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The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

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The time of the Smith sighting

Post by RIPM on 08.11.13 16:46

@PeterMac wrote:
@RIPM wrote:
 However I have your best interests in mind and would be very concerned for you sending this article to me, or anyone else, relating to your legal status.  Please take this in a spirit of good will and not as any kind of threat.  I will obtain this article, read it and contact you privately.
Given TB's legal status - as the only person in the entire world not permitted to say that the Tanner sighting was a load of cack, even though the McCanns and SY have now admitted it ! ! -
May I assist.
You will find the article on
http://madeleinefoundation.org.uk/
"articles"
Nos 20.0  to 20.6
Thank you!

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Guest on 08.11.13 16:47

@aquila wrote:Thanks for mentioning how dangerous the internet is.

I love your name by the way...and its intials...CR...now what establishment has the initials CR I wonder.
Bloody hell you need a thick skin to post here. Although I well understand your caution. 

(Knew I should have gone with Patrick Tambay. Although if I'd picked Carlos Reutemann I'd have ended up in exactly the same boat....)

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Mirage on 08.11.13 16:48

I've been reading here a couple of days. Trying to clear my head of the fog - not an easy task!

 Some observations:-

The MET have a duty to the public to be demonstrably unbiased, accountable and professional in any investigation. On that basis, the following needs to happen pdq IMO:-

The McCann website should be taken down with immediate effect and an admission made that it should have been done as soon as the investigation began.

An explanation given as to why the McCanns were able to dictate Spain be used for CW recon. (Reason given demonstrably untrue)

Reasons for why the CW recons varied wildly between countries in crucial details.

A statement of clarification following the Cape Verdean suspect being promoted in the press. Who exactly do the MET want the public to be considering in e-fit terms given the massive expense of promoting CW here and abroad?

An explanation as to why the recon departed from the usual format of CW, in that it didn't show evidence of the open shutters and window. If the McCanns are not suspects then they have told the truth. The accepted truth by the MET is then tacit; i.e that the evidence of the McCanns re the open window and KMs whooshing curtains are put beyond doubt.

Right, there's probably more I, or any of us, could add but this is just for starters. This investigation hasdescended into farce. It's not exactly enhancing the reputation of the UK is it? So, while the "investigators" have lost their head, let's be careful not to lose ours.

With all this in mind I have come to some firm conclusions:

I do not take the word of the MET on trust.
I do not take the word of the McCanns on trust.
I do not take the word of the Smiths on trust.
I do not necessarily take the word of the new PT investigators on trust.

What may or may not be true is that elements of the MET, the McCann, and the Smith versions may contain a grain of truth in each.  Which is why we have the confused situation they all seem to want and which has led to everyone having a ruck (without the carter) on here for the last several days.

Back to basics. Forget the recons. Forget the Smiths. Forget Tannerman. Forget everything put in the public domain for our edification and stupefaction.

Some knowns:-

 A child disappeared.
No evidence of an abduction.
Lies told about the state of the apartment.
Conflicting statements from T9
False testimony against RM
T9 able to read each others' statements prior to LP rogatories
A subsequent pact of silence sworn by T9 when back in the UK
A sighting promoted by T9 and discredited after 6.5 yrs.
Another sighting kept from the public for 6.5 years by former arguidos, now promoted.
Alerts to cadaverine and blood given by two world-renowned sniffer dogs, independently, and to objects and places associated with two people now declared non-suspects by MET.
The Portuguese investigator removed from post having reached conclusion parents were suspects
Unprecedented expenditure of £6million and rising on the review and investigation.
Almost zero reportage of the McCann v Amaral libel case.
Non-co-operation by UK in the early stages of investigation regarding basic information to be sent to PT investigation.
No evidence in word or deed of current co-operation between Portuguese and UK investigators
Public comment on the case systematically supressed.

NB List not exhaustive

It is quite obvious that there has been huge disagreement on the Smith issue. I have my doubts/thoughts/suspicions/ mullings just the same as everybody else as you can see from the above. There are people who are steeped in knowledge far beyond mine and who have dedicated 6yrs or more to uncovering everything that is humanly possible and sometimes at huge personal cost. But if I can offer anything it is this: I spent some time talking to someone about this case yesterday. I realised ears were flapping, it being a public place. It quickly became apparent that people were interested but had VERY limited knowledge.

 Only the public in numbers can force this issue. We now have to be as canny as the Mcs in our PR and it is the time, after 6 wearying years, to stay strong for Madeleine's sake.

