover up on their own and certainly not such an expensive one therefore the protection must be to conceal something or someone else. Whatever it was/is must have been of utmost importance to the Blair/Brown government. Cameron bowed to Murdoch pressure but I sense a distinct cooling of affection towards the public face of the façade, ie the Mccanns themselves, which may indicate less of a will to cover whatever was so important in '07.

If I recall, politicians were falling over themselves to lend sympathy to the grieving couple but just as the celebrity contingency fell away when it got a whiff of sea bass. So is, I believe political support.

Maybe, just maybe OG continues whilst those with the real power fight it out amongst themselves regarding the outcome? Whitewash is favourite but perhaps we will be pleasantly surprised? 

Surely when it finally does end there will be the inevitable review, lessons learned etc ? If for no other reason than that, whatever the final conclusion someone will have to justify and account for all that tax payers money?
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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by The Rooster on 16.10.15 11:21

I know Tony, you're not wrong in the above post, but why if theres a cover up are they airing the laundry in public that's the bit I don't understand.

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by notlongnow on 16.10.15 13:02

If this turns out to be a whitewash,it has to be the most useless one ever.

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by aiyoyo on 16.10.15 14:41

notlongnow wrote:If this turns out to be a whitewash,it has to be the most useless one ever.


and the most expensive one !
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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by aiyoyo on 16.10.15 14:47

hogwash wrote:
The Rooster wrote:Why spend £10m to bury it. Just let it go silent.
Is it known how much the Princess Diana, Iraq War, Jill Dando, Dr Kelly (etc) cases cost to whitewash them?

Not fair comparisons.

One was potential future queen if not for accident.
War is political issue, national issue rather than individual.
The other two, well known public figure and scientist respectively with clouts.

The whitewashing of any or all of those which may or may not apply cannot be parallel comparisons with a missing child case.
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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by nomendelta on 16.10.15 15:36

I think they CAN be compared. In her short life as a was Diana ever as consistently supported by the press as team McCann have been? A clear sign to me that a matter of great importance is involved here.

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.10.15 21:37

The Rooster wrote:I know Tony, you're not wrong in the above post,

REPLY: Correct -  the level of support from the very top and so many government security services is simply staggering - no-one can deny it 

but why if there's a cover-up are they airing the laundry in public - that's the bit I don't understand.

REPLY: I believe that this a genuine enquiry (and I apologise if I have seemed too sharp with you on previous occasions) so I'll do my best to explain things as best as I can. First of all I refer once again to the quote I gave earlier by Hitler's chief propagandist: Josef Goebbels: "If you tell a lie big enough AND KEEP REPEATING IT, people will eventually come to believe it".  Keep the words in red in mind - repetition is important to entrench the lie. Second, I refer to nomendelta's answer below: 'A matter of great importance is involved here'. So if it's a big  lie, on the Goebbels principle, it must be repeated and repeated. Thirdly, I think the McCann case is helping other agendas.

'Missing People', for one.

The microchipping agenda, for another.

The promotion of the fairly useless 'Amber Alert' type schemes.

And look no further than the aggressive 'Hacked Off' campaign which was designed to undermine press freedom - it was fronted by the McCanns.

Now the powers-that-be are getting ready to limit free speech on the internet. One weapon they are using is to mount a sustained campaign against wicked internet trolls. The Sun's 
2-page spread earlier this year which featured a notorious anti-McCann troll was very much part of that campaign, coming as it did from the Murdoch stable. And look what happened when The McCanns, Leicestershire Police, Scotland Yard, SKY News and all the mainstream British press savagely picked on a lonely divorcee who was expressing forthright opinions on the McCann case.

In that particular McCann-led case, someone paid the price with their life. 
 


nomendelta wrote:
(comparing the alleged Princess Diana and McCann cover-ups) 


"I think they CAN be compared. In her short life was Diana ever as consistently supported by the press as team McCann have been? A clear sign to me that a matter of great importance is involved here".

REPLY: Agreed 100% thumbup

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by The Rooster on 16.10.15 22:09

Well thank you, as always.

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by sharonl on 16.10.15 23:07

The Rooster wrote:Why spend £10m to bury it. Just let it go silent.


£10m spent and in the words of our Dear Prime Minister "to assist the McCanns"

What exactly (apart from the superior hotels that have accommodated our officers) has £10m been spent on?


  1. A genuine search for a live child (ignoring all other missing children)
  2. A search for an abductor despite there being no evidence of an abduction
  3. A search for evidence against the McCanns which is widely available on the internet and has been for years
  4. A search for a patsy


A pointless exercise whichever way you look at it.  The only person to benefit from this is Rebekah "story seller" Brookes.

Do we belive that £10m has been spent on 30 officers looking at the evidence of abduction that consisted only of Jane Tanners sighting?

Do we believe that £10m has been spent on trying to catch out the McCanns? There is no such review for other unsolved crimes.

It is doubtful that Cameron would spend any money on a review that would lead to something bigger that would bring the establishment down, like the Spartacus club, or another elite paedophile ring.

Rebekah has, in the past, been known to have bribed the police for information.  She also blackmailed Cameron into setting up this review, obviously for her own benefit.

Where, how and why has this £10M really been spent?

