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WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

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WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by nobodythereeither on 29.10.13 13:18

@sallypelt wrote:Have they found the body *thinking out loud*
I don't think the body (if there is one, to cover myself) will ever be found.
 
Don't want to go into any detail, but they were doctors.
 
Sorry but I'm pretty sure any body is not "hidden" anywhere findable.




FULL ARTICLE FROM SUNDAY TIMES


Madeleine clues hidden for 5 years

The new prime suspect was first singled out by detectives in 2008. Their findings were suppressed. Insight reports
The Sunday Times Insight team Published: 27 October 2013
Comment (0) Print
Madeleine disappeared from the Praia da Luz resort in May 2007Madeleine disappeared from the Praia da Luz resort in May 2007 (Adrian Sheratt)
THE critical new evidence at the centre of Scotland Yard’s search for Madeleine McCann was kept secret for five years after it was presented to her parents by ex-MI5 investigators.

The evidence was in fact taken from an intelligence report produced for Gerry and Kate McCann by a firm of former spies in 2008.

It contained crucial E-Fits of a man seen carrying a child on the night of Madeleine’s disappearance, which have only this month become public after he was identified as the prime suspect by Scotland Yard.

A team of hand-picked former MI5 agents had been hired by the McCanns to chase a much-needed breakthrough in the search for their missing daughter Madeleine.


Click to enlarge
10 months after the three-year-old had disappeared from the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz, and the McCanns were beginning to despair over the handling of the local police investigation. They were relying on the new team to bring fresh hope.

But within months the relationship had soured. A report produced by the investigators was deemed “hypercritical” of the McCanns and their friends, and the authors were threatened with legal action if it was made public. Its contents remained secret until Scotland Yard detectives conducting a fresh review of the case contacted the authors and asked for a copy.

They found that it contained new evidence about a key suspect seen carrying a child away from the McCanns’ holiday apartment on the night Madeleine disappeared.

This sighting is now considered the main lead in the investigation and E-Fits of the suspect, taken from the report, were the centrepiece of a Crimewatch appeal that attracted more than 2,400 calls from the public this month.

One of the investigators whose work was sidelined said last week he was “utterly stunned” when he watched the programme and saw the evidence his team had passed to the McCanns five years ago presented as a breakthrough.

The team of investigators from the security firm Oakley International were hired by the McCanns’ Find Madeleine fund, which bankrolled private investigations into the girl’s disappearance. They were led by Henri Exton, MI5’s former undercover operations chief.

Their report, seen by The Sunday Times, focused on a sighting by an Irish family of a man carrying a child at about 10pm on May 3, 2007, when Madeleine went missing.

An earlier sighting by one of the McCanns’ friends was dismissed as less credible after “serious inconsistencies” were found in her evidence. The report also raised questions about “anomalies” in the statements given by the McCanns and their friends.

Exton confirmed last week that the fund had silenced his investigators for years after they handed over their controversial findings. He said: “A letter came from their lawyers binding us to the confidentiality of the report.”

He claimed the legal threat had prevented him from handing over the report to Scotland Yard’s fresh investigation, until detectives had obtained written permission from the fund.

A source close to the fund said the report was considered “hypercritical of the people involved” and “would have been completely distracting” if it became public.

Kate and Gerry McCann: now officially not suspects, say the Portuguese authoritiesKate and Gerry McCann: now officially not suspects, say the Portuguese authorities (Adrian Sheratt) Oakley’s six-month investigation included placing undercover agents inside the Ocean Club where the family stayed, lie detector tests, covert surveillance and a forensic re-examination of all existing evidence.

It was immediately clear that two sightings of vital importance had been reported to the police. Two men were seen carrying children near the apartments between 9pm, when Madeleine was last seen by Gerry, and 10pm, when Kate discovered her missing.

The first man was seen at 9.15pm by Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCanns, who had been dining with them at the tapas bar in the resort. She saw a man carrying a girl just yards from the apartment as she went to check on her children.

