Re: The Priests

by jd 17.05.12 16:18

"Father Paul Seddon, the English priest who married the McCanns and baptised Madeleine, was one of a team of people who flew out to support the McCann family. He went twice and occasions acted as their spokesperson to the media. Father Seddon is a member of the clergy at Our Lady of Compassion RC church in Formby near Liverpool. Whilst in Portugal during mid-May, Father Seddon celebrated mass at Nossa Senhora da Luz church with local priest Father Jose Manuel Pacheco. On June 3rd he led an hour-long prayer vigil at the Holy Name RC Church in Fazakerly where he was formerly the Parish priest."

Not sure who was best man but would be interesting to find out. I think the mccanns phoned Seddon on the night Maddie disappeared. they were desperate for priests that night weren't they!
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by jd 17.05.12 16:21

Witness statement of Paul Seddon(McCann Priest) 2008/04/16

"The first time I heard of Madeleines disappearance was in the early morning of Friday 4th May 2007.
I received a phone call from Linda who told me what had happened, and I immediately sent a text message to Kates mobile, telling her that my prayers were with them. I received a reply almost immediately and I remember Kate wrote that she felt as if the world was about to fall apart.
At about 1.30 that morning Kate called me in a state of great agitation. I tried to calm her as well as I could saying that Madeleine could have had a bout of sleepwalking and that she would be all right. I remember that Kate was worried by the fact that Madeleine was wearing short sleeved pyjamas and that she could catch a cold. I felt that only a mother could think like that and say such a thing. I could perceive the trauma that Kate was experiencing from her voice. I led with prayers and other situations in my role as priest.
Gerry phoned me on the same night and he also seemed to me to be quite traumatised and at the same time very upset and angry. His Scottish accent, which was normally very slight, became so heavy that his sentences were almost incomprehensible. I spoke to them again the following morning and their state was practically the same."

by Hummingbird 17.05.12 16:27

jd wrote:"Father Paul Seddon, the English priest who married the McCanns and baptised Madeleine, was one of a team of people who flew out to support the McCann family. He went twice and occasions acted as their spokesperson to the media. Father Seddon is a member of the clergy at Our Lady of Compassion RC church in Formby near Liverpool. Whilst in Portugal during mid-May, Father Seddon celebrated mass at Nossa Senhora da Luz church with local priest Father Jose Manuel Pacheco. On June 3rd he led an hour-long prayer vigil at the Holy Name RC Church in Fazakerly where he was formerly the Parish priest."

Not sure who was best man but would be interesting to find out. I think the mccanns phoned Seddon on the night Maddie disappeared. they were desperate for priests that night weren't they!
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Just went through the (very long) list of Priests the McCanns call friends - just how many Priests can one know? This is incredible and makes me feel further that there is a religious connection.

Is anyone here a Catholic? What are the Catholic beliefs about IVF? What are the Catholic beliefs about affairs during marriage? What are the Catholic beliefs about a child that you bring up as your own but is not your true blood and what are the beliefs surrounding a sick child? Just interested not in anyway having a stab at any religion here in any way shape or form.

by Guest 17.05.12 16:32

Hope you don't mind I have split this thread as it is a discussion about the Priests and the Catholic religion.

by Guest 17.05.12 16:35

jd wrote:Witness statement of Paul Seddon(McCann Priest) 2008/04/16

"The first time I heard of Madeleines disappearance was in the early morning of Friday 4th May 2007.
I received a phone call from Linda who told me what had happened, and I immediately sent a text message to Kates mobile, telling her that my prayers were with them. I received a reply almost immediately and I remember Kate wrote that she felt as if the world was about to fall apart.
At about 1.30 that morning Kate called me in a state of great agitation. I tried to calm her as well as I could saying that Madeleine could have had a bout of sleepwalking and that she would be all right. I remember that Kate was worried by the fact that Madeleine was wearing short sleeved pyjamas and that she could catch a cold. I felt that only a mother could think like that and say such a thing. I could perceive the trauma that Kate was experiencing from her voice. I led with prayers and other situations in my role as priest.
Gerry phoned me on the same night and he also seemed to me to be quite traumatised and at the same time very upset and angry. His Scottish accent, which was normally very slight, became so heavy that his sentences were almost incomprehensible. I spoke to them again the following morning and their state was practically the same."

