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Post by juliet 22.02.14 14:00

Following on from Tony's post - is it the case that there were only two tennis courts at the OC? If so how did Mccann and his pals get away with hogging them? They also claim to have had preferential treatment at the Tapas with their booking and being late/missing. They must have seemed a rude, arrogant gang to staff and other holivedaymakers.
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Post by HelenMeg 22.02.14 15:13

jd wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The Queniborugh address gerry mccann used with Budget rent-a-car hire contract is false as he had moved out of this address some 17 months previous on 20th January 2006 and was living in Rothley

The DVLA number seems to be correct

But what is the "pass" number? 654646546  01-01-2007

This seems to be a passport number which looking at other contracts seems to be the obvious case, with the date of issue of the passport

Aside from January 1st being a bank holiday (New Years Day), this does not match his passport number in the PJ Files, which says 704******
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Nor are the issue and expiry dates on his passport which are
Issued on Sept 2nd 2004
Expires Sept 2nd 2014

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So what is  654646546  01-01-2007? Is it a false passport number? Does gerry mccann have 2 passports?

Also, the Queniborough house was sold on 20th January 2006...Interesting to note there is a stamp on gerry mccanns passport on 19th January 2006
Why would the queniborough address be used?  I cant imagine a circumstance where you would give a past address, unless you were hiring the car within, say, a few days of moving house. That is clearly not the case.  What I think is that Gerry had hired cars through the company before and his previous address was on record, therefore when they looked him up in the system, he was found and he just did not bother
to update them with the new address. This says that he had used them before as a hire company. Does that have any implications..
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Post by HelenMeg 22.02.14 15:15

I think he had played golf there before, hadn't he, so is likely to have hired a car from them previously. Probably it was a well used place for golf holidays, for members of Rothley Park, and therefore
they would all tend to use the same hire company for cars. .
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Post by HelenMeg 22.02.14 15:36

I have just been looking at Michael Wright as he was added as an additional driver: his statement relating to this is copied here:(I am interested as to why Gerry used a former address).

At the time I travelled with Anne-Marie on 8 June, Kate and Gerry had rented a vehicle. It had seven seats, I judged [thought] it to be a Renault Espace. Gerry suggested that I be added to the insured driver's list so that I could drive it while they were in Morocco, but I judged [thought] that to be unnecessary as they would only be gone for a few days. When I was in Portugal on 12 July I was picked up by Kate who was driving the Renault Espace.

It was on our trip to Portugal on 22 August that Gerry suggested that I was added to the contract as an additional driver and I accepted. Gerry and I went to Lagos and I was included in the contract as additional driver.

I drove the car regularly in August and September, doing the shopping at the supermarket, taking the house and garden rubbish to the recycling area in PdL and also taking the twins to creche and to the beach, and trips to the airport. I was also a passenger in the car at various times, mainly in June and July when Gerry and Sandy drove.

There are various rubbish recycling/dump areas and we used these:
- two trash bins
[skips?] at the villa, one at the main entrance and the other at the top of the hill;
- one area on the cemetery road;
- one area above the Mark Warner complex, and
- one area between the villa and the church.

The visiting gardener always generated garden rubbish and this was usually leaves and grass. Gerry and I would usually take this rubbish to the bin at the top of the property.

I never observed anything strange in the vehicle at any time that I was in it.

I noted some disagreeable smells on a number of occasions which I judged to have come from the twins' nappies. Discarded nappies were collected in rubbish bags and held until thrown into the [rubbish] bins, [thereby] provoking smell.
I have no knowledge of anything spilling from any article nor of any cleaning of the car after such a hypothetical spill.
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Post by Newintown 22.02.14 16:07

HelenMeg wrote:I think he had played golf there before, hadn't he, so is likely to have hired a car from them previously. Probably it was a well used place for golf holidays, for members of Rothley Park, and therefore
they would all tend to use the same hire company for cars. .