The second sighting was by Martin Smith and his family from Ireland, who saw a man carrying a child near the apartment just before 10pm.

The earlier Tanner sighting had always been treated as the most significant, but the Oakley team controversially poured cold water on her account.

Instead, they focused on the Smith sighting, travelling to Ireland to interview the family and produce E-Fits of the man they saw. Their report said the Smiths were “helpful and sincere” and concluded: “The Smith sighting is credible evidence of a sighting of Maddie and more credible than Jane Tanner’s sighting”. The evidence had been “neglected for too long” and an “overemphasis placed on Tanner”.

The new focus shifted the believed timeline of the abduction back by 45 minutes.

The pictures of a man who may have taken Madeleine were drawn up in 2008The pictures of a man who may have taken Madeleine were drawn up in 2008 (Adrian Sheratt) The report, delivered to the McCanns in November 2008, recommended that the revised timeline should be the basis for future investigations and that the Smith E-Fits should be released without delay.

The potential abductor seen by the Smiths is now the prime suspect in Scotland Yard’s investigation, after detectives established that the man seen earlier by Tanner was almost certainly a father carrying his child home from a nearby night creche. The Smith E-Fits were the centrepiece of the Crimewatch appeal.

One of the Oakley investigators said last week: “I was absolutely stunned when I watched the programme . . . It most certainly wasn’t a new timeline and it certainly isn’t a new revelation. It is absolute nonsense to suggest either of those things . . . And those E-Fits you saw on Crimewatch are ours,” he said.

The detailed images of the face of the man seen by the Smith family were never released by the McCanns. But an artist’s impression of the man seen earlier by Tanner was widely promoted, even though the face had to be left blank because she had only seen him fleetingly and from a distance.

Various others images of lone men spotted hanging around the resort at other times were also released.

Nor were the Smith E-Fits included in Kate McCann’s 2011 book, Madeleine, which contained a whole section on eight “key sightings” and identified those of the Smiths and Tanner as most “crucial”. Descriptions of all seven other sightings were accompanied by an E-Fit or artist’s impression. The Smiths’ were the only exception. So why was such a “crucial” piece of evidence kept under lock and key?

The relationship between the fund and Oakley was already souring by the time the report was submitted — and its findings could only have made matters worse.

As well as questioning parts of the McCanns’ evidence, it contained sensitive information about Madeleine’s sleeping patterns and raised the highly sensitive possibility that she could have died in an accident after leaving the apartment herself from one of two unsecured doors.

There was also an uncomfortable complication with Smith’s account. He had originally told the police that he had “recognised something” about the way Gerry McCann carried one of his children which reminded him of the man he had seen in Praia da Luz.

Smith has since stressed that he does not believe the man he saw was Gerry, and Scotland Yard do not consider this a possibility. Last week the McCanns were told officially by the Portuguese authorities that they are not suspects.

The McCanns were also understandably wary of Oakley after allegations that the chairman, Kevin Halligen, failed to pass on money paid by the fund to Exton’s team. Halligen denies this. He was later convicted of fraud in an unrelated case in the US.

The McCann fund source said the Oakley report was passed on to new private investigators after the contract ended, but that the firm’s work was considered “contaminated” by the financial dispute.

He said the fund wanted to continue to pursue information about the man seen by Tanner, and it would have been too expensive to investigate both sightings in full — so the Smith E-Fits were not publicised. It was also considered necessary to threaten legal action against the authors.

“[The report] was hypercritical of the people involved . . . It just wouldn’t be conducive to the investigation to have that report publicly declared because . . . the newspapers would have been all over it. And it would have been completely distracting,” said the source.

A statement released by the Find Madeleine fund said that “all information privately gathered during the search for Madeleine has been fully acted upon where necessary” and had been passed to Scotland Yard.