It does seem strange to phone a priest, at that time of the morning when Madeleine had only been missing a couple of hours. Also GM asking for directions to the church at 4.00 am that morning?

by jd 17.05.12 16:38

The priest that is most interesting is Father David Heal (together with multi millionaire John Geraghty). He visited kate for 3 hours which I believe was between 4am and 7am, seems to be behind the church keys being given to the mccanns. Russell O'Brien has Father David Heal's mobile number on his phone, which according to O'Brien he was given it on the morning of the 4th. Nothing is said about Father David Heal, together with John Geraghty, they are very quietly not mentioned despite the fact they have really done a lot in helping the mccanns via the church. Nobody mentions them...now why would this be?

More info about Father David Heal here...Interesting article
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I believe the Luz Key reference 5-2-3-1 is to do with the church keys

by jd 17.05.12 17:04

And some more random info which is tied into the priests . John Geraghty was a member of the church in PDL, he was listed in the top 4th of the wealthiest millionaires backing the mccanns, coincidentally came and worked from next to Rothley in the UK. Within 2 days is getting the church to hand over the keys (something a church never normally does). Stores their hire car with the DNA. Remember the mccanns knew nobody in PDL prior to the holiday they say

The Hubbards coincidentally fly in on May 6th. (think they booked in at the OC on May5th or 6th). Father Hubbard originates from Norwich, even though he was stationed in Canada (deflection from the Norwich link). Susan Hubbard and kate mccann are to this day extraordinary close friends and seemed joined at the hip

Norwich links, the previous priest who left the church at this time also came from Norwich and next to where Murat came from. Murat was up the road from tanner/Obrien a week before the holiday in Exeter...another coincidence? Why does Obrien get Father David Heals mobile number the very next morning?

by pauline 17.05.12 17:20

I had never realised both Mccanns phoned a UK priest at a time when he would have been in bed (1.30 am). i thought they had only asked for and got a local priest.

The Uk priest then comes out to Portugal to support them.

Now he is not their exclusive priest - he is the priest for the Catholics in the area they live in, any of whom could have a serious situation while he is away and needing his support, like the need to administer the last rites. Or he could have been booked for a wedding or a christening and those parishioners wanted him because he knows them rather than a temporary priest.

This shows again their me me me attitude. I would not dream of ringing the priest who married me in the middle of the night and more or less insisting on him coming out as they almost certainly did. And who paid for his airfare and accommodation?

by Mariita 17.05.12 17:31

Hummingbird wrote:
jd wrote:"Father Paul Seddon, the English priest who married the McCanns and baptised Madeleine, was one of a team of people who flew out to support the McCann family. He went twice and occasions acted as their spokesperson to the media. Father Seddon is a member of the clergy at Our Lady of Compassion RC church in Formby near Liverpool. Whilst in Portugal during mid-May, Father Seddon celebrated mass at Nossa Senhora da Luz church with local priest Father Jose Manuel Pacheco. On June 3rd he led an hour-long prayer vigil at the Holy Name RC Church in Fazakerly where he was formerly the Parish priest."

Not sure who was best man but would be interesting to find out. I think the mccanns phoned Seddon on the night Maddie disappeared. they were desperate for priests that night weren't they!
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Just went through the (very long) list of Priests the McCanns call friends - just how many Priests can one know? This is incredible and makes me feel further that there is a religious connection.

Is anyone here a Catholic? What are the Catholic beliefs about IVF? What are the Catholic beliefs about affairs during marriage? What are the Catholic beliefs about a child that you bring up as your own but is not your true blood and what are the beliefs surrounding a sick child? Just interested not in anyway having a stab at any religion here in any way shape or form.

I grew up with parents who were Catholics (yes I was too, but left the Catholic church at the age of 25.) This does not make me an expert in any way, but I dare say that catholics don´t have any other beliefs about affairs during marriage, than any other christian church has. Bringing up a child that´s not your own isn´t something forbidden or strange either, I know two families who adopted children. I don´t think sick children are somehow unwanted either. Regarding sickness I know of another church, a parish or rather movement in the US, which believe sickness is a sign that your faith is to weak. Off the topic, but I´ve never heard someone in the catholic church say that. When it comes to IVF, there are different voices. The official from the pope is maybe not so positive, but then again I´ve spoken to several catholics who went through IVFtreatments. My twins are also conceived via IVF, and I´ve never heard my mother questioning that choice (well maybe I´m not a good example, being kind of the black sheep in the family[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I never married the father of the children either, and THAT is no good according to catholics)but any way some thoughts. However they do have some rituals I find a bit odd, but as I see it there is nothing really that could explain the McCann´s behaviour with formal catholic rules. The church as an institution is one thing, the members of it is something else. Many people are probably members because they are born into it, no guarantees for being perfect or not making own rules to suit their purposes. Even good people are people

by jd 17.05.12 18:09

With regards to IVF Mariita, we have to question why the mccanns never wanted to release any medical records to the police, dental records, claimed she shared the same toothbrush as the twins, wore the same clothes and sandals as the twins, washed their clothes straight away after 5th May, washed cuddle cat, no DNA in the apartment, none taken from maddies clothes and the police were given a towel which by the mccanns track record probably dried the twins too as they seemed to share everything hygienic, DNA had to be fetch from the UK...and most importantly No Body!

