Re: 'Maddie cops to quiz British paedo in prison in Malta', MIRROR, 3 Dec 2014 - on and on it goes

by ultimaThule 03.12.14 23:40

sharonl wrote:
j.rob wrote:This is what makes me think that someone was supposed to jemmy the shutters. But didn't. Something or someone landed TM in it right at the last minute. The family back home already knew prior to the 9.15pm - 10pm kick off (depending on which version of events you read) that the plan was for the shutters to be jemmied (I reckon at around 9.15pm).
IMO

I don't know if there is any significance in this but on the Monday, weren't the handymen around at 5a to repair the washing machine and the shutters in the other bedroom that had been broken by Gerry? I am sure that Kate mentions this in her book.

You may be right, maybe the shutters were meant to be jemmied, but was there an earlier plan that went wrong?

From p.57 of Exhibit KH1 "Gerry had also managed to break the window shutter mehanism in our bedroom shortly after we'd arrived, in spite of a sign asking guests to be gentle with it. What can I say? It's the Gerry touch...".

Would "the Gerry touch" have anything to do with his remarkably shortlived tenure at the Spire hospital and the fact that he no longer works at the interface of doctor/patient relations?

I seem to recall that Matthew Oldfield also had an unfortunate early encounter with the shutters in his apartment and it would appear to be fortuitous that neither of these apparently cackhanded doctors became surgeons. < sigh of relief emoticon >

by plebgate 04.12.14 9:09

Brian Griffin wrote:
j.rob wrote:
This is what makes me think that someone was supposed to jemmy the shutters. But didn't. Something or someone landed TM in it right at the last minute. The family back home already knew prior to the 9.15pm - 10pm kick off (depending on which version of events you read) that the plan was for the shutters to be jemmied (I reckon at around 9.15pm).
I agree about the shutters. There is a level of rank stupidity in announcing to the world your shutters have been 'done' when they are perfectly intact, unbecoming of the level of intelligence you'd expect from highly educated professionals. Are these the kind with high intelligence and no common sense?

To give the appearance of jemmied shutters, I suppose someone would have had to go outside and jemmy the shutters...
"Hi Gerry. What are you doing up there?"
Bang! Crash!
"F*ck off! I'm jemmying the shutters"

In my opinion.

IMO being highly educated and having high intelligence is not necessarily the same thing. (red highlighting)

LOL (blue highlighting)

by Brian Griffin 04.12.14 9:43

Oh, for sure! Look at the Royals. I'm not anti-Royals but some of them come across as being a bit fick, like that posh trash on that awful new 'Toff' show.

I'd just like to think that our doctors had superior brains and were more able to think through the consequences and threads of a convincing story and come up with something less full of obvious holes! Unless, of course, none of it is their doing, in which case it would be a cruel coincidence.

In my opinion.

by Brian Griffin 04.12.14 9:47

ultimaThule wrote:From p.57 of Exhibit KH1 "Gerry had also managed to break the window shutter mehanism in our bedroom shortly after we'd arrived, in spite of a sign asking guests to be gentle with it. What can I say? It's the Gerry touch...".

What was Gerry again? A heart specialist? big grin

In my opinion.

by **PeterMac** 04.12.14 10:05

stillsloppingout wrote:
plebgate wrote:Having read PeterM's last post surely at least one of the people contacted and told about the jemmied shutters must now wonder why that statement was changed?
Because people would rather accept a lie than face an uncomfortable truth, especially as there catalogue of alleged charges namely, concealment, disposing of their own child, fraud, lying to the world inc the pope ., etc etc . Would not look good by association , of friends and kin especially at society dinners !!.
' Oh look George, its them who knew the McCann's "
IMO some it will be denial , some it will be my above point , and some it will be because they are equally as bad . but i don't believe for a second there inner sanctum are not fully versed re this case .