It continued: “Throughout the investigation, the Find Madeleine fund’s sole priority has been, and remains, to find Madeleine and bring her home as swiftly as possible.”

Insight: Heidi Blake and Jonathan Calvert

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Praiaaa on 29.10.13 13:32

[quote="nobodythereeither"]
@sallypelt wrote:.

Sorry but I'm pretty sure any body is not "hidden" anywhere findable.
sadly agree - IMO they would not take any chances

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by nobodythereeither on 29.10.13 13:43

Praiia, it's not a big deal, but Sally Pelt didn't say that, I did ..... you've deleted what SP said,  but left her name with  my original words!

ETA: And not sure if this is just a rumour, and I don't have a link, but wasn't Gerry McCann reported as saying "Find the body and prove we killed her"??

I think it was around the time of the publicity about the dogs alerting.

I'm pretty sure he knew the body was not findable.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by tracey1270 on 29.10.13 13:47

I personally do not believe it was a homicide, I do think it was an accident and the parents have covered it up.  The Mcann's said themselves they thought the children had been sedated because the twins even after lots of noise and activity and being moved out of the apartment did not wake up.  I believe after Madeleine had said she was crying rather than do the right thing and stay home, they decided to sedate them to prevent them waking up while they were out and Madeleine either had a reaction to some kind of sedative or was disorientated under the influence of sedation had an accident in the apartment or went outside and fell.  I think the Mcann's found her and realising the implications being doctors decided to cover it up and say she had been abducted.  The Mcann's clearly said they thought the children had been drugged but later said any suggestion of this was ludicrous.  Just a theory of course like many others but I think it is very possible, not for a second since day one did I think that little girl was abducted, their behaviour has been bizarre straight from the beginning.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Silver Shuffle on 29.10.13 13:54

@tracey1270 wrote:I personally do not believe it was a homicide, I do think it was an accident and the parents have covered it up.  The Mcann's said themselves they thought the children had been sedated because the twins even after lots of noise and activity and being moved out of the apartment did not wake up.  I believe after Madeleine had said she was crying rather than do the right thing and stay home, they decided to sedate them to prevent them waking up while they were out and Madeleine either had a reaction to some kind of sedative or was disorientated under the influence of sedation had an accident in the apartment or went outside and fell.  I think the Mcann's found her and realising the implications being doctors decided to cover it up and say she had been abducted.  The Mcann's clearly said they thought the children had been drugged but later said they said any suggestion of this was ludicrous.  Just a theory of course like many others but I think it is very possible, not for a second since day one did I think that little girl was abducted, their behaviour has been bizarre straight from the beginning.
I tend to agree...the only Thing that puts me in doubt, is Gerry "pushing" the paedophile bit..

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Cristobell on 29.10.13 13:56

@tracey1270 wrote:I personally do not believe it was a homicide, I do think it was an accident and the parents have covered it up.  The Mcann's said themselves they thought the children had been sedated because the twins even after lots of noise and activity and being moved out of the apartment did not wake up.  I believe after Madeleine had said she was crying rather than do the right thing and stay home, they decided to sedate them to prevent them waking up while they were out and Madeleine either had a reaction to some kind of sedative or was disorientated under the influence of sedation had an accident in the apartment or went outside and fell.  I think the Mcann's found her and realising the implications being doctors decided to cover it up and say she had been abducted.  The Mcann's clearly said they thought the children had been drugged but later said they said any suggestion of this was ludicrous.  Just a theory of course like many others but I think it is very possible, not for a second since day one did I think that little girl was abducted, their behaviour has been bizarre straight from the beginning.
It may or may not have been homicide, but it chills me to the bone that Kate and Gerry walked out those patio doors leaving those 3 tiny children to their own fate.  And worse, the alerts of the blood and cadaver dogs suggest Madeleine died behind the sofa in 5A and lay there for a long time.  That poor baby most likely died alone and frightened, while parents were down the tapas bar with their mates.  Whenever I feel a twinge of sympathy for that odious pair, I think about that child crying for help that never came.

