Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

by thetruthbeknown 07.11.13 20:32

ChillyHeat wrote:I would appreciate if you could read this thread. I don't think its getting enough attention. It will take about 10 mins to read. Im sorry for jumping in, but where the thread is, I don't think its getting to many views. Thanks all.....I believe its significant.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4530-new-photo-clue-to-madeleine-mccann-case

interesting..I had read that post. im quite convinved that Mr Smith would not of done an efit, id be very disappointed if he did. In his statement to PJ he clearly says that he would not recognise the person from a photo, hence why no efit was done..he was then asked by Brian Kennedy to do an efit..again he refused (I presume for the same reason) If he did one for SY I would be very surprised...After all an efit of facial features from Mr Smith could only be 'guess work' or 'persuasive suggestion'...after all he openly admitted he could not idntify whom he saw :/

On the subject of important info..Neil Berry and Raj Balu are of recent interest to me..Im thinking their statements which seem to of been held back, may have some interesting stuff in them. I started a post on 'stairwell man' on proporting theories section. As they were dining in an apartment nearby that night, and may have been vital witnesses..I think maybe a part here that has been overlooked??

by chillyheat 07.11.13 20:41

thetruthbeknown wrote:
ChillyHeat wrote:I would appreciate if you could read this thread. I don't think its getting enough attention. It will take about 10 mins to read. Im sorry for jumping in, but where the thread is, I don't think its getting to many views. Thanks all.....I believe its significant.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4530-new-photo-clue-to-madeleine-mccann-case
interesting..I had read that post. im quite convinved that Mr Smith would not of done an efit, id be very disappointed if he did. In his statement to PJ he clearly says that he would not recognise the person from a photo, hence why no efit was done..he was then asked by Brian Kennedy to do an efit..again he refused (I presume for the same reason) If he did one for SY I would be very surprised...After all an efit of facial features from Mr Smith could only be 'guess work' or 'persuasive suggestion'...after all he openly admitted he could not idntify whom he saw :/

On the subject of important info..Neil Berry and Raj Balu are of recent interest to me..Im thinking their statements which seem to of been held back, may have some interesting stuff in them. I started a post on 'stairwell man' on proporting theories section. As they were dining in an apartment nearby that night, and may have been vital witnesses..I think maybe a part here that has been overlooked??

Am just supposing here......Maybe Martin Smith did say words to the effect of being 60-80% sure, only on the basis that he knew at that time Tannerman was the main suspect. So maybe he was saying things to deflect from Murat. Its possible therefore Mary was having none of it and gave an efit to SY based on who she witnessed. If its true she said words to the effect "Ah the baby is cold" or similar, then its possible she looked at the face when saying it.

by justathought 07.11.13 20:45

thetruthbeknown wrote:
ChillyHeat wrote:I would appreciate if you could read this thread. I don't think its getting enough attention. It will take about 10 mins to read. Im sorry for jumping in, but where the thread is, I don't think its getting to many views. Thanks all.....I believe its significant.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4530-new-photo-clue-to-madeleine-mccann-case
interesting..I had read that post. im quite convinved that Mr Smith would not of done an efit, id be very disappointed if he did. In his statement to PJ he clearly says that he would not recognise the person from a photo, hence why no efit was done..he was then asked by Brian Kennedy to do an efit..again he refused (I presume for the same reason) If he did one for SY I would be very surprised...After all an efit of facial features from Mr Smith could only be 'guess work' or 'persuasive suggestion'...after all he openly admitted he could not idntify whom he saw :/

On the subject of important info..Neil Berry and Raj Balu are of recent interest to me..Im thinking their statements which seem to of been held back, may have some interesting stuff in them. I started a post on 'stairwell man' on proporting theories section. As they were dining in an apartment nearby that night, and may have been vital witnesses..I think maybe a part here that has been overlooked??

Berry had a daughter of a similar age to Madeleine and used the creche facilities

by thetruthbeknown 07.11.13 20:58

justathought wrote:
Berry had a daughter of a similar age to Madeleine and used the creche facilities

He also dined with Raj that night, they got a takeaway from tapas and dined on the veranda. They apparently heard a commotion at 10pm, and 'overheard' a conversation...its hard to say of specific details as their initial statements are not ones made public. It seems to me they could be prime witnesses to the '10pm discovery'

by Guest 07.11.13 21:02

Have a read of Pat Brown's new blog out today.

by justathought 07.11.13 21:04

thetruthbeknown wrote:
justathought wrote:
Berry had a daughter of a similar age to Madeleine and used the creche facilities
He also dined with Raj that night, they got a takeaway from tapas and dined on the veranda. They apparently heard a commotion at 10pm, and 'overheard' a conversation...its hard to say of specific details as their initial statements are not ones made public. It seems to me they could be prime witnesses to the '10pm discovery'

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NEIL_BERRY.htm

by chillyheat 07.11.13 21:11

candyfloss wrote:Have a read of Pat Brown's new blog out today.

