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Amaral - hero or villain?

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by aiyoyo on 04.01.10 5:13

Oh dear, same old.......

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by vaguely on 04.01.10 8:53

@Autumn wrote:

Here we go again with your cheap and tedious 'Team Bennett' jibes. This is pathetic given that you continue to bleat your 'abduction' mantra simply because the McCanns said so. You display sheep-like mentality, DCB, but I and the other 'antis' on here are able to think for ourselves. This, I believe, is the main differemce between 'pros' and 'antis'.



I've never heard DCB bleating, let alone bleating an abduction mantra.

DCB very much thinks and posts for themselves. Just my opinion, but something I've noticed of him when we've shared forum space in the past.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Slartibartfast on 04.01.10 9:29

@Autumn wrote:
@Honoria wrote:Marigold, Amaral is in deep shit and none of it is the McCanns doing and that is fact he has no honesty or integrity just his ego which is barely holding him up!!

What a ridiculous post, Amaral comes over as a decent, honest and humble man. Your description of Amaral is more applicable to Gerry McCann.

Who was sacked off the case for shooting his mouth off to the press?

Who has a conviction for perjury in a torture case?

Who is facing further charges of torture of a witness?

And that's just for starters.

I see nothing decent (torture), honest (convicted liar) and humble (You are kidding right?) about Goncalo Amaral.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Autumn on 04.01.10 9:40

@Chinagirl wrote:Excellent post, Raffle.

I asked Raffle what he HAD done not what he hadn't.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by aiyoyo on 04.01.10 9:49

hero or villian? neither.

Simply a man prevented from his job and trying to get a redress.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Slartibartfast on 04.01.10 10:30

@aiyoyo wrote:hero or villian? neither.

Simply a man prevented from his job and trying to get a redress.

Simply a man prevented from his job of beating the crap out of suspects and trying to make a few bob on fantasy books more like.

If there is one person responsible for the position he finds himself in it is himself.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by sans_souci on 04.01.10 10:40

@aiyoyo wrote:hero or villian? neither.

Simply a man prevented from his job and trying to get a redress.

Amaral was a policeman employed by the PJ, who paid him a salary for the work he was doing. His bosses eventually decided that he should be moved to other duties. Subsequently he resigned from the PJ and took his pension entitlement. It is possible that the charges and court case arising from the Cipriano case may have precipitated his resignation, to prevent dismissal if found guilty.

I am struggling to see where any entitlement to redress arises or from whom it should be claimed.

It seems to me that his resignation allowed him to publish his book and make significant profits from it - now of course under dispute.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by aiyoyo on 04.01.10 10:56

All subjective and in the above 2 posters cases jaundiced view of Amaral.

We shall see what unfolds.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by sans_souci on 04.01.10 11:28

Not all subjective. He was employed by the PJ, he was dismissed from the case, he did resign, he did take a pension, he was convicted and sentenced, he did write and publish a book, he did make money from it and his is being sued by the Mccanns.

Based on what is emerging about him, a bit of sceptisism about his character would not seem to be out of order. Although I appreciate that some may consider him in a more sympathetic light.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Perelli on 04.01.10 11:46

@aiyoyo wrote:All subjective and in the above 2 posters cases jaundiced view of Amaral.

We shall see what unfolds.

Yes, we shall indeed. Anyone have any predictions on the outcome of both cases being heard this month (the McCanns libel and the torture case)?

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by sans_souci on 04.01.10 12:00

I am happy to provide a prediction.

Libel case - appeal against injunction. Amaral will duck out pleading lack of financial resources and bleating that this infrignes his rights under article 37 of the Portuguese constitution.

Torture case. Will be impossible for him to avoid, but will be quite protracted. He will be found guilty by bench trial and sentenced, but probably not suspended this time. He will appeal.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Guest on 04.01.10 12:13

or maybe he himself will get swine flu !

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Guest on 04.01.10 12:13

Raffle wrote:
@Autumn wrote:
Raffle wrote:The main difference I think between pros and antis is that the pros think that Madeleine is worth looking for and should NOT be written off as dead and unfindable unless ALL hope has been extinguished and REAL facts are found to PROVE she is dead.

Oh really, Raffle, and how much searching have you done today? What, in practicle terms, does your searching involve? Do you actively walk the streets of your neighbourhood looking for Madeleine (even though no-one has a clue what she would look like)?

Well I don't do one thing that some partake in. And that is to sit and slate her family's heartbreaking and sustained attempts to keep her in the public eye in the hope that they will get her back. I don't spend my time ridiculing her dad for going to CEOP conferences.