It is more than clear there was something about Maddie they are hiding something that cannot be discovered (which I have a very good idea what it is that I am researching)....Judging from the way they have withheld absolutely everything about Maddie from the investigation to a point its like she never existed (which of course she did), it is reasonable to come to the conclusion that the only way to not have a body is to create an abduction scenario

by nomendelta 17.05.12 18:18

I lived in a small town in Spain for 10 years so have seen real decout Catholic behaviour at first hand.

Children are adored no matter what. There were a few Downs Syndrome children all universally adored. My niece was pregnant at 20, out of wedlock and rather than being any shame involved the fact a new child was coming was celebrated.

One of the richest men in town - rumoured to be a multi-millionaire - had a daughter in a permanent vegetative state and between he and hsi wife (both around 60 years of age) they attend to this poor child day in, day out no matter their own infirmities (he suffers particularly from a bad back). Although he could easily afford to have her cared for 24/7 he and his wife choose to do it themselves no matter how it impacts their lives - no holidays, no days off etc.

It is seen as something of a penance. Apparently his father was into the "dark arts" and some see this child as karma. Similarly one particularly brutal guy who delighted in cutting the hands off thieves back in the Franco days had a granddaughter born without a hand and the townsfolk felt that was karma. Spooky place actually!

by Hummingbird 17.05.12 18:22

jd wrote:The priest that is most interesting is Father David Heal (together with multi millionaire John Geraghty). He visited kate for 3 hours which I believe was between 4am and 7am, seems to be behind the church keys being given to the mccanns. Russell O'Brien has Father David Heal's mobile number on his phone, which according to O'Brien he was given it on the morning of the 4th. Nothing is said about Father David Heal, together with John Geraghty, they are very quietly not mentioned despite the fact they have really done a lot in helping the mccanns via the church. Nobody mentions them...now why would this be?

More info about Father David Heal here...Interesting article
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I believe the Luz Key reference 5-2-3-1 is to do with the church keys

Thanks so much for this article it is amazing I have just read it through very quickly, there are so many names to take in but one things for sure, I wish I hadn't started up this Catholic thread LOL my head hurts so much now with new info. I never ever knew there were so many priests involved and especially I never knew one of them was the man who took their hire car in and is now their 'best friend' . Is this the same family she is said to privately visit when she goes back to Portugal? I have to say I am gobsmacked by all this Priest activity it seems completely odd. Also very interesting that one of them was an old golfing buddy of GMs!!! I am going to re read this when I have more time and can make notes as to who is who.
Thanks again, all these new sites I never knew existed!! Thought I was pretty much up to speed on the Mccanns but it would seem I am way back 5 years ago hahaha Perhaps that is a good thing!???? sarcastic

Also jd, you have just posted whilst I was writing this and I have updated this before I post. I get where you are coming from I was only sitting today in the car whist picking up my son from school thinking (I think) along the same lines as you, DNA is a big question here? I have always thought the lack of medical records, birth certs and making her a ward of court highly suspicious - there is def. something the McCanns are hiding about Madeleine and her birth details.

I cannot subscribe to ALL these people being 'in on' this I think they and perhaps one other person knows the truth, the rest were just bought in to make them look as if they are surrounded by people who belief and support them and the wealthier and more religious the better!!

by friedtomatoes 17.05.12 18:25

jd what is this 5321? And btw the PJ did get her dental records.

by Hummingbird 17.05.12 18:27

friedtomatoes wrote:jd what is this 5321? And btw the PJ did get her dental records.

Yes but surely dental records are only any good if you find a body, they are not DNA proof are they?

by pauline 17.05.12 18:39

friedtomatoes wrote:jd what is this 5321? And btw the PJ did get her dental records.

How come they got her dental records and not her medical records? As someone said the dental records are only useful if there is a body. but the medical records could have proved/or not the belief of many that madeleine had something wrong with her (maybe relating to being an IVF child) and would have a shortened life expectency.

by jd 17.05.12 18:53

I'm in a rush to go out and running late...But I never knew they gave dental records, this is news to me...any links please?