The golf club connection is interesting.  I looked up golf courses around PDL and the nearest is Budens, 9.5 miles from PDL, now called parque-da-floresta -

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Santo Antonio former Parque da Floresta is a course built on hillsides and over uneven ground with views over a fishing village. With a number of different obstacles such as bunkers, lakes and rivers, it provides a challenge of great diversity.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Bunkers, lakes and rivers, a good combination for hiding a body - sand dunes and water. I wonder if the lakes and rivers are ever drained, if not a good hiding place, as with the sand bunkers, if the bunkers are very deep.

Some of the phone pings were activated at Budens, and also at Sagres.  Sagres has a huge ravine overlooking the sea (very overgrown and wild) and only a short distance from Budens.

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Post by Watching The Detectives 22.02.14 16:47

I wonder if Gerry had not got around to updating the address on his driving licence and so the car rental receptionist took his old address from that.

Perhaps Gerry did not want to inform them that it was an old address incase it put a fly in the ointment as far as hiring the car was concerned.
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Post by travis macbickle 22.02.14 16:48

Châtelaine wrote:You're talking to yourself , Travis ?
 winkwink 
this is a very exhausting thread!
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Post by HelenMeg 22.02.14 16:50

In Gerry's witness statement, he says he previously visited Portugal in 1994 (see below). Was he speaking the truth?
Why oh why did he have Queniborough down as his address?

[color:5e30=000000]When asked, he said that he had already been to Portugal in 1994. He stayed in an apartment on the outskirts of Albufeira. He has only returned to Portugal on this occasion.

The desire to get to know Portugal in 1994 was due to the fact that he plays golf and the country is known for its excellent facilities that practise.


[color:5e30=000000][color:5e30=000000](taken from M cCann files:
[color:5e30=000000]Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, on the 4th of May 2007, at 11.15 a.m.

Processos Vol I, pages 34 - 41
Location: CID Portimão).
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Post by HelenMeg 22.02.14 16:56

Watching The Detectives wrote:I wonder if Gerry had not got around to updating the address on his driving licence and so the car rental receptionist took his old address from that.

Perhaps Gerry did not want to inform them that it was an old address incase it put a fly in the ointment as far as hiring the car was concerned.
I wondered if that might be the case - but we are talking 17 months after he had moved out of Queniborough. That is nearly 1 and half years.
I know from having moved several times that various things prompt you to update your license address at least within a few months of moving. 

Still, I suppose it is possible that he just hadn't bothered. But I tend to think he either had hired a car previously using the old address or just deliberately avoiding giving his current address - more
smoke and mirrors...  this man appears to be conniving to say the least.
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Post by HelenMeg 22.02.14 17:05

Another golf club link -
GERRY McCANN plays golf at ROTHLEY PARK GOLF COURSE, where the Manager is a DANNY SPILLANE. Danny worked in Portugal and knows a chain of people known to each other, who have some connection to the McCann’s. This may be of NO significance but the McCann’s were supposed to have NO CONTACTS in Portugal.

DANNY SPILLANE
Turning professional at 17, Danny Spillane moved from Lingdale to ROTHLEY PARK, where under the then Club Pro Peter Dolan he completed his training becoming one of the countries youngest qualified Professionals at 20 years old. Several Pro/Am successes and a County Assistants championship were won during this time.

From ROTHLEY to PORTUGAL, where a role of teaching professional at the Parque da Floresta resort was Danny’s next port of call. This role progressed to him becoming the Director of Golf overseeing the resorts £1 million turnover at the age of 24. Whilst in Portugal, Danny helped to run the Henry Cooper Charity Golf Classic and controlled a £1.5 million renovation to the course.

and John Geraghty is a friend of Danny !
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Post by travis macbickle 22.02.14 17:10

HelenMeg wrote:
Watching The Detectives wrote:I wonder if Gerry had not got around to updating the address on his driving licence and so the car rental receptionist took his old address from that.

Perhaps Gerry did not want to inform them that it was an old address incase it put a fly in the ointment as far as hiring the car was concerned.
I wondered if that might be the case - but we are talking 17 months after he had moved out of Queniborough. That is nearly 1 and half years.
I know from having moved several times that various things prompt you to update your license address at least within a few months of moving. 

