Re: McCanns Easter break Donegal 2007

by Guest 21.03.12 15:12

Spaniel wrote:Isn't that the skirt worn by the child ouside a door on the Stella thread?

Btw, the door could be a lift. See the circle above. Could that be the light to show when the lift arrives?

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Sorry to put it here but I'm not on the Stella thread.

Think you might have something there Spaniel on the lift.. Don't think the circle is a light - if you are referring to the two perfectly round holes at the top they are just holes punched into the paper for filing..

However, found this picture of a lift at Ocean Club which might be a good fit for the area the child is standing in front of on the slumber club thread.

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Having put the two photos together, it doesn't look like that specific lift but there may be others....

by Bridgiew 21.03.12 15:37

Jean wrote:It's becoming a common theme that the weather and other conditions at a certain time don't match the occasions when photos were taken. The most famous one is of course the supposed last photo at the poolside which appears to have been taken on a blazing hot day when the weather was actually cool. Then there is the one allegedly taken on the twins' second birthday (February 2007) but the flowers in the garden couldn't have been in bloom then.

Welcome Bridgiew. Do you have a link to confirm the temperatures in Donegal in early April 2007; that would be interesting.

I'm rubbish at links but I'm sure if you google Irish weather 2007 it would confirm that it was unseasonably hot in Ireland. When I Iooked at those pictures from Donegal, I went to look at pictures of my own children in April 2007 mine are wearing shorts and are, I'm ashamed to say, rather sunburnt. You would never forget 2 months of no rain, in Ireland!

by Guest 21.03.12 17:41

If I am reading this site correctly -

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the minimum and maximum temperatures were 41 and 51 degrees fahrenheit in April 2007.

by **tigger** 21.03.12 19:01

Jean wrote:If I am reading this site correctly -

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the minimum and maximum temperatures were 41 and 51 degrees fahrenheit in April 2007.

I make 41 F about 5 C which is very low.

by bobbin 21.03.12 21:01

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you can find April 2007, or go back on 'archives' and find 2006 etc. It was very sunny and some 3 degrees hotter than normal, whether this would put the children visiting for a short while into shorts, who knows.......ahh... Kate will know [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Lance De Boils 22.03.12 1:02

rainbow-fairy wrote:
Look4Maddy wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]"

SHe's just playing with her hands, like she's nervous maybe?
bristow wrote:In the second picture I have always thought Madeleines right wrist and lower arm looks wrong, bloated and deformed, maybe it's just the angle, not so sure though.

Yes, she is playing with her hands. BUT that hand is not right. The gap is way too long between thumb and finger - however, look closely at her 'arm' going up her sleeve - there appears to be no definable wrist and the arm is massively thick and wide.

In fact, to me, it looks like a really fat fake arm stuffed up her sleeve... there is an odd protrusion at about the level of her 'elbow' - can anyone else notice this or is it just me?

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Prosthetic arm? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 22.03.12 7:14

Lance De Boils wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:
Look4Maddy wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]"

SHe's just playing with her hands, like she's nervous maybe?
bristow wrote:In the second picture I have always thought Madeleines right wrist and lower arm looks wrong, bloated and deformed, maybe it's just the angle, not so sure though.

Yes, she is playing with her hands. BUT that hand is not right. The gap is way too long between thumb and finger - however, look closely at her 'arm' going up her sleeve - there appears to be no definable wrist and the arm is massively thick and wide.

In fact, to me, it looks like a really fat fake arm stuffed up her sleeve... there is an odd protrusion at about the level of her 'elbow' - can anyone else notice this or is it just me?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Prosthetic arm? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I really dont think that arm look odd. No problem to achive that gap when bending her finger like she does.. Taking in lighting, angle picture taken in and so on, and why on earth fake a hand into a picture? Either the whole girl is fake or real, not just her arm beeing fake..

In my eyes it looks perfectly normal, i work with photgraphing as a hobby, and oh my can pictures lie , we must not forget that also.. What we need to look for is proof of faking.. Discussing what we think about the look of the arm are nothing more than opinions, it proof nothing and gets us nowhere..

by rainbow-fairy 22.03.12 8:15

Moa wrote:
Lance De Boils wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:
Look4Maddy wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]"

SHe's just playing with her hands, like she's nervous maybe?
bristow wrote:In the second picture I have always thought Madeleines right wrist and lower arm looks wrong, bloated and deformed, maybe it's just the angle, not so sure though.

Yes, she is playing with her hands. BUT that hand is not right. The gap is way too long between thumb and finger - however, look closely at her 'arm' going up her sleeve - there appears to be no definable wrist and the arm is massively thick and wide.