5231 is from Paulo Cristovão's book: A Estrela de Madeleine
"I don’t usually bet on Euromillions, my friend, but if I ever did, there would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses, to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right. As a matter of fact, I would even call it the Luz key. Those would be the 5, the 2, the 3 and the 1!"

Amaral also says the priests know the truth of what really happened that night. And also I think he said, that if only the church walls could talk. Remember the PJ know a lot more of the facts than they have released

Hummingbird "they are surrounded by people who belief and support them and the wealthier and more religious the better!!" This is my cryptic clue on the lines of Paulo Cristovão smilie

And where is the best place to confess but not having to take the consequences of it...church? This is where they release their guilt. Why did the Vatican whoosh all references to the mccanns on their website? This is far worse than a physic having vision she is dead imo. They know the truth which goes against the catholic religion

by Mariita 17.05.12 19:11

jd wrote:With regards to IVF Mariita, we have to question why the mccanns never wanted to release any medical records to the police, dental records, claimed she shared the same toothbrush as the twins, wore the same clothes and sandals as the twins, washed their clothes straight away after 5th May, washed cuddle cat, no DNA in the apartment, none taken from maddies clothes and the police were given a towel which by the mccanns track record probably dried the twins too as they seemed to share everything hygienic, DNA had to be fetch from the UK...and most importantly No Body!

It is more than clear there was something about Maddie they are hiding something that cannot be discovered (which I have a very good idea what it is that I am researching)....Judging from the way they have withheld absolutely everything about Maddie from the investigation to a point its like she never existed (which of course she did), it is reasonable to come to the conclusion that the only way to not have a body is to create an abduction scenario

I`m not sure I understand why specifically the IVF records should be of interest, unless there is any doubt that the eggs or sperms (or both) were from Kate and Gerry. The discussion about donors...but that´s not what you meant I guess. The medical records regarding her birth and all medical issues after that would of course be of interest, if she suffered from some kind of disorder,- it would probably be found there.

My previous answer was more a personal thought due to the question whether catholics have a special opinion about IVF.

@pauline Shorter life expectancy with IVF? Now that´s a new one. Most IVFproblems are not connected to the IVF itself, but to the multiple births which very often result in premature children, meaning higher risks. Prematurity is linked to some conditions and disorders, but it´s not only IVFbabies who are born premature, the others have the same problems. The method ICSI (when the sperm is injected into the egg) has shown some defects in the babies, a slight increase compared with others. With normal IVF there is no difference from when it happens in the tuba, the strongest and quickest sperm penetrates the egg, nothing manipulated from outside-it just happens in a test tube (or small bowl actually) instead of inside a body, in the tuba.

by Smokeandmirrors 17.05.12 20:21

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This website, and no doubt others out there, discuss the Catholic view of IVF. In short, the term "gravely evil" is applied to IVF. So a truly devout Catholic would know it is morally forbidden. Hope this helps.

by Mariita 17.05.12 21:22

Smokeandmirrors wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This website, and no doubt others out there, discuss the Catholic view of IVF. In short, the term "gravely evil" is applied to IVF. So a truly devout Catholic would know it is morally forbidden. Hope this helps.

Yes, I also did some checking and found similar hard expressions about IVF, well I guess it has to do a lot with left-over embryos as they are considered as unborn children, and disposing them is equal to abortion according to the catholic view. Contraceptives are not popular either. So in that case, regarding going against the church´s view, I don´t think the McCann´s are in minority. I´m curious to what led them to IVF in the first place, maybe I can find the answer in Kate´s book.

by FH 17.05.12 23:53

Hummingbird wrote:
friedtomatoes wrote:jd what is this 5321? And btw the PJ did get her dental records.

Yes but surely dental records are only any good if you find a body, they are not DNA proof are they?

As has been posted elsewhere on this forum, dental records are used by police to identify bodies. The records are generally which teeth are filled/missing/removed, or X-rays of the jaw. At 3 it is unlikely she would have had fillings, extractions or X-rays and even if she did there would not be much use for them unless they had a body to compare with.

by Liz Eagles 18.05.12 0:21

If my understanding is correct, Madeleine was made a ward of court pretty sharpish and her medical records could have been applied for without her parents' permission. Perhaps the Portuguese police did apply for her records, perhaps they have them/were denied access by UK authorities.