Still, I suppose it is possible that he just hadn't bothered. But I tend to think he either had hired a car previously using the old address or just deliberately avoiding giving his current address - more
smoke and mirrors...  this man appears to be conniving to say the least.
maybe he didn,t want his cats file to follow him.
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Post by HelenMeg 22.02.14 17:16

travis macbickle wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
Watching The Detectives wrote:I wonder if Gerry had not got around to updating the address on his driving licence and so the car rental receptionist took his old address from that.

Perhaps Gerry did not want to inform them that it was an old address incase it put a fly in the ointment as far as hiring the car was concerned.
I wondered if that might be the case - but we are talking 17 months after he had moved out of Queniborough. That is nearly 1 and half years.
I know from having moved several times that various things prompt you to update your license address at least within a few months of moving. 

Still, I suppose it is possible that he just hadn't bothered. But I tend to think he either had hired a car previously using the old address or just deliberately avoiding giving his current address - more
smoke and mirrors...  this man appears to be conniving to say the least.
maybe he didn,t want his cats file to follow him.
Indeed  -  CATS File 19309
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Post by HelenMeg 22.02.14 17:25

Wondering what the pass number is - could it be a digital boarding pass. Cant be passport number unless it was entered as a dummy number for some reason. I googled
this number and surprising how many results came - none of which meant anything.
Whatever it was, it wasn't needed for the additional driver
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Post by HelenMeg 22.02.14 17:29

It could possible relate to the car itself -
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Post by travis macbickle 22.02.14 17:31

when you have a bad debt at an address and you move home, you may be reluctant to give the dvla your new details ,just  in case one of your creditors is able to track you down.albeit with sculldugery.ditto mccann with his 2002 cats file.that may even have been a reason for his moving home.he could apply for jobs etc hoping that the previous conviction may be missed.
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Post by travis macbickle 22.02.14 17:38

HelenMeg wrote:Wondering what the pass number is - could it be a digital boarding pass. Cant be passport number unless it was entered as a dummy number for some reason. I googled
this number and surprising how many results came - none of which meant anything.
Whatever it was, it wasn't needed for the additional driver
tb has answered this earlier in the thread
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Post by Guest 22.02.14 17:54

HelenMeg wrote:Another golf club link -
GERRY McCANN plays golf at ROTHLEY PARK GOLF COURSE, where the Manager is a DANNY SPILLANE. Danny worked in Portugal and knows a chain of people known to each other, who have some connection to the McCann’s. This may be of NO significance but the McCann’s were supposed to have NO CONTACTS in Portugal.

DANNY SPILLANE
Turning professional at 17, Danny Spillane moved from Lingdale to ROTHLEY PARK, where under the then Club Pro Peter Dolan he completed his training becoming one of the countries youngest qualified Professionals at 20 years old. Several Pro/Am successes and a County Assistants championship were won during this time.

From ROTHLEY to PORTUGAL, where a role of teaching professional at the Parque da Floresta resort was Danny’s next port of call. This role progressed to him becoming the Director of Golf overseeing the resorts £1 million turnover at the age of 24. Whilst in Portugal, Danny helped to run the Henry Cooper Charity Golf Classic and controlled a £1.5 million renovation to the course.

and John Geraghty is a friend of Danny !

HelenMeg, that is just plain scary.

As is the thought that even if Gerry indeed didn't know Walkden as claimed, what are the odds of him ending up with the same car? Even if no foul play involved that's a massive coincidence regardless.

Car hire company also complicit, along with about two hundred other people?
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Post by Guest 22.02.14 17:59

tigger wrote:
Malinka may have been Muray's patsy, just as Murat was TM's 'victim'.
Hadn't heard about earlier car being torched. Malinka had not spoken to Murat for about a year, I believe. Then Murat had an hour-long conversation with him during the holiday week.
Murat too, had curious car episodes, I'll see if I can find it.

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Seems the last one was on the 20th March 2008.
But Murat also did some rather strange things with cars in may 2007. i'll see if  there is a topic on it.