I don't support bent coppers who made a quick buck (or a million of them) and told the world she was dead (and therefore not worth looking for)

I've never took pictures of her house and told the mods on a hate site they could use them but please make sure everyone knows I took them (unlike some I could mention)

I've never stalked her mother round shops

I've never leafleted her parents' neighbours with spiteful, factually incorrect leaflets

I've never stuck my nose in with Social Services and demanded the twins be taken off her parents

I've never tried to get her parents into court

I've never been on the front page of a national paper being branded a stalker

I've never harassed her extended family

Ive never said she was a clone, an IVF mistake or any other of the frankly stooooooooooooooopid theories that have abounded for the past 2 and a half years.


All the work of the despicable species of "anti"---because people who do stuff like the above aren't really human are they?
Agree with you Raffle.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Guest on 04.01.10 14:33

@sans_souci wrote:I am happy to provide a prediction.

Libel case - appeal against injunction. Amaral will duck out pleading lack of financial resources and bleating that this infrignes his rights under article 37 of the Portuguese constitution.

Torture case. Will be impossible for him to avoid, but will be quite protracted. He will be found guilty by bench trial and sentenced, but probably not suspended this time. He will appeal.

What's intriguing me is: how will he be able to duck out when he's allegedly got these 6 witnesses lined up?But if he looses, which I expect will happen, that'll probably cost him even more money.

I don't know much about the other torture case, like how reliable is the witness, what's the proof the prosecutor's got etc. Yet what we've heard about that Hugo case (and probably there's a few more incidents of which we haven't heard yet) makes me seriously doubt his moral standards.
Both he and his wife seem to be fond of money, or rather of spending it, and according to that letter Sofia wrote, he was keen on getting a promotion and angry because he didn't get what he wanted.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Guest on 04.01.10 14:37

From history it doesn't seem that he likes paying Bills etc..


ANYONE KNOW HOW MUCH HIS FUND HAS RAISED?

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by sans_souci on 04.01.10 15:19

A pretty fair summary Molly. If he were to drop the appeal, then it would not cost him anything in terms of court fees, and it is unlikely to cst him anything in terms of witnesses. They would only be able to claim travel costs in any event.

As far as the libel case proper is concerned, if he were to drop it, it may cost him court fees and any damages awarded, but this would in all probability be cheaper than the case proceeding to trial.

All academic of course, because apparently he has previously undisclosed evidence that will mean he is certain to win.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Guest on 04.01.10 15:31

Thanks Sans. Dropping out will mean he'll loose face, again. He doesn't look like he's able to handle that.
"apparently he has previously undisclosed evidence that will mean he is certain to win."
Just like he was certain the McCanns wouldn't dare to sue him in Portugal?
I'm afraid his "evidence" is of the wishful or imaginary sort, just like his understanding of the DNA results (for instance) is.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by DyDy on 05.01.10 13:14

Is Martin Grime a witness for Amaral? If not, isn't that strange?

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Guest on 05.01.10 13:28

@DyDy wrote:Is Martin Grime a witness for Amaral? If not, isn't that strange?
Can't recall seeing him on the list !!

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by vaguely on 05.01.10 13:28

Maybe he's busy helping Mr Bennett amend his leaflet.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Guest on 05.01.10 13:31

This man his Lawyer is though isn't he? Very strange affair indeedy.



http://justice4mccannfam.blogspot.com/2010/01/joao-grade-lawyer-to-leonor-cipriano.html



Joao Grade Lawyer To Leonor Cipriano & The Goncalo Amaral Connection
Dr Joao Grade dos Santos
Former Lawyer To Leonor Cipriano
Leonor Cipriano was convicted with her brother Joao Cipriano, of murdering Leonor's daughter and then disposing her body in the most macabre, spine chilling of ways. Leonor's lawyer was Dr Joao Grade dos Santos. Dr Grade received no financial recompense for representing Leonor and her brother, although legal aid was granted in their case. In Portugal if you are granted legal aid and need a lawyer to be paid out of that grant, the court actually appoints a lawyer, the defendant cannot choose a lawyer of their choice. Dr Marcos Aragao Correia, Leonor's present lawyer, also receives no financial recompense, he is expected to represent Leonor Cipriano for nothing. Leonor cannot pay him, she is very poor and has no money.