____________________
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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by aquila on 08.11.13 16:48

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Clay Regazzoni was a Swiss racing driver, Aquila.

No I didn't know until a minute ago!

I'm glad that my Internet provider is happy with the Madeleine Foundation website.
As a racing fan I'm well aware of who Clay Regazzoni is/was.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Guest on 08.11.13 16:50

I'm afraid that I didn't progress much from Stirling Moss!

Belated welcome Clay.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by aquila on 08.11.13 16:51

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@aquila wrote:Thanks for mentioning how dangerous the internet is.

I love your name by the way...and its intials...CR...now what establishment has the initials CR I wonder.
Bloody hell you need a thick skin to post here. Although I well understand your caution. 

(Knew I should have gone with Patrick Tambay. Although if I'd picked Carlos Reutemann I'd have ended up in exactly the same boat....)
Ha ha ha...you'll do well here...you have a fireproof suit.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Daisy on 08.11.13 16:59

@Mirage wrote:I've been reading here a couple of days. Trying to clear my head of the fog - not an easy task!

 Some observations:-

The MET have a duty to the public to be demonstrably unbiased, accountable and professional in any investigation. On that basis, the following needs to happen pdq IMO:-

The McCann website should be taken down with immediate effect and an admission made that it should have been done as soon as the investigation began.

An explanation given as to why the McCanns were able to dictate Spain be used for CW recon. (Reason given demonstrably untrue)

Reasons for why the CW recons varied wildly between countries in crucial details.

A statement of clarification following the Cape Verdean suspect being promoted in the press. Who exactly do the MET want the public to be considering in e-fit terms given the massive expense of promoting CW here and abroad?

An explanation as to why the recon departed from the usual format of CW, in that it didn't show evidence of the open shutters and window. If the McCanns are not suspects then they have told the truth. The accepted truth by the MET is then tacit; i.e that the evidence of the McCanns re the open window and KMs whooshing curtains are put beyond doubt.

Right, there's probably more I, or any of us, could add but this is just for starters. This investigation hasdescended into farce. It's not exactly enhancing the reputation of the UK is it? So, while the "investigators" have lost their head, let's be careful not to lose ours.

With all this in mind I have come to some firm conclusions:

I do not take the word of the MET on trust.
I do not take the word of the McCanns on trust.
I do not take the word of the Smiths on trust.
I do not necessarily take the word of the new PT investigators on trust.

What may or may not be true is that elements of the MET, the McCann, and the Smith versions may contain a grain of truth in each.  Which is why we have the confused situation they all seem to want and which has led to everyone having a ruck (without the carter) on here for the last several days.

Back to basics. Forget the recons. Forget the Smiths. Forget Tannerman. Forget everything put in the public domain for our edification and stupefaction.

Some knowns:-

 A child disappeared.
No evidence of an abduction.
Lies told about the state of the apartment.
Conflicting statements from T9
False testimony against RM
T9 able to read each others' statements prior to LP rogatories
A subsequent pact of silence sworn by T9 when back in the UK
A sighting promoted by T9 and discredited after 6.5 yrs.
Another sighting kept from the public for 6.5 years by former arguidos, now promoted.
Alerts to cadaverine and blood given by two world-renowned sniffer dogs, independently, and to objects and places associated with two people now declared non-suspects by MET.
The Portuguese investigator removed from post having reached conclusion parents were suspects
Unprecedented expenditure of £6million and rising on the review and investigation.
Almost zero reportage of the McCann v Amaral libel case.
Non-co-operation by UK in the early stages of investigation regarding basic information to be sent to PT investigation.
No evidence in word or deed of current co-operation between Portuguese and UK investigators
Public comment on the case systematically supressed.

NB List not exhaustive

It is quite obvious that there has been huge disagreement on the Smith issue. I have my doubts/thoughts/suspicions/ mullings just the same as everybody else as you can see from the above. There are people who are steeped in knowledge far beyond mine and who have dedicated 6yrs or more to uncovering everything that is humanly possible and sometimes at huge personal cost. But if I can offer anything it is this: I spent some time talking to someone about this case yesterday. I realised ears were flapping, it being a public place. It quickly became apparent that people were interested but had VERY limited knowledge.

