Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

[aiyoyo]

Heres hoping in a months time England have won the world cup and the Mccans are locked up awaiting trial.

More chance of the former than the latter.

Hmmm...not so sure of England winning chance....not with current Manager.
More likely 'mom and dad' will be in jail watching England wins one in about err....30 years time.

[aiyoyo]

If anyone wants to hide anything in the Algarve, the safest place may now be the 'snail'.

Yeap, drugs would be perfect goods to hide there, in plain sight and full of it.

What were SY doing - final the body first, then interview drug traffickers?
To get them to confess to what ? Abduction?

They found the incriminating evidence "cannabis plants"... so interview of the drugs traffickers should be very imminent.

Will Redwood then have the answers whether they took Madeleine?

[aiyoyo]

He added that the case was a complex criminal investigation due to "hundreds of false directions, hundreds of false statements … some were well-intentioned and others just malicious".



 I think we all know where the malicious statements and directions came from 

Oh yes, we do.  We also know that it was partly funded by donations from the public, many of them children and pensioners.

I like the report though, I get the feeling that whatever was going on at OG, they are now back peddling like crazy in order to save their own reputations.

Don't cry   

They will look a joke if after this massive spendings they arrived at same square as PJ did 7 years ago.
So just this thought must spur them into delivering results - hopefully.

[Liz Eagles]

If anyone wants to hide anything in the Algarve, the safest place may now be the 'snail'.

Yeap, drugs would be perfect goods to hide there, in plain sight and full of it.

What were SY doing - final the body first, then interview drug traffickers?
To get them to confess to what ? Abduction?

They found the incriminating evidence "cannabis plants"... so interview of the drugs traffickers should be very imminent.

Will Redwood then have the answers whether they took Madeleine?

They can't be looking for swag bags and jemmies cos nuffink was nicked and the shutters wosn't broke.

[aiyoyo]

If anyone wants to hide anything in the Algarve, the safest place may now be the 'snail'.

Yeap, drugs would be perfect goods to hide there, in plain sight and full of it.

What were SY doing - final the body first, then interview drug traffickers?
To get them to confess to what ? Abduction?

They found the incriminating evidence "cannabis plants"... so interview of the drugs traffickers should be very imminent.

Will Redwood then have the answers whether they took Madeleine?

They can't be looking for swag bags and jemmies cos nuffink was nicked and the shutters wosn't broke.

eta: meant to say "find the body first....."

Nope! They cant be wanting to interview drug traffickers either post the searches, that's just the Press spouting nonsense.

If three drug traffickers were of interest to them, the TIE would have been done already before the search.

[ChippyM]

I think either Jane Tanner or one of the Tapas 9 (which would meaning there are now 8 people of interest to interview/arrest as has been suggested) have finally cracked and confessed they know where Madeleine was buried and where significant items are too. 

Or maybe the priest has finally admitted all he knows. 

I feel the police know exactly what they are looking for and roughly, where. I think the apparent lack of success is probably more to do with the natural problem of any informant's memory to direct them to an exact location (in a field) 7 years on. 

So hoping justice will now be served. Reading Amaral's book it is SO obvious what happened.

You're far too optimistic if I may say.
If OG had specific intelligence, why the multiple locations ?
Shouldn't they just stick to the final resting place and search till they come to the grave?

I don't believe JT or Priest (or any of the T7 for that matter) has any inkling where the multiple resting places are, let alone final resting place.
Only Gerry (and maybe Kate) knows that.

 They may have specific intelligence that says a body was placed in one location, then moved and then placed again in another location. They may have a witness that said I saw person X at the snail and then later at another place. Maybe one person has broken ranks and knew the body was hidden but couldn't give an exact location because they weren't actually there at the time.

 Why would a police investigation want to miss significant chunks out of the timeline by NOT investigating a place the body may have been at one time? That makes no sense IMO. If you are building a case against someone you would want every bit of potential circumstantial and forensic evidence from anywhere it happened.

 They may also have intelligence that tells them there is no body, (which many people here agree to be likely)  so the body itself cannot be the focus, just the places where it was taken and what happend in those places. We still don't know what specifically they were looking for or if anything taken from 'the snail' was significant after they sent it away for analysis.

[NickE]

• From Twitter
  
• #mccann -3 burg suspects to be interviewed today-phone data revealed trio made high amt of calls to ea other in hrs after she disappeared
  

[ChippyM]

• From Twitter
  
• #mccann -3 burg suspects to be interviewed today-phone data revealed trio made high amt of calls to ea other in hrs after she disappeared
  

Do we have a source for that?  It sounds just like a re-hash of the stories that have been going around for the last few days.

