Re: Could Maddie be in the garden of Casa Liliana?

by ShuBob 17.10.12 11:23

candyfloss wrote:[..]

The other has been asked and asked, where did the DNA come from? Surely, if anyone was going to plant evidence they would plant it in the most relevant place. It would lead to all sorts of problems trying to prove how it got there so long after the fact in any case?? Police cannot just say there was evidence there, they have to prove how it was possible that it came to be there.

Give it time, Candyfloss. It won't be long now before the claim is made that it was Amaral himself who buried the body in Murat's yard!

by annabel 17.10.12 11:24

Pat Brown/Stephen Birch

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by ShuBob 17.10.12 11:26

annabel wrote:Pat Brown/Stephen Birch

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The article is dated 14 July 2012.

I wonder if she's said anything more recently.

by Woofer 17.10.12 11:27

Tony Bennett wrote:
Stephen Birch wrote:If Mr Amaral knew or was party to the DNA planting, I cannot help him with that.
Why is this poster still allowed to post here?

Tony, I`m surprised at you - I would have thought you were the last person to censor opinion.

by david_uk 17.10.12 11:27

Tony Bennett wrote:
Stephen Birch wrote:If Mr Amaral knew or was party to the DNA planting, I cannot help him with that.
Why is this poster still allowed to post here?

Couldn't agree more. This is ridiculous and is taking away from all the hard work that people like the forum owners and contributors have put into this `mystery`.

by **PeterMac** 17.10.12 11:29

There is no point in discussing it.
Dig, and let the world know the result.

by Liz Eagles 17.10.12 11:30

ShuBob wrote:
candyfloss wrote:[..]

The other has been asked and asked, where did the DNA come from? Surely, if anyone was going to plant evidence they would plant it in the most relevant place. It would lead to all sorts of problems trying to prove how it got there so long after the fact in any case?? Police cannot just say there was evidence there, they have to prove how it was possible that it came to be there.

Give it time, Candyfloss. It won't be long now before the claim is made that it was Amaral himself who buried the body in Murat's yard!

would that be Goncalo or Goncarlo? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by ShuBob 17.10.12 11:32

aquila wrote:
ShuBob wrote:
candyfloss wrote:[..]

The other has been asked and asked, where did the DNA come from? Surely, if anyone was going to plant evidence they would plant it in the most relevant place. It would lead to all sorts of problems trying to prove how it got there so long after the fact in any case?? Police cannot just say there was evidence there, they have to prove how it was possible that it came to be there.

Give it time, Candyfloss. It won't be long now before the claim is made that it was Amaral himself who buried the body in Murat's yard!

would that be Goncalo or Goncarlo? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Any variation will do [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by winjoy 17.10.12 11:32

PeterMac wrote:There is no point in discussing it.
Dig, and let the world know the result.

Quite agree. The discussion is going nowhere - other than probably banning Mr Birch.

by david_uk 17.10.12 11:33

Stephen Birch wrote:The Mc Canns "DO NOT, NOT support the dig"

If you like, I,ll withdraw from answering questions, and making my findings known to Forum members.

Do not want to impose.

good idea

by Stephen Birch 17.10.12 11:37

Soil conditions and photos of excavations undertaken at various places in Praia da Luz were emailed to me in South Africa, prior to my departure to Praia da Luz Portugal. An analysis of the photos and various subsoil conditions, depicted in the Praia da luz photos, showed that the ground was similar to conditions in South Africa known as "coffee clip". A hard gravel type shale with stones between sand. At night when digging under these soil conditions, sparks can be seen coming off the end of the spade. The stones between the sand in Praia da luz are 25 % larger than that experienced in similar conditions in South Africa.It makes for hard digging.

A test was undertaken in SA under film, to see how deep a hole could be dug in 15 minutes under these soil conditions. After 15 minutes the hole was 450 mm deep, and could accomodate a small child.

It took a further 5 minutes to place a live size doll in a tennis bag and bury it. This included filling the hole with sand, compacting the ground by stamping on it. At the end of the exercise, the tennis bag was completely buried.

The body was recovered at approximately 650mm in the Murat yard. We therefore can assume that the driveway thickness and garden topsoil amount to 200mm.

by **Tony Bennett** 17.10.12 11:45

Stephen Birch wrote:Mr Bennett, read what Pat Brown says about me. We may agree to disagree, but lets give each other the courtesy of tabling our findings at the appropiate time, in the appropiate quorum.

I can assure this forum, that I am doing everything possible to ensure that the dig occurs...

Malapropism spotted.

by david_uk 17.10.12 11:46

Stephen Birch wrote:Soil conditions and photos of excavations undertaken at various places in Praia da Luz were emailed to me in South Africa, prior to my departure to Praia da Luz Portugal. An analysis of the photos and various subsoil conditions, depicted in the Praia da luz photos, showed that the ground was similar to conditions in South Africa known as "coffee clip". A hard gravel type shale with stones between sand. At night when digging under these soil conditions, sparks can be seen coming off the end of the spade. The stones between the sand in Praia da luz are 25 % larger than that experienced in similar conditions in South Africa.It makes for hard digging.

A test was undertaken in SA under film, to see how deep a hole could be dug in 15 minutes under these soil conditions. After 15 minutes the hole was 450 mm deep, and could accomodate a small child.

It took a further 5 minutes to place a live size doll in a tennis bag and bury it. This included filling the hole with sand, compacting the ground by stamping on it. At the end of the exercise, the tennis bag was completely buried.