Tigger, from that very link -

"The Russian Sergey Malinka, one of the witnesses from the case related to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann almost a year ago in the Praia da Luz (Lagos), admits to leave Portugal as a consequence of the fire that, in the last dawn of Thursday destroyed his car completely. “It is a vengeance for the involvement of my name in the Madeleine’s case and I am full of this! It is already the second car that they set on fire; I do not even know what to do with my life. But if things continue, I am going to return to my Country” told Sergey Malinka, angry, to neighbors and friends in Praia da Luz."

Did Murat previously have to help him out with a set of wheels, I wonder?
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Post by tigger 22.02.14 19:47

This about Murat's car hire which he said was to help the McCanns because they needed a car to put posters in.
From the topic:  Robert Murat - the hire car

Candyfloss wrote:
I have just been reading some old articles, when I came across this one. I know it's probably not relevant, but it has just got me thinking. Why would Robert Murat hire a car so urgently. He says it is because the McCanns were using his. According to GM they didn't know each other, so why would a stranger, involve himself in the expense and trouble of hiring a car. Now surely, why couldn't they have hired their own car. He could perhaps have hired one form THEM to help them out. Why loan them his?? Also his mother's car was available.

My question is this, was the hire car of Murat's checked by the cadaver dogs. And was the car he owned, the one borrowed, checked too? Sorry if this has been discussed, but it intrigues me, and I feel it needs another look. Can anyone find any more. I will keep looking.




Suspect in hunt for missing girl 'wanted hire car immediately'

By Ian Herbert in Praia da Luz


Friday, 18 May 2007


Police investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann in Portugal have been told how their prime suspect, the Briton Robert Murat, was impatient to rent a car two days before he was first questioned by police, because he claimed his own was needed by those involved in the search for the four-year-old.


Staff at the Autorent 3 dealership here say they asked Mr Murat to wait until after their lunchbreak finished at 3pm last Saturday - Madeleine's fourth birthday. But he said he needed the vehicle immediately.

Maria Rocco, the member of staff who received Mr Murat's call at the dealership, opposite the church where Madeleine's parents have been praying regularly, called police to report Mr Murat's request after hearing of his arrest. "He said: 'I need a car for myself because the English people who are looking for the little girl need to borrow my car," Mrs Rocco recalled. "You could tell from his voice that he needed it in a hurry. I was puzzled. Why would he need to lend his car to somebody else [in the search]?"The revelation comes after police questioned Mr Murat's mother, Jennifer, yesterday about her son's alleged involvement in Madeleine's abduction. Yesterday it was reported that police arrived at Mrs Murat's £600,000 villa in Praia da Luz to quiz her about her role as her son's alibi on the night of the abduction.

Results of these interviews will join Mrs Rocco's evidence, which was supported by the form Mr Murat signed when he collected a Hyundai Jetz at 5.16pm that day. It will certainly have interested Portuguese police since the ground search for Madeleine was being scaled down last Saturday and Mr Murat's mother's car, a green VW van, seen in the area that weekend, was available. Mr Murat has indicated that he was aware last weekend that police were tailing him and that he complained to them about this shortly before the raid on his house.

Police are also focussing their inquiries on telephone calls between Mr Murat and a Russian computer scientist, Sergey Malinka. One of these was reportedly made by Mr Malinka a few minutes after 10pm on 3 May - the time when Madeleine's parents discovered she was missing from her room at a Mark Warner resort in the Algarve town.

The Russian left his flat in Praia da Luz on Wednesday night with police who had removed a laptop and two computer hard drives. Mr Malinka declined to discuss his phone calls with Mr Murat yesterday, but insisted that videos seized from his house had no paedophile content. He confirmed his name and number were in Mr Murat's phone.

Yesterday, Mr Malinka protested his innocence. He said: "I am not a suspect in this case. I am merely a witness questioned like eight or nine others. Everything that has been said about me is lies... There have been claims in the press that I am some kind of sexual maniac or paedophile. It is nonsense. My career is destroyed and my life is ruined."