Do you have a link CF...Im lost with so many favourites big grin

TY

by justathought 07.11.13 21:11

justathought wrote:
thetruthbeknown wrote:
justathought wrote:
Berry had a daughter of a similar age to Madeleine and used the creche facilities
He also dined with Raj that night, they got a takeaway from tapas and dined on the veranda. They apparently heard a commotion at 10pm, and 'overheard' a conversation...its hard to say of specific details as their initial statements are not ones made public. It seems to me they could be prime witnesses to the '10pm discovery'
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NEIL_BERRY.htm

This occurrence was targeted due to an information given by an employee of the resort, pages 504 and 505 of the Appendix VI, where a somewhat peculiar situation was reported, supposedly to do with NEIL BERRY. However, in spite of the diligences done, inclusive in the letter rogatory, nothing was established that connected him to the disappearance of the British child.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html

by chillyheat 07.11.13 21:15

justathought wrote:
thetruthbeknown wrote:
justathought wrote:
Berry had a daughter of a similar age to Madeleine and used the creche facilities
He also dined with Raj that night, they got a takeaway from tapas and dined on the veranda. They apparently heard a commotion at 10pm, and 'overheard' a conversation...its hard to say of specific details as their initial statements are not ones made public. It seems to me they could be prime witnesses to the '10pm discovery'
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/NEIL_BERRY.htm

I met Raj at the welcome ceremony when we arrived at the resort on 28th April 2007. I did not travel with him and we had not met before. I got on well with him and later on we discovered that our wives had both worked for the same company. big grin

Its so uncanny.....People on planes who never met ending up at the same resort (JW). Its endless isn't it.

by thetruthbeknown 07.11.13 21:16

justathought wrote:
This occurrence was targeted due to an information given by an employee of the resort, pages 504 and 505 of the Appendix VI, where a somewhat peculiar situation was reported, supposedly to do with NEIL BERRY. However, in spite of the diligences done, inclusive in the letter rogatory, nothing was established that connected him to the disappearance of the British child.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html

that was in relation to Berry being identified by the employee of ocean club as the man in the stairwell...however while I was looking into that, his name and Raj came up in the other area of being witnesses to the 10pm occurence on the balcony.

Ps: the link you gave was to his follow up questioning, not his original statement.

by Guest 07.11.13 21:22

ChillyHeat wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Have a read of Pat Brown's new blog out today.
Do you have a link CF...Im lost with so many favourites
TY

Me too, I don't even put things in there anymore big grin

I just google Pat Brown Blog

by justathought 07.11.13 21:23

thetruthbeknown wrote:
justathought wrote:
This occurrence was targeted due to an information given by an employee of the resort, pages 504 and 505 of the Appendix VI, where a somewhat peculiar situation was reported, supposedly to do with NEIL BERRY. However, in spite of the diligences done, inclusive in the letter rogatory, nothing was established that connected him to the disappearance of the British child.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html
that was in relation to Berry being identified by the employee of ocean club as the man in the stairwell...however while I was looking into that, his name and Raj came up in the other area of being witnesses to the 10pm occurence on the balcony.

Ps: the link you gave was to his follow up questioning, not his original statement.

i apologise. i should have explained that the link related to the "available" berry statements. wanted to make other posters aware as to what he said. you are right the 7th may statement has never been released. most probably due to it refereed to a "occurence"

by thetruthbeknown 07.11.13 21:29

justathought wrote:i apologise. i should have explained that the link related to the "available" berry statements. wanted to make other posters aware as to what he said. you are right the 7th may statement has never been released. most probably due to it refereed to a "occurence"

Yes, my apologies, I should have put the links to Raj and Berrys follow up questioning (Raj original statement is also not available) It seems to me wherever you go in this case, it leads to something else doesnt it yes

What a tangled mess....

by Guest 07.11.13 21:52

justathought wrote:
thetruthbeknown wrote:
ChillyHeat wrote:I would appreciate if you could read this thread. I don't think its getting enough attention. It will take about 10 mins to read. Im sorry for jumping in, but where the thread is, I don't think its getting to many views. Thanks all.....I believe its significant.

