Re: McCanns Easter break Donegal 2007

by chillyheat 12.11.13 20:34

Portia wrote:Andy, are you here with us?

Kevin?

Any sense of history?

Perhaps they are watching the 90 degree sunglasses switch thread...... laughat

by Daisy 12.11.13 21:36

I'd only briefly considered the IRA angle before and quickly dismissed it because it felt too far-fetched even for me. Saying that I'm sure most of us believe there's something pretty big and so - far unexplained behind this case. So you guys have piqued my interest and I'm beginning to wonder.

Jeez... St Johnston doesn't sound like too nice a place to me. By all accounts Joe People's has had his (McCann) Pub broken into on no less then 12 occasions. Then I read:

"September 2008 The RIRA shoot a man in the neck in St Johnston, near the Derry border. The same man was targeted in a pipe bomb attack on his home on 25 October."

And to top it all, someone earlier (sorry forgot who but thank you) gave a link to a shocking story of a dog being killed in St Johnston in 2012; ( note the name Peoples again) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Now all this wouldn't sound so strange but if these statistics are true then that's an awful lot going on for such a sparsely populated little Town that the McCann's love to visit.

[th]Population (2011)^[1][/th][th] • Urban[/th]

583

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by MissDaisy 13.11.13 9:17

The following is a comment posted on the Textusa blog in response to the post "Just a clarification", 23 April, 2010.
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Anonymous 23 April 2010 20:34:00
In my opinion, Jim Gamble was not looking for photos of possible abductors. He was looking for photos that could have identified MI5 operatives.
There is a trial scheduled to take place this month (April 2010) in regard to the Real IRA activities in the Algarve.
It may not have to do with that case, however, I do believe that it was MI5 enlisted to help the McCanns immediately, and IMO they were likely brought in prior to May 3rd (as I believe Maddie was either injured or died on the night Mrs. Fenn heard the crying.)
Jim Gamble was not acting in his role as head of CEOP, again IMO. He was acting on behalf of the informers and agents he had worked with in his previous job.When Kate said "they've taken her", it implied she knew the people - otherwise she would have said "someone has taken Maddie".

She knew that more than one person was involved and she knew at least the general ID of those people.I think Kate was aware help had been brought in, but not aware that Maddie was going to be removed from the room when she was.

by MissDaisy 13.11.13 9:58

Thinking out loud here but I wonder if Dave Edgar, formerly of the RUC, knew Jim Gamble, former Head of RUC special branch.

by View-from-Ireland 13.11.13 10:10

I honestly cannot believe where this thread is headed.

Talk about 2+2=5.

And the hair issue, as in Irish people and red hair, raised by Portia I think? Next you will be telling me Hitler wasn't blonde haired and blue-eyed. Seriously.....

As for IRA or Sinn Féin connections, just to show you how unlikely they are. In the Republic of Ireland Sinn Féin won its first seat in the Irish parliament since the 1920s (when it wasn't even the same party) in 1997. In 2002 they won five seats (out of 166) and something similar in 2007. In 2011, in the eye of the biggest economic crash the Irish state has faced since independence in 1922, Sinn Féin could only muster 13 seats as the governing party slumped from 77 seats to 19! Granted, since 2011 Sinn Féin have two seats in Donegal (out of six), but what I am trying to get at is that even after the peace process, even after decommissioning, even after Sinn Féin has spent fifteen years trying to put a respectable face forward they still, and they are the acceptable face of that whole element, cannot make any sort of breakthrough in the Republic of Ireland.

As for the dissidents!!! Have you any idea how much of a fringe organisation you are talking about? I mean, fringe!! I'd safely say there are probably much less than two thousand individuals across the whole island, north and south, who even identify with dissident republicans let alone be active dissident republicans.

So it is just a huge leap of the imagination to be linking somebody like Gerry McCann to 'Real IRA' or whatever and is inf act absolute nonsense. You could pick 100 random individuals in a republican area and not find a dissident so how you can link the son of a Scottish immigrant to them is just beyond words.

by MissDaisy 13.11.13 10:26

Hi A view from Ireland, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and fair enough if you think this is far fetched I have at times too.
Regardless of the McCann case, the Real IRA in the Algarve have been taken seriously enough by MI5 for them to mount an intelligence operation throughout the 2000s, you can read all about the court cases and newspaper articles here. http://alvornewswinnowed.blogspot.co.uk
The Real IRA might be a dissident group but crime is still a very profitable business.

by MissDaisy 13.11.13 10:43

View-from-Ireland wrote:You could pick 100 random individuals in a republican area and not find a dissident so how you can link the son of a Scottish immigrant to them is just beyond words.

Liam McGinley (supplied information in relation to the murder of Denis Donaldson) was born in Scotland to parents from Donegal. Coincidentally, he was living in St Johnston.

by Guest 13.11.13 10:52

MissDaisy wrote:Hi A view from Ireland, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and fair enough if you think this is far fetched I have at times too.
Regardless of the McCann case, the Real IRA in the Algarve have been taken seriously enough by MI5 for them to mount an intelligence operation throughout the 2000s, you can read all about the court cases and newspaper articles here. http://alvornewswinnowed.blogspot.co.uk
The Real IRA might be a dissident group but crime is still a very profitable business.

