McCanns Hire Car Contract

JD I noticed you were not posting for a little while and missed your posts. This thread shows exactly why I missed your input.

As with all things McCann, what started out with having "wholly innocent explanations", like the old address perhaps being just a simple act of forgetfulness, has now turned into a subject that has absolute descrepancies that require proper explanation.

Lots to think about, read and look into on this topic. Well done you

bobbin wrote:

Mirage wrote:

bobbin wrote:

Dr What wrote:Well played jd.

Was someone impersonating someone else in all this? Did Cameron pretend to be Wright for the rental purposes?Makes you wonder if it was GM who originally hired in car in the first place,and the impersonator got the address wrong.
What a little web.But nothing happens by accident.
All those trips to far-away places in the car.I hope they didn't accidentally lose any luggage en route,particularly sports bags.
Makes you wonder what our professional police force has been reviewing for the past 2 years!

They're in B&Q wondering which tins of white paint to buy and what size of roller.
This job will probably need three coats.
Just as well forum members here are doing the work that detectives should be doing, or am I about to be surprised and it's not a whitewash job after all.
Perhaps we'd better just check in Allied Carpets whilst we're here in case something has been swept under one of the up to 100% off shop displays. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

There will always be that one little corner though that needs constant re-touches. Out damned spot!

Is that the corner the McCs and all their entourage of high up protectors, heavy boys and sycophants are trying to paint their way out of ? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Yes dear, the little corner in some foreign field that is forever England.

GM's Driver No. has an error in it. The last 3 letters/nos. read G99. It should read GP9. His middle name is quoted on his licence so his initials are GP, hence GP9. G99 means there is no middle name.

The date shown against MW's licence is 03/07/1981. This could well be the date of passing his test but could not be the current issue date of his licence as licences only last for ten years before renewal is required. The date of passing the driving test appears on the back of a UK licence against the categories of vehicles. The date of issue of the driving licence appears on the front. Would a car hire company make the mistake of using the wrong date if the licence were in front of them and all the relevant details were on the front of the licence?

aquila wrote:GM's Driver No. has an error in it. The last 3 letters/nos. read G99. It should read GP9. His middle name is quoted on his licence so his initials are GP, hence GP9. G99 means there is no middle name.

The date shown against MW's licence is 03/07/1981. This could well be the date of passing his test but could not be the current issue date of his licence as licences only last for ten years before renewal is required. The date of passing the driving test appears on the back of a UK licence against the categories of vehicles. The date of issue of the driving licence appears on the front. Would a car hire company make the mistake of using the wrong date if the licence were in front of them and all the relevant details were on the front of the licence?

There is just too much inconsistency showing up here now, regarding the hiring of cars.
I now think it is necessary to start collating all this information and start looking at whether in fact the McCs did have a car in that week, to go on trips etc. either with the children, or with only some or one of the children whilst the others were safely stowed away and out of sight at the creche.
What with 'inconsistent' creche signings by god knows who, for which child, some names even scratched out by parents who couldn't apparently remember their child's name.
Madeleine was apparently pulled out of creche on the 1st (was it) after just 15 minutes, photos of her possibly in Burgau, just too much is beginning to have a really rank smell here.
This hire car research, and all the muck that it is throwing up, is really important here.

quote bobbin " Madeleine was apparently pulled out of creche on the 1st (was it) after
just 15 minutes, photos of her possibly in Burgau, just too much is
beginning to have a really rank smell here.
This hire car research, and all the muck that it is throwing up, is really important here. "

Hi Bobbin,
It was VERY INTERESTINGLY imo the afternoon of 30th April when Maddie was taken out of creche after only 15 minutes, while the twins were left in theirs. No word of what Maddie was doing or in whose [ presumably adult] company she was for 2 hours.
One day that Kate is almost completely silent about in her book, when we are subjected to trivia and boring routine otherwise. She alludes only to the evening meal and a trip with one of the women in the group to the local supermarket. That this day was out of the normal routine would for most people make it an interesting part of the narrative. It is strange that Kate mentions and wants it on the record that she slept one evening in the childrens' room, a change in routine, but there is nothing, nada, zilch about events on 30th April. Same as with her eldest's most distinguishing feature....of the coloboma, or fleck, there is not one mention.

A car for that week would make sense of the nonsensical no buggies story.
No hire records needed if someone already known to them or with whom they became acquainted allowed them the use of their vehicle.

aquila wrote:GM's Driver No. has an error in it. The last 3 letters/nos. read G99. It should read GP9. His middle name is quoted on his licence so his initials are GP, hence GP9. G99 means there is no middle name.

The date shown against MW's licence is 03/07/1981. This could well be the date of passing his test but could not be the current issue date of his licence as licences only last for ten years before renewal is required. The date of passing the driving test appears on the back of a UK licence against the categories of vehicles. The date of issue of the driving licence appears on the front. Would a car hire company make the mistake of using the wrong date if the licence were in front of them and all the relevant details were on the front of the licence?