In fact, to me, it looks like a really fat fake arm stuffed up her sleeve... there is an odd protrusion at about the level of her 'elbow' - can anyone else notice this or is it just me?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Prosthetic arm? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I really dont think that arm look odd. No problem to achive that gap when bending her finger like she does.. Taking in lighting, angle picture taken in and so on, and why on earth fake a hand into a picture? Either the whole girl is fake or real, not just her arm beeing fake..

In my eyes it looks perfectly normal, i work with photgraphing as a hobby, and oh my can pictures lie , we must not forget that also.. What we need to look for is proof of faking.. Discussing what we think about the look of the arm are nothing more than opinions, it proof nothing and gets us nowhere..

Why can the whole girl not be real but the arm a 'fake'? We weren't talking about photoshopping Moa, a 'prosthetic arm' isfake - say if a child has been born without a full limb or, say, lost it to meningitis.
I fail to see why looking for oddities will get us nowhere... Never forget her medical records were withheld - why? We are told she was this perfect, beautiful, vital child, but was she? She could've had any number of things wrong with her - which could've had a bearing on what was to happen... Imo of course.

by Guest 22.03.12 9:44

rainbow-fairy wrote:
Moa wrote:
Lance De Boils wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:
Look4Maddy wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]"

SHe's just playing with her hands, like she's nervous maybe?
bristow wrote:In the second picture I have always thought Madeleines right wrist and lower arm looks wrong, bloated and deformed, maybe it's just the angle, not so sure though.

Yes, she is playing with her hands. BUT that hand is not right. The gap is way too long between thumb and finger - however, look closely at her 'arm' going up her sleeve - there appears to be no definable wrist and the arm is massively thick and wide.

In fact, to me, it looks like a really fat fake arm stuffed up her sleeve... there is an odd protrusion at about the level of her 'elbow' - can anyone else notice this or is it just me?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Prosthetic arm? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I really dont think that arm look odd. No problem to achive that gap when bending her finger like she does.. Taking in lighting, angle picture taken in and so on, and why on earth fake a hand into a picture? Either the whole girl is fake or real, not just her arm beeing fake..

In my eyes it looks perfectly normal, i work with photgraphing as a hobby, and oh my can pictures lie , we must not forget that also.. What we need to look for is proof of faking.. Discussing what we think about the look of the arm are nothing more than opinions, it proof nothing and gets us nowhere..
Why can the whole girl not be real but the arm a 'fake'? We weren't talking about photoshopping Moa, a 'prosthetic arm' isfake - say if a child has been born without a full limb or, say, lost it to meningitis.
I fail to see why looking for oddities will get us nowhere... Never forget her medical records were withheld - why? We are told she was this perfect, beautiful, vital child, but was she? She could've had any number of things wrong with her - which could've had a bearing on what was to happen... Imo of course.

Oh my, well I dont believe it was a prostetic arm, and if why would they hide that? that just goes way beyond my beliefes as to what happened in this case... If it was a fake arm she wouldnt be able to bend her tumb like she does on that picture, and I guess they wouldnt have given her a fake arm with a bend thumb? So that means it has to be photoshoppen a real arm into this picture? Well I do not believe that at all !! Sounds just crazy to me lol And I dont think her medical records was witheld because she only had one arm? I think plenty of pictures can proof that that is not the case...

All parents describe theyr childs as perfect no matter how imperfect they are...

by rainbow-fairy 22.03.12 10:07

Moa wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:
Moa wrote:
Lance De Boils wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:
Look4Maddy wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]"

SHe's just playing with her hands, like she's nervous maybe?
bristow wrote:In the second picture I have always thought Madeleines right wrist and lower arm looks wrong, bloated and deformed, maybe it's just the angle, not so sure though.

Yes, she is playing with her hands. BUT that hand is not right. The gap is way too long between thumb and finger - however, look closely at her 'arm' going up her sleeve - there appears to be no definable wrist and the arm is massively thick and wide.

In fact, to me, it looks like a really fat fake arm stuffed up her sleeve... there is an odd protrusion at about the level of her 'elbow' - can anyone else notice this or is it just me?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Prosthetic arm? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I really dont think that arm look odd. No problem to achive that gap when bending her finger like she does.. Taking in lighting, angle picture taken in and so on, and why on earth fake a hand into a picture? Either the whole girl is fake or real, not just her arm beeing fake..