 Only the public in numbers can force this issue. We now have to be as canny as the Mcs in our PR and it is the time, after 6 wearying years, to stay strong for Madeleine's sake.
Bloody good post that, well put Mirage. thanks

____________________
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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Mirage on 08.11.13 17:02

@Daisy wrote:
@Mirage wrote:I've been reading here a couple of days. Trying to clear my head of the fog - not an easy task!

 Some observations:-

The MET have a duty to the public to be demonstrably unbiased, accountable and professional in any investigation. On that basis, the following needs to happen pdq IMO:-

The McCann website should be taken down with immediate effect and an admission made that it should have been done as soon as the investigation began.

An explanation given as to why the McCanns were able to dictate Spain be used for CW recon. (Reason given demonstrably untrue)

Reasons for why the CW recons varied wildly between countries in crucial details.

A statement of clarification following the Cape Verdean suspect being promoted in the press. Who exactly do the MET want the public to be considering in e-fit terms given the massive expense of promoting CW here and abroad?

An explanation as to why the recon departed from the usual format of CW, in that it didn't show evidence of the open shutters and window. If the McCanns are not suspects then they have told the truth. The accepted truth by the MET is then tacit; i.e that the evidence of the McCanns re the open window and KMs whooshing curtains are put beyond doubt.

Right, there's probably more I, or any of us, could add but this is just for starters. This investigation hasdescended into farce. It's not exactly enhancing the reputation of the UK is it? So, while the "investigators" have lost their head, let's be careful not to lose ours.

With all this in mind I have come to some firm conclusions:

I do not take the word of the MET on trust.
I do not take the word of the McCanns on trust.
I do not take the word of the Smiths on trust.
I do not necessarily take the word of the new PT investigators on trust.

What may or may not be true is that elements of the MET, the McCann, and the Smith versions may contain a grain of truth in each.  Which is why we have the confused situation they all seem to want and which has led to everyone having a ruck (without the carter) on here for the last several days.

Back to basics. Forget the recons. Forget the Smiths. Forget Tannerman. Forget everything put in the public domain for our edification and stupefaction.

Some knowns:-

 A child disappeared.
No evidence of an abduction.
Lies told about the state of the apartment.
Conflicting statements from T9
False testimony against RM
T9 able to read each others' statements prior to LP rogatories
A subsequent pact of silence sworn by T9 when back in the UK
A sighting promoted by T9 and discredited after 6.5 yrs.
Another sighting kept from the public for 6.5 years by former arguidos, now promoted.
Alerts to cadaverine and blood given by two world-renowned sniffer dogs, independently, and to objects and places associated with two people now declared non-suspects by MET.
The Portuguese investigator removed from post having reached conclusion parents were suspects
Unprecedented expenditure of £6million and rising on the review and investigation.
Almost zero reportage of the McCann v Amaral libel case.
Non-co-operation by UK in the early stages of investigation regarding basic information to be sent to PT investigation.
No evidence in word or deed of current co-operation between Portuguese and UK investigators
Public comment on the case systematically supressed.

NB List not exhaustive

It is quite obvious that there has been huge disagreement on the Smith issue. I have my doubts/thoughts/suspicions/ mullings just the same as everybody else as you can see from the above. There are people who are steeped in knowledge far beyond mine and who have dedicated 6yrs or more to uncovering everything that is humanly possible and sometimes at huge personal cost. But if I can offer anything it is this: I spent some time talking to someone about this case yesterday. I realised ears were flapping, it being a public place. It quickly became apparent that people were interested but had VERY limited knowledge.

 Only the public in numbers can force this issue. We now have to be as canny as the Mcs in our PR and it is the time, after 6 wearying years, to stay strong for Madeleine's sake.
Bloody good post that, well put Mirage. thanks
Aww Shucks Thankin'  ya kindly. airkiss

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Cristobell on 08.11.13 17:04

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
Yes, I did see the interview Tony, in fact I took it to twitter and my memory is fine thank you.

As you know, all statements are open to interpretation, and you have interpreted what she said to suit your theory.  Her reply was generic - how many fake suspects have there been over the years?
With the greatest of respect - and trying to keep this on-topic - I haven't 'interpreted what [Wendy Murphy] said to suit my theory'.

Wendy Murphy was as clear as a bell in asserting, for the brief reasons she was able to give in the Fox News interview, that the CrimeWatch hysteria was about a 'fake sighting' (her actual words, not mine).

Let's put it another way.