Card licences with a photo came in in 1998 I believe. Before that, paper licences minus photo are valid until age 70. If you hold a paper one but change address, you will be issued with the card style.
I don't know when they moved to Queniborough but if before '98 it's possible he still had the paper version in 2005 as he hadn't updated his address.
As an aside, Queniborough was the centre of the first outbreak of BSE (mad cow disease.)

[quote="russiandoll"
A car for that week would make sense of the nonsensical no buggies story.
No hire records needed if someone already known to them or with whom they became acquainted allowed them the use of their vehicle.[/quote]

The Gorrods had a car, knew Tanner and her family and they met during the holiday too.

I`ve been catching up with this thread - taken me ages.

Does anyone know what an Fls number is, as shown on the hire card records?

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All the other renters have the same Fls number (don`t know if this is FLS or FIS)

In chronological order :-

Simon Halder - 2920 - 10th March

Simon Halder - 2920 - 17th March

John Paterson - 2923 - 18th March

John Paterson - 2923 - 25th March

Kenneth Walkden - 2926 - 25th March

Kenneth Walkden - 2926 - 1st April

Adrian Lowes - 2930 - 2nd April

Adrian Lowes - 2930 - 12th April

John Brown - 2933 - 8th May

John Brown - 2933 - 15th May

Fernando Vilela - 2936 - 17th May

Fernando Vilela - 2936 - 22nd May

Enawgaw Mengistae - 2903 - 23rd May

Enawgaw Mengistae - 2903 - 26th May

Gerald McCann - 2906 - 27th May

Gerald McCann - 2906 - 3rd June at 12.30

Gerald McCann - 2909 - 3rd June at 12.30

Gerald McCann - 2912 - 3rd June at 12.30

Gerald McCann - 2909 - 3rd June at 12.30

Gerald McCann - 2914 - 2nd August at 12.30

Gerald McCann - 2912 - No date

Gerald McCann - 2914 - 1st Sept at 12.30

Gerald McCann - 2897 - 1st Sept at 12.30

Gerald McCann - 2897 - 23rd Sept at 15.30.

If we put these Fls numbers in order, why would Gerry`s number be earlier than the other peoples?

Halder, Paterson, Walkden. Lowes, Brown, and Vilela are all reasonably sequential. But then we have an earlier number with Mengistae (2903) - does this mean he`s an earlier customer? But then Gerry has numbers right back in the 2897s way before even Mengistae. Then Gerry has many other numbers although given at same date and same time.

Does anyone know what these Fls numbers are?

In order to provide me with further clarification, my interlocutor put me in telephone contact with I***** P*****, from Budget administration, contactable on ***********. This lady explained to me that the company AA Castanheira-Buget used the vehicle by means of a contract they have with Renault Portugal. The contract they have giving them the right to use the car had already terminated and this is why they had already requested the return of the vehicle by the McCann couple in order to return the Renault. They informed the McCanns that they could exchange the vehicle for another if they wished to continue to use the company’s services. As they showed an interest in continuing to use the same vehicle in question, they were informed that they could continue to do so only if they were to purchase the vehicle, to which they responded negatively and that is why they had to return the car.

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Wonder if perhaps now GM wishes he had went ahead and purchased the Renault...

Just to pick up on some points:

Credit Cards - I personally believe that the stolen wallet episode was to 'have a legit reason' to have them cancelled i.e. a new card will have no trace of previous transactions, and the PJ were very interested in obtaining the credit card transactions upto 6 weeks before the holiday. For example, if Ernesto Joaquim Muchacho is correct in his statement when he says the mccanns and their kids were at his Zaival beach restaurant at Easter (4th-6th April), then transactions on the credit card will show they had been in Portugual a few weeks before the PDL holiday, therefore not in Donegal as they have claimed. jim gamble/CEOP getting so deeply involved comes to mind. There is a topic on the wallet snatch analysing the episode worth reading to all new members

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Why can't they even hire a car without a whole mass of weirdness surrounding it?....Exactly!!! this is just a basic straight forward transaction

All those trips to far-away places....To those more familiar with the facts of the case, have you noticed just how many holidays this family had? As an example, at that time in 2007 referenced from their statements....Donegal in April, PDL May, Centre Parks planned for June, another trip planned for October!! Thats 4 holidays in 5 months, not only is this extortionate but how is gerry mccann getting all this time off work, not to mention the cost of taking a family of 5 on so many holidays & still be able to pay the mortagage and all the other bills

Aplogies if already stated, but GM would be entitled to an Irish passport in addition to the UK one. ..Not relevant to this topic but I was interested to learn that although rachael oldfield is classed as British, her passport was issued in Australia. Nothing dodgy about this, but building up a picture she did go there and I think jane tanner was in Australia for a few months the previous year too