Mr Malinka remains one of the investigation's 100 witnesses, rather than a suspect like Mr Murat, but the policeman leading the inquiry, Oligario Sousa, did not rule out that situation changing. "[He is] not a suspect but it could be in the course of the investigation that something could change," he said. "It's a very dynamic investigation."

Mr Malinka, who moved to Portugal from Moscow seven years ago, says he spent several weeks helping Mr Murat and his German girlfriend, Michaela Walczuch, set up a property website a year ago. He said Mr Murat was a client, not a friend, despite reports that they had been photographed together several times after Madeleine's disappearance. "I had a working relationship with him [Robert]. How friendly can you be with a client?" he said.

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Post by Watching 22.02.14 20:10

jd wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The Queniborugh address gerry mccann used with Budget rent-a-car hire contract is false as he had moved out of this address some 17 months previous on 20th January 2006 and was living in Rothley

The DVLA number seems to be correct

But what is the "pass" number? 654646546  01-01-2007

This seems to be a passport number which looking at other contracts seems to be the obvious case, with the date of issue of the passport

Aside from January 1st being a bank holiday (New Years Day), this does not match his passport number in the PJ Files, which says 704******
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Nor are the issue and expiry dates on his passport which are
Issued on Sept 2nd 2004
Expires Sept 2nd 2014

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So what is  654646546  01-01-2007? Is it a false passport number? Does gerry mccann have 2 passports?

Also, the Queniborough house was sold on 20th January 2006...Interesting to note there is a stamp on gerry mccanns passport on 19th January 2006
What a big smile Gerry has - Is that allowed on UK Passport pics?   Oh and Kate's signature on her passport - same as the one on creche records the one time she signed as Healy.  I know a lot of people questioned that creche signature as to whether it was hers - seems it is!
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Post by Ollie 22.02.14 20:31

Could Robert Marat's insistence that he needed a hire car immediately be so the staff would remember him? I always think os the McCann's trick of getting people to look over there not over here. Was Murat a consenting patsy knowing that the PJ would have nothing on him?
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Post by Tony Bennett 22.02.14 21:26

Newintown wrote:
The golf club connection is interesting.  I looked up golf courses around PDL and the nearest is Budens, 9.5 miles from PDL, now called parque-da-floresta -

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Santo Antonio former Parque da Floresta is a course built on hillsides and over uneven ground with views over a fishing village. With a number of different obstacles such as bunkers, lakes and rivers, it provides a challenge of great diversity.

Bunkers, lakes and rivers...
Inevitably, this thread has also looked at Murat's hiring of a car, and the variations in the stated reasons for the hiring.

Murat has been the subject of more general comment.

And golf courses have come into it.

So, going off at a slight tangent, I return to the subject of 'Murat's 17 lies'.

And in answer to Newintown, I suggest that if we are looking at golf clubs in the area, we should look not at Santa Antonio but at Palmeras.

Before doing that, I think these two things need to be repeated about the thread as a whole:

1.  The best explanation to date for the strange passport number for Gerry McCann dated 01-01-07 is simply that it was a default computer code in cases where a driving licence number was provided and a passport number was not needed. It just, in effect, fills in a missing line on a computerised form

2.  A reasonable explanation for Gerry McCann using his Queniborough address when hiring the car is that he had not yet obtained an updated driving licence with his new address. We do not therefore really need to pursue that matter further. The whole world knew by 27 May that Gerry McCann lived in Rothley. The Budget Car Rentals receptionist probably simply entered the address given on the driving licence.     

Returning to 'Murat's lies', I have a number of times on the forum drawn attention to the scale of lying by Robert Murat when first questioned by the PJ on 14 May. Eight weeks later, on 10 & 11 July, he was re-interviewed by police, and by this time the PJ had obtained and analysed his mobile 'phone pings. He was trapped. Indeed, he asked for a break in the interrogation when the police confronted him with a map showing where his mobile 'phone had 'pinged' the local radio mast antennae. He further claimed that he was 'too tired to tell the truth' when he was first asked to account for his movements on 1, 2, 3 and 4 May.