Frankly if I was MI5, I'd quite like to mount an operation in the Algarve too. I bet they weren't short of volunteers for that posting. Didn't SY say that the MM innvestigation should be broadened to "wherever people go on holiday"?

by Nereid 13.11.13 10:54

A bit more about Joseph Peoples:

24.06.09

A St Johnston publican who was caught drink driving while he was already serving a driving ban received a six year disqualification at a recent sitting of Letterkenny District Court.
The court heard Garda Patrick Gerraghty stopped 65-year Joseph Peoples of Kinnycally, St Johnston on the town’s Main Street on March 31. A subsequent test confirmed he was over the legal limit at the time.

Solicitor, Niall Sheridan, told the court his client “took a chance” as he was fearful of walking home at night.

He stated People’s business had not been going well and there were a number of break-ins during one of which he was assaulted and was since living in fear.

“My client has since been very frightened of walking on the street at night. He has no more confidence and the normal procedure was that someone would pick him up,” he explained.

“He took a chance on the night in question and drove the mile home. The family have since sold his car so there is no prospect of re-offending,” said Mr Sheridan.

Judge Kevin Kilrane disqualified Peoples from driving for six years and fined him €1,000.

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14.09.09

A St Johnston publican was convicted at Letterkenny District Court for trading without a licence.
Joseph Peoples of Main Street, St. Johnston was charged with allowing the sale of liquor at his premise at the same address on September 27 last year.

Solicitor Niall Sheridan entered a guilty plea on behalf of his client saying he had “bad health” recently.

Judge Kevin Kilrane fined him €633

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by MissDaisy 13.11.13 11:03

To quote from one of the above articles -
"He stated People’s business had not been going well and there were a number of break-ins during one of which he was assaulted and was since living in fear.

“My client has since been very frightened of walking on the street at night. He has no more confidence and the normal procedure was that someone would pick him up,” he explained."

Sounds like he was the victim of some intimidation tactics.

by Guest 13.11.13 11:05

It would be interesting to know if there is a high crime rate generally in such a small place.

by MissDaisy 13.11.13 11:09

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It would be interesting to know if there is a high crime rate generally in such a small place.

I doubt it...

by Daisy 13.11.13 11:53

The crime rate does seem to be particularly high for such a small town. If those Wiki stats are right St Johnston has a population of just 583. Yet so much going on.

Thanks for those links Nereid, not come across them before.

Things certainly seem to have gone downhill for Mr Peoples since he spoke out in favour of the McCann's. I wonder if he rues the day he got involved. And, if that poor dog that was slaughtered did belong to his family... well, things have turned pretty nasty.

by Guest 13.11.13 12:05

Daisy wrote:The crime rate does seem to be particularly high for such a small town. If those Wiki stats are right St Johnston has a population of just 583. Yet so much going on.

Thanks for those links Nereid, not come across them before.

Things certainly seem to have gone downhill for Mr Peoples since he spoke out in favour of the McCann's. I wonder if he rues the day he got involved. And, if that poor dog that was slaughtered did belong to his family... well, things have turned pretty nasty.

GAs dog was slaughtered as well, but that aside

When did mr Peoples speak up for the McCanns? How were they connected?

by Guest 13.11.13 12:06

View-from-Ireland wrote:I honestly cannot believe where this thread is headed.

Talk about 2+2=5.

And the hair issue, as in Irish people and red hair, raised by Portia I think? Next you will be telling me Hitler wasn't blonde haired and blue-eyed. Seriously.....

As for IRA or Sinn Féin connections, just to show you how unlikely they are. In the Republic of Ireland Sinn Féin won its first seat in the Irish parliament since the 1920s (when it wasn't even the same party) in 1997. In 2002 they won five seats (out of 166) and something similar in 2007. In 2011, in the eye of the biggest economic crash the Irish state has faced since independence in 1922, Sinn Féin could only muster 13 seats as the governing party slumped from 77 seats to 19! Granted, since 2011 Sinn Féin have two seats in Donegal (out of six), but what I am trying to get at is that even after the peace process, even after decommissioning, even after Sinn Féin has spent fifteen years trying to put a respectable face forward they still, and they are the acceptable face of that whole element, cannot make any sort of breakthrough in the Republic of Ireland.

As for the dissidents!!! Have you any idea how much of a fringe organisation you are talking about? I mean, fringe!! I'd safely say there are probably much less than two thousand individuals across the whole island, north and south, who even identify with dissident republicans let alone be active dissident republicans.

So it is just a huge leap of the imagination to be linking somebody like Gerry McCann to 'Real IRA' or whatever and is inf act absolute nonsense. You could pick 100 random individuals in a republican area and not find a dissident so how you can link the son of a Scottish immigrant to them is just beyond words.