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Len Port in the Algarve news

Post by PeterMac on 29.10.13 13:57

http://www.algarvenewswatch.blogspot.com.es/
Portugal Newswatch
Reflections on current affairs in Portugal by journalist and author Len Port.

Monday, October 28, 2013

More bizarre twists in McCann saga
It turns out that Kate and Gerry McCann suppressed for five years ‘critical evidence’ that became the centrepiece of the recent BBC Crimewatch programme on the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine.
Findings by ex-MI5 agents long kept under wraps by the McCanns included the two e-fit images described in the Crimwatch programme by Scotland Yard’s Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood as of “vital importance.”
The images are of a suspected kidnapper seen by an Irish family in Praia da Luz the night Madeleine went missing.
They were given to the McCanns by a handpicked team of investigators from Oakley International hired by the McCanns’ Find Madeleine fund in 2008.
Henri Exton, an MI5’s former undercover operations chief who led the team, told the Sunday Times he was “utterly stunned” when he watched the Crimewatch programme and saw the evidence he had passed to the McCanns presented as a new breakthrough.
He said the fund had silenced his team with a lawyer’s letter binding them to the confidentiality of a report they had compiled that contained controversial findings. Mr Exton said the legal threat had prevented them from handing over the report to Scotland Yard’s investigation until detectives had obtained written permission from the fund.
The Oakley International report, delivered in November 2008, gave little credibility to Jane Tanner’s 9.15pm sighting and focused instead on the 10pm sighting by the Irish Smith family. The investigators recommended that their e-fit images be released without delay.
For some reason the images were not published even in Kate McCann’s 2011 book Madeleine, though it devoted a whole section to eight “key sightings” and carried e-fits on all of them except the Smiths’.
In its Insight report, the Sunday Times quoted one of the Oakley International investigators as saying: “I was absolutely stunned when I watched the programme . . . It most certainly wasn’t a new timeline and it certainly isn’t a new revelation. It is absolute nonsense to suggest either of those things . . . And those e-fits you saw on Crimewatch are ours.”
The hushed-up report is said to have questioned parts of the McCanns’ evidence, contained sensitive information about Madeleine’s sleeping patterns and raised the highly sensitive possibility that she could have died in an accident after leaving the apartment herself from one of two unsecured doors.
The Sunday Times quoted a source close to the Find Madeleine fund as saying the report was considered “hypercritical of the people involved” and “would have been completely distracting” if it became public.
In fact, the Portuguese lead detective Gonçalo Amaral considered the Irish sighting to be very important back in May 2007 when the Smith family first reported it to the Policía Judiciária. Details of the sighting and ‘hypercritical information’ were in the public domain early in January 2008, three months before the Oakley team arrived on the scene.

Ebullience at the huge response to their Crimewatch programme turned to embarrassment in certain quarters when it was revealed yesterday that the BBC had cast a porn star in the ‘reconstruction’ of events the night Madeleine disappeared.
With such films such films as ‘Tight Rider,’ ‘Dr Screw’ and ‘From Dusk Till Porn’ on his CV, the actor Mark Sloan was engaged by the BBC to represent one of the McCanns’ holidaying friends with whom they dined each night, Dr Matt Oldfield.
“How could the casting director not know of his background when they picked him? It’s all over Google. Did no one check? It is unbelievably stupid,” an agent, who did not wish to be named, told the Daily Star.

Meanwhile, although a new Portuguese police investigation only became official last week, a PJ team in Oporto in the north of Portugal has been reviewing the case for some time, and another PJ team in Faro in the Algarve has been assisting Scotland Yard with their inquiries. It is believed that the new Portuguese investigation will be conducted by group of PJ detectives working independently of Scotland Yard.

Things seem to be hotting up, though there is still no end to the mystery in sight.