I have not usually added my conclusions to the passage I wrote about Murat's lies. This time I will, and I draw special attention to the items in red below:

++++++++++
      
I.  A summary of Murat’s 17 changes of story about what he did on 1, 2, 3 and 4 May

You may by now have lost count of the number of changes in Robert Murat’s story about what he was doing between 1 and 4 May, so here’s a convenient summary of his new account of events, and how these contradicted his earlier account of events:

1.     Remembers that on 1 May he tried to contact Jorge da Silva.
2.     Remembers that on 2 May he didn’t leave home at 10.30am but instead had a meeting with Sergei Malinka at the Batista Supermarket.
3.     He had in fact taken Michaela and Malinka back to his mother’s house in Praia da Luz for a further discussion, something he’d omitted to tell the police in the first interview.
4.     He now remembered visiting his bank and paying in 287.51 euros.
5.     He now remembered he’d called at the home of Francisco Pagarete, his lawyer, that morning.
6.     He now remembers that he had met Francisco Pagarete that afternoon.
7.     He now remembers that another of Jorge’s sons was present at their meeting in the café in the afternoon.
8.     The meeting in the café went on much longer than he had said previously.
9.     He thinks that Michaela Walczuk’s husband Luis Antonio may not have been present at Michaela’s house that evening, contrary to what he had previously said.
10.             On 3 May, he had not woken at 9.00am as previously stated, but at 8.00am.
11.             He had not driven to Michaela’s house that morning after 10.00am as previously stated; instead he had left home at 8.45am for a 9.30am meeting with the owner of the business tourist complex called ‘Gold Bunker’ in the Espiche district and her father-in-law.
12.             He now remembered that he and Michaela had visited two apartments for about 30 minutes, probably on the afternoon of 3 May.
13.             He and Michaela had lunch with the owner of the ‘Gold Bunker’ complex and her father-in-law, a fact he had not disclosed to police before.
14.             Michaela’s daughter C______ was not with them that day, contrary to his previous story.
15.             They went to the Palmares Golf Club in the afternoon, another fact Murat had failed to disclose.
16.             He now admitted to making two telephone calls, to Sergei Malinka and Michaela, at 11.39pm and 11.40pm that night.
17.             He previously said he had woken at 9.00am on Friday 4 May. He now admitted he had telephoned Michaela at 8.27am and must have got up earlier.

A possible interpretation of these changes of story could be along these lines; namely that during his first statement, Murat did not want to admit to:

·        meeting with Sergei Malinka at the Batista supermarket on 2 May at around 10.00am

·        he and Michaela being in the Espiche/Almádena area at around 9.30am on 3 May

·        his meeting with the owner of the ‘Gold Bunker’ complex

·        he, Michaela and the da Silvas being at the Palmares Golf Club on the afternoon of 3 May

·        that he had visited two apartments on the afternoon of 3 May.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Tony Bennett 22.02.14 21:50

Ollie wrote: Was Murat a consenting patsy knowing that the PJ would have nothing on him?
An interesting and very important question.

The following events may be clues as to the answer:

1. Various top intelligence experts and 'criminal profilers' from the British security services telling Goncalo Amaral's men, in the first few days after Madeleine was reported missing, that Robert Murat fitted the likely profile of the abductor '90%'. It is clear from Dr Amaral's book that he took this 'information' into account in deciding to arrest Murat

2. Jane Tanner identifying Murat as the person she said she'd seen carrying a child at 9.15pm on Thursday 3 May. She did (on 14 May) this after being interviewed by Control Risks Group (who may have been brought in by the British government), and after also speaking to Det Supt Bob Small from Leicestershire Police. Months later, she said it was not Murat after all - and then even tried to deny ever having identified him. There is a convoluted account of why Jane Tanner identified Robert Murat on pages 134 and 135 of the hardback version of 'madeleine', by Kate McCann. It contradicts Dr Amaral's account, in his book, of how Jane Tanner identified Murat. 