The inner circle MUST also know that St Katherine's statement about "the curtains open, while she was certain of having closed them all as she always did.” has been changed to tight closed and whooshing.
They MUST also know that the official weather reports and first hand reliable and fully documented testimony from ex-pats prove that there were no gusts of wind that evening to whoosh doors and slam curtains
They MUST also know that dogs are almost infallible
They MUST know that they are, by their collective silence, Perverting the Course of Justice.

(Possibly !)

by margaret 04.12.14 12:20

noddy100 wrote:Maybe Gerry was supposed to 'jemmie' them and seeing Jez scuppered him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We have the daily mail at weekends because we like the supplements that come with them. It was definitely in that paper days after the abduction that 'Gerry was seen by the shutters' that night, this was hand in hand with mentioning jez Wilkins. That's exactly what made me think something untoward had gone on and led me to the Internet to see if anyone else could see what I could, and I found the mirror forum.

I do believe it was Gerrys job to jemmy them but Jez coming along scuppered that, also IMO not everyone in the tapas group was privy to what was going really on because Gerry never had the chance to tell Kate the shutters weren't jemmied, which begs the question what did she do on her 'check', did she herself have to raise the shutters hence her fingerprints?

Also, I don't think anyone back home knew beforehand, I think they were told 'jemmied' shutters, hence them all saying that very word, if they were making things up it might be more natural to assume the window was smashed too but no one said that just 'jemmied shutters'.

by End 04.12.14 12:57

margaret wrote:
noddy100 wrote:Maybe Gerry was supposed to 'jemmie' them and seeing Jez scuppered him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We have the daily mail at weekends because we like the supplements that come with them. It was definitely in that paper days after the abduction that 'Gerry was seen by the shutters' that night, this was hand in hand with mentioning jez Wilkins. That's exactly what made me think something untoward had gone on and led me to the Internet to see if anyone else could see what I could, and I found the mirror forum.

I do believe it was Gerrys job to jemmy them but Jez coming along scuppered that, also IMO not everyone in the tapas group was privy to what was going really on because Gerry never had the chance to tell Kate the shutters weren't jemmied, which begs the question what did she do on her 'check', did she herself have to raise the shutters hence her fingerprints?

Also, I don't think anyone back home knew beforehand, I think they were told 'jemmied' shutters, hence them all saying that very word, if they were making things up it might be more natural to assume the window was smashed too but no one said that just 'jemmied shutters'.

Is 'jemmied' a word used much in the UK? I had lived in the UK for 10 years prior to this case and I had never heard it before (or since) blushing1

...

by woodforthetrees 04.12.14 13:01

Used in the building and burglary trades mostly

by pennylane 04.12.14 13:28

I would say 'prised open,' 'forced open,' or 'tampered with,' but 'gemmied' is not a word that would come to mind.

I think they put some thought into that word. For me, it conjures up an image of a cat burglar of bygone days.

by Liz Eagles 04.12.14 13:33

pennylane wrote:I would say 'prised open,' 'forced open,' or 'tampered with,' but 'gemmied' is not a word that would come to mind.

I think they put quite a bit of thought into that word. For me, it conjures up an image of a cat burglar of bygone days.

My Mum was Scottish. Jemmied is a word she'd have used for someone prising open a door/shutter etc with a crowbar. A jemmy is a crowbar.

Just to add, a crowbar wouldn't have been needed to open those shutters. Had the same shutters myself. None of it matters though as they weren't 'jemmied' and were intact. Jemmied isn't a word peculiar to Scotland though!

by Realist 04.12.14 13:48

Brian Griffin wrote:
What was Gerry again? A heart specialist?

I don't think he was ever a heart specialist, apparently he worked as part of a cardiology team in the capacity of reading scans without ever actually coming into contact with patients. Had he ever been in the navy, he'd have probably been a morse code operator.

by pennylane 04.12.14 13:52

aquila wrote:
pennylane wrote:I would say 'prised open,' 'forced open,' or 'tampered with,' but 'gemmied' is not a word that would come to mind.