____________________


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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by tracey1270 on 29.10.13 14:05

@Silver Shuffle wrote:
@tracey1270 wrote:I personally do not believe it was a homicide, I do think it was an accident and the parents have covered it up.  The Mcann's said themselves they thought the children had been sedated because the twins even after lots of noise and activity and being moved out of the apartment did not wake up.  I believe after Madeleine had said she was crying rather than do the right thing and stay home, they decided to sedate them to prevent them waking up while they were out and Madeleine either had a reaction to some kind of sedative or was disorientated under the influence of sedation had an accident in the apartment or went outside and fell.  I think the Mcann's found her and realising the implications being doctors decided to cover it up and say she had been abducted.  The Mcann's clearly said they thought the children had been drugged but later said they said any suggestion of this was ludicrous.  Just a theory of course like many others but I think it is very possible, not for a second since day one did I think that little girl was abducted, their behaviour has been bizarre straight from the beginning.
I tend to agree...the only Thing that puts me in doubt, is Gerry "pushing" the paedophile bit..
The Mcann's will push anything as long as it diverts away from them.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by lj on 29.10.13 14:13

@Mirage wrote:Parliamentary Committee Questions on Police practice. December 2013.

         AR: I'd just like to say Good morning and thank you all for coming today.

Chairman:   I think you'll find that's my job, Mr R. Now can you give us a breakdown of your investigation?

          AR:  Well, it was important for us to understand what other countries were making of what has proved to be a very complex case.

Chairman:  And that has involved you in what exactly?

          AR:  Well as I say, it was very important for us to understand properly and to explore any wild-goose chases leads in other countries with regard to  the bodge up on-going investigation.

Chairman: Can you get to the point please Mr R. We have six hours, not six years, to spin this out.

         AR: Well I, that is we, felt it very important that the McCanns should accompany us on a tour of foreign television studios to present the baloney facts of the case to a wider public via carefully edited footage of the night in question. As you can imagine, that involved all of us sitting on rather a lot of TV sofas! 

Chairman: And what else did you all sit on, Mr R?
Tahnk you ! winkwink Let's not forget SY sat on this too for months, waiting for an opportune moment to tune out news coming from the trial against Dr. Amaral to let it see the light.

Revelations?? Did he go to church with Gerry and saw the pot with gold golden light at the end of the tunnel?

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"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by tracey1270 on 29.10.13 14:17

@Cristobell wrote:
@tracey1270 wrote:I personally do not believe it was a homicide, I do think it was an accident and the parents have covered it up.  The Mcann's said themselves they thought the children had been sedated because the twins even after lots of noise and activity and being moved out of the apartment did not wake up.  I believe after Madeleine had said she was crying rather than do the right thing and stay home, they decided to sedate them to prevent them waking up while they were out and Madeleine either had a reaction to some kind of sedative or was disorientated under the influence of sedation had an accident in the apartment or went outside and fell.  I think the Mcann's found her and realising the implications being doctors decided to cover it up and say she had been abducted.  The Mcann's clearly said they thought the children had been drugged but later said they said any suggestion of this was ludicrous.  Just a theory of course like many others but I think it is very possible, not for a second since day one did I think that little girl was abducted, their behaviour has been bizarre straight from the beginning.
It may or may not have been homicide, but it chills me to the bone that Kate and Gerry walked out those patio doors leaving those 3 tiny children to their own fate.  And worse, the alerts of the blood and cadaver dogs suggest Madeleine died behind the sofa in 5A and lay there for a long time.  That poor baby most likely died alone and frightened, while parents were down the tapas bar with their mates.  Whenever I feel a twinge of sympathy for that odious pair, I think about that child crying for help that never came.
There is no doubt in my mind that the dogs were right and Madeleine's body was in that apartment, just so awful to think parents could do such a thing, we are all guilty of making mistakes, turned out backs for a little while, recently a child in my area died in the bath, he was in a bath seat and overturned, the mother was only gone a minute, I would never judge that lady my heart goes out to her because it was nothing more than a tragic accident, the Mcann's however do not get my sympathy, they chose to leave their children even when as they said themselves their daughter was crying for them..so they went out and left them alone and vulnerable again, they made a choice, there was no mistake.  Saw a post last night saying those of us against the Mcann's are trolls, but people know the difference between a caring parent and an uncaring irresponsible one, manslaughter, homicide or something else, they are guilty of child neglect at the very least and it infuriates me to see them swanning about like celebrities using money donated by the public to defend their reputations instead of finding their daughter..they disgust me.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Okeydokey on 29.10.13 14:28