If Wendy Murphy had seen the Crimewatch programme (which she might well have done for all we know), would she now be saying:

"Gee! I was so, so wrong about this being all about a fake suspect. Wow! That Smith sighting and those two efits of two different blokes from a family who never saw his face have utterly convinced me. How could I have been so wrong?"

That's one of the reasons LancedeBoil's thread is interesting. So far it's thrown up no proof whatsoever that Martin Smith ever had a bar bill/receipt for drinks at 9.55pm as has been claimed, indeed it hasn't substantiated that the Smiths were there at all - and the manager on duty that night can't remember a family of 9 including 5 children.
If we venture into semantics Tony, her message was that the entire Crimewatch programme was smoke and mirrors.  She did not specifically point her finger at the Smith family sighting, the point she was making loud and clear, and you seem to have missed, was, 'why aren't they dragging the parents back in for questioning'.  She was speaking on behalf of those of us who are astounded that Scotland Yard appear to be looking anywhere other than at the parents.  

Wendy Murphy was not aware of the content of the Crimewatch programme when she spoke on Fox News.  It was a well guarded secret and was publicised as containing new and startling information, there was much publicity leading up to the night it was broadcast.  They were telling us, and the press, that the revelations would come when the programme was aired, as indeed was the case.  

In her powerful comments about the case, she was sweeping aside the entire circus that surrounds this case and asking WHY Scotland Yard weren't looking at the parents and why they made their announcement during the ongoing libel trial in Lisbon.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by aquila on 08.11.13 17:09

Can someone tell me now that the case is open in Portugal and Scotland Yard have some sort of active investigation why Scotland Yard have not told the McCanns to change their website and insist that all information goes straight to Scotland Yard?

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Cristobell on 08.11.13 17:10

Mouse, I saw your post, and apologies can't find it again.  You did indeed bring us that terrific video of Wendy Murphy - your very first post I believe!  :) x

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Daisy on 08.11.13 17:13

@Mirage wrote:
@Daisy wrote:Bloody good post that, well put Mirage. thanks
Aww Shucks Thankin'  ya kindly. airkiss
You're welcome, credit where it's due. You echoed my thoughts & articulated them very well.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Guest on 08.11.13 17:33

@aquila wrote:Can someone tell me now that the case is open in Portugal and Scotland Yard have some sort of active investigation why Scotland Yard have not told the McCanns to change their website and insist that all information goes straight to Scotland Yard?
***
To allow them to continue to make their own mistakes ...?

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by PeterMac on 08.11.13 18:56

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:They, the McCanns, have never, ever, PRODUCED a minutest piece of 'evidence' that an 'abduction' occurred.
They have.
Up until now, we have had their word PLUS Tannerman.
Redwood has found Tannerman - it was crecheman.
The abduction evidence is now their word PLUS Smithman.
It is as simple as that.
I hopes that clears it up.
Quite so. Neatly sums up the entire case.
And if Smithman turns out to be another loving father holding his little daughter in the approved manner . . . ?
Or Smithman turns out to have been a trick of the light, and succession of shadows thrown by a passing weather balloon reflecting the light off Venus (Men in Black 1 !) . . .
The evidence for abduction remains exactly the same.
The McCanns - and ONLY the McCanns - say so.

Not even Mrs Matorell from Carter-Ruck said so.

No one else has ever provided a shred of evidence to say so.

But Gerry McCann says she was abducted. And surely he is an honourable man

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by aquila on 08.11.13 19:05

Châtelaine wrote:
@aquila wrote:Can someone tell me now that the case is open in Portugal and Scotland Yard have some sort of active investigation why Scotland Yard have not told the McCanns to change their website and insist that all information goes straight to Scotland Yard?
***
To allow them to continue to make their own mistakes ...?
I'd love to believe that but I don't think it's the case. I live in hope.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by galena on 08.11.13 19:33

@Joss wrote:I am wondering what the link is between Smith & Murat as to how well they really knew each other and in what capacity? My guess is they knew each other very well If Martin was willing to stick his neck out for Murat to give him an alibi? And then how could Martin be so certain who they saw if it was such a vague description of the man they supposedly saw to know it was not Murat? But if it was only to cover for Murat that they saw some mystery man carrying a small child, and they fabricated that man to get Murat off the hook? Dunno.
Murat seems to have been a bit of a fixer the guy who could get stuff done.  Maybe Smith owed him a  favour and this was his chance to repay it?  Just a thought ...

