Re: Alan D. Elsdon - My Theories

by **Tony Bennett** 26.11.21 14:17

ird131 wrote:
This follows on my recent “Red Herring Theory” (see Debate section), in which my suspicion is shared regarding the discovered cadaver and blood linked to Madeleine’s disappearance. The evidence has all the features of having being fabricated within a staged crime scene.

Ah yes, the theory that suggests that Madeleine's body fluids under the tiles were faked, that persons unknown secretly contaminated three items of clothing belonging to the McCann family, that cadaver scent was secretly sprayed in the hired car, in the flat, on the veranda, in the flower-bed, on Cuddle Cat etc. - all with no evidence provided of how this was done and by whom, and when, and which makes Martin Grime look like an utter nincompoop.

Do we not have a sub-forum somewhere titled 'Rejected Theories' where this thread could quietly be laid to rest?

by Bird131 26.11.21 15:59

No suggestion has been made that Martin Grime, or his dogs, were part of any fabrication of evidence. All three responded as expected to the cadaver and blood. The word 'nincompoop' doesn't figure anywhere when a dedicated police officer, or his dogs, conduct their duties properly.

by **Tony Bennett** 26.11.21 16:59

Bird131 wrote:No suggestion has been made that Martin Grime, or his dogs, were part of any fabrication of evidence. All three responded as expected to the cadaver and blood. The word 'nincompoop' doesn't figure anywhere when a dedicated police officer, or his dogs, conduct their duties properly.

Therefore you admit that cadaver and or blood evidence was laid...

- in 17 places associated with the McCanns,
- by persons unknown,
- on an unknown date,
- including laying blood under the living room tiles which had to be lifted up to find the blood residue,
- and that Martin Grime's dogs couldn't distinguish between real cadaver scent and planted cadaver scent.

From which corpses did the unknown persons get their cadaver scent evidence?

When did the unknown persons get access to the clothes to wipe them with cadaver scent?

Why did they only select three items of clothing on which to pour their cadaver scent?

Why not a dozen of them?

by Bird131 26.11.21 17:15

There is nothing to admit or deny in any theory - except to agree that it was possible. Only the persons present when a crime scene is contaminated, know why they chose certain items or the number of items which to contaminate.
You and I can't be expected to know what was going through their minds at the time.

by Vera Krista 26.11.21 17:49

I read many articles about the possibility of faking cadaver scents in labs and some dogs are trained by these fake scents.

But why would they fake cadaver scent and plant it into 5A?

Who would plant it? and what's the reason?

If they wanted McCann's in prison they could have find the body and end this game.

Was it done to threaten the McCann's do as we wish or more will come out?

by crusader 26.11.21 18:18

If Madeleine had been abducted, she would either have disappeared without trace or her body, hopefully, would have been found.
The dogs, found ,in 5a, what they were trained to find, blood and cadaver scent.
In my wildest imagination, I can not see a burglar, looking to pilfer valuables, finding a dead child and taking her instead, this scenario borders on insanity..
So what are we left with, the only clues pointing to an abduction are, Madeleine is missing.
Weigh this up with all the clues pointing to Madeleine having died in the apartment and the evidence is overwhelming.
Forget for a moment, the dogs evidence, G Amaral, a man with years of police investigating, said from the start, the scene looked staged.
Police of every nation develop a "sixth sense" over time, If G Amaral said it looked staged, I believe him.

by Guest 26.11.21 18:41

why fake cadaver scent, just use real stuff. the crime scene could be a set up, but if that is what had taken place, the people that had done it could have also have known, what quality of dogs was available.

if you want a good result, simple, just use real stuff. most knowledge about the scent of death is from research after 2007. we can not make it artificially and why would you. also most countries try to change restrictions in the use of true cadaver relicts for research and training.

if the goal was to let a dog find cadaver scent, you do not risk second best.

but back to bird's theory.

i still want to hear more, i miss the part after madeleine died, and the who, and why, and when all this assistance for better, or worse did take place. names, numbers, dates, agencies.

by crusader 26.11.21 19:07

Eddie, the cadaver dog, only reacts to human or pig scent. According to Martin Grime, his dogs showed no interest in artificially chemically produced dead body scent, so he didn't use it in training his dogs.

by Bird131 26.11.21 19:33

The cadaver would not have been chemically manufactured.

by crusader 26.11.21 19:51

I suppose real cadaver would not be hard to get hold of, the planting of evidence is not new.
But the real question is why.
Why would "they" whoever "they" are, want to frame the McCann's ?
The McCann's were doing a pretty good job of looking guilty without any help.

by Guest 26.11.21 21:04

and if they wanted to blackmail the mccanns, some footage, pictures or tapes would have done that a lot easier.

the pj already had their suspicion against them.

a burglar taking a dead child, instead of papers and sellable stuff, is pure fiction.

