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Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

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Who is 'Smith-man'? (MULTIPLE CHOICE - You can vote for more than one answer)

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by dotdot on 18.10.13 18:52

@Searcher wrote:In regard to the church, remember the alleged distress of the Portuguese priest who is reported to have said "I have been deceived", and who changed apparently from a warm, outgoing man, who loved to visit people and the coffee shops, and support his community, to a virtual recluse.  Friends said allegedly he was a changed man.  There must have been a reason.
@notlongnow wrote:
@dotdot wrote:
@notlongnow wrote:For some reason the church keeps cropping up in my mind as a key factor in the case.
me too!  WHY were they given the keys???
Yes it does seem bizarre.
Wonder if a church is/was off limits for a search making it a very safe place?




does anyone know how to find out how well the church was searched?  there are a lot of theories about the whole tapas group being there in PdL for some other purpose than holiday...  something involving a lot of sinister catholic ... masonic.... microchip ....to name a few sort of theories that get tossed around .... whatever it was, something that involved people in very high places in the govt (hence the media backing (even currently!)) .... why they received the backing of the Vatican etc.... you get what i mean,.... perhaps they had friends on the INSIDE who arranged for Madeleine to be hidden in the church. 

it is true Searcher that they say he is a changed man.  http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2631-mccanns-condemned-by-seeing-a-priest?highlight=priest  when asked why he gave them the keys he said it wasnt his decision.  he was obviously instructed by someone with a higher power.

-- on a side note, i think this CW wrong direction/which side of the road dispute w JT and GM  (and being televised the 'abductor' in two completely different directions depending which country it was shown in) is just to reinforce that there were inconsistencies between them, in case they ever have to a do a real sit down reconstruction (that would be fun!!!!!!).  they are learning the weak points in their story as it plays out, and creating obvious confusion around those areas, to support their own defence.  if that makes sense,.



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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by tiny on 18.10.13 18:53

@Portia wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@littlepixie wrote:Why did Brian Kennedy go to see Mr Smith?? The million dollar question. Did he do it for Maddie because he was a "concerned person" or did he do it for Murat, and if he did it for Murat, why would GM be put in the frame?

Why would he do it for Murat?

I can't get my head around it. I could never understand from day one why Brian Kennedy attached himself to this case.

eta. How did Brian Kennedy get to know about the Smith sighting and who told him where Mr Smith lived?
If the smith sighting was in the mccanns hands then that's where he got it from.
Tiny, do you see the importance of what you have just said?

Kennedy would only go 'talk to' the Smiths if he had firm reason to believe they had seen any one of the Tapas party, Kennedy was trying to protect;

Was Kennedy protecting -say- DW or DP; heck no;

The only people he ever admitted wanting to 'help' were and are the McCs;

Kennedy went to see the Smiths because either or both of the MCCs had informed him that the Smiths had seen Button-man and this was a bother to them;

Why else go all the way to Ireland?

How did the McCs know that the Smiths had seen something, had seen Button-man?

Not because anyone told them; this sighting was guarded in the PJ-Amaral files;

They knew, because they had seen the Smiths notice Button-man;

How did they see?

Because one of them saw the Smiths seeing him

Ergo: 
Kennedy's trip to the Smiths proves that the Smiths had seen GM, as witnessed by the fact that he found it necessary to inform Kennedy of that incident

QED!
no I didn't realize,but as I have said , tanner made up bundleman(I don't think tanner was even on that road)   because Mr Smith had seen Gerry and Gerry new he had been seen.

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by notlongnow on 18.10.13 19:19

@Portia wrote:
@tiny wrote:
@littlepixie wrote:Why did Brian Kennedy go to see Mr Smith?? The million dollar question. Did he do it for Maddie because he was a "concerned person" or did he do it for Murat, and if he did it for Murat, why would GM be put in the frame?

Why would he do it for Murat?

I can't get my head around it. I could never understand from day one why Brian Kennedy attached himself to this case.

eta. How did Brian Kennedy get to know about the Smith sighting and who told him where Mr Smith lived?
If the smith sighting was in the mccanns hands then that's where he got it from.
Tiny, do you see the importance of what you have just said?

Kennedy would only go 'talk to' the Smiths if he had firm reason to believe they had seen any one of the Tapas party, Kennedy was trying to protect;

Was Kennedy protecting -say- DW or DP; heck no;

The only people he ever admitted wanting to 'help' were and are the McCs;

Kennedy went to see the Smiths because either or both of the MCCs had informed him that the Smiths had seen Button-man and this was a bother to them;

Why else go all the way to Ireland?