Thank you for your comments

I'm not purporting GM is or has been IRA, real or not
I'm just wondering why he dyes his red hair black

by MrsC 13.11.13 12:08

'I'm just wondering why he dyes his red hair black'

Vanity? Red hair is not considered attractive to many people in the UK.

by Nereid 13.11.13 12:09

Daisy wrote:The crime rate does seem to be particularly high for such a small town. If those Wiki stats are right St Johnston has a population of just 583. Yet so much going on.

Thanks for those links Nereid, not come across them before.

Things certainly seem to have gone downhill for Mr Peoples since he spoke out in favour of the McCann's. I wonder if he rues the day he got involved. And, if that poor dog that was slaughtered did belong to his family... well, things have turned pretty nasty.

How long do people hold grudges for I wonder. I won't quote as it's very long and probably not of importance.

There there was a (lengthy) parliamentary debate about a part-time postman's position.
To recap: the post was promised to a father of 4 children, but was then given to Joseph Peoples who was a 18 y/o lad at the time. This was in 1962, seems a very long time ago.

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by Guest 13.11.13 12:18

MrsC wrote:'I'm just wondering why he dyes his red hair black'

Vanity? Red hair is not considered attractive to many people in the UK.

Mwah; there is this devilishly handsome actor who first portrayed Soames Gallsworthy in the most recent series on BBC, IIRC

Then we have James Hewitt

Then we have Queen Elisabeth I

Then we have…

Even my cat is a redhead!

Redheads do have something special and are likable creatures, so why would people in the UK not like them?

And who would dye red hair black, in order to be liked?

I'd purport you sooner dye your hair for camouflage, in order not to be seen as you were before, not to be so recognizable. Just my opinion

by Guest 13.11.13 12:48

Portia: I think that Daisy is referring to quotes from Joe Peoples backing up reports that the McCanns actually appear in Donegal from time to time.

Here's a recent one.

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There do not appear to be any other independent (?) witnesses.

by MrsC 13.11.13 12:49

Portia wrote:
MrsC wrote:'I'm just wondering why he dyes his red hair black'

Vanity? Red hair is not considered attractive to many people in the UK.
Redheads do have something special and are likable creatures, so why would people in the UK not like them?

And who would dye red hair black, in order to be liked?

I'd purport you sooner dye your hair for camouflage, in order not to be seen as you were before, not to be so recognizable. Just my opinion

It's not that they are unliked because of the colour of their hair, it's a jokey thing. Redheads often have to put up with 'micky taking': having the pee taken out of them. They are often called names like 'carrot top' 'ginge' 'rusty' 'ginger' with a hard G. It's often a form of bullying.

by Guest 13.11.13 12:55

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Portia: I think that Daisy is referring to quotes from Joe Peoples backing up reports that the McCanns actually appear in Donegal from time to time.

Here's a recent one.

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There do not appear to be any other independent (?) witnesses.

And Peoples a tennant of KH's mother at that

As an aside: a real nasty little piece of news there, with a farmer putting two naked men in a cage with an agitated boar. Funny way of convincing someone else, some people out there appear to have!

by Guest 13.11.13 13:00

From previous posts, there is some doubt whether Joe Peoples is a tenant of Eileen McCann.

Perhaps whoever it was who checked Irish Land Registry records will remember the details.

The McCanns left Ireland in 1967 - could they have retained ownership of the bar for so long?

by Daisy 13.11.13 13:17

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:From previous posts, there is some doubt whether Joe Peoples is a tenant of Eileen McCann.

Perhaps whoever it was who checked Irish Land Registry records will remember the details.

The McCanns left Ireland in 1967 - could they have retained ownership of the bar for so long?

I don't believe for one moment that Eileen Mccann ever owned this bar. If I remember correctly the Pub was only registered in 2009! (sure it was LadyHeather who found this info)

I also think Mr Peoples is either being seriously misquoted or he's suffering from dementia. This is another recent report quoting Mr Peoples:

"Three weeks before their family holiday, the McCann family had been enjoying their time in Dungloe. They left the Rosses and went to visit McCann’s pub in St. Johnston. Madeleine’s grandmother Eileen had leased the pub to Joe Peoples and they would often call into the friendly local publican. He enjoyed their brief visit because the McCann family had the children with them. He remembers Kate, Eileen and the children being in the pub but recalls that Gerry, Madeleine’s father was not with them on this occasion."

He also embellishes his original story with little snippets such as this:

“I remember Madeleine. She was a wee toddler. I told her to go in behind the counter for me and fix the bottles. She thought that this was great and she stood their fixing the bottles,” he said.

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by Guest 13.11.13 13:33

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There's a brief glimpse of the pub - such as it is - at about 4.50 in this clip from an Irish TV report 3 years ago.

It certainly must have existed for years before then so, if it was only registered in 2009, I don't know why that would be.

by Daisy 13.11.13 13:46

I have no idea either NFWTD. It's bizarre.

This is what I was referring to: (there's a brief discussion on pages 3-4 about it)

ype	Business Name
Number	380962
Name	JOE'S BAR
Address	MAIN STREET ST. JOHNSTON LIFFORD CO. DONEGAL
Registered	06/03/2009
Status	Normal Effective date: 06/03/2009

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