[fossey]

• From Twitter
  
• #mccann -3 burg suspects to be interviewed today-phone data revealed trio made high amt of calls to ea other in hrs after she disappeared
  

It stands to reason there will be a high amount of phone activity very soon after the 'disappearance' of a near 4 year old girl. 

Whether your a petty drug dealer or not. I should think the majority of the residents in Praia da luz were on the blower at some point as soon as news broke out.

Everyone was concerned for a little girls welfare. Probably calling friends etc saying have you heard what's happened, keep a look out etc. 

The majority of the residents were out looking the night of the 3rd. No doubt calling friends from the outskirts to rally in and join the search party.

'We need extra volunteers for the search parties as funnily enough the parents of the young girl and her friends can't be bothered to help'.

Just don't get this SY view that large volumes of ping data AFTERWARDS is suspicious.

What IS suspicious is that the parents couldn't be arsed to search. 

All this BurgaDrugAlator nonsense is just that. NONSENSE.

[ChippyM]

Where did the burglars come from?

""  Jan 12 2014
A spokesman for Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry said: “The letter is a significant development. It is necessary for British police to request the ­Portuguese authorities allow them to operate on their turf.
"It means they have the intention of arresting and interviewing X, Y or Z. We don’t know who they have their sights on but it’s likely it is the burglars.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-make-first-3016414#ixzz34EA6Enjk
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook "

"

Jan 14th 2014
Portugal's Attorney General's office confirmed they were in receipt of an International Letter of Request - a "significant development," according to a source close to Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry McCann.

The contents of the letter are believed to ask for access to three prime suspects......
Scotland Yard are understood to want to question three local burglars blamed for a string of break-ins in Praia da Luz where Madeleine was snatched in May 2007.
Portuguese detectives acting on a first International Letter of Request sent by Britain last July discovered the men were very close to the scene of Madeleine's disappearance.
They are thought to have made an unusually high number of calls to each other in the hours after her abduction.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-first-arrests-move-3056123#ixzz34EAYKFAy
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

 In the first article they admit "We don’t know who they have their sights on" .... before dropping in 'but it's likely the burglars'.  They admit it them selves, they don't know who or what the ILOR but they plant a story that it could be burglars. Every story we've had since then about burglars was based on these stories.

 Sorry but no police force is going to give 'prime suspects' months and months of notice.

[riskybuisness]

ok - so just say there was a gang in the area doing houses- one finds out that a child is missing and the police have been called - He would need to be the thickest burglar in the world not to get on the blower and warn the others- then back on blower where should we hide/ hide stuff - what if they do house searches - Back on the blower to find out where they should put the good they all have stashed. 


To me this is a no brainer!

[frost]

They found the incriminating evidence "cannabis plants"... so interview of the drugs traffickers should be very imminent.

From what I have read they only  found 2 cannabis plants these 2 plants were probably the result of seeds carried on the wind or dropped by birds not actually planted by anyone . I read another article which stated there is a cannabis farm quite close by which would account for this and which people are aware of   but with the length of the threads I cannot find it now .

[PeterMac]

 Sorry but no police force is going to give 'prime suspects' months and months of notice.[/left]

Quite so. Even sardine munchers, or burger gobblers.
The ideal situation is visit, search, arrest, interview, charge, and THEN tell the press you can't comment for legal reasons !

The press don't like it at all but there is nothing they can do.

[ChippyM]

 Sorry but no police force is going to give 'prime suspects' months and months of notice.[/left]

Quite so.  Even sardine munchers, or burger gobblers.
The ideal situation is visit, search, arrest, interview, charge, and THEN tell the press you can't comment for legal reasons !

The press don't like it at all but there is nothing they can do.

and surely there would be no reason to act on intelligence that indicated a burglar was involved and took the body to a certain area....then search the area for weeks before arresting said burglar?!

[jozi]

cant find the twitter thread,so am putting this here,

Retweeted by Babalou
Harry Blackwood @blamedandshamed  ·  1h
@19Barbara57 Every bit of evidence from Portuguese police points to McCanns. They'll be charged very soon. FACT.



 

Sorry trying to catch up, so forgive me for being late. Just want to say tiny if only it was true......

[PeterMac]

[jeanmonroe]

So, how many other 'children' have 'vanished into thin air' from holiday resorts in the Algave in the past 7 years, due to the activities of the gang of 3 or the gang of 5 'burglators'?

What WILL the Met 'find'?

It's a bit like those nature 'docs' where the crew spend weeks, months, on location, 'trying to film, X' and they say 'well, tomorrows the last day, after all these weeks, months, trying tor film X'.