@jozi wrote:
@SchrodingersBody wrote:
@KellyLennon wrote:Update from findmadeleine.com 

24TH OCT 

Gerry and Kate will not be giving any comments regarding the progress of the investigation unless there is a significant breakthrough.


Would have thought hidden evidence is deemed as significant. 
and how ironic if that comment is "no comment"
Well they never speak only through their paid GOB piece.....Where is he by the way ???
Whyever not? I thought they were searching for their child - and the child could be in any European, North African or other country.  Surely they will be out there talking about the progress of the investigation as they have done before. Very odd. Remember when they used to tour European capitals and talk to the Pope?

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by lj on 29.10.13 15:19

@kinell wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Better rush to order your tat quickly in case this terrible news is true!
 
http://www.findmadeleine.com/online_store/index.html
I was wondering if its possible that nothing has changed on this site, with Tannerman still being on there etc etc..... Could it be possible that it may be due to it being part of evidence, so maybe SY has got some sort of warrant or something to have it not to be altered ? Only thing I can think of why nothing has changed....
Isn't Kate McCann due to give a speech about Missing People soon? If that goes ahead and she's able to continue to spout her lies then I will assume nothing has changed in this case.
If she does, than both missing children and Kate are bigger frauds than I already suspected.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by gbwales on 29.10.13 15:30

Nov 3rd - Radio 4.
I've already contacted the BBC questioning the decision in the light of her suppressing the eFit leads in the search for her own child for 5 years.

____________________
"You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere and I go everywhere."

Mr Universe to Malcolm Reynolds, "Serenity" (2005)

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by nobodythereeither on 29.10.13 16:32

@tracey1270 wrote:I personally do not believe it was a homicide, I do think it was an accident and the parents have covered it up.  The Mcann's said themselves they thought the children had been sedated because the twins even after lots of noise and activity and being moved out of the apartment did not wake up.  I believe after Madeleine had said she was crying rather than do the right thing and stay home, they decided to sedate them to prevent them waking up while they were out and Madeleine either had a reaction to some kind of sedative or was disorientated under the influence of sedation had an accident in the apartment or went outside and fell.  I think the Mcann's found her and realising the implications being doctors decided to cover it up and say she had been abducted.  The Mcann's clearly said they thought the children had been drugged but later said any suggestion of this was ludicrous.  Just a theory of course like many others but I think it is very possible, not for a second since day one did I think that little girl was abducted, their behaviour has been bizarre straight from the beginning.
I had a similar theory until very recently, but I am now beginning to think darker thoughts sad

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by ultimaThule on 29.10.13 17:38

@nobodythereeither wrote:
@tracey1270 wrote:I personally do not believe it was a homicide, I do think it was an accident and the parents have covered it up.  The Mcann's said themselves they thought the children had been sedated because the twins even after lots of noise and activity and being moved out of the apartment did not wake up.  I believe after Madeleine had said she was crying rather than do the right thing and stay home, they decided to sedate them to prevent them waking up while they were out and Madeleine either had a reaction to some kind of sedative or was disorientated under the influence of sedation had an accident in the apartment or went outside and fell.  I think the Mcann's found her and realising the implications being doctors decided to cover it up and say she had been abducted.  The Mcann's clearly said they thought the children had been drugged but later said any suggestion of this was ludicrous.  Just a theory of course like many others but I think it is very possible, not for a second since day one did I think that little girl was abducted, their behaviour has been bizarre straight from the beginning.
I had a similar theory until very recently, but I am now beginning to think darker thoughts sad
I was suspicious of the story when heard it on the radio on the morning of 4 May 2007.  When I first saw the McCanns appearance on tv, it seemed obvious to me they had manufactured the story of an abduction because they had concealed the body of their daughter out of fear of what would have emerged on autopsy.  