a pro team would never have let madeleine disappear at the evening. finding a empty bed in the morning was far easier for team mccann. only amateurs would think eating out would be a nice alibi.
same with the timeline they fabricated, they simply forgot to give a perp a chance to get in.
that story line does not smell of pro assistance.

by Bird131 27.11.21 5:53

To answer a few of the previous questions.
There's no proof of any burglary, abduction or blackmail.
Read my latest, "End of the World" ...
Most of the time it's the easiest, least complicated and quickest route that is taken.
The introduction of the genuine cadaver .. is where everything started to go wrong ... but not for those involved in Madeleine's 'disappearance' ...
That's when everything started going 'wrong' in the police investigation ... all to the benefit of those involved

by Guest 27.11.21 7:18

Kate McCann told the world that she went on holiday with clothes which bore cadaver scent, claiming she had dealt with dead bodies at work.

by **PeterMac** 27.11.21 7:52

CaKeLoveR wrote:Kate McCann told the world that she went on holiday with clothes which bore cadaver scent, claiming she had dealt with dead bodies at work.

She didn't. That was an invention of her mother, desperate to try to explain away another incriminating fact.

What is interesting is that by so doing they ACCEPT that there WAS cadaver odour, and that the dogs DID find it.

by Guest 27.11.21 7:59

I had read that it was Kate McCann, so I assume it was mis-reported. Thanks for correcting my impression. Her mother dropped a clanger there, didn't she?

by crusader 27.11.21 8:20

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Have I missed something, what is End of the World?

by Bird131 27.11.21 8:26

WOW ... yes. You and a few others seemed to have missed my theory as to what happened to Madeleine's body.
It's under my post (number 71 - I think).
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by Guest 27.11.21 8:44

crusader wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Have I missed something, what is End of the World?

I'd like to know that well.

by Guest 27.11.21 9:09

to bird;

where did madeleine died? if you have to stage a crime scene with cadaver scent, that must have been outside 5a.

where was the body kept until a car was available to travel to sagres?

to some it have looked so, that 5a was cleaned very good. it was not. the first forensic search proved that for certain. there was no deep cleaning at all in the room where the children slept. the second forensic search did not give room for a deep cleaning that was done.

the washing of curtains is never proven, looks more as a tabloid or forum myth. and why wash something that little time later will be used in a set up.

till 3 mai 2007 nothing could have happened that the mccann's would not have know. after that, even when it was rented out again, there have been extra eyes on 5a. something with journalist that tried to get access was simply noted. it became a place of interest for every one, all people who have passed it, would automatically have looked at it.

true if you want to do fake a crime scene, it is easier before all those eyes are very curious eyes.

the portuguese kept an eye on the british 'helping hands', as amaral described it in his book.

simple explanation, does not mean go can leave the details out. at least not details as place of death, or place were a body was kept. these are the places were is possible evidence is to find. that can not be a unknown concept for you.

by **Jill Havern** 27.11.21 9:13

CaKeLoveR wrote:
crusader wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Have I missed something, what is End of the World?
I'd like to know that well.

On the previous page Alan posted his theory and I posted all the photographs for him.

by **Jill Havern** 27.11.21 9:18

OK, here's Alan's theory again, with all the photos:

This follows on my recent “Red Herring Theory” (see Debate section), in which my suspicion is shared regarding the discovered cadaver and blood linked to Madeleine’s disappearance. The evidence has all the features of having being fabricated within a staged crime scene.[/justify]

My theory is that Madeleine died when an accident occurred on the evening of 29 April 2007. Whatever the circumstances, a clear decision was immediately taken – to conceal the death of Madeleine and dispose of her body.

The hiding of anything unknown, or not reported missing, is far easier than when out in the open. Being on foreign soil, those who took it upon themselves to choose Madeleine’s final resting place, decided to involve someone who was completely trustworthy and familiar with the Algarve.

After a few frantic but carefully chosen telephone calls to Britain, the ‘contact’ person provided the name of a family member who resided in a town close to Praia da Luz. The next morning being 30 April 2007, Gerry and Kate went about their daily holiday routine.

The twins were taken and booked into the crèche they attended at the Ocean Club. As arranged with his ‘contact’, Gerry was provided with a car for the required trip. As instructed, Gerry and Kate took a friends daughter with them for the outing. It was no coincidence that she and Madeleine were about the same age and looked alike.

After the 25 kilometer's drive, the McCanns and their passenger arrived in the civil parish town of Sagres. Gerry easily found the address from which the ‘contact’ in Britain was called. By then an intricate plan was firmly in place to cover-up Madeleine McCanns untimely death.

Gerry and Kate were given a trivial task to perform whilst in the parish town. This would later be ‘leaked’ to the British media to confirm the McCanns 30 April 2007 visit – and that of Madeleine, to Sagres. After their brief appearance in a shopping area and the beach of Sagres, Gerry drove towards the Cape St Vincent Lighthouse situated on the most southwest tip of Portugal.

