Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

[Liz Eagles]

The decision to search the “horse shoe” shaped piece of waste ground to the west of Praia da Luz and other sites was as a specific result of the UK’s investigation work to date.
-------------------------------------------------

funny shaped 'horse shoe'.

'Seemingly' UK's investigation work not 'specific enough'.

What happened to the ripping up, by JCB's, 'beach' search, flagged up 'in advance'?

IIRC SY stated that the dogs would scan an area, and if they were disinterested, it seems so were SY unless the location was specifically earmarked for attention which was not related to anything the dogs would detect (perhaps burial of connected items uncontaminated by blood or cadaverine).

I don't recall SY stating that.

[ChippyM]

I really think they would still be out there  until Friday sniffing around  looking like they were on the job but as soon as this unease came up they decided  this afternoon to come home . Imo  it is nothing but a con,  whitewash,  waste of money etc etc.

You really think they 'just decided' to go home on a whim?

The police statement said there is more activity planned.  It seems they can't win because if they had been on that site till Friday, there would be people saying 'what's taking them so long, they have no idea' etc.  If they are following some kind of plan people say 'why have they gone so soon'.

Yes afraid I do
Senior officers said the searches were the ‘first phase’ of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine, who was three when she went missing in Praia da Luz in May 2007, and more activity will ‘commence shortly’.This could include the arrest of a handful of suspects who detectives suspect may be able to cast fresh light on the notorious case.
The announcement came just hours after graffiti was daubed in large orange letters on a brick wall opposite one of the search areas.
Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’

ad more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654890/Police-Madeleine-McCann-search-begin-combing-new-patch-scrubland-today-near-went-missing-seven-years-ago.html#ixzz34PtTCvqC
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  I just can't believe you would seriously consider that SY went home because someone wrote they were 'stupid' on a wall and their feelings were hurt! 

    Is it not more likely that they had finished what they came to do?  Any suggestion that the digs ended 'early' has come from the media, not SY.

[Mirage]

Krugel weighed in yesterday, saying he had wanted to go over this tract of land with his machine but both the PJ and the McCanns had not wanted him to. He stated he was pleased it was now being done. Sorry, do not have link,  using phone at the mo. Think it was on Sky.

[Bishop Brennan]

Krugel weighed in yesterday, saying he had wanted to  this tract of land with his machine but both the PJ and the McCanns had not wanted him to. He stated he was pleased it was now being done. Sorry, do not have link,  using phone at the mo. Think it was on Sky.

As good a reason as any to not bother then. He was an out and out fraud.  I was astonished that he got so much air-time in Amaral's book. No better than a psychic, which is presumably why the McCanns suggested getting him involved - fully aware that his chances of finding anything with his magic 'body-finding-DNA-sensing' mystery box were of course zero.

[CynicAl]

Why do posters need a link to bs,its easy to find all by ones self.Cant understand why some posters are making a meal out of it.

True, but I guess some adult posters here are not squeamish about ideas, 'insults', wild accusations or - ooh madam - the use of adult words or themes, and thus feel like well-considered comments which lend themselves to the same cause as we seem to have agreed here, are indeed only words and should be available to contribute, to discuss, to reckon as part of the overall arsenel of informed opinion against McCann spin and anti-McCann hyperbole and scandalous speculation.

For better or worse some adult debaters feel that a pre-requisite of sites that host controversial debate which inherently depend upon the right to free speech and free debate regardless of how 'offensive' some find it, is to extend the courtesy, all things being equal, by being open to criticism or prepared to tackle accusation or insult maturely. In a forum where the principal contention is AGAINST the authority of a select group of people to screen what people see, hear, read, believe about them and to control the flow of information according to an agenda, it is understandable that some posters here see the reaction against BS as being grossly hypocritical, equally controlled by authority, to a different end than necessarily all of the readers would be committed.

Personally, I'm fairly indifferent. I'm of the general opinion that the kind of absolutism of 'this is my forum and I say what goes', led by an inner circle whose relationships with each other are not clear, and motives cannot be demonstrated to be transparent, and character cannot be tested will inevitably set a tone which can easily be interpreted as having created an outlet for a very narrow set of ideas, or even having created a forum for entertainment rather than information and awareness.