I think they put quite a bit of thought into that word. For me, it conjures up an image of a cat burglar of bygone days.
My Mum was Scottish. Jemmied is a word she'd have used for someone prising open a door/shutter etc with a crowbar. A jemmy is a crowbar.

Just to add, a crowbar wouldn't have been needed to open those shutters. Had the same shutters myself. None of it matters though as they weren't 'jemmied' and were intact. Jemmied isn't a word peculiar to Scotland though!

Ah yes, Scottish, that makes sense! The word's not peculiar to Scotland, but perhaps a tad more commonly used?

Anyway as you say, the window wasn't "gemmied" at all, and the description was yet another in a long list of McCann-driven details, that turned out to be a complete fabrication!

by Liz Eagles 04.12.14 13:58

Realist wrote:
Brian Griffin wrote:
What was Gerry again? A heart specialist?

I don't think he was ever a heart specialist, apparently he worked as part of a cardiology team in the capacity of reading scans without ever actually coming into contact with patients. Had he ever been in the navy, he'd have probably been a morse code operator.

Perhaps we should thank Clarence and the crew at the hospital in Leicester for that spectacular video of Gerald McCann pushing his own trolley, examining a patient and speaking to him.

Can someone post it up?

by Realist 04.12.14 14:20

aquila wrote:
Perhaps we should thank Clarence and the crew at the hospital in Leicester for that spectacular video of Gerald McCann pushing his own trolley, examining a patient and speaking to him.

Can someone post it up?

I tend to remember our Gerald once actually stating that his job rarely involved personal contact with patients. Perhaps this set piece video you refer to was orchestrated by the same people who filmed Jimmy Savile on his hospital jaunts. I don't suppose by process of elimination, the patient he was examining and speaking with happened to be Peter Sutcliffe.

by margaret 04.12.14 14:26

I wouldn't say it's a very common word, more regional I'm sure it's something a Scottish person would say, whereas others would say 'broke in'.

by Liz Eagles 04.12.14 14:31

Realist wrote:
aquila wrote:
Perhaps we should thank Clarence and the crew at the hospital in Leicester for that spectacular video of Gerald McCann pushing his own trolley, examining a patient and speaking to him.

Can someone post it up?

I tend to remember our Gerald once actually stating that his job rarely involved personal contact with patients. Perhaps this set piece video you refer to was orchestrated by the same people who filmed Jimmy Savile on his hospital jaunts. I don't suppose by process of elimination, the patient he was examining and speaking with happened to be Peter Sutcliffe.

Oh goodness me, another eejit on the forum.

by Guest 04.12.14 14:50

aquila wrote:
Realist wrote:
Brian Griffin wrote:
What was Gerry again? A heart specialist?

I don't think he was ever a heart specialist, apparently he worked as part of a cardiology team in the capacity of reading scans without ever actually coming into contact with patients. Had he ever been in the navy, he'd have probably been a morse code operator.
Perhaps we should thank Clarence and the crew at the hospital in Leicester for that spectacular video of Gerald McCann pushing his own trolley, examining a patient and speaking to him.

Can someone post it up?

Two hospital scenes on here at 4.45 and 9.00.

I think you mean the first one where Gerry displays his bedside manner and his patient looks startled at the yanking of the tshirt?

by Liz Eagles 04.12.14 14:58

Dee Coy wrote:
aquila wrote:
Realist wrote:
Brian Griffin wrote:
What was Gerry again? A heart specialist?

I don't think he was ever a heart specialist, apparently he worked as part of a cardiology team in the capacity of reading scans without ever actually coming into contact with patients. Had he ever been in the navy, he'd have probably been a morse code operator.
Perhaps we should thank Clarence and the crew at the hospital in Leicester for that spectacular video of Gerald McCann pushing his own trolley, examining a patient and speaking to him.

Can someone post it up?

Two hospital scenes on here at 4.45 and 9.00.

I think you mean the first one where Gerry displays his bedside manner and his patient looks startled at the yanking of the tshirt?

Thank you, that's the one.

by espeland 04.12.14 15:29

Realist wrote wrote:
I tend to remember our Gerald once actually stating that his job rarely involved personal contact with patients.