Is it possible that GM had two driving licences as well as two passports? I guess this is possible but why? Surely if you had 2 you would use the current one for the car hire. Its like gerry mccann is living under 2 different ID's. People living normal everyday lives do not need to have 2 ID's unless they are up to something dodgy imo. Sometimes for work purposes I can see why 2 ID's might be necessary but not for an everyday normal NHS doctor imo

JD I noticed you were not posting for a little while and missed your posts. This thread shows exactly why I missed your input....Thank you Sami. Have never gone away but have been researching more rather than posting. There is so much info to get your head around and takes time to be able to try and put it together simply and easy to see the mass inconsistencies and lies. I am totally determined to crack this and help expose it, for Maddie and for a number of other reasons

It was VERY INTERESTINGLY imo the afternoon of 30th April when Maddie was taken out of creche after only 15 minutes, while the twins were left in theirs. No word of what Maddie was doing or in whose [ presumably adult] company she was for 2 hours. One day that Kate is almost completely silent about in her book, .....Yes exactly. This day nobody seems to talk about and/or try to move on when questioned about the particulars of this day. Even GA passed over it in his book...but we know a lot more with these creche sheets RD!!!

Does anyone know what an Fls number is, as shown on the hire card records?....On first glance, it looks to me that the FIs number could be aligned to the particular car, as a reference number for the particular car ?

A little more on this car hire, this time from Patricia Cameron (RI of 15th April 2008)
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We went to Manchester and stayed at a friends house before catching the first flight of the morning, on Saturday 5th May 2007.

We arrived in Portugal on Saturday morning, where a friend lent us a car to use and we went to Praia da Luz.

So they had a car. they had "a friend" in Portugual they knew so well that they would lend them their car within 24 hours notice. Why didn't Sandy Cameron mention this in his statement but instead state it was a good idea to be added to gerry mcccanns hire car of 27th May, even though he was not on the contract as a named driver! I have so many other questions about this

a seriously important topic this imo... lets keep at it jd. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

russiandoll wrote:a seriously important topic this imo... lets keep at it jd. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Thanks RD...Just reading back some of the credit card topic and this is an important one too I feel whilst refreshing the facts of the wallet snatch

Woofer, those Fi numbers look like the file page numbers for each copy of the car rental contracts. The reason the others have just one number and GM has several, is because the others didn't rehire the car, so only have one reference file each. The reason GMs is an earlier number I am guessing is because his activity was looked at first before the others.

Spaniel, if GMs driving licence was issued in 2005 it will have been the new photocard type, as you say these were introduced in 1998. And at the time he was living at the old address.

MWs would be valid until he is 70 as it is the old paper type issued in 1981. He must have never moved house since.

Referring to my previous post about Fls numbers on the hire car records, I`ve done a bit of research and found that `Fls` is short for `folhas` which means `sheet or page` in Portuguese.

So why would Gerry have sheet numbers going way back before Halder/2920/10th March, maybe back into the previous year seeing as some of his sheet numbers go back to 2897 and 2906. Why would the rental hire company give him a reference to months before.

JD - I don`t think this FIs number is related to a particular car, but I could be wrong.

P.S. Whoops Inspector Frost - posted just after you - I still don`t get why his numbers would go back further.

PPS - Could the sheet numbers refer to another ledger in the office which records every customer?

jd wrote:We went to Manchester and stayed at a friends house before catching the first flight of the morning, on Saturday 5th May 2007.

We arrived in Portugal on Saturday morning, where a friend lent us a car to use and we went to Praia da Luz.

So they had a car. they had "a friend" in Portugual they knew so well that they would lend them their car within 24 hours notice. Why didn't Sandy Cameron mention this in his statement but instead state it was a good idea to be added to gerry mcccanns hire car of 27th May, even though he was not on the contract as a named driver! I have so many other questions about this

Could this have been Murat? IIRC Murat himself needed to hire a car urgently, the following Saturday because his own was 'needed by those involved in the search for the four-year-old' ... a story which was later changed to 'because his was in for repairs'.
If so, it would explain GM's "no comment" when asked if he was already aquainted with RM.

Woofer, those numbers refer to the PJ files page numbers, not to the car company. It is just the order they were in in the process, i.e. i think GMs car activity was looked at and/or filed first, if you see what I mean.

See the handwritten numbers on the top right of each one

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Woofer wrote:Referring to my previous post about Fls numbers on the hire car records, I`ve done a bit of research and found that `Fls` is short for `folhas` which means `sheet or page` in Portuguese.

So why would Gerry have sheet numbers going way back before Halder/2920/10th March, maybe back into the previous year seeing as some of his sheet numbers go back to 2897 and 2906. Why would the rental hire company give him a reference to months before.