Clearly that's not the case here, but the general rule of netiquette when you set up a forum which calls on the 'freedom of speech' as its raison d'etre, which is for adults to intelligently and robustly debate ideas - and in which I have a great deal of experience across the global interweb -  is that the more mature and therefore more successful forums are extremely broadminded and broad-shouldered in their love of the values of free speech and free thought, and they allow a huge amount of rope before they reign someone in. Typically the rule of thumb in my experience was always 'personal insults' and name-calling ist verboten, simply because of the degeneration it causes in a thread, but that those things can be edited out if they turn out to be explosive outbursts in the course of a substantially reasoned and intelligent address. We rarely used blanket bans for anyone except obvious trolls. If an opinion was intelligent and reasoned, even if it was challenging or 'offensive', we'd always wait for the justification of the comment or judgement being made, rather than letting everyone who didn't like being challenged screaming 'I've been insulted!' and watching the poster disappear in a puff of smoke, the receiving end of an administrative nuke. We accepted most 'bad language' as mere forms of human expression, and posters were allowed to be graphic in their descriptions or depictions of the subject in debate. I never found a forum that did not cultivate a fundamental weakness when it started trying to mind p's and q's on fundamental and emotive subjects.

As an illustration, on one of those forums posts in the style of Blacksmith, expletives and accusations and all, would be allowed with a warning not to push it too far. On the other hand articles by Chris Spivey would not. Those are not words used in the normal flow of conversational English, that's someone who uses as much profanity as possible in order to get attention. David Icke would be banned too, not for his language or vitriol, but for simply getting up each morning, looking in the mirror and saying 'you da man... you really have got the answers.' For that, he deserves a kick in the unmentionables.

Of course, the ultimate irony is that the BS ban here not only server to make us look reactive against sources that we actually have philosophical affinity with, but it also serves to drive readership to read those posts themselves, as we all so often choose to take a glance at what we're told is no good for us. Because we're told its no good for us.

I don't read BS much. I'm more partial to Textusa.

[Mirage]

Krugel weighed in yesterday, saying he had wanted to  this tract of land with his machine but both the PJ and the McCanns had not wanted him to. He stated he was pleased it was now being done. Sorry, do not have link,  using phone at the mo. Think it was on Sky.

As good a reason as any to not bother then. He was an out and out fraud.  I was astonished that he got so much air-time in Amaral's book. No better than a psychic, which is presumably why the McCanns suggested getting him involved - fully aware that his chances of finding anything with his magic 'body-finding-DNA-sensing' mystery box were of course zero.

Fraudster or not - of secondary importance. Salient is the Mcs brought him in then delineated scope of his search, according to him anyway.

[CynicAl]

Krugel weighed in yesterday, saying he had wanted to  this tract of land with his machine but both the PJ and the McCanns had not wanted him to. He stated he was pleased it was now being done. Sorry, do not have link,  using phone at the mo. Think it was on Sky.

As good a reason as any to not bother then. He was an out and out fraud.  I was astonished that he got so much air-time in Amaral's book. No better than a psychic, which is presumably why the McCanns suggested getting him involved - fully aware that his chances of finding anything with his magic 'body-finding-DNA-sensing' mystery box were of course zero.

Funny, I had similar misgivings about GA giving credence to lunacies which detract from the core 'facts and evidence + intelligent investigation = conclusion' kind of formula. And when he went off recently about MI5 I started to wonder if he is developing a need to be in some way 'sensational' in his presentation, to appeal to an audience that expects the audacious and a 'controversy too far'. Sad if it is the case, because his work has been so solid.

Then again, how could we forget the delusional mania that gripped David Shayler, having started out with modest whistles blown, and moved on to revealing the most intimate of inconvenient details about shadow government, before moving on into ladies clothes, having a sex change and being convinced he's the literal incarnation of the son (or daughter) of God.

If anyone sees Amaral wearing a dress, it could be a sign of a problem.

[Markus 2]

I really think they would still be out there  until Friday sniffing around  looking like they were on the job but as soon as this unease came up they decided  this afternoon to come home . Imo  it is nothing but a con,  whitewash,  waste of money etc etc.

You really think they 'just decided' to go home on a whim?

The police statement said there is more activity planned.  It seems they can't win because if they had been on that site till Friday, there would be people saying 'what's taking them so long, they have no idea' etc.  If they are following some kind of plan people say 'why have they gone so soon'.