An acquaintance of mine was once sent as an inpatient to the Leicester hospital (about 30 miles and in another county from here) and reported that he'd seen Gerry visit another patient in the ward. Unfortunately this friend wasn't interested in the Madeleine matter and didn't provide any further information. As the report was of only one visit, perhaps it's right that Gerry had limited contact with patients.

by j.rob 04.12.14 17:19

ultimaThule wrote:
sharonl wrote:
j.rob wrote:This is what makes me think that someone was supposed to jemmy the shutters. But didn't. Something or someone landed TM in it right at the last minute. The family back home already knew prior to the 9.15pm - 10pm kick off (depending on which version of events you read) that the plan was for the shutters to be jemmied (I reckon at around 9.15pm).
IMO

I don't know if there is any significance in this but on the Monday, weren't the handymen around at 5a to repair the washing machine and the shutters in the other bedroom that had been broken by Gerry? I am sure that Kate mentions this in her book.

You may be right, maybe the shutters were meant to be jemmied, but was there an earlier plan that went wrong?

From p.57 of Exhibit KH1 "Gerry had also managed to break the window shutter mehanism in our bedroom shortly after we'd arrived, in spite of a sign asking guests to be gentle with it. What can I say? It's the Gerry touch...".

Would "the Gerry touch" have anything to do with his remarkably shortlived tenure at the Spire hospital and the fact that he no longer works at the interface of doctor/patient relations?

I seem to recall that Matthew Oldfield also had an unfortunate early encounter with the shutters in his apartment and it would appear to be fortuitous that neither of these apparently cackhanded doctors became surgeons. < sigh of relief emoticon >

I still struggle to understand how there could have been such an obvious mistake unless there had been a last-minute panic. I suspect that the McCanns did not want family at home to know that the plan had been bodged. Did not (at least initially) want them to know that Madeleine had come to some harm that week and therefore just stuck doggedly with an original script.

I am sure that the Jez Wilkins 9pm (ish) encounter, whether or not it actually took place, is crucial to an understanding of what may have de-railed the script. I am still of the opinion that a very uneasy truce was established whereby Jez Wilkins (and probably Bridget O'Donnell) and the Tapas both have dirt they can dish on each other. Jez chopped and changed his witnesses statements. And it is extraordinary that he was, apparently, awoken along with his partner Bridget from a deep slumber at 1am, to be told that 'Gerry had seen him' and wanted to know if he had seen anything as Madeleine 'had been abducted'. His response: 'you are joking' I think relates to the fact that Gerry has just landed him in it as being a vital eye-witness as well as, of course, a potential suspect.

And indeed one of the questions that Detective Amaral faxed to Jez for an urgent response when he returned to the UK was whether Jez knew of any reason why someone would want to kidnap Gerry and Kate's daughter.

I do think that at least some members of the family (brother John who was so breathlessly excited about The Fund within the space of a few days practically, imo) were 'in' on a faked abduction plan. That is how it is looking to me. The failure to ensure that the shutters were jemmied, or broken open or obviously tampered with is suggestive of a last minute panic or someone pulling out.

I don't believe it is as straightforward as Jez simply having been in the way when Gerry was trying to jemmy the shutters. That is too much of a coincidence especially when you consider how much Jez changed his witness statements. Perhaps it was Jez who was supposed to jemmy the shutters but he decided to pull the plug at the last minute?

IMO.

by margaret 04.12.14 21:51

j.rob wrote:[ Jez chopped and changed his witnesses statements. And it is extraordinary that he was, apparently, awoken along with his partner Bridget from a deep slumber at 1am, to be told that 'Gerry had seen him' and wanted to know if he had seen anything as Madeleine 'had been abducted'. His response: 'you are joking' I think relates to the fact that Gerry has just landed him in it as being a vital eye-witness as well as, of course, a potential suspect.

How did Gerry know which apartment to go to?

Was JW's apartment near 5a does anyone know?