In my eyes it looks perfectly normal, i work with photgraphing as a hobby, and oh my can pictures lie , we must not forget that also.. What we need to look for is proof of faking.. Discussing what we think about the look of the arm are nothing more than opinions, it proof nothing and gets us nowhere..
Why can the whole girl not be real but the arm a 'fake'? We weren't talking about photoshopping Moa, a 'prosthetic arm' isfake - say if a child has been born without a full limb or, say, lost it to meningitis.
I fail to see why looking for oddities will get us nowhere... Never forget her medical records were withheld - why? We are told she was this perfect, beautiful, vital child, but was she? She could've had any number of things wrong with her - which could've had a bearing on what was to happen... Imo of course.

Oh my, well I dont believe it was a prostetic arm, and if why would they hide that? that just goes way beyond my beliefes as to what happened in this case... If it was a fake arm she wouldnt be able to bend her tumb like she does on that picture, and I guess they wouldnt have given her a fake arm with a bend thumb? So that means it has to be photoshoppen a real arm into this picture? Well I do not believe that at all !! Sounds just crazy to me lol And I dont think her medical records was witheld because she only had one arm? I think plenty of pictures can proof that that is not the case...

All parents describe theyr childs as perfect no matter how imperfect they are...

I didn't say her arm was prosthetic Moa, it was somebody else - I just stated it looks really wide, no discernible wrist and a strange 'lump' poking her sleeve out near where the elbow should be.
But, as you ask 'Why photoshop an arm?' I'll ask this -
Why photoshop in a coloboma that didn't exist?
OR, if it did exist, why now lie and say it 'was a barely discernible fleck, only noticed up close' - because those pictures with the noticeable defect in are VERY far from being a 'tiny fleck'

Just the coloboma issue in itself is enough to make me look very closely and very critically at every picture they release.
Also, how do you explain that the twins seem to grow ever younger as 'Maddie' grows older?
Maybe her arm was fine. Maybe it wasn't - but you can be darned sure those medical records were withheld for a reason - a very good reason...
As for that overtaking your beliefs of what happened, I don't have a clue what your beliefs are, Moa - I don't recall you ever saying and to be quite frank your stance on what you believe happened seems ambiguous at best.
I just don't think anything, however small, should be discounted off hand (no pun intended, honest) in a case like this.

by Lance De Boils 22.03.12 10:20

To be clear, I did not say I thought it actually was a prosthetic arm. I simply threw in a suggestion. To me, the hand and wrist area look very wrong. I have no idea why it should be that way - just that something appears to be wrong. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 22.03.12 10:21

rainbow-fairy wrote:
Moa wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:
Moa wrote:
Lance De Boils wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:
Look4Maddy wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]"

SHe's just playing with her hands, like she's nervous maybe?
bristow wrote:In the second picture I have always thought Madeleines right wrist and lower arm looks wrong, bloated and deformed, maybe it's just the angle, not so sure though.

Yes, she is playing with her hands. BUT that hand is not right. The gap is way too long between thumb and finger - however, look closely at her 'arm' going up her sleeve - there appears to be no definable wrist and the arm is massively thick and wide.

In fact, to me, it looks like a really fat fake arm stuffed up her sleeve... there is an odd protrusion at about the level of her 'elbow' - can anyone else notice this or is it just me?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Prosthetic arm? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I really dont think that arm look odd. No problem to achive that gap when bending her finger like she does.. Taking in lighting, angle picture taken in and so on, and why on earth fake a hand into a picture? Either the whole girl is fake or real, not just her arm beeing fake..

In my eyes it looks perfectly normal, i work with photgraphing as a hobby, and oh my can pictures lie , we must not forget that also.. What we need to look for is proof of faking.. Discussing what we think about the look of the arm are nothing more than opinions, it proof nothing and gets us nowhere..
Why can the whole girl not be real but the arm a 'fake'? We weren't talking about photoshopping Moa, a 'prosthetic arm' isfake - say if a child has been born without a full limb or, say, lost it to meningitis.
I fail to see why looking for oddities will get us nowhere... Never forget her medical records were withheld - why? We are told she was this perfect, beautiful, vital child, but was she? She could've had any number of things wrong with her - which could've had a bearing on what was to happen... Imo of course.

Oh my, well I dont believe it was a prostetic arm, and if why would they hide that? that just goes way beyond my beliefes as to what happened in this case... If it was a fake arm she wouldnt be able to bend her tumb like she does on that picture, and I guess they wouldnt have given her a fake arm with a bend thumb? So that means it has to be photoshoppen a real arm into this picture? Well I do not believe that at all !! Sounds just crazy to me lol And I dont think her medical records was witheld because she only had one arm? I think plenty of pictures can proof that that is not the case...