3. Three members of the 'Tapas 9', namely Fiona Payne, Rachael Oldfield and Russell O'Brien, claimed on the very day after Jane Tanner had picked out Murat in an informal identity parade, that they had all seen Robert Murat 'hanging around the Ocean Club' on the evening of 3 May. This had the hallmarks of a co-ordinated attempt to make Murat the prime suspect. It succeeded.  Months later, they all changed their minds. The British press helpfully published carefully selected pictures of Murat looking similar to David Payne and Angus Symington.

4. The meeting on 13 November 2007 between Brian Kennedy, his lawyer Edward Smethurst, Robert Murat, and his lawyer, Franisco Pagarete.

These other points cannot be ignored either:

* Murat's rush out to Praia da Luz early on the morning of 1 May. Why?
* His movements 1 to 3 May
* His being in the right place at the right time to translate a very large number of first interviews
* His conduct whilst acting as a translator: trying to read secret police documents, and suggesting several lines of enquiry to the police. His conduct was so strange and unprofessional for a translator that a police inspector made a special report about it to Dr Amaral.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by tigger 23.02.14 11:49

Article below interesting in many ways. Especially since the PJ wanted to search Rothley Towers. However, putting it in the car topic because of the tracking device.

police are bugging our phone calls and emails'
By DAN NEWLING
Last updated at 12:14 20 September 2007

Kate and Gerry McCann are convinced they are being bugged by British police.

They believe their mobile phone calls and emails are being monitored by detectives collecting evidence on behalf of the Portuguese investigation.

As a result they and some of their friends and supporters go to great lengths to avoid being overheard when they are discussing sensitive issues in the case of missing Madeleine, meetforing face-to-face or talking on landlines which they believe to be harder to intercept.

Surveillance targets? Gerry and Kate McCann, pictured yesterday, are being ultra cautious about their conversations, say friends.

Their suspicions were first aroused by questions they were asked by Portuguese police which were based on information that could only have come from private conversations.

During lengthy interviews when they were first made suspects, they were asked questions which implied they had conspired during mobile phone conversations to hide who was at the dinner party - and when - on the night that Madeleine disappeared.

They are also thought to have been asked why the toddler's Cuddle Cat toy was washed twice - information that could well have come from surveillance of phone calls.

Although the couple have been back home in Rothley, Leicestershire, for 12 days, they fear the practice is continuing. A source close to the family said:

"The assumption is that it is taking place. Everyone involved is very careful, particularly with their mobile phone calls and what they say.

"There was an assumption from the early days that their mobile communications were unsafe and could be listened to.

"They believed it in Portugal and they believe that is still happening now that they are back home.
"Gerry will often refuse to talk on a mobile phone - he prefers to use landlines as he considers that they are safer. They feel they are being watched at all times."

The source added: "It would be entirely wrong to say that their phone conversations are in any way furtive as a result of this.
'"
"They are entirely innocent and have nothing whatsoever to hide - but they are being understandably cautious about what they say on the phone and in emails.

"They would obviously not want to disclose the way in which they plan to conduct their defence."

Leicestershire police yesterday refused to comment on the allegation.

But a senior police source said: "It is highly likely to be happening. There would need to be high-level meetings before anything like this could be done.

"But if I were someone in Government I would have got it done anyway to make sure that we knew as much as possible, given that the case involves UK citizens."

Dr Russell O'Brien and Jane Tanner, who were both on holiday with the McCanns, have spoken to friends of their belief that their phones were tapped in Portugal.

Portuguese detectives have reportedly admitted monitoring the emails of Robert Murat, the British expat in Praia da Luz who became the first suspect in the case.

However, this is the first time that anyone involved in the case has claimed the practice is taking place in Britain. A spokesman for the McCanns refused to comment.

? Police fitted a tracking device to the McCanns' hire car, it was claimed last night, to monitor their precise movements in the days after they came under suspicion.

A gadget the size of a wallet is capable of transmitting a signal to satellites - like a Sat Nav system in reverse - enabling police to watch where the couple go.

It is claimed the device was installed in the Renault Scenic during the 48 hours the police had the car in early August to gather forensic samples. It could have been placed in the boot or attached using a magnet under the bonnet.