Leonor Cipriano Arriving At Court For Last Year's Trial
So weak, she Had to Be Helped Along By Two Prison Guards
~~~~~~~~~~~~

With so many miscarriages of justices occurring in Portugal, with the same story of people not being adequately represented, this is probably the reason why!

Dr Grade seemed to be doing a reasonable job of representing Leonor and then all of a sudden that changed, here we will attempt to understand the reasons why that suddenly changed.

In 2005, Leonor Cipriano, along with her brother, Joao, were found guilty of murdering eight-year old Joana Cipriano after she was reported missing in September 2004.

They were found guilty by a court of three judges and four jurors, they received prison sentences of 20 and 19 years respectively, since their sentences have been reduced on appeal to 16 years each.

In April 2008 Joao Grade was arrested as he prepared to visit two prisoners in Beja prison, after drugs were detected in two bags he maintains he was carrying in for the two inmates. Amphetamines equivalent to approximately 45 doses street value and also a quantity of ecstasy tablets.
On March 26th 2008, one month before Joao Grade was found to be carrying drugs in his possession, Goncalo Amaral along with four of his lower ranking colleagues PJ inspectors Paulo Pereira Cristovao, Leonel Marques, Paulo Marques Bom and Antonio Cardoso, were committed to jury trial by Joaquim da Cruz, an investigating judge. In May 2009, Goncalo Amaral was found guilty of falso testimunho (perjury) and given an 18 month suspended prison sentence.

Dr Grade, also said he was confident that he would be able to clear his clients once their appeal was heard, as he believed their guilt had not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Since the guilty verdict was announced, a number of Portugal's leading lawyers and judges have spoken out against the decision. One judge at Leonor's trial insisted on going on record as stating that he thinks Leonor Cipriano is innocent.

Strangely this indictment that went on to see Amaral sent for trial and subsequently convicted was the result of an investigation triggered by a complaint filed by Leonor's lawyer in 2004. Dr Grade alleged that having been questioned for 48 hours, Leonor confessed only as the result of a serious and vicious assault.






Leonor Cipriano's Injuries After She Had been viciously and Brutally Beaten During her Torture in Police Custody.
The Torture Has Since Been Proved In court



This is the woman that Dr Joao grade was supposed to be representing in court.

Is this the same Dr Joao Grade dos Santos, that now holds Goncalo Amaral, an officer he helped to convict in high esteem? So high, that he has now become the disgraced former PJ coordinators advocate and plans to train the convicted criminal to be a lawyer?
Is this the same Dr Joao Grade dos Santos, that has now pledged to testify in favour of Goncalo Amaral at his forthcoming trial, where he will stand trial once again accused of torture, this time the torture of Leandro Silva, Leonor Cipriano's partner?
Is this the same Dr Joao Grade dos Santos, who attended the 50th birthday party of Goncalo Amaral and who dined with another member of the five former PJ inspectors he helped send for trial, Pierre Paulo Cristovoa? The simple answer to those questions is yes!

How can Dr Grade in all honesty testify in favour of Amaral at his trial where he stands accused of torturing another member of the family, he represented and helped to convict by getting them indicted?

How did Dr Joao Grade dos Santos manage to get off of the charge of drug smuggling in a country where they arrest you, take you into a room for questioning and then beat you to within an inch of your life, for even minor misdemeanors?

Strange business this lawyer thing, very strange!

Could it be that Dr Joao Grade dos Santos is in fear of his life and that of the safety of his family?

Until 1974 Portugal was a dictatorship, this was the climate in which the PJ was created and their methods were notoriously brutal.
In a country where brutal treatment of suspects was routine. The mother of one expatriate British woman had been arrested in the late 1980's on suspicion of a petty crime and she was savagely beaten while in custody, she was found to have extensive and deep bruising all over her body. Of course, the police said they hadn't done anything, and they were never called to account.

Leonor Cipriano dispensed the services of Dr Grade and employed the services of Dr Marcos Aragao Correia. Dr Correia has subsequently ran a successful trial in getting Goncalo Amaral convicted and having Goncalo Amaral charged with the torture of Leonor's partner, Leandro Silva.

Against this backdrop in Portugal, perhaps we should not be too surprised that the Lawyer that just successfully had five ex Portuguese detectives accused and charged with various serious crimes, ranging with torture and perjury, in the March of 2008, was himself "apparently" caught in possession of drugs as he "apparently" tried to smuggle them into a prison, just one month later in April 2008. Coincidence? Even the birthday party of Goncalo Amaral could not pass without incident!
Leonor's present lawyer and the former "friend" of Amaral and her husband, were aggressed in the street as they stood watching Amaral's firework party! (This is the party that Dr Joao Grade dos Santos also attended as a guest of Amaral's)
Dr Aragao Correia was pulled through his open car window and threatened, while the husband of Amaral's former "friend" was punched repeatedly in the face by people that came from the party, allegedly sent by Goncalo Amaral. The police were called and the incident reported and the three who were attacked, were given incident report numbers, also the Portimao attorney general was informed.

Yet Dr Grade is to testify in favour of Goncalo Amaral?

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Guest on 05.01.10 13:36

It all stinks like a barrel full of old kippers.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Guest on 05.01.10 14:37

Raffle wrote:It all stinks like a barrel full of old kippers.
Does doesn't it?

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Guest on 05.01.10 16:28

Strange all these drugs related people.
A lawyer, A former cop, A convicted man (João Cipriano).
And there's this other drugs-related cop.

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Re: Amaral - hero or villain?

Post by Avery on 05.01.10 16:39

Yes, the character assassination is disgusting and it does smell that all those who oppose the McCann position are attacted in such a manner. Their detectives seem to have been busy digging for dirt on all those opposed to them and leaking everything in a most twisted and distorted manner. These mud slinging articles are too over the top to be taken seriously.

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