How did the McCs know that the Smiths had seen something, had seen Button-man?

Not because anyone told them; this sighting was guarded in the PJ-Amaral files;

They knew, because they had seen the Smiths notice Button-man;

How did they see?

Because one of them saw the Smiths seeing him

And it wasn't Kate who was seen and reported by the Smiths

Ergo: 
Kennedy's trip to the Smiths proves that the Smiths had seen GM, as witnessed by the fact that the McCs thought fit to have Kennedy go to Ireland to tamper with talk to these independent witnesses

QED! IMO naturally

Wonder how they found out info on the smiths?

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by whmon on 18.10.13 19:36

IMO it would be very easy to 'shut somebody up' if an individual/organisation have lots of money. This is because there a two separate 'laws'. These are: the law of the land, and the law of the damned. The law of the land is what most of us live by - we don't steal or murder etc, and we even follow the laws we don't want to, we pay our taxes etc. The law of the damned is how the criminal element live, i.e the modern day Kray Twins type. It would be easy to shut somebody up by paying the local 'Kray Twins' type to take a vested interest into ensuring that what you want to happen - happens.

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Rufus T on 18.10.13 19:41

@Portia wrote:
Lets assume for a moment they were unaware of the existence of cadaverine

So KHs clothes were left as they were

But either there was no cadaverine on Button-mans clothes, or he got rid of them suspecting the buttons would give him away; not because any awareness of cadaverine
Would a medically trained group be unaware of cadaverine? 
Just wondering.

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Smith man in the e fits and reconstruction

Post by KenzieWenzie on 18.10.13 20:01

I thought in the re con, smith man looked like Gerry mccann but those two e fits  looked nothing like him, hair wasn't dark in them, looked more greyer hair and pinkier skin
 They are supposed to be of the same man but I thought They look like Russell O and Mathew O

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Tony Bennett on 18.10.13 20:04

@littlepixie wrote:Why did Brian Kennedy go to see Mr Smith?? The million dollar question. Did he do it for Maddie because he was a "concerned person" or did he do it for Murat, and if he did it for Murat, why would GM be put in the frame?

How did Brian Kennedy get to know about the Smith sighting and who told him where Mr Smith lived?

I can't get my head around it. I could never understand from day one why Brian Kennedy attached himself to this case...
I think a look at Brian Kenedy's actions tell us a lot. He...

* bought a house in Knutsford from which to run the McCann Team's investigation

* chose Metodo 3 - a highly controversial detective agency with a track record in telephone tapping and money-laundering but not in finding missing children

* personally appointed money-laundering expert Gary Hagland to work for him, to laise with Metodo 3, and plan the McCann's Moroccan campaign (search 'Hagland' on this forum)

* falied to sack Metodo 3 after its boss Francisco Marco infamously boasted of being hot on the heels of 'the kidnappers' and said that 'Maddie will be home by Christmas'

* worked closely with Metodo 3 investigator Antonio Giminez Raso - who spent 4 years in jail on suspicion of helping a 27-strong vicious drugs gang - and Julian Peribanez. who has just admitted the serious criminal offence of illegally taping the conversations of leading Spanish politicians

* according to Mark Hollingsworth in theEvening Standard, intimidated - with the help of the men he employed - material witnesses in the case who were then too frightened to give evidence

* took his in-house lawyer, Freemason and Past Lodge Grandmaster Edward Smethurst, to a secret meeting with Robert Murat and his lawyer at the home of Murat's uncle, on 13 November

* on the same visit to Portugal was present with Antonio Giminez Raso and Francisco Marco of Metodo 3 when they gave 3 'very credible' possible sightings of Madeleine to the PJ in Portugal - none of which led to anything

* appointed Kevin Halligen, a serial con-man, to 'search for Madeleine'

* failed to supervise Halligen's contract, resulting in Halligen netting £500,000 plus expenses from Madeleine's fund (money raised by a generous public), when most of the time he was running up massive hotel bills in the UK, Italy and the U.S. with his girlfriend Shirin Trachiotis

* appointed Dave ('Jane Tanner might have seen a woman') Edgar and long-retired constable and pigeon fancier from over 1,000 feet up on Halkyn Mountain in north Wales, Arthur Cowley, to replace Halligen, and

* got his friend to register the never-used domain name alphaig.co.uk in order to promote the Alphaig deception (search 'Alphaig' on this forum).


