stephen birch

ShuBob wrote:

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I really can't believe that the McCanns would have anything to do with publicising the search for a body, rather than a living child.  

Anyone else but them would be grateful to achieve closure.

I won't be surprised if we get some "live" sightings soon.

Three words- Marcos Aragao Correia.

Just thinking the same thing ShuBob !!!

But what if.....when no body is discovered and if the met investigation is a whitewash - it will make their claim of a possible 'live' madeleine right back in the public domain. The timing would take the heat off the McCann's should they lose the libel trial and make the search for a 'live' Madeleine all the more believable sanctioned and endorsed by the met. IMO

That's two IFs, Graceful.

GRACEFUL1 wrote:But what if.....when no body is discovered and if the met investigation is a whitewash - it will make their claim of a possible 'live' madeleine right back in the public domain. The timing would take the heat off the McCann's should they lose the libel trial and make the search for a 'live' Madeleine all the more believable sanctioned and endorsed by the met. IMO

I'm still not convinced that the SY investigation will be a whitewash, there's just too much information, including the PJ files on the internet for all to see, that the FOI requests would be piling up.  Remember, if the met are going to "frame" someone, they do need evidence to back that up, evidence that we know just does not exist.  And having had such a bad rap recently regarding previous corruption, they have to do everything by the book in this case imo.

As for Birch, I still don't see him being a part of Team McCann...his theory involves the McCanns and the tapas group, specifically Russell O'Brien, but like I said previously, his theory also involves half of Portugal's law enforcement and Govt as well as the UK's, so it's not in the McCann's best interests to have him digging round Portugal and finding bodies, because that means that they were involved.

Although on saying that, I have always said that I wish they would just dig up the driveway to put an end to the speculation, as I feel very sorry for Jenny Murat, who has to live with all of this everyday.

susible wrote:

GRACEFUL1 wrote:But what if.....when no body is discovered and if the met investigation is a whitewash - it will make their claim of a possible 'live' madeleine right back in the public domain. The timing would take the heat off the McCann's should they lose the libel trial and make the search for a 'live' Madeleine all the more believable sanctioned and endorsed by the met. IMO

I'm still not convinced that the SY investigation will be a whitewash, there's just too much information, including the PJ files on the internet for all to see, that the FOI requests would be piling up.  Remember, if the met are going to "frame" someone, they do need evidence to back that up, evidence that we know just does not exist.  And having had such a bad rap recently regarding previous corruption, they have to do everything by the book in this case imo.

As for Birch, I still don't see him being a part of Team McCann...his theory involves the McCanns and the tapas group, specifically Russell O'Brien, but like I said previously, his theory also involves half of Portugal's law enforcement and Govt as well as the UK's, so it's not in the McCann's best interests to have him digging round Portugal and finding bodies, because that means that they were involved.

Although on saying that, I have always said that I wish they would just dig up the driveway to put an end to the speculation, as I feel very sorry for Jenny Murat, who has to live with all of this everyday.

Let us hope my assumption is wrong and that justice will prevail in this case - time will tell as we await justice for Madeleine.

posted as a new topic in error..... should have been posted here.

http://www.rapport.co.za/Wereld/Nuus/Eienaar-stem-in-dat-SA-man-op-sy-erf-kan-grawe-vir-vermiste-kind-se-lyk-20130928


Google translation:


Owner agrees that SA man in his garden digging for missing child 's body
2013-09-28 23:51

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Stephen Birch ( 48 ) | Photo : Nasief Manie

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Jacques Steenkamp

Since Madeleine ( Maddie ) McCann went missing six years ago in Portugal , numerous clues worldwide has been in order to locate her .

Now, 14 months after Stephen Birch ( 48 ) allegedly took her grave , the Cape Town businessman to be the opportunity to solve the mystery .

Birch believes the British girl , who was three years old , is about 130 meters from where she went missing in the coastal town of Praia da Luz , was buried .

The Portuguese newspaper Correio da Manhã the past eight months many times trying to get permission from Robert Murat to see if Maddie buried in his yard as Birch claimed .