As for Madeleine and her sibling twins being born through IVF I'd think there would be another bank of reference for DNA available. Once again, who knows if this has been explored and undisclosed.

by jd 18.05.12 0:58

Yes but surely dental records are only any good if you find a body

Exactly...and why an abduction will never produce a body

by jd 18.05.12 1:08

aquila wrote:If my understanding is correct, Madeleine was made a ward of court pretty sharpish and her medical records could have been applied for without her parents' permission. Perhaps the Portuguese police did apply for her records, perhaps they have them/were denied access by UK authorities.

As for Madeleine and her sibling twins being born through IVF I'd think there would be another bank of reference for DNA available. Once again, who knows if this has been explored and undisclosed.

Its possible there might have been a bit more than just IVF going on

Yes Maddie was made ward of court very sharpish. But I don't know the ins and outs of whether her medical records could be made available without the parents permission. Though it wasn't just the parents permission the PJ needed

by bobbin 18.05.12 12:50

jd wrote:
aquila wrote:If my understanding is correct, Madeleine was made a ward of court pretty sharpish and her medical records could have been applied for without her parents' permission. Perhaps the Portuguese police did apply for her records, perhaps they have them/were denied access by UK authorities.

As for Madeleine and her sibling twins being born through IVF I'd think there would be another bank of reference for DNA available. Once again, who knows if this has been explored and undisclosed.

Its possible there might have been a bit more than just IVF going on

Yes Maddie was made ward of court very sharpish. But I don't know the ins and outs of whether her medical records could be made available without the parents permission. Though it wasn't just the parents permission the PJ needed

I'm not sure what you might have in mind here, but in not finding any identifiably 'Madeleine' DNA, I had wondered if 'cloning' would yield DNA identical to Kate's. Just trying any and every avenue of thought to try to answer the peculiar discrepancies in the 'forensic reports' which seem so confusing. Does a clone carry just the mother's DNA, does anyone know.

by friedtomatoes 18.05.12 14:28

Thanks jd for the mystery number info.
Dental records received info is on page 4393, they were part the rogatory letter requests early 2008?Pauline medical records were not requested along with the dental records. I know Mr Amaral says in his book they were earlier on but can't find any ref in the files. Hummingbird I just mentioned that they were received, wasnt saying they are useful for dna profiles. Medical records wouldnt contain a dna profile anyway. Im not sure why the dna is being disputed. The profile was compiled from the pillowcase sample and the other childrens profiles were different. Further corroboration was provided by the spot of blood supplied, the heel prick test sample, and this matched the pillow sample and was different again from the other childrens dna.
Re clones, yes the dna is identical and we know the dna sample provided was not and also of a natural child of the mccanns (and not the other children).

by Guest 18.05.12 14:37

friedtomatoes, have you got a link for this, i.e. the heel prick sample........ I have never read it before...

Further corroboration was provided by the spot of blood supplied, the heel prick test sample, and this matched the pillow sample and was different again from the other childrens dna

by friedtomatoes 18.05.12 14:47

candyfloss wrote:friedtomatoes, have you got a link for this, i.e. the heel prick sample........ I have never read it before...

Further corroboration was provided by the spot of blood supplied, the heel prick test sample, and this matched the pillow sample and was different again from the other childrens dna

Sorry CF I dont, its generally assumed that was the source because the blood was on a card, cant think what else it could be.

eta what confuses me is the blood was delivered to fss in october but their report was done in september, i must be missing something, so will have to go read it all again.

by Guest 18.05.12 14:54

friedtomatoes wrote:
candyfloss wrote:friedtomatoes, have you got a link for this, i.e. the heel prick sample........ I have never read it before...

Further corroboration was provided by the spot of blood supplied, the heel prick test sample, and this matched the pillow sample and was different again from the other childrens dna

Sorry CF I dont, its generally assumed that was the source because the blood was on a card, cant think what else it could be.

Yes, I thought it was not fact, as I have never seen this in the files. It is incorrect to make assumptions and write them as facts. I don't think they had a sample of blood, hence the pillowcase.

by Guest 18.05.12 14:58

I think the blood tested was from samples on the walls, and underneath the floor tile. Not actually a sample of Madeleines blood.

by friedtomatoes 18.05.12 15:14

OK CF I shouldnt have made it appear as fact the heel prick test sample was used but they did have a blood sample.

See about 3/4 of the way down

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Two seperate mentions.

On 12 October 2007, the Forensic Science Service(R) received a blood spot in a cardboard frame (object JRB/1) from Leicestershire Constabulary. That object was inside a sealed package.

Reference sample of blood
JRB/1 Madeleine Mccann
From this sample was obtained a DNA reference sample that was different from those of her immediate family, described above. This DNA profile was the same as that obtained from possible spots of saliva existing on the pillowcase (SJM/1).

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