Gerry ventured onto a lesser travelled pathway seldom used because of the obvious dangers. The magnificent high and surrounding steep cliffs, hold back the raging Atlantic Ocean far below. The lonely unguarded area known as the “End of the World”, was clearly the perfect spot.

After returning to Praia da Luz, an impromptu visit was made to the crèche and ‘Lobster group’, to which Madeleine belonged. The sneaky entry in the register would later prove that Madeleine McCann was at the crèche for (an odd) 15 minutes, during the afternoon of Monday 30 April 2007 – all part of the skillfully devised plan.

The following day 1 May 2007, as promised, the ‘contact’ arrived in Praia da Luz from Britain. That evening and at sunset, the picturesque “End of the World” was visited. Two days later, on 3 May 2007 the lives of Gerry and Kate McCann changed forever. That evening, their daughter Madeleine was abducted from apartment 5A at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz.

This theory leans heavily on the ensuing actions and utterances of Gerry and Kate McCann. It is also supported by factual events and photographs. One of the earliest occurred soon after Madeleine’s ordeal.

Kate shared a disturbing dream she had during which she “saw Maddie lying cold and mottled, on a big grey stone slab”. This must have sent shivers down the back of the ‘contact’, who was still in Praia da Luz playing an important supportive role.

Asked about Kate’s experience, a distraught Gerry, attentive to the dangers of such graphic details being revealed, denied that any such dream ever took place. This disastrous flaw (or clue), slipped out whilst the parents were still practicing the skill of telling identical lies confidently and consistently.

In Kate’s account of events that week in her 2011 book ‘Madeleine’, there is no mention of any 30 April 2007 visit with Madeleine to Sagres, let alone a day trip. Kate says nothing at all about the Monday apart from a brief mundane reference to evening shopping followed by the usual Tapas evening meal. Until today, the 30 April 2007 “Sagres trip”, despite receiving wide media coverage, remains shrouded in secrecy.

Another event which Gerry and Kate managed to cautiously hide at the time, was their visits to Clement Freud at his home in Praia da Luz weeks after their daughter’s disappearance. In her published book Madeleine, Kate for the first time keenly shared her experiences and admiration for the eccentric paedophile.

She mentioned Freud’s enticing brandy and shots of strawberry vodka including his keen wit, even pertaining to cadaver dogs testifying in court, with one bark for a ‘yes’ and two for a ‘no’. So much for heartfelt hopes and prayers at the time that little abducted Maddie was alive and well and might still be found – while they were all having a jolly good time!

Over the years, Gerry has devised a bold defence on how to halt cynics in their tracks by bravely demanding, “Show us Maddie’s body”. This is hardly what one would expect from a hopeful parent … unless Gerry is absolutely certain that after 16 years, his missing daughter’s body will never be found.

Recently, a ‘Google Earth’ search was made of Sagres and its surroundings (images 1-3). At 12:49 on the day, specific attention focused on a cliff (image 4) in close proximity of Cabo de São Vicente Lighthouse (image 5). Closer scrutiny of the cliff (images 6-9), delivered two items of tangible interest.

The first is a large grey rock or stone protruding from the sea (image 10). It bears an eerie similarity to that which Kate described in her 2007 dream when she told of seeing Maddie “lying cold and mottled, on a big grey stone slab”.

The second appears to be a rare computer glitch captured on Google Earth. It can be viewed at the furthermost tip of “Cliff 1249” overlooking the rocks and sea (images 11-13). The anomaly bears an uncanny resemblance to the shape of Angel wings, falling away from the cliff. Attached is a photo of interest (image14), showing Madeleine in party dress.

[justify]There’s a stirring tale behind this theory including the discovery of the glitch, which will probably remain on the internet until Google Earth’s next geographic update of the area. Until then, the lonely Angel-like wings can lay claim to the [i]“End of the World”.

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1. Sagres & Cape St Vincent
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2. Cape St Vincent & cliff
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3. Cape St Vincent & cliff
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4. Cliff 1249 Helder Afonso
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5. Cape St Vincent lighthouse
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6. Cliff side and flat grey slab
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7. Tip of cliff up close
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8. Cliff top, grey slab & glitch
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9. Cliff showing height
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10. Grey slab
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11. Cliff, wings-like glitch & slab
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12. Wings-like glitch above slab
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13. Wings-like glitch above slab

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14. Madeleine in party dress

by Ladyinred 27.11.21 11:56

Are you saying Madeleine 's body was thrown off a cliff into the sea?

by Bird131 27.11.21 12:36

Ladyinred, I'm not saying Madeleine's body was simply "thrown off a cliff" ...
If my theory about what happened is correct, great care would have been taken to minimize the risk of any discovery.

by Vera Krista 27.11.21 14:18

If her body is at the bottom of the Ocean, would not it resurface one day.. It's always risky. So how do you minimise the risk of any discovery? cremation? scattering ashes to the sea? dismantling the body into pieces and get rid of it that way? or burry her somewhere.