Oh, and he contacted Martin Smith...


Does that tell you anything?


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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by tiny on 18.10.13 20:16

where did the efits come from, ( BIG)-> if- it was the pi,s where did they get them from.

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Lance De Boils on 18.10.13 20:37

As promised in my original post, here's the link to the article about the villa:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/103035/Madeleine-The-missed-clues-at-1m-villa

Extracts below:

Suspicions were raised because of the behaviour of the people who rented the £1million villa and because video cameras were reportedly seen there along with pictures of children on a wall, the Sunday Express has learned.
The Sunday Express has been conducting intensive inquiries in the resort town and asked scores of people if they saw anyone acting suspiciously.
One elderly British resident told us both she and a friend, a retired British woman detective, went to Portuguese police about a couple who rented the villa, which has its own swimming pool.
The resident told us: “I used to meet up with the retired detective to walk our dogs down by the seafront. Both of us became concerned about a couple aged about 30 who rented the villa.

“What struck us was that they drove a very tatty, British-registered small red saloon car. It was one those vehicles you would normally see on a gypsy camp, not going in and out of a very expensive villa.

“We only saw them coming and going in the car and not walking about, which is odd given the location of the villa. We both got the impression they were trying to keep a low profile.’’

Another source said that after Maddie disappeared, search teams combed the seafront, where luxury villas stand next to large areas of barren land.

Anglican priest Paul Luckman, owner and publisher of Portugal News, said: “The location and description of that villa mentioned by your source fits the one that a searcher told me about.

“The searcher told me the villa was empty and somehow they got inside some weeks after Madeleine disappeared.

“The search dog handler said the villa had a room with a kind of amateur studio with video equipment and cameras with children’s toys and pictures of children on the wall.

“He felt it was something to do with paedophiles. He told the police and they seemed to know something about it, but we don’t think they took it any further.”

The Sunday Express took him to the villa and he confirmed that it fits the description and location of the one he was told about.

Although we know where it is, we are not naming the villa for legal reasons as we have been unable to locate the owner.

The British woman resident said: “I know the owner was contacted after we raised our concerns with the police.
"The person was angry because she said she did not know the people who rented it and was annoyed about being contacted by detectives.
"We heard nothing more about it. The day after Maddie disappeared the couple moved out and we didn’t see them again.
“There was an older woman in a very expensive car who visited them during their stay.”

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by sami on 18.10.13 20:51

@Rufus T wrote:
@Portia wrote:
Lets assume for a moment they were unaware of the existence of cadaverine

So KHs clothes were left as they were

But either there was no cadaverine on Button-mans clothes, or he got rid of them suspecting the buttons would give him away; not because any awareness of cadaverine
Would a medically trained group be unaware of cadaverine? 
Just wondering.

Questions as regards the McCanns clothes and those taken for testing.  Was each and every single item of clothing taken for testing ?  What did the McCanns do for clean clothes whilst awaiting the return of their belongings ?  What did Gerry wear on the day the clothes were taken away for testing - were those clothes tested ?

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Lance De Boils on 18.10.13 20:54

@sami wrote:
@Rufus T wrote:
@Portia wrote:
Lets assume for a moment they were unaware of the existence of cadaverine

So KHs clothes were left as they were

But either there was no cadaverine on Button-mans clothes, or he got rid of them suspecting the buttons would give him away; not because any awareness of cadaverine
Would a medically trained group be unaware of cadaverine? 
Just wondering.
Questions as regards the McCanns clothes and those taken for testing.  Was each and every single item of clothing taken for testing ?  What did the McCanns do for clean clothes whilst awaiting the return of their belongings ?  What did Gerry wear on the day the clothes were taken away for testing - were those clothes tested ?
Now that is a very good question, Sami.

Also, does anyone recall anywhere in the files that mentions testing of the rest of T9's clothes?

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by PeterMac on 18.10.13 21:01

@Rufus T wrote:Would a medically trained group be unaware of cadaverine? 
Just wondering.
Is anyone in the world not aware of fingerprints, DNA, and the omnipresence of CCTV ?
But they still commit crimes and get caught using those the methods.
People who commit crime, or do stupid things, do not think logically.

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by sami on 18.10.13 21:04

Lance de boils, iirc the McCanns clothes were collected from the villa at the beginning August, so there were no tapas around at that point, or certainly all of their holiday belongings had long gone back to the uk.  I have never read they were tested and given the timeframe I would think it unlikely.  This is just opinion though.