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4530-new-photo-clue-to-madeleine-mccann-case
interesting..I had read that post. im quite convinved that Mr Smith would not of done an efit, id be very disappointed if he did. In his statement to PJ he clearly says that he would not recognise the person from a photo, hence why no efit was done..he was then asked by Brian Kennedy to do an efit..again he refused (I presume for the same reason) If he did one for SY I would be very surprised...After all an efit of facial features from Mr Smith could only be 'guess work' or 'persuasive suggestion'...after all he openly admitted he could not idntify whom he saw :/

On the subject of important info..Neil Berry and Raj Balu are of recent interest to me..Im thinking their statements which seem to of been held back, may have some interesting stuff in them. I started a post on 'stairwell man' on proporting theories section. As they were dining in an apartment nearby that night, and may have been vital witnesses..I think maybe a part here that has been overlooked??
Berry had a daughter of a similar age to Madeleine and used the creche facilities

The shy one the Nannies called Madeleine instead of Maddie?

If so, 'our' Maddie could have been long gone without anyone outside the Mcs Group noticing,
There was a Madeleine at the creche, as long as it took

Do we have any info on Neil Berry and Raj Balu?

As in: where did they come from, where did they work; no wives a/o other children of them are mentioned, isn't this a bit strange

Who are they, in short and do they have any ties to the Mcs and the Tapasniks?

by thetruthbeknown 07.11.13 22:12

Portia wrote:The shy one the Nannies called Madeleine instead of Maddie?

If so, 'our' Maddie could have been long gone without anyone outside the Mcs Group noticing,
There was a Madeleine at the creche, as long as it took

Do we have any info on Neil Berry and Raj Balu?

As in: where did they come from, where did they work; no wives a/o other children of them are mentioned, isn't this a bit strange

Who are they, in short and do they have any ties to the Mcs and the Tapasniks?

im still early reading on Berry and Balu. I think they were there with partners, Berry had 2 children with him. They also socialised with Jayne jensen and anne wiltshire on occasion (sisters who I think implicated Murat early on)...its all a tangled mess. Its a shame their original statements are not available, I think it may be valuable.

by **Tony Bennett** 07.11.13 22:33

TheTruthWillOut wrote:Keeping things as simple as possible, a scenario (feel free to shoot it down in flames! ):

A male "Tapas" member decides they require a sighting and takes a child at around 10PM and bumps into the Smith family. Later after he gets back he either arranges the Tanner sighting or Tanner announces it to some members (whether invented or not) and he decides to use the Tanner sighting to debunk the Smith sighting.

Like I say.....probably full of holes, but I try.

Well, have you worked this one out in your scenario?

Your male 'Tapas' member, having bumped into the Smith family, to quote you: "either arranges the Tanner sighting or Tanner announces it to some members".

The next day, Tanner describes this man and tells the police: "He didn't look like a tourist" - a highly unusual and extremely vague description if ever there was one.

(Not one person on any of the 'Smithman' threads has yet been able to suggest what a tourist looks like and a non-tourist looks like on a cold dark evening in Praia da Luz).

Now, how does one account for the fact that, on 26 May, Smith uses an almost identical, unusual, vague description? - "He didn't look like a tourist".

I suggest four possibilities:

1) it was just a massive coincidence

2) there was a bloke wandering around the streets of Praia da Luz on a cold May evening in the dark carrying a blonde girl in pyjamas and barefoot who for some reason 'didn't look like a tourist'

3) there were TWO blokes wandering arouind the streets of Praia da Luz on a cold May evening in the dark carrying a blonde girl in pyjamas and barefoot who for some reason 'didn't look like tourists'

OR

4) the Smith family made the whole 'sighting' up and in doing so relied on knowledge of Jane Tanner's description.

by logical 07.11.13 22:47

OR Tony
No 5 Tanner and Smiths were asked by their Interviewers did the person you witnessed look like a Tourist or a local?

by Guest 07.11.13 22:49

Perhaps one day we will have all the answers to this mystery.

It's very hard for me to fathom why a large family group who had nothing to do with the McCanns - I am presuming there is no doubt about that? - would have invented the sighting.