Then hey presto, like magic!

On the very 'last' day they get the 'shot' they have spent 'ages, trying to film.

The McCanns and their 'friends and family' HAVE stated that 'any 'evidence' could have been 'planted' by the PJ' (to try to frame G&K.)

Yet when we say the Met 'COULD plant er, evidence' around their 8 'suspects' the silence from the McS and 'rest' is deafening!

What WILL the Met 'find' on their 'very last day' one wonders?

Finally, tongue in cheek, should the Met Police be 'fined' by the local PDL council for 'littering'? ( If i can 'get done' for dropping an apple core or fag butt, in the street, in UK (£80 'fine') Surely the Met should 'get done' for littering the 'Snail' by leaving THEIR 'rubbish' (evidence bags and other items) all over it!

 

[Justformaddie]

I'm hoping OG are picking the sites that Paulo Robelo said needed a more intensive search back in October 07 after GA, hopefully where OG did and are going to search tomorrow. These are the coast between Praia da Luz and Burgau, land between the Ocean Club and beach and forests and isolated villas around the Bravura dam in Odiaxere . Can only hope they're on the right path though.

[fossey]

Anonymous9 Jun 2014 13:03:00

Paulo Sargento on SIC, “Queridas Manhãs”, 09/06/2014.
He received information that the McCanns had been inside the PDL church at 05H00 on 14/01/09. They were photographed but the photo wasn’t clear.
Sargento wrote to the Bishop of Algarve to try to confirm the story. After a month without response he sent he Bishop a mail. This mail replied to with the justification of a delay – the Bishop had investigated what had indeed happened. The reply confirmed that the McCanns had been in the church the night in question at 05H10.
Sargento went to speak personally with the Bishop. The Bishop did not ask for any confidentiality about this conversation.
The Bishop didn’t know beforehand that the McCanns were going to use the church that night. It’s assumed it was the Hubbard’s who had the key.
The Bishop found one thing strange - Susan Hubbard’s anxious call to him to confirm if people were asking questions about this visit. The Bishop told her that if there wasn’t anything wrong in relation to that visit then Susan had nothing to be worried about people knowing about the visit.
On that same day at 17H30 a public service was held at the church.
Sargento says that whoever knows the inside of the church it’s impossible to hide a body there.
That in 2007 one place under works was an old cemetery few metres behind the church and that now has been paved with cement.

The bit in red maybe worth a closer look at...

Although the date of 14/01/09 at the top seems a bit strange. 

Copied it from a comment on Textusa's blog earlier.

[MissDaisy]

I wonder if these are the telephone calls they are interested in by three people on the 3rd May

The following is from the police files - taken from a phone analysis report from 29th May 2007.

"two sets of calls seen during the "critical period", understood to be between 20h00 and 22h00 on 3 May 2007immediately stand out: 

- Number 916... (unknown user), between 20h39 and 21h15,received 5 (five) connections from 969... ("Porto das Grutas - Sociedade Imobiliaria - Turistica"); 

- this same number (unknown user), at  21h01 and 21h16 also received two calls from an Irishnumber, 353872... (whose user can be determined if justified). 

Widening the analysis period it can seen that: 

- on that same day, at 17h40 and 17h48, the "Porto das Grutas" number made two calls to that Irishnumber (whose user can be determined if justified); 

- at 11h52, the "Porto das Grutas" number made one call to the (unknown user) number. "



From - http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MOBILE_PHONE_ANALYSIS.htm

[aiyoyo]

 They may have specific intelligence that says a body was placed in one location, then moved and then placed again in another location. They may have a witness that said I saw person X at the snail and then later at another place. Maybe one person has broken ranks and knew the body was hidden but couldn't give an exact location because they weren't actually there at the time.

The scenario as you described above is general info from tom dick harry that can't be certain the person they saw at such and such a spot is suspect in question.
Specific means just that - given one specific/particular info that is fit for purpose.
If someone has broken ranks, even if that person does not know where the body lies, it would be more than enough basis to haul the rest of them in for questioning; and probably good enough basis to hold them in custody and even to charge them.
Someone breaking ranks meant a confession was had ie a confirmation s/he knew exactly what happened to Madeleine, that being the case, the confession especially from one of the hol. friends who was at the crime scene and hence an associated participant is good enough basis to take to prosecution without the need to find the body.

It makes absolutely no sense for Police to spend a massive resources fine combing several locations starting with looking for objects and/or residues leading to the final resting place and eventually hoping to find the body. They are looking for the body primarily and any other chance finds of associating objects would be good, but secondary; unless the body is not found, then secondary incriminating objects would serve useful purpose.