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 18.10.13 21:16

Great Kennedy summary Tony. These people get away unquestioned because so rarely are all their activities ever listed together in one place. When they are, they look well and truly suspicious.

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Rufus T on 18.10.13 21:57

@PeterMac wrote:
@Rufus T wrote:Would a medically trained group be unaware of cadaverine? 
Just wondering.
Is anyone in the world not aware of fingerprints, DNA, and the omnipresence of CCTV ?
But they still commit crimes and get caught using those the methods.
People who commit crime, or do stupid things, do not think logically.
Excellent points as always PeterMac, I understand what you are saying.
It was not a relevant query to the point being made. soz

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Tony Bennett on 18.10.13 21:57

@sami wrote:Lance de boils, iirc the McCanns clothes were collected from the villa at the beginning August, so there were no tapas around at that point, or certainly all of their holiday belongings had long gone back to the uk.  I have never read they were tested...
sami, have a look back at this report from 24 September 2007 in the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483881/Madeleine-Sniffer-dogs-scent-death-McCanns-friends.html

Madeleine: Sniffer dogs scent smell of death on McCann friend's clothes

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by sami on 18.10.13 22:04

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@sami wrote:Lance de boils, iirc the McCanns clothes were collected from the villa at the beginning August, so there were no tapas around at that point, or certainly all of their holiday belongings had long gone back to the uk.  I have never read they were tested...
 sami, have a look back at this report from 24 September 2007 in the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483881/Madeleine-Sniffer-dogs-scent-death-McCanns-friends.html

Madeleine: Sniffer dogs scent smell of death on McCann friend's clothes
Thank you:thumbsupa:

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Lance De Boils on 18.10.13 22:15

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@sami wrote:Lance de boils, iirc the McCanns clothes were collected from the villa at the beginning August, so there were no tapas around at that point, or certainly all of their holiday belongings had long gone back to the uk.  I have never read they were tested...
 sami, have a look back at this report from 24 September 2007 in the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483881/Madeleine-Sniffer-dogs-scent-death-McCanns-friends.html

Madeleine: Sniffer dogs scent smell of death on McCann friend's clothes
Indeed. I don't remember seeing it in the files, do you?

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 22:20

If there is any truth in the D. Mail article, Sept. 2007, alleging that scent of death was found on clothing from one of the Tapas 9, but not saying who - could Smithman be another male  member of the group?

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by sallypelt on 18.10.13 22:23

@Searcher wrote:If there is any truth in the D. Mail article, Sept. 2007, alleging that scent of death was found on clothing from one of the Tapas 9, but not saying who - could Smithman be another male  member of the group?
Searcher, I can remember this at the time. If my memory isn't failing me, then I recall that the dogs detected the smell of death in one of the T7's home, back in England.

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Tony Bennett on 18.10.13 22:25

@Lance De Boils wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@sami wrote:Lance de boils, iirc the McCanns clothes were collected from the villa at the beginning August, so there were no tapas around at that point, or certainly all of their holiday belongings had long gone back to the uk.  I have never read they were tested...
 sami, have a look back at this report from 24 September 2007 in the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483881/Madeleine-Sniffer-dogs-scent-death-McCanns-friends.html

Madeleine: Sniffer dogs scent smell of death on McCann friend's clothes
Indeed. I don't remember seeing it in the files, do you?
Definitely not in the released PJ files, that's true. But could it be amongst the significant amount of unreleased PJ papers?

Martin Grime might know - but I think the Official Secrets Act would not allow him to say...

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Tony Bennett on 18.10.13 22:28

@sallypelt wrote:
@Searcher wrote:If there is any truth in the D. Mail article, Sept. 2007, alleging that scent of death was found on clothing from one of the Tapas 9, but not saying who - could Smithman be another male  member of the group?
Searcher, I can remember this at the time. If my memory isn't failing me, then I recall that the dogs detected the smell of death in one of the T7's home, back in England.
One report about this I read in the Daily Telegraph said the home was in Devon.

I must admit I immediately thought of Jane Tanner's Freudian slip, "I carried her".

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 22:33

Thankyou Sallypelt; I suppose it could be any one of them; not clear.

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by littlepixie on 18.10.13 22:33

@Tony

But in whose interests was Kennedy working?

I always thought it was the McCanns as that is what we were told to believe or they wanted us to believe, but now I'm not so sure.

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Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Post by Searcher on 18.10.13 22:35

TB - most interesting; it brings to mind once again:  "They've taken her."

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