Murat was the police 's prime suspect , but no evidence could be found linking him with Maddie 's disappearance . He then began a civil claim of millions of euro against the media passed .

Correio da Manhã Birch inform Murat agreed last week to dig and they negotiate with his lawyer .

Murat would believe a few thousand euros for any damage that may occur .

Report in June last year reported on Birch who claimed he was the property of Murat 's elderly mother in Praia da Luz in the Algarve region illegally enter .

Birch apparently done scans of the ground in the yard . He claims the scans shows an object like a child or an animal is buried in a secluded part of the yard .

Photos owned by Birch showed the police never done excavations in this area at that time .

Birch since he made ​​those allegations , waged a continuous campaign online .

It is aimed at the British and Portuguese authorities , and Maddie 's parents , in the hope that his allegations would be investigated .

The relevant authorities in Europe ignore his representations .

Kate McCann , Maddie 's mother , said at the time on a British TV program sarcastically asked : " Who is Stephen Birch anyway? "

He is not a reliable source , she said.

In response , Birch said : " If it was your child and there is a chance that she was buried there , you could do anything possible to ensure that the statement is false ?
" That is unless you have something to hide and no one near it wants. "

The McCanns said at the time that Maddie disappeared when she left unattended in a holiday apartment while they ate in a nearby restaurant .

The couple are currently embroiled in a civil action in Portugal against the country 's former police chief Gonçalo Amaral .

Amaral in 2008 in a book , The Truth of the Lie , claiming Maddie 's parents had accidentally killed her and buried her body .

Birch believes the civil case led to allow Murat want him to dig .

He is concerned that the excess can be removed , but said he was happy scans , photos and videos from the place where he believes Maddie buried .

He would be right , the Cape Town businessman not only international fame , but also possibly millions of pounds as a reward .


Kate McCann , whose daughter Madeleine missing since a holiday in Portugal in 2007 . | Photo : REUTERS / Chris Helgren

A third party is currently acting as an intermiadiary in the negotiations and will own the media rights to the entire operation. [/]They have advised me that they will put a helicopter in the air above Murats house to protect the airspace from rival newspaper groups. It is estimated that the excavation of the Murat driveway will be viewed by over 1 billion people over a week...

[/i]

Protect airspace from rival newspaper groups?  Giving the impression that all newspapers own helicopters that they'll they deploy for an aerial view of a morbid activity? Jesus H Christ, which planet is that barking MAN living in? Typical symptom of someone with a ginormous EGO!

I billion people over a week watching the excavation of a dead body??   Is that reflection of Mccanns notorious status or reflection of Birch's chronic delusions of grandeur?  I know which I believe.

Good Grief, haven't read anything as LUDICROUS as this in my entire life.  Imagine anyone wanting to tune in to exhumation of the death!
ONE billion  - eclipsing even Diana's wedding, Good God!

Let's all wait with baited breath for the spectacle of the millennium to get started........

aquila wrote:

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Let's all wait with baited breath for the spectacle of the millennium to get started........

There couldn't be yet another sighting with the libel trial going on so we have the SB rubbish surfacing and another opportunity for 'internet nutters plague McCanns'. It's almost like it was put there on purpose!

I'm not even sure there's been a sighting since SY released the information about a couple soothing a crying Maddie in the apartment the night before she went missing has there?

Whatever the message was to TM it terrified them imo, they've been schtum ever since.

Murat agrees to Madeleine dig.
Posted by admin On October - 4 - 2013
Chris Spivey / Stephen Birch / Rapport

snipped
 
So, after my conversation with Stephen yesterday evening in which I asked him how negotiations with Robert Murat were progressing, he issued me with the following exclusive information:

Quote we need to negotiate various things.

1. Robert Murat wants money for the dig – we need to agree on price.
   
   
   
2. Secondly we need to finalize an upfront agreement in which he is prohibited from taking legal action against me for previously trespassing.
   
   
   
3. We need to incorporate a clause in the agreement preventing him from bringing a damages action against me, if Maddie is not there.
   