Mistaken possibly but a deliberate fabrication - why would they?

by logical 07.11.13 22:54

Tony

I would be most grateful if you could direct me to the first official release date of Tanners witness description

thank you in advance .

by **Tony Bennett** 07.11.13 22:59

logical wrote:OR Tony

No 5 Tanner and Smiths were asked by their Interviewers did the person you witnessed look like a Tourist or a local?

Well, that was quick!

But I must be very careful, else I will get slapped down again for sarcasm, even when, as in this case, some people post unadulterated rubbish.

I have twice given my answer to this, but I will put the point again a third time:

Police officer to Jane Tanner and Martin Smith: "Did he look like a tourist or a local?"

Jane Tanner and Martin Smith: "What do tourists and locals look like?".

logical, people with names like you and 'StraightThinking', of all people, must be able to answer this - though again, no-one on any of these threads has been able to answer my point yet:

So...

...on a late and cold May evening in Portugal...

....at between 9.15pm and 10.00pm...

...when it is already dark...

...and there isn't a great deal of street lighting...

1. What does a tourist look like?

and

2. What does a local look like?

I have challenged your suggestion as ridiculous.

By all means supply an answer to my question and try to convince me otherwise.

by russiandoll 07.11.13 23:09

Tony you are not being sarcastic in some of your recent posts but rude and offensive. I do not understand, when you have given no motive or credible explanation for why more than one member of a family, including a child would fabricate a sighting and according to another recent post of yours, could have lied about being in Kelly's bar beforehand.

How can you be so obnoxious to people giving an opinion about this just because it differs from your own?

Unadulterated rubbish you call these opinions. Are you trying to drive people away?

by logical 07.11.13 23:10

NFWTD

They Smiths Didn't fabricate anything, The highly respected Professional Profiler Pat Brown as recently as 2 weeks ago on her facebook page stated She Believes the Smith families Testimonies.

Goncalo Amaral is on record stating the Smiths were credible witnesses.

If we Have belief in Goncalo Amaral and Pat Brown both professionals and campaigning for justice for Madeleine then why do we speculate and fabricate things about the Smiths and for what reasons ?

by **Tony Bennett** 07.11.13 23:12

logical wrote:Tony

I would be most grateful if you could direct me to the first official release date of Tanners' witness description.

Thank you in advance.

Glad to help.

First, here is the Wikipedia entry on the subject:

Tanner report

Artist's impression of the man Jane Tanner saw.^[37] Scotland Yard believe Tanner saw this British tourist carrying his daughter home.
One of the McCanns' travelling companions, Jane Tanner, left the restaurant to check on her own daughter. She passed Gerry on Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins on his way back to the restaurant from his 21:05 check; he was standing in the street chatting to a television producer he had met at the resort. At around 21:15 Tanner noticed a man cross the junction with Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva just ahead of her, heading away from the resort.^[38]
She said he was carrying a barefoot child who was wearing light-coloured pink pyjamas with a floral pattern and cuffs on the legs. She described the man as white, dark-haired, 1.70 m (5 ft 7 in) tall, of southern European or Mediterranean appearance, 35–40 years old, wearing gold or beige trousers and a dark jacket, and said he did not look like a tourist.^[39] Tanner passed the information to the Portuguese police, although the description was not given to the media until 25 May.^[39]

Second, it's important to note these points:

1. The statement was actually first released to the world's media by Dr Gerald McCann - before a battery of camera crews from around the world

2. The Portuguese Police only authorised this (and issued a description themselves) after Britain's then Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown, pressurised the Portuguese judicial authorities to do so

3. Dr McCann's verbal statement contained no reference to the man 'not looking like a tourist', this was something known only to Jane Tanner, the PJ, and anyone who Jane told, or who otherwise learnt about what Jane ahd told the police.

4. I am not sure when we first learned that both Tanner and Smith had used this unusual description: 'didn't look like a tourist' - but probably not until the PJ released their DVD in August 2008.

by **Tony Bennett** 07.11.13 23:14

logical wrote:NFWTD

They Smiths Didn't fabricate anything, The highly respected Professional Profiler Pat Brown as recently as 2 weeks ago on her facebook page stated She Believes the Smith families Testimonies.

While, by contrast, Wendy Murphy declared: "It's a fake sighting".

I'm with Murphy on this, not Brown.

by Guest 07.11.13 23:14

Yes, I suggest everyone read Pat Browns latest blog of today!

The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?