Yes afraid I do
Senior officers said the searches were the ‘first phase’ of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine, who was three when she went missing in Praia da Luz in May 2007, and more activity will ‘commence shortly’.This could include the arrest of a handful of suspects who detectives suspect may be able to cast fresh light on the notorious case.
The announcement came just hours after graffiti was daubed in large orange letters on a brick wall opposite one of the search areas.
Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’

ad more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654890/Police-Madeleine-McCann-search-begin-combing-new-patch-scrubland-today-near-went-missing-seven-years-ago.html#ixzz34PtTCvqC
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  I just can't believe you would seriously consider that SY went home because someone wrote they were 'stupid' on a wall and their feelings were hurt! 

    Is it not more likely that they had finished what they came to do?  Any suggestion that the digs ended 'early' has come from the media, not SY.

 
 Doubt you could  ever hurt SYs feelings but if they stayed until Friday think how much more graffiti might have appeared .Locals would not like that, would they. Met would not like it and  look the fools they are . I am sure the McCann's would not like to see more of it, would not do their cause any good  either, jmo.

[sofieellis]

I really think they would still be out there  until Friday sniffing around  looking like they were on the job but as soon as this unease came up they decided  this afternoon to come home . Imo  it is nothing but a con,  whitewash,  waste of money etc etc.

You really think they 'just decided' to go home on a whim?

The police statement said there is more activity planned.  It seems they can't win because if they had been on that site till Friday, there would be people saying 'what's taking them so long, they have no idea' etc.  If they are following some kind of plan people say 'why have they gone so soon'.

Yes afraid I do
Senior officers said the searches were the ‘first phase’ of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine, who was three when she went missing in Praia da Luz in May 2007, and more activity will ‘commence shortly’.This could include the arrest of a handful of suspects who detectives suspect may be able to cast fresh light on the notorious case.
The announcement came just hours after graffiti was daubed in large orange letters on a brick wall opposite one of the search areas.
Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’

ad more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654890/Police-Madeleine-McCann-search-begin-combing-new-patch-scrubland-today-near-went-missing-seven-years-ago.html#ixzz34PtTCvqC
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

If British police went home in a strop every time they received a mild strop, there would be no need for criminal courts in this country, because nothing would ever get as far as a prosecution. These officers are used to hearing much stronger insults - what was written on the wall would be like water off a duck's back to them. 

Whatever reason for them returning home, I doubt it had anything to do with a bit of mild graffiti.

[CynicAl]

Krugel weighed in yesterday, saying he had wanted to  this tract of land with his machine but both the PJ and the McCanns had not wanted him to. He stated he was pleased it was now being done. Sorry, do not have link,  using phone at the mo. Think it was on Sky.

As good a reason as any to not bother then. He was an out and out fraud.  I was astonished that he got so much air-time in Amaral's book. No better than a psychic, which is presumably why the McCanns suggested getting him involved - fully aware that his chances of finding anything with his magic 'body-finding-DNA-sensing' mystery box were of course zero.

Fraudster or not - of secondary importance. Salient is the Mcs brought him in then delineated scope of his search, according to him anyway.

True. Or rather, it would be true if it were true, and it would be easier to know it were true if the two sets of involved parties had a strong history at being truthful, but since both are either liars or delusional (or delusional liars) it kind of leaves you feeling that everything pertaining to their authority to speak on any matters should be ignored.

[Lance De Boils]

Could some kind soul help me out? I'm up to my neck in work stuff this week and struggling to keep up here.
Was it reported that the dogs alerted on Wed? If so, where was that reported? Do we know where they woofed?

[CynicAl]

I really think they would still be out there  until Friday sniffing around  looking like they were on the job but as soon as this unease came up they decided  this afternoon to come home . Imo  it is nothing but a con,  whitewash,  waste of money etc etc.

You really think they 'just decided' to go home on a whim?

The police statement said there is more activity planned.  It seems they can't win because if they had been on that site till Friday, there would be people saying 'what's taking them so long, they have no idea' etc.  If they are following some kind of plan people say 'why have they gone so soon'.

Yes afraid I do
Senior officers said the searches were the ‘first phase’ of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine, who was three when she went missing in Praia da Luz in May 2007, and more activity will ‘commence shortly’.This could include the arrest of a handful of suspects who detectives suspect may be able to cast fresh light on the notorious case.
The announcement came just hours after graffiti was daubed in large orange letters on a brick wall opposite one of the search areas.
Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’

ad more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654890/Police-Madeleine-McCann-search-begin-combing-new-patch-scrubland-today-near-went-missing-seven-years-ago.html#ixzz34PtTCvqC
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

If British police went home in a strop every time they received a mild strop, there would be no need for criminal courts in this country, because nothing would ever get as far as a prosecution. These officers are used to hearing much stronger insults - what was written on the wall would be like water off a duck's back to them. 