   
   
4. Next Robert needs to undertake that no one has disturbed the driveway in the last 14 months.
   
   
   
5. We also need to agree on jurisdiction for the document. I am not fighting any legal wars in Portugal- I want SA jurisdiction for the agreement – we also need a nominated arbitration clause with an agreed nominated arbitrator for any disputes.
   
   
   
6. We would also need access to such things as water and electricity and issues like security during the excavation would need to be finalized…Its going to be chaos with Portuguese police, media and locals wanting to access the site
   
   
   

Read more:
http://www.chrisspivey.co.uk/?p=14731

Is this another distraction, but why? If, if it does go ahead I hope he's got a forensic archaeologist with him

Still barking that man. He's like dog with a bone, wont give up.

BTW, he forgot to include in his legal document airspace right for helicopters to hoover? 

ETA: He's on a parallel planet if he hasn't seen the "Scotland Yard trawling Phone Records" headlines

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT MURAT
Updated: 06-Jul-2012

‘The whole thing is daft. I am so angry’

Robert Murat reacts to a press report claiming Madeleine McCann’s body is buried in his backyard

snipped 

However, Robert Murat said: “Every single part of the house, inside and out, was checked in 2007 by more than 20 police officers, who found absolutely nothing. They used Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) equipment, which was brought by a Civil Protection team, to search the grounds of the property and the area surrounding Casa Liliana.”

Former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral, who was involved in the Madeleine investigation in the beginning, told CM that the PJ’s searches of the house had been “thorough”.

Murat, who hasn’t lived at the house “for years”, said his mother Jenny, who is 76 years old, is feeling very uncomfortable in her own home. “Her privacy is being invaded again,” he said. “She is distraught and I am very angry. My lawyers are dealing with this.”

http://www.algarveresident.com/0-47823/algarve/exclusive-interview-with-robert-murat

So what's happened between then and now, or is Birch away with the faries?

Wonder if Jenny Murat has finnished her book yet?

I certainly won't believe it unless either Murat confirms publicly that they are in agreement.

i am confused as to why Mr Birch is just written off as if he has no credibility? 

i have come into all of this with a fresh pair of eyes because as of last week i was one of the ignorant UK population who really thought Madeleine has been 'abducted', and felt sorry for the McCanns, until I found this forum and started reading some FACTS.   i see a lot of people quick to dismiss Birch's claims or vaguely refer to him as some sort of loon. maybe he is, i dont know, but I want to know why people have formed this opinion of him?  were his findings not backed up by several independent experts?  can they be discredited? 

I have read that he has been given permission to dig, pending some details to be ironed out, financial, etc... the details of the agreement between himself and RM which will then enable him to begin, however I have just found his 'Digging for Madeleine McCann' page on facebook and he seems to still be drumming up support for the dig and makes no mention of having been given permission.  Admittedly, that seems strange if he has already been given tentative permission to dig.  So I do note that is contradictory.

I have no idea whether she is buried there, and no reason to believe or not to believe that she is.  It does seem suspect to me that there is any resistance from the Murats to allow this simple dig (although perhaps there is a fear that he will of course be implicated if she is found there), but if he is certain that she isnt there, then why RM not just say, go for it!, if only to eliminate the possibility that she is, and make himself appear more innocent in the event she isnt found, by his willingness to participate?  RM long resistance to allow this seems weird to me. 

i think its as good a possibility as any that she could be buried there.

and so i do want to know why Mr Birch's claims seem to be met with such a dismissive air.  why would he be doing this?  I am not 'defending' him, but I am curious as to the root of the skepticism about him ?

Interested to know how he has decided exactly were the spot is he wants to dig.