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by Verdi on 16.10.15 23:20

sharonl wrote:
The Rooster wrote:Why spend £10m to bury it. Just let it go silent.


£10m spent and in the words of our Dear Prime Minister "to assist the McCanns"

What exactly (apart from the superior hotels that have accommodated our officers) has £10m been spent on?


  1. A genuine search for a live child (ignoring all other missing children)
  2. A search for an abductor despite there being no evidence of an abduction
  3. A search for evidence against the McCanns which is widely available on the internet and has been for years
  4. A search for a patsy


A pointless exercise whichever way you look at it.  The only person to benefit from this is Rebekah "story seller" Brookes.

Do we belive that £10m has been spent on 30 officers looking at the evidence of abduction that consisted only of Jane Tanners sighting?

Do we believe that £10m has been spent on trying to catch out the McCanns?

It is doubtful that Cameron would spend any money on a review that would lead to something bigger that would bring the establishment down, like the Spartacus club, or another elite paedophile ring.

Rebekah has, in the past, been know to have bribed the police for information.  She also blackmailed Cameron into setting up this review, obviously for her own benefit.

Where, how and why has this £10M really been spent?
Quite so!  My thoughts precisely when someone recently suggested that progress of the UK 'investigation' would be confined to the offices of Operation Grange.  No way can this be viewed as a bone fide investigation - it stinks!

The information withheld by UK authorities during the initial stages of the 'official investigation' conducted by the PJ, should by rights be readily available to the UK police should they be pursuing the right direction.  All the anomalies preventing the PJ from reaching a conclusive point in their very thorough investigation - all that's needed to lead to prosecution.  Instead what do we find?  Four + years of intensive research and latterly an full blown investigation and nothing to show!

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by maebee on 18.10.15 0:45

snook wrote:Even the most naïve and inexperienced constable would struggle to declare the parents innocent of any culpability 


Agreed. Each and every one of them on the case have to have it sussed. Re a whitewash, how is it possible to guarantee the silence of each and every one of them?
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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by aiyoyo on 18.10.15 1:21

sharonl wrote:
The Rooster wrote:Why spend £10m to bury it. Just let it go silent.


£10m spent and in the words of our Dear Prime Minister "to assist the McCanns"

What exactly (apart from the superior hotels that have accommodated our officers) has £10m been spent on?


  1. A genuine search for a live child (ignoring all other missing children)
  2. A search for an abductor despite there being no evidence of an abduction
  3. A search for evidence against the McCanns which is widely available on the internet and has been for years
  4. A search for a patsy


A pointless exercise whichever way you look at it.  The only person to benefit from this is Rebekah "story seller" Brookes.

Do we belive that £10m has been spent on 30 officers looking at the evidence of abduction that consisted only of Jane Tanners sighting?

Do we believe that £10m has been spent on trying to catch out the McCanns? There is no such review for other unsolved crimes.

It is doubtful that Cameron would spend any money on a review that would lead to something bigger that would bring the establishment down, like the Spartacus club, or another elite paedophile ring.

Rebekah has, in the past, been known to have bribed the police for information.  She also blackmailed Cameron into setting up this review, obviously for her own benefit.

Where, how and why has this £10M really been spent?

Madam Brooks may have coerced (persuaded) Cameron into granting the review, but why would Grange hang on to this for so many years .....why not wrap up if there has been no development ?
What is in it for Grange to hang on aimlessly?
Maybe things are not as apparent as we believed?



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Something is happening on Operation Grange soon?

Post by willowthewisp on 18.10.15 13:51

Hi Aiyoyo,
Possibly due to the main puppet Meister who employed Andy Coulson, Rebekah Brooks, Glen Mulcaire and cohorts to undertake to seek out stories using covert methods introduced to them by retired Army officials, who were then employed by Rupert?
If you doubt the power of manipulation of his clan, look at the Daniel Morgan murder, still unsolved after 28 years and millions of pounds of the taxpayers money blown on court abandonments after the UK police failed in their duties to the Morgan family to catch the main perpetrators of the murder?
Take a look at who worked for the proprietors newspapers and paid police officers for stories on live criminal investigations to be printed in his papers, good old Rupert?

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Re: Something is happening...say quite a few people

Post by aiyoyo on 18.10.15 16:46

willowthewisp wrote:Hi Aiyoyo,
Possibly due to the main puppet Meister who employed Andy Coulson, Rebekah Brooks, Glen Mulcaire and cohorts to undertake to seek out stories using covert methods introduced to them by retired Army officials, who were then employed by Rupert?
If you doubt the power of manipulation of his clan, look at the Daniel Morgan murder, still unsolved after 28 years and millions of pounds of the taxpayers money blown on court abandonments after the UK police failed in their duties to the Morgan family to catch the main perpetrators of the murder?
Take a look at who worked for the proprietors newspapers and paid police officers for stories on live criminal investigations to be printed in his papers, good old Rupert?

Murdoch and his staff may have courted and gone to bed with politicians for mutual benefits, I doubt he nor his employees have the power to corrupt Scotland Yard across the board, nor are all sr police officers corruptible. 

There has to be another reason for the protracted investigation .....and the reason has to justify the funding; and white wash simply does not cut it.  If conclusion is prewritten and a foregone one why bother on extending the charade...., waste of money and resources that could be put to useful use elsewhere?
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