It explains why detectives returned the hire car to the McCanns after their tests rather than impounding it.

"The police are not fools - they did not give the car back without reason," said a Portuguese source with knowledge of the investigation.

"They wanted to see where it would go and would have used a tracking device."

? Portuguese detectives have taken a step closer to being able to search the McCann family home.

Policia Judiciaria detectives believe something inside the Leicestershire house could yield a vital clue and have sought approval from the judge in the case to ask British officers to carry out the raid.

Yesterday Judge Pedro Miguel dos Anjos Frias agreed to the request.

• Portuguese police would have needed to apply directly to the Home Office for permission to bug a UK citizen's telephone or emails.

They would have filed a Mutual Legal Assistance request, which is the only formal way for a foreign police force to obtain evidence from another country.

Providing that the request is legal under UK law - the relevant law in this case would have been the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act - the request would then be passed to the Home Secretary for final approval.

British police would also need Home Office permission to carry out telephone and computer taps.

Between January 2005 and March last year, the Home Office approved 440,000 requests for permission to intercept personal communications.

Most of these would be seeking telephone numbers one particular phone has called. Only a very small proportion would have been for permission to listen in on a call or read an email.



Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Post by HelenMeg 23.02.14 12:08

Tony Bennett wrote:
Ollie wrote: Was Murat a consenting patsy knowing that the PJ would have nothing on him?
An interesting and very important question.

The following events may be clues as to the answer:

1. Various top intelligence experts and 'criminal profilers' from the British security services telling Goncalo Amaral's men, in the first few days after Madeleine was reported missing, that Robert Murat fitted the likely profile of the abductor '90%'. It is clear from Dr Amaral's book that he took this 'information' into account in deciding to arrest Murat

2. Jane Tanner identifying Murat as the person she said she'd seen carrying a child at 9.15pm on Thursday 3 May. She did (on 14 May) this after being interviewed by Control Risks Group (who may have been brought in by the British government), and after also speaking to Det Supt Bob Small from Leicestershire Police. Months later, she said it was not Murat after all - and then even tried to deny ever having identified him. There is a convoluted account of why Jane Tanner identified Robert Murat on pages 134 and 135 of the hardback version of 'madeleine', by Kate McCann. It contradicts Dr Amaral's account, in his book, of how Jane Tanner identified Murat. 

3. Three members of the 'Tapas 9', namely Fiona Payne, Rachael Oldfield and Russell O'Brien, claimed on the very day after Jane Tanner had picked out Murat in an informal identity parade, that they had all seen Robert Murat 'hanging around the Ocean Club' on the evening of 3 May. This had the hallmarks of a co-ordinated attempt to make Murat the prime suspect. It succeeded.  Months later, they all changed their minds. The British press helpfully published carefully selected pictures of Murat looking similar to David Payne and Angus Symington.

4. The meeting on 13 November 2007 between Brian Kennedy, his lawyer Edward Smethurst, Robert Murat, and his lawyer, Franisco Pagarete.

These other points cannot be ignored either:

* Murat's rush out to Praia da Luz early on the morning of 1 May. Why?
* His movements 1 to 3 May
* His being in the right place at the right time to translate a very large number of first interviews
* His conduct whilst acting as a translator: trying to read secret police documents, and suggesting several lines of enquiry to the police. His conduct was so strange and unprofessional for a translator that a police inspector made a special report about it to Dr Amaral.
In the position they all found themselves in, it would have been useful and sensible to 'point the finger' at RM, if only to divert attention for a while. I 'm not sure whether he had to be 'consenting' or they did it regardless of whether he consented. Interesting to analyze what else was going on  at the time and how useful it was at that particular point in time to divert the PJ's attention.  In the theory that I subscribe to, RM was  a co-ordinator of events that week at the OC, having many useful contacts, and was also the link to SM. Hence, by pointing the finger at RM, they knew that he had too much to hide, and was ideal to be used as a suspect. However, the longer it went on RM would have become slightly anxious and started to make noises. This is certainly a very interesting line of thought.
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