We may never know whether the child died of an overdose administered by one or other her parents or whether she sustined a fatal non-accidental injury, or injuries, but I've always thought it more probable this is a case of cherchez la femme and follow the money to the father.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Woburn_exile on 29.10.13 17:45

I personally do not believe it was a homicide, I do think it was an accident and the parents have covered it up.

This is precisely why this case needs to be treated as a homicide. If it was truly an accident then why the rush to involve the media, family members, friends in influential positions. Why establish a timeline of dubious accountability BEFORE contacting the Police? Why put on the "praying arab" act simultaneously? Why invent a story about the break-in? Peter mac answered effectively on another thread what police officers really look for. Then why go all out on the abduction theory from the get go? To protect their miserable reputations as parents? Personally when I heard the news my first thought was "what rubbish parents they must be". I know that probably 90% of parents will agree with me on that one. What is being covered up?
shark shark shark 

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by plebgate on 29.10.13 17:46

@gbwales wrote:Nov 3rd - Radio 4.
I've already contacted the BBC questioning the decision in the light of her suppressing the eFit leads in the search for her own child for 5 years.
Well done gbwales.  well done. clapping

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60-80%

Post by ProfMoriarty on 29.10.13 18:20

And yet. Additional statement from Mr Smith, 30 January 2008.

Detective Branch
Drogheda
County Lough

Re – Investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

I took an additional statement from Mr Smith as requested. His wife does not want to make another statement. I showed him the video clip and he stated that it was not the clip that alerted him but the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007.

He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology. His photograph appeared in another tabloid paper and this matter is being pursued at the moment.

I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person.

Forwarded please

Sergeant

Liam Hogan

I hereby declare that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and that I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I will be liable to prosecution if i state in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.


I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10' in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Ashwarya on 29.10.13 18:21

@plebgate wrote:
@gbwales wrote:Nov 3rd - Radio 4.
I've already contacted the BBC questioning the decision in the light of her suppressing the eFit leads in the search for her own child for 5 years.
Well done gbwales.  well done. clapping
A couple of years ago some of us contacted the BBC about their decision for Kate McCann to be "interviewed" by Aled Jones on his radio show, pointing out that up to then he had an unsullied reputation which would be damaged by propagating McCann spin.  The opinions of listeners were ignored and the interview went ahead.  There is even a photo of Aled with her, both grinning.  We don't seem to hear much of Aled these days, even on Songs of Praise, and I personally think that is a shame as I thought he was a genuinely decent man who was being used in the laundering of their image.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by chillyheat on 29.10.13 18:26

@ProfMoriarty wrote:And yet. Additional statement from Mr Smith, 30 January 2008.

Detective Branch
Drogheda
County Lough

Re – Investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

I took an additional statement from Mr Smith as requested. His wife does not want to make another statement. I showed him the video clip and he stated that it was not the clip that alerted him but the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007.

He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology. His photograph appeared in another tabloid paper and this matter is being pursued at the moment.

I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person.

Forwarded please

Sergeant

Liam Hogan

I hereby declare that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and that I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I will be liable to prosecution if i state in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.


I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10' in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.
Might be nothing......But why Gerard and not the correct spelling of Gerald ?
Was this statement written by Mr Smith or written down by the officer ?