Whatever reason for them returning home, I doubt it had anything to do with a bit of mild graffiti.

Quite. It is a well known fact that law enforcement professionals are not chosen for their altruism, their skill, their prowess in any regard. Rather they are chosen for their thick skin, lack of human emotion, and absence of a sense of humour ;-)

[Liz Eagles]

I do love a bully - that is to say I do love to watch a bully in progress. I love the verbose diatribe. I love it.

Keep going Al, I'm watching with delight as you twist and turn the forum. I'm not sure whether to wear a black hat, a white hat, whether I'm a disruptor or whatever else Textusa spouts.

It's a funny old world innit.

[Markus 2]

I really think they would still be out there  until Friday sniffing around  looking like they were on the job but as soon as this unease came up they decided  this afternoon to come home . Imo  it is nothing but a con,  whitewash,  waste of money etc etc.

You really think they 'just decided' to go home on a whim?

The police statement said there is more activity planned.  It seems they can't win because if they had been on that site till Friday, there would be people saying 'what's taking them so long, they have no idea' etc.  If they are following some kind of plan people say 'why have they gone so soon'.

Yes afraid I do
Senior officers said the searches were the ‘first phase’ of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine, who was three when she went missing in Praia da Luz in May 2007, and more activity will ‘commence shortly’.This could include the arrest of a handful of suspects who detectives suspect may be able to cast fresh light on the notorious case.
The announcement came just hours after graffiti was daubed in large orange letters on a brick wall opposite one of the search areas.
Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’

ad more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654890/Police-Madeleine-McCann-search-begin-combing-new-patch-scrubland-today-near-went-missing-seven-years-ago.html#ixzz34PtTCvqC
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

If British police went home in a strop every time they received a mild strop, there would be no need for criminal courts in this country, because nothing would ever get as far as a prosecution. These officers are used to hearing much stronger insults - what was written on the wall would be like water off a duck's back to them. 

Whatever reason for them returning home, I doubt it had anything to do with a bit of mild graffiti.

Nothing to do with a mild strop but the bad publicity for all those concerned Dont you think the locals would be up in arms about it," now we have Graffiti ", what do think it would do for the Mcanns if it went on  , not help their cause would it especially  now the media is  reporting it.

[AndyB]

I don't read BS much. I'm more partial to Textusa.

That's somewhat surprising. I recognise the shared propensity for excessive verbosity but I wouldn't have thought that there was much in the way of content at textusa for someone that professes to dislike any theories that are not based on solid facts and logic. What's the attraction?

[aiyoyo]

Could some kind soul help me out? I'm up to my neck in work stuff this week and struggling to keep up here.
Was it reported that the dogs alerted on Wed? If so, where was that reported? Do we know where they woofed?

Have not come across any such report.
Police are wisely not reporting on operation process.

[sofieellis]

I really think they would still be out there  until Friday sniffing around  looking like they were on the job but as soon as this unease came up they decided  this afternoon to come home . Imo  it is nothing but a con,  whitewash,  waste of money etc etc.

You really think they 'just decided' to go home on a whim?

The police statement said there is more activity planned.  It seems they can't win because if they had been on that site till Friday, there would be people saying 'what's taking them so long, they have no idea' etc.  If they are following some kind of plan people say 'why have they gone so soon'.

Yes afraid I do
Senior officers said the searches were the ‘first phase’ of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine, who was three when she went missing in Praia da Luz in May 2007, and more activity will ‘commence shortly’.This could include the arrest of a handful of suspects who detectives suspect may be able to cast fresh light on the notorious case.
The announcement came just hours after graffiti was daubed in large orange letters on a brick wall opposite one of the search areas.
Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’

ad more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654890/Police-Madeleine-McCann-search-begin-combing-new-patch-scrubland-today-near-went-missing-seven-years-ago.html#ixzz34PtTCvqC
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

If British police went home in a strop every time they received a mild strop, there would be no need for criminal courts in this country, because nothing would ever get as far as a prosecution. These officers are used to hearing much stronger insults - what was written on the wall would be like water off a duck's back to them. 

Whatever reason for them returning home, I doubt it had anything to do with a bit of mild graffiti.

Nothing to do with a mild strop but the bad publicity for all those concerned Dont you think the locals would be up in arms about it," now we have Graffiti ", what do think it would do for the Mcanns if it went on  , not help their cause would it especially  now the media is  reporting it.