You'd think if they'd specific intelligence they'd would start their search at the final resting place and not be wasting time and resources working their way through several locations hoping to reach the final resting place.

 Why would a police investigation want to miss significant chunks out of the timeline by NOT investigating a place the body may have been at one time? That makes no sense IMO. If you are building a case against someone you would want every bit of potential circumstantial and forensic evidence from anywhere it happened.

In the above scenario you described, you are talking about them basing the search on evidence on files and maybe phone forensics evidence. That being the case, it is circumstantial evidence.
It looks to me this is the likely basis used for their search, plus they might have had a bit more info than the PJ having done the CW appeal and probably spoken to a few more witnesses. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they may also have reinterviewed the T7 whose twiddle twaddle erring and hmming inconsistent full of holes answers while not giving the truth away may contain some useful nuggets.

Therefore it is my belief that their selection of locations was based on a collective combination of evidence from here and there specific only to what is on records, and not specific to any informant having given them the intelligence. Even, if by chance, an informant outside of the hol. friends had given them info it would have been vague info else there is no rationale behind their multiple locations search.

I am hoping their search is based on tip off from someone; and not just because they had used their diligence working on the gathered evidence to arrive at the locations, however the search patterns thus far do not support the former rather the latter.

Only one person imo know where the final resting place exactly is, and no chance in a million years this dad would talk not even under tortures.

 They may also have intelligence that tells them there is no body, (which many people here agree to be likely)  so the body itself cannot be the focus, just the places where it was taken and what happend in those places. We still don't know what specifically they were looking for or if anything taken from 'the snail' was significant after they sent it away for analysis.

Again, if you want my opinion, they are looking for a body. The 'no body' belief comes from another quarter that isn't part of the current investigating team.

If the objective of multiple locations is the hope of finding residue objects and/or items from possible interim resting places then it is a very expensive exercise hoping to beget very little if at all. Even if that is the case, searching three locations and possibly two more in the pipeline if reports of awaiting approval is true, then we are talking two or four interim resting places before final resting place, sorry I don't buy that.

At the very most imv there is one external temporary hiding place (if at all) and then one final resting place.
It is not realistic to even contemplate that any relatively normal person, be he a stranger abductor or her dad would move the body three, four or five times to different locations. That may be something psychopath killer disposing of mutilated body parts may do, but not relevant in said case.

[MRNOODLES]

They found the incriminating evidence "cannabis plants"... so interview of the drugs traffickers should be very imminent.

From what I have read they only  found 2 cannabis plants these 2 plants were probably the result of seeds carried on the wind or dropped by birds not actually planted by anyone . I read another article which stated there is a cannabis farm quite close by which would account for this and which people are aware of   but with the length of the threads I cannot find it now .

And just to add. They might not have been cannabis plants. They could have been just wild hemp plants. Like you said about the birds. They love em.

[ChippyM]

Aiyoyo, you make some very good points, I can't deny that.

   At the end of the day we are speculating as we don't have the full story as to why they are looking at certain areas. I was generalising about the kind of info they might have of course.  If they go on to search 3 or 4 more areas then, yes I think your point of view would be confirmed.  If on the other hand they search just one more area ...then I don't think I would be changing my mind. I'm not sold on a whitewash yet.

[aiyoyo]

@ jeanmonroe
So, how many other 'children' have 'vanished into thin air' from holiday resorts in the Algave in the past 7 years, due to the activities of the gang of 3 or the gang of 5 'burglators'?

Going by the historic rate of 8 home intrusions and 3 drugs trafficking offenders police are interested in, it would appear crimes of those nature are not high in PDL. Apart from Madeleine there had never been crime of child abduction in PDL, not before, since, or after. Maddie case is an exception.

If PJ had omitted to TIE those, then it's natural OG would want to trace interview and eliminate them to tie up loose ends to ensure no wiggle room for all purposes. For all we know the TIE was already done but the Press is regurgitating old news because they'd nothing else given to them to report.

[jeanmonroe]

DC 1485 MESSIAH (Leicestshire Police)  "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth''

D PAYNE "reply"

"Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up."
--------------------------------------------------------

I 'wonder' IF an DCI Andy Redwood led, MET 'forum,' was THE 'right forum' and that D Payne thought that is was 'the right forum', for 'bringing up' the 'few things' HE considered 'pertinent or relevant to establish the MATERIAL TRUTH''? (about a 3 years old child's 'disappearance')

And HE is the 'new' witness? (the OG team have 'based' their PDL 'search(es)' on?)