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Guest on 08.11.13 19:36

@aquila wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@aquila wrote:Can someone tell me now that the case is open in Portugal and Scotland Yard have some sort of active investigation why Scotland Yard have not told the McCanns to change their website and insist that all information goes straight to Scotland Yard?
***
To allow them to continue to make their own mistakes ...?
I'd love to believe that but I don't think it's the case. I live in hope.
Frustrating isn't it. People have already had far more liberty than they deserve.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by aquila on 08.11.13 19:40

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@aquila wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
@aquila wrote:Can someone tell me now that the case is open in Portugal and Scotland Yard have some sort of active investigation why Scotland Yard have not told the McCanns to change their website and insist that all information goes straight to Scotland Yard?
***
To allow them to continue to make their own mistakes ...?
I'd love to believe that but I don't think it's the case. I live in hope.
Frustrating isn't it. People have already had far more liberty than they deserve.
That rather depends on what people you are speaking of, what your definition of liberty is and what said 'liberty' is 'deserved'.

Perhaps you could enlighten the forum.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Guest on 08.11.13 19:46

@aquila wrote:That rather depends on what people you are speaking of, what your definition of liberty is and what said 'liberty' is 'deserved'.

Perhaps you could enlighten the forum.
Er... I might have a fireproof suit but I haven't got a hotline to a team of legal rottweilers.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by aquila on 08.11.13 19:48

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@aquila wrote:That rather depends on what people you are speaking of, what your definition of liberty is and what said 'liberty' is 'deserved'.

Perhaps you could enlighten the forum.
Er... I might have a fireproof suit but I haven't got a hotline to a team of legal rottweilers.
What a shame. Still, you're not only fireproof you have the comfort of knowing that unlike Kate you can go for a jog and not be hounded by wild dogs. big grin

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Guest on 08.11.13 19:54

@aquila wrote:What a shame. Still, you're not only fireproof you have the comfort of knowing that unlike Kate you can go for a jog and not be hounded by wild dogs. big grin
Yes, I've read about that incident. Very perceptive creatures, dogs are.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by aquila on 08.11.13 19:58

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@aquila wrote:What a shame. Still, you're not only fireproof you have the comfort of knowing that unlike Kate you can go for a jog and not be hounded by wild dogs. big grin
Yes, I've read about that incident. Very perceptive creatures, dogs are.
ooh please tell the forum what you think about cadaver dogs.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Pershing36 on 08.11.13 19:59

@galena wrote:
@Joss wrote:I am wondering what the link is between Smith & Murat as to how well they really knew each other and in what capacity? My guess is they knew each other very well If Martin was willing to stick his neck out for Murat to give him an alibi? And then how could Martin be so certain who they saw if it was such a vague description of the man they supposedly saw to know it was not Murat? But if it was only to cover for Murat that they saw some mystery man carrying a small child, and they fabricated that man to get Murat off the hook? Dunno.
Murat seems to have been a bit of a fixer the guy who could get stuff done.  Maybe Smith owed him a  favour and this was his chance to repay it?  Just a thought ...
I always felt that Murat was thought of a kind of fixer guy, maybe a romancer who said innocently he could 'fix' things.  He went in to help with his bi-lingual skills but was quickly sussed out as not the connected man he portrayed himself as.  Once his weakness was exposed he was made the Patsy in the case.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by Guest on 08.11.13 20:08

@aquila wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@aquila wrote:What a shame. Still, you're not only fireproof you have the comfort of knowing that unlike Kate you can go for a jog and not be hounded by wild dogs. big grin
Yes, I've read about that incident. Very perceptive creatures, dogs are.
ooh please tell the forum what you think about cadaver dogs.
I think probably the same as most posters on this forum, that the complete dismissal of the dog's finding in this case as somehow neither here nor there is probably the most bewildering aspect of the whole thing.

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Re: The TIME of the alleged Smith Sighting & the Till Receipts that don't Tally?

Post by aquila on 08.11.13 20:16

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@aquila wrote:
Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@aquila wrote:What a shame. Still, you're not only fireproof you have the comfort of knowing that unlike Kate you can go for a jog and not be hounded by wild dogs. big grin
Yes, I've read about that incident. Very perceptive creatures, dogs are.
ooh please tell the forum what you think about cadaver dogs.
I think probably the same as most posters on this forum, that the complete dismissal of the dog's finding in this case as somehow neither here nor there is probably the most bewildering aspect of the whole thing.
You'll have to excuse me, I'm logging off as I have things I must tend to. I look forward to your posts tomorrow.

aquila

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