Some of the locals were angry -that was already known. It wouldn't have sent any police force scurrying back home, before they did the job they came for. It's hardly good publicity to run away from tame insults, is it?

If you're right, then it would certainly set a dangerous precedent. Next time anyone commits a crime, they will have to remember to write some anti - police graffiti on a nearby wall, to ensure the police won't want to investigate in case they upset anyone.

[ultimaThule]

I really think they would still be out there  until Friday sniffing around  looking like they were on the job but as soon as this unease came up they decided  this afternoon to come home . Imo  it is nothing but a con,  whitewash,  waste of money etc etc.

You really think they 'just decided' to go home on a whim?

The police statement said there is more activity planned.  It seems they can't win because if they had been on that site till Friday, there would be people saying 'what's taking them so long, they have no idea' etc.  If they are following some kind of plan people say 'why have they gone so soon'.

Yes afraid I do
Senior officers said the searches were the ‘first phase’ of the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine, who was three when she went missing in Praia da Luz in May 2007, and more activity will ‘commence shortly’.This could include the arrest of a handful of suspects who detectives suspect may be able to cast fresh light on the notorious case.
The announcement came just hours after graffiti was daubed in large orange letters on a brick wall opposite one of the search areas.
Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’Written in Portuguese, the misspelled message translated as: ‘Maddie’s parents killed her. English police are stupid!’

ad more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654890/Police-Madeleine-McCann-search-begin-combing-new-patch-scrubland-today-near-went-missing-seven-years-ago.html#ixzz34PtTCvqC
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

If British police went home in a strop every time they received a mild strop, there would be no need for criminal courts in this country, because nothing would ever get as far as a prosecution. These officers are used to hearing much stronger insults - what was written on the wall would be like water off a duck's back to them. 

Whatever reason for them returning home, I doubt it had anything to do with a bit of mild graffiti.

Nothing to do with a mild strop but the bad publicity for all those concerned Dont you think the locals would be up in arms about it," now we have Graffiti ", what do think it would do for the Mcanns if it went on  , not help their cause would it especially  now the media is  reporting it.

Are you saying that all TM and/or their supporters have to do to stop a multi million £ police investigation in its tracks is to daub some anti-McCann/anti-police graffiti on walls, Markus?

[fossey]

To think that the police shut up shop, threw their toys out the pram and p#ssed off home due to a bit of graffiti is just LUDICROUS.

[Garrincha]

in this update the graffiti words have been mentioned in its entirity.  Parents Killed Maddie English Police are stupid!


Back on Page 74, Dutch Girl highlighted this. IMO that the Mail have done this indicates a huge change in their approach 

[Bishop Brennan]

To think that the police shut up shop, threw their toys out the pram and p#ssed off home due to a bit of graffiti is just LUDICROUS.

Indeed. The real reason is much more obvious - they all wanted to be back home to watch the World Cup which kicks off later today.  

[Mirage]

Breaking this down via casuistry Krugel made a statement to the media expressing an interest in the tract of land. It was reported in the MSM. I drew a conclusion that the statement was interesting. I do not know if he lied.  The statement forms part of the narrative. The statement is bilaterally sensitive. The tract of land is of multi-agency interest now. I posted the statement.

[sofieellis]

BBC news channel: Kate and Gerry are very pleased with the  significant activity that has taken place in Praia de Luz and the fact that no trace of Madeleine  has been found reinforces their belief that Madeleine could still be alive.

[sofieellis]

And from their facebook page:


11 June, 2014 - Statement from Gerry and Kate

We are very pleased that significant activity has taken place in Praia da Luz over the last 10 days with police officers and support teams from the UK working closely with the Policia Judicial and the Guarda Nacional Republicana. We are further encouraged that, despite the intensive searches, no trace of Madeleine has been found and this reinforces our belief that she could still be alive. As parents of a missing child, we have always wanted all reasonable lines of enquiry to be followed and it is gratifying to know that a substantial amount of work will take place over the coming months with close cooperation of the British and Portuguese authorities. We would like to thank all those involved for their efforts and the members of the public who have come forward with information.

Gerry and Kate

findmadeleine.com

[Justformaddie]

BBC news channel: Kate and Gerry are very pleased with the  significant activity that has taken place in Praia de Luz and the fact that no trace of Madeleine  has been found reinforces their belief that Madeleine could still be alive.

OMG!!!!   Then again, there's been no results afaik on what they did find and sent off! I'm thinking they're not really being kept up to date fully IMO