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by plebgate on 29.10.13 18:30

@Ashwarya wrote:
@plebgate wrote:
@gbwales wrote:Nov 3rd - Radio 4.
I've already contacted the BBC questioning the decision in the light of her suppressing the eFit leads in the search for her own child for 5 years.
Well done gbwales.  well done. clapping
A couple of years ago some of us contacted the BBC about their decision for Kate McCann to be "interviewed" by Aled Jones on his radio show, pointing out that up to then he had an unsullied reputation which would be damaged by propagating McCann spin.  The opinions of listeners were ignored and the interview went ahead.  There is even a photo of Aled with her, both grinning.  We don't seem to hear much of Aled these days, even on Songs of Praise, and I personally think that is a shame as I thought he was a genuinely decent man who was being used in the laundering of their image.
Aled has been hosting Daybreak on itv for a couple of years with wee Kelly.

It was reported a couple of weeks ago that the ratings are not good enough and that Aled might be leaving to be replaced by Eamon Holmes.   A report in the newspaper so don't know if it is correct or not.

I wondered why only Aled would be given the elbow if there are two presenters on the show?

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by plebgate on 29.10.13 18:31

@ChillyHeat wrote:
@ProfMoriarty wrote:And yet. Additional statement from Mr Smith, 30 January 2008.

Detective Branch
Drogheda
County Lough

Re – Investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

I took an additional statement from Mr Smith as requested. His wife does not want to make another statement. I showed him the video clip and he stated that it was not the clip that alerted him but the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007.

He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology. His photograph appeared in another tabloid paper and this matter is being pursued at the moment.

I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person.

Forwarded please

Sergeant

Liam Hogan

I hereby declare that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and that I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I will be liable to prosecution if i state in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.


I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10' in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.
Might be nothing......But why Gerard and not the correct spelling of Gerald ?
Was this statement written by Mr Smith or written down by the officer ?
I think the police normally take it down and it is signed by the witness?

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by chillyheat on 29.10.13 18:36

@plebgate wrote:
@ChillyHeat wrote:
@ProfMoriarty wrote:And yet. Additional statement from Mr Smith, 30 January 2008.

Detective Branch
Drogheda
County Lough

Re – Investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

I took an additional statement from Mr Smith as requested. His wife does not want to make another statement. I showed him the video clip and he stated that it was not the clip that alerted him but the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007.

He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology. His photograph appeared in another tabloid paper and this matter is being pursued at the moment.

I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person.

Forwarded please

Sergeant

Liam Hogan

I hereby declare that this statement is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and that I make it knowing that if it is tendered in evidence I will be liable to prosecution if i state in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true.


I would like to state that the statement I made on 26th May 2007 in Portugal is correct. The description of the individual that I saw on 3rd May 2007 carrying a child is as follows. He was average build, 5 foot 10' in height, brown hair cut short, aged 40 years approximately. Wearing beige trousers and darkish top maybe a jacket or blazer. He had a full head of hair with a tight cut. This individual was alone. I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.
Might be nothing......But why Gerard and not the correct spelling of Gerald ?
Was this statement written by Mr Smith or written down by the officer ?
I think the police normally take it down and it is signed by the witness?
So its possible the officer had a good read up on the situation before taking the statement....So why is the officer fixed on this spelling. If you put Gerard McCann in google search, hardly anything about Gerald McCann is mentioned.....Im thinking along the lines of that CAT number or whatever it was.

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by chillyheat on 29.10.13 18:38

Gerald may change to Gerard when it suits him........

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Re: WOW A MUST READ -Madeleine clues hidden for five years - Sunday Times Full article now on Page 1

Post by Guest on 29.10.13 19:10

It looks like it is a typed up statement of Mr Smith........just guessing, but the [sic] after the word Gerard means.....



sic1
sɪk/
adverb
adverb: sic

  1. 1.
    used in brackets after a copied or quoted word that appears odd or erroneous to show that the word is quoted exactly as it stands in the original,





So either MR Smith said Gerard, or maybe his accent, or maybe written that way.  Nothing untoward I would say.

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