All parents describe theyr childs as perfect no matter how imperfect they are...
I didn't say her arm was prosthetic Moa, it was somebody else - I just stated it looks really wide, no discernible wrist and a strange 'lump' poking her sleeve out near where the elbow should be.
But, as you ask 'Why photoshop an arm?' I'll ask this -
Why photoshop in a coloboma that didn't exist?
OR, if it did exist, why now lie and say it 'was a barely discernible fleck, only noticed up close' - because those pictures with the noticeable defect is VERY far from being a 'tiny fleck'

Just the coloboma issue in itself is enough to make me look very closely and very critically at every picture they release.
Also, how do you explain that the twins seem to grow every younger as 'Maddie' grows older?
Maybe her arm was fine. Maybe it wasn't - but you can be darned sure those medical records were withheld for a reason - a very good reason...
As for that overtaking your beliefs of what happened, I don have a cue what your beliefs are, Moa - I don't recall you ever saying and to be quite frank your stance on what you believe happened seems ambiguous at best.
I just don't think anything, however small, should be discounted off hand (no pun intended, honest) in a case like this.

I can understand why they would photshop the coloboma, thats obviouse I think.. But the arm on this picture, I just think its real. I dont think this particulary pictures are tampered with... my beliefe are atleast a lot less complicated than other beliefes on this forum.. I think the answer is not so complicated, its proving it that is...

Ive seen people pointing out that they look older, older to what? I never saw the same as some said about this.. I think they look same, and the pictures are taken within a month of time if you refer to compare to the PDL pictures..? If not please show me what picture they look older or younger than compered to this Donegal picture..?

I mainly dont believe this D pictures to be fake or photoshopped, because that would mean the other children on that picture would know about it, and I personaly dont believe they are included in the secrets...

Ambigiouse - sorry English is not my first language so I dont know what that word mean ... My beliefe is my beliefe, and thats all it is....

by Guest 22.03.12 10:22

Lance De Boils wrote:To be clear, I did not say I thought it actually was a prosthetic arm. I simply threw in a suggestion. To me, the hand and wrist area look very wrong. I have no idea why it should be that way - just that something appears to be wrong. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I disagree, considering what shes doing with her hand , to me, it looks just like it should do when bending and playing with your thumb..

by Ribisl 23.03.12 0:55

I agree with you Moa. I don't see anything wrong with her hand or with this picture as a whole.
Btw did you read some posts pointing out that your avatar shows young Kate and not Madeleine?

by rainbow-fairy 23.03.12 7:24

Ribisl wrote:I agree with you Moa. I don't see anything wrong with her hand or with this picture as a whole.
Btw did you read some posts pointing out that your avatar shows young Kate and not Madeleine?

Naughty naughty, Ribisl. Obviously you have read them so surely your claim above should be 'BTW, did you seen some posts that believe your avatar picture to be Kate, not Madeleine'?
I know the posts you are referring to seeing as they are mine and tigger's. Nowhere did I state it WAS Kate. My post was clear enough about how I noticed it first etc etc. Its not fair to misrepresent our posts like that.
To recap, yes, even now when looking at the t-shirt picture of K+G and Moa's avatar I see a massive similarity. I spent much time zooming in on the pictures, every time I saw Moa post it was niggling at me, that mouth, teeth, cheeks, jaw...
Of course I'm probably waaay off the mark but I stand by what I see.
I assume you don't think so, Ribisl?

by **tigger** 23.03.12 7:33

Good morning Ribisl and RD!
No, I am pretty sure that Moa's avatar is Kate. The teeth alone tell the story, small gap in the middle, nowhere else. So definitely not Maddie.
A number of other pictures which I do not think are Maddie:
the second - blonder version of the Everton shirt, - smile confident and sure.
the sunglasses on the head photo - probably one of the other children
the crimped hair picture with the weird mouth, down-turned smile -
and of course Moa's avatar, for the confident smile alone I'd doubt it.
Maddie wasn't a confident happy girl and it shows in an awful lot of her photographs.

by Gillyspot 23.03.12 7:35

Lance De Boils wrote:To be clear, I did not say I thought it actually was a prosthetic arm. I simply threw in a suggestion. To me, the hand and wrist area look very wrong. I have no idea why it should be that way - just that something appears to be wrong. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Oh hello to the latest pro McCann troll to venture here. I hope you aren't trying to cause any trouble.

Lance Boyle @BoyleLance
@JillyCL @DodgyDrPayne Mmmm you must definitely be the black sheep then BAAAAAAAAAA pmsl Bring back fantasy islnd is all I can say #mccann

by rainbow-fairy 23.03.12 8:29

tigger wrote:Good morning Ribisl and RD!
No, I am pretty sure that Moa's avatar is Kate. The teeth alone tell the story, small gap in the middle, nowhere else. So definitely not Maddie.
A number of other pictures which I do not think are Maddie:
the second - blonder version of the Everton shirt, - smile confident and sure.
the sunglasses on the head photo - probably one of the other children
the crimped hair picture with the weird mouth, down-turned smile -
and of course Moa's avatar, for the confident smile alone I'd doubt it.
Maddie wasn't a confident happy girl and it shows in an awful lot of her photographs.