JD - I don`t think this FIs number is related to a particular car, but I could be wrong.

P.S. Whoops Inspector Frost - posted just after you - I still don`t get why his numbers would go back further.

PPS - Could the sheet numbers refer to another ledger in the office which records every customer?

Yes I think you are right, that it looks that it is referencing sheet numbers. Will be worth trying to find the sheet numbers each number refers to, and try to work out how far back 2897 goes to with dates

One thing I noticed on one of the mccanns hire contracts in PDL...One contract had the client address as Budget in the UK

Didn't he go to Praia for a golf holiday ?
This is turning into a fascinating thread. I always prefer cock-up to conspiracy, mistake to misconduct, but this . . . !!!!

Lady-Heather wrote:

jd wrote:We went to Manchester and stayed at a friends house before catching the first flight of the morning, on Saturday 5th May 2007.

We arrived in Portugal on Saturday morning, where a friend lent us a car to use and we went to Praia da Luz.

So they had a car. they had "a friend" in Portugual they knew so well that they would lend them their car within 24 hours notice. Why didn't Sandy Cameron mention this in his statement but instead state it was a good idea to be added to gerry mcccanns hire car of 27th May, even though he was not on the contract as a named driver! I have so many other questions about this

Could this have been Murat? IIRC Murat himself needed to hire a car urgently, the following Saturday because his own was 'needed by those involved in the search for the four-year-old' ... a story which was later changed to 'because his was in for repairs'.
If so, it would explain GM's "no comment" when asked if he was already aquainted with RM.

mmmmm Good spot, though if it is this one below then he hired it on May 12th and the Camerons got their "friends' car on the 5th...But this car hire is very curious too

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PeterMac wrote:Didn't he go to Praia for a golf holiday ?
This is turning into a fascinating thread. I always prefer cock-up to conspiracy, mistake to misconduct, but this . . . !!!!

Didn't robert murat say this was "the biggest c*** up in history"......What could he be referring to I wonder!

Inspectorfrost wrote:Woofer, those numbers refer to the PJ files page numbers, not to the car company. It is just the order they were in in the process, i.e. i think GMs car activity was looked at and/or filed first, if you see what I mean.

See the handwritten number on the top right

[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RENTAL_CONTRACTS-1.htm

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ok, so you say these are PJ records for the car - but why would they have `aluguer` and `devolucao` meaning `rental` and `devolution` stamped on them when surely those are terms which a care hire firm would use not a police force.

PeterMac wrote:Didn't he go to Praia for a golf holiday ?
This is turning into a fascinating thread. I always prefer cock-up to conspiracy, mistake to misconduct, but this . . . !!!!

Thanks for breaking the tension PM - you always make me laugh[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Woofer wrote:

Inspectorfrost wrote:Woofer, those numbers refer to the PJ files page numbers, not to the car company. It is just the order they were in in the process, i.e. i think GMs car activity was looked at and/or filed first, if you see what I mean.

See the handwritten number on the top right

[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RENTAL_CONTRACTS-1.htm

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ok, so you say these are PJ records for the car - but why would they have `aluguer` and `devolucao` meaning `rental` and `devolution` stamped on them when surely those are terms which a care hire firm would use not a police force.

If you are referring to that graph on the bottom of the PJ car rental page, that was done by a poster, to put all the info together, not by the PJ. This is what I remember, and it doesnt have the property of PJ watermark on it like all their other pages.

jd wrote:

Lady-Heather wrote:

jd wrote:We went to Manchester and stayed at a friends house before catching the first flight of the morning, on Saturday 5th May 2007.

We arrived in Portugal on Saturday morning, where a friend lent us a car to use and we went to Praia da Luz.

So they had a car. they had "a friend" in Portugual they knew so well that they would lend them their car within 24 hours notice. Why didn't Sandy Cameron mention this in his statement but instead state it was a good idea to be added to gerry mcccanns hire car of 27th May, even though he was not on the contract as a named driver! I have so many other questions about this

Could this have been Murat? IIRC Murat himself needed to hire a car urgently, the following Saturday because his own was 'needed by those involved in the search for the four-year-old' ... a story which was later changed to 'because his was in for repairs'.
If so, it would explain GM's "no comment" when asked if he was already aquainted with RM.

mmmmm Good spot, though if it is this one below then he hired it on May 12th and the Camerons got their "friends' car on the 5th...But this car hire is very curious too

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What is it with these people? I can't make out the address but the postcode NR20 3HL is an address in Hockering, Norfolk. Didn't RM live at Casa Lilliana?

What I'm thinking jd, is that RM may have lent his car to 'the family involved in the search', which may have been fine for a week or so as he would likely have had access to his mother's car (a VW, IIRC). But then something happened the following weekend which necessited the urgent hire of the Getz, as above.

The address seems to read....
2 The street

then it is indistinct.