That machine of his must be worth a fortune - Hope he has a worldwide patent

notlongnow wrote:Interested to know how he has decided exactly were the spot is he wants to dig.

apparently a short driveway to nowhere was installed on the property in 2008, after the disappearance, so he snuck into RMs property and scanned the thing with his sonar device (or somesuch), and i think thats how he found the 'spot'.

and even listener (above) has gone into a fit of giggles at the mention?  that has subsequently given me the giggles as well, but i do want to know what is so funny too?     is it not possible she is there?  i dont get it!  please enlighten me!?

dotdot wrote:

notlongnow wrote:Interested to know how he has decided exactly were the spot is he wants to dig.

apparently a short driveway to nowhere was installed on the property in 2008, after the disappearance, so he snuck into RMs property and scanned the thing with his sonar device (or somesuch), and i think thats how he found the 'spot'.

and even listener (above) has gone into a fit of giggles at the mention?  that has subsequently given me the giggles as well, but i do want to know what is so funny too?     is it not possible she is there?  i dont get it!  please enlighten me!?

Hi, dotdot,
No disrespect meant in placing the smilie in my post, but IF a body had been placed under his new drive he (Murat) would certainly have had it removed after learning about the capabilities of this remarkable device !

listener wrote:

dotdot wrote:

notlongnow wrote:Interested to know how he has decided exactly were the spot is he wants to dig.

apparently a short driveway to nowhere was installed on the property in 2008, after the disappearance, so he snuck into RMs property and scanned the thing with his sonar device (or somesuch), and i think thats how he found the 'spot'.

and even listener (above) has gone into a fit of giggles at the mention?  that has subsequently given me the giggles as well, but i do want to know what is so funny too?     is it not possible she is there?  i dont get it!  please enlighten me!?

Hi, dotdot,
No disrespect meant in placing the smilie in my post, but IF a body had been placed under his new drive he (Murat) would certainly have had it removed after learning about the capabilities of this remarkable device !

no disrespect perceived at all here :) 

surely this type of technology has been available long before this, and i agree if RM was aware of all this sonar (whatever its called) stuff being carried out on his own property, he would certainly have had the body removed, but if RM was not even aware of this person doing this (which he wasnt, because apparently Birch trespassed in the night to take his scan) then he would look a bit suspect digging up his own driveway in order to remove any body hidden there after Birch has made it claims. it would be easy to detect that his driveway had been disturbed if he (RM) performed his own excavation, so he had no choice but to refuse the dig (if she is there!).  but if he knows she isnt there - then why is he not eager to eliminate this possibility if only to clear his name further?  why is he creating an obstacle to this line of enquiry by his refusal to allow the dig?  if someone asked me if they could dig up my back garden because sonar had detected a possibility of a small child being buried there, i would be bringing them cups of tea while they got to work immediately !!!

ive now found this thread which sheds some light on the questions people have for Stephen Birch, so reading through it is answering my question as to where the skepticism is coming from.....  https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5264p40-questions-to-mr-stephen-birch

my personal standpoint when reviving this current post was that, even totally disregarding any words Stephen Birch has uttered, if he has hardcore proof that something is buried there (which I was under the impression that he has?), then it is worth digging.  he allegedly has these scans which have been reviewed by experts, so I could not understand why people would not take this as a serious possibility.

i guess its when he started purporting theories involving planting of DNA by the Portugese police in the hire car, then yes i can now see why people might discredit his claims...

dotdot wrote:i guess its when he started purporting theories involving planting of DNA by the Portugese police in the hire car, then yes i can now see why people might discredit his claims...

But I don't see why. Every possibility has to be looked at and it's unanalytical to ignore one of them because you've already made your mind up

Snipped from dotdot's post:


" i guess its when he started purporting theories involving planting of DNA by the Portugese police in the hire car, then yes i can now see why people might discredit his claims... "

As somebody posted about planting of DNA - where would the police have got the DNA from?

plebgate wrote:As somebody posted about planting of DNA - where would the police have got the DNA from?

It wouldn't have had to be DNA, just something that the dogs alert to
I am not saying this happened, but it has never been disproven

I thought the police had already dug or scanned the driveway?

Dotdot's post said that Birch had purported that the police had planted DNA evidence in the hire car, I may be wrong, but didn't this originally arise from the family?


We never did hear anything further about the dig which was going to be seen by a billion people back in the summer.   Helicopters up in the sky etc.  Wonder why?