The body was recovered at approximately 650mm in the Murat yard. We therefore can assume that the driveway thickness and garden topsoil amount to 200mm.

450mm!!!!! huh

by **tigger** 17.10.12 11:48

Stephen Birch wrote:"NO" make of ground penetrating radar equipment in the world, can scan sub-surface ground conditions under a pile of building rubble, with a wooden plank on top of it.

See photos in article below.

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remember the pile of building rubble was removed in 2008, and the driveway constructed over Madeleine Mc Cann

So:
the pile of building rubble had been there since or before teh 3rd of May 2007. Slow workers! A pile of building rubble would have been left alone by the PJ at the time they did their extensive survey and search of Casa Liliana.
Their survey found the foundations of a Roman villa, but obviously left a pile of building rubble (couldn't possibly have anything to do with a newly dug grave - brilliant hiding place!) alone.
Actually, you'll be pleased to hear that quite a few GPR systems manage a plank and a pile of rubble quite well.
You might have done better to read some of the scientific journals. Here is the remit of one of the groups affiliated to the Geological Society:

Aims
To advance, encourage and support the study and practice of near-surface geophysics, predominantly restricted to depths of investigation down to 500m. Areas of application include hydrogeology, engineering, archaeology, forensic science, environmental investigations and monitoring, mineral exploration, hazard assessment and geological mapping.

There is no need to dig - I could post any number of such images, just lift them from any GPR article. Why were 'several' experts needed to interpret that as a grave? and @ Tony and Bobbin, I don't know why this person is still allowed to post.

by **Tony Bennett** 17.10.12 11:51

Woofer wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Stephen Birch wrote:If Mr Amaral knew or was party to the DNA planting, I cannot help him with that.
Why is this poster still allowed to post here?

Tony, I`m surprised at you - I would have thought you were the last person to censor opinion.

Trolls, con-men and fraudsters have opinions, but these may detract from the overall purpose of the forum, especially since, in this particular case, 'Stephen Birch' posts such manifest garbage.

by david_uk 17.10.12 11:53

This feels like Daniel Krugel 2.0 , and perhaps it should pigeon holed into the appropriate section of possible theories! hmmmm.. which one of the Mccanns mail piles should this be thrown into!!. big grin

by ShuBob 17.10.12 11:54

I've said it before and I'll say it again, SB has gotten away with a whole lot more than other posters who've been shown the door. Where is the line drawn?

by Liz Eagles 17.10.12 11:59

Tony Bennett wrote:
Stephen Birch wrote:Mr Bennett, read what Pat Brown says about me. We may agree to disagree, but lets give each other the courtesy of tabling our findings at the appropiate time, in the appropiate quorum.

I can assure this forum, that I am doing everything possible to ensure that the dig occurs...
Malapropism spotted.

He's side-swiping now TB! it's just too ridiculous. Please Admin get SB off this forum.

by Stephen Birch 17.10.12 12:01

The area where we undertook the test was on a farm near Stellenbosch, Cape Town. It was on top of a hill where no topsoil existed. So when we dug, we went straight into coffee clip/stony ground sand - resulting in a 450mm deep hole being dug in 15 minutes.

Initially in 2007 when the digging occurred in the Murat garden, the digger had to first dig through a layer of 150 -200mm of "soft" topsoil, and then through a layer of hard coffee clip/stoney layer below it.

It is always customary that when building a driveway, the soft topsoil is removed, and the driveway constructed ontop of the hard "coffee clip", also known as hard subbase material.

The word "Clip" is Afrikaans for stone

by Stephen Birch 17.10.12 12:04

Ground penetrating equipment cannot scan over building rubble. Watch video. See link below.

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by **tigger** 17.10.12 12:04

- and that is relevant how?

by ShuBob 17.10.12 12:05

aquila wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
Stephen Birch wrote:Mr Bennett, read what Pat Brown says about me. We may agree to disagree, but lets give each other the courtesy of tabling our findings at the appropiate time, in the appropiate quorum.

I can assure this forum, that I am doing everything possible to ensure that the dig occurs...
Malapropism spotted.

He's side-swiping now TB! it's just too ridiculous. Please Admin get SB off this forum.

His posts have initiated a lot of debate so on that note alone, I think he should stay as long as he doesn't libel anyone. My concern is why others who some of us also view as trolls/charlatans are shown the door pretty sharpish? The rules should be fair for all. Just because he has managed to get media attention doesn't make him any more deserving of being here than the next poster IMO.

by david_uk 17.10.12 12:05

Certain opposition forums are having a field day with our entertaining of this nonsense!!..........

by **tigger** 17.10.12 12:05

Stephen Birch wrote:Ground penetrating equipment cannot scan over building rubble. Watch video. See link below.

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You should inform the Geological Society immediately in that case.
spit coffee

I've just watched the video. building rubble isn't mentioned.

Desist, I've an urgent appointment to play tiddlywinks, a better use of my time.

by Guest 17.10.12 12:07

I think perhaps the best thing would be is for you Mr Birch to stop this, and come back when you have actual confirmation there is going to be a dig. We are going round in circles here. Some members want you here and discuss, others don't. It is causing disruption with people disagreeing as to whether you should be here or not.

So I suggest that is what you do. Only post when you can inform us of a dig, or if there is going to be any relevant info in the press.