Mornin' my dear tigger!
Yep I'm standing by my opinion, I believe that to be Kate. My son agreed. So there is three of us, at least Wink

Not that I mind in the slightest being in a minority - it comes normal to me!
If any one can prove that is Madeleine, I'll happily fall on my sword. 'Til then, I'll stick with it.
The other photo's, I agree also.

by russiandoll 23.03.12 9:47

Moring Tigger..the issue I have with the avatar that some belive to be Kate is the button nose. Have not seen a photo of Kate that young but when she was an older child, as shown in her book, the end of her nose is more pointed, more sharp. I know many young noses are snub at the end and then as a child gets older some will change . The nose in this avatar reminds me very much of Maddie, but the mouth doesn't, so theres a problem.

I believe the girl with the crimped hair is Maddie after a lot of comparison with other photos.
I wonder at times if she ever existed, so much does her appearance seem to have changed in 4 short years.

And it might be far fetched, but there is more than one photo showing a very weird right hand and arm, I used to wonder also if that was a prosthesis.

by Guest 23.03.12 9:54

Ribisl wrote:I agree with you Moa. I don't see anything wrong with her hand or with this picture as a whole.
Btw did you read some posts pointing out that your avatar shows young Kate and not Madeleine?

Yes I did, but I disagree, I dont think Kate was that cute as a baby, it is also stated that it is Madeleine, she also looks happy. But yes I do see the obviouse difference from other Madeleine Pictures, still dont believe its Kate on this picture..

If we could see the person sitting next to her on that picture it would be easier to state when this picture is taken.. But we cant so until then its just oppinions..Without proof gets us nowhere..

I defently do not agree that its Kate tough...

I think maybe this pictures proves my avatar is Madeleine and not Kate

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[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/img]

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by Guest 23.03.12 10:31

Gillyspot wrote:
Lance De Boils wrote:To be clear, I did not say I thought it actually was a prosthetic arm. I simply threw in a suggestion. To me, the hand and wrist area look very wrong. I have no idea why it should be that way - just that something appears to be wrong. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Oh hello to the latest pro McCann troll to venture here. I hope you aren't trying to cause any trouble.

Lance Boyle @BoyleLance
@JillyCL @DodgyDrPayne Mmmm you must definitely be the black sheep then BAAAAAAAAAA pmsl Bring back fantasy islnd is all I can say #mccann

Oh dear - I did wonder about him with an earlier posting with some dodgy information on a member of Team McCann. In view of his avatar he seems to have been trying to make a monkey of us all!

by Look4Maddy 23.03.12 12:14

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]I believe its Fiona and George in the picture =)

quote="Moa"]

Ribisl wrote:I agree with you Moa. I don't see anything wrong with her hand or with this picture as a whole.
Btw did you read some posts pointing out that your avatar shows young Kate and not Madeleine?

Yes I did, but I disagree, I dont think Kate was that cute as a baby, it is also stated that it is Madeleine, she also looks happy. But yes I do see the obviouse difference from other Madeleine Pictures, still dont believe its Kate on this picture..

If we could see the person sitting next to her on that picture it would be easier to state when this picture is taken.. But we cant so until then its just oppinions..Without proof gets us nowhere..

I defently do not agree that its Kate tough...

I think maybe this pictures proves my avatar is Madeleine and not Kate

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/img]

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/img]

[img][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/img][/quote]

by Guest 23.03.12 12:21

I'm going to have to phone a friend here - who are Fiona and George?

by Look4Maddy 23.03.12 12:28

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Jean wrote:I'm going to have to phone a friend here - who are Fiona and George?

Madeleine's cousins. They lived in donegeal :)

by rainbow-fairy 23.03.12 12:29

Well I'd love to help Jean but I am also stumped - I know there is allegedly a cousin named 'Gregor' - he's the ginger one I believe.
Also, I'm sticking to my guns on this one - the eyes are different on Moa's avatar to the other examples she has given, and on the bigger pic 'Look4Maddy' posted, the nose does seem less squibby. Also, idkw, but the picture looks 'old' - like the pictures from the camera's when I was young.
Its only my opinion but for what its worth, there it is.
Like russiandoll earlier, I freely admit that I've had my doubts the girl ever existed at all!