Alan D. Elsdon - My Theories

And then there is a matter of the provenance of Madeleine McCann's DNA reference sample, allegedly used for comparison with forensic material collected at the crime scene - apartment 5a, Ocean Club, Praia da Luz. A pillow case, said to have belonged to Madeleine, collected by Gerald McCann when visiting Rothley, England in May 2007. Never has it been documented anywhere to confirm this allegation, nor the method used to forensically preserve the DNA reference sample in accordance with commonplace policing practice.

And then there is the matter of the crime scene, apartment 5a, Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, being compromised by all and sundry prior to the arrival of the GNR and later the PJ

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And then there is the matter of the McCanns group of friends/acquaintances - their holiday companions.

They helped with the production of the timeline for the night of Thursday 3rd May 2007.

They then went on to participate in lengthy interviews with the Leicester Constabulary through the rogatory process almost one year later in April 2008..

An enigma in itself.

The rogatory process would, in reality, be initiated by the Portuguese police if it be they who require clarification of the finer points of their investigation.

Not so in this case!

The McCanns themselves made the request for their holiday group (and others which would appear to be character witnesses - why would they need that!) to be interviewed, it was only then the Portuguese authorities jumped at the chance to pose their own set of questions.  The group having previously left many theoretical questions unanswered.

Gerald and Kate McCann are not exonerated, they were and still are the prime suspects in the disappearance of their own precious little daughter - neither are the holiday group exonerated.

Back to basics - nothing has changed but an extensive group of decent people  who won't let it rest until justice is done for little Madeleine McCann. A little life taken without care, only self preservation a fore thought.

This voyage of discovery commenced in the summer of 2007, with tales of witnesses, sightings, private detectives, to use the vernacular .  Fourteen and a half years later we are still being fed the same nonsense by the ever faithful media and it's tentacles.

Funny that innit!

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I'm going back here to the idea that a team went in to plant human blood and human cadaver scent . 
My question is why they chose to use behind the sofa in the living room and in the parents bedroom apparently in the area of the wardrobe , though as Grime said the scent could have come from elsewhere in the bedroom due to the passage of time and airflow in the room . 
Keela was only trained to alert to human blood , Eddie was originally trained for human blood then for bodies , whole or part of and body fluids from decomposition . His training was using dead piglets in the UK as using human bodies is not allowed , he trained also at The Body Farm in the USA . 
Grime also said pseudo scent was used by some trainers but his dogs never reacted to this compound .

So " the team  " would have to obtain human blood , not difficult I would imagine , and either a dead piglet , human body parts or cloths already contaminated with human cadaver scent to place or wipe in  areas Eddie alerted to , including the veranda and flower bed . The dogs work in tandem , Eddie going in first if he alerted then Keela was sent in . Both dogs alerted behind the sofa indicating blood with a possibility of cadaver scent , only Eddie alerted in the bedroom and outside indicating the past presence of a body . 

Why would " the team " select these areas out of the whole apartment , that's something I can't get my head round in regard to the " purported theory " ?(  Just using Gerrys words here )

Not forgetting the light scent in the Flower bed in the Garden.

all that it needed was time and access, and time was no problem, if this was a fake and made crime scene, you have to look for the moment the pj got the advice to get mark harrison in. access was possible, certainly later on.

the other problem is also time, and the cleaning lady. you would prefer not to deposit your goodies in a place that would be cleaned to often with common industrial grade cleaning supplies. also places with a lot of direct sunlight, you can not use. 
also the next thing is access, you would not choose a place a body can not have been placed. if you choose for a accident by a child, the child must have been able to get exactly to the place of the findings. 

the weak reaction of eddy to the flowerbed, i always expected this was the result of, again a cleaning lady. why walk back to a point of access to get rid of a bucket of dirty water, what you certainly have to clean extra after that, when there are bushes, or planting baskets around. just empty the bucket over the railing of the small patio before the room of the parents. and voila. 

you could get very easily human remains, the young piglets used for training dogs, are mostly stillborn piglets. far less easy to get your hands on. remember, the dogs do not put a date on what they find.
i do know what could be used to fake cadaver, but i like people to look to google. 

most of the blood keela did react to is identified. at least as no mccann family desposition. mind boggling in this, and for me that is the reason i want to hear what bird thinks, is how you get a result on a speck of blood, you could only find, because keela reacted to it, could have more then one contribution of donors.

for me the use of keela and eddy, working in tandem, to tell if a spot is blood or cadaver has little logic. if you get from a accidental death, and the body had been a certain time around, it means you could easily have cadaver, as the in situ dried bloodspatter without further decomposition or decay. 

if in this case a little child had fallen from that sofa, behind that sofa on a hard tiled flooring, i would expect a certain amount of blood around the body itself. 
keela is trained to only react to any blood that has dried in situ, that is pretty specific matter. eddy could do the same, because of his first training, as told by grime, but would have been trained after that to all possible parts and remains of human relicts that have been in a state of decomposition. 

if there was a possibility, that their was truly a pool of blood, and it was around for more than a few hours, that blood would not have been dried out in that time, but could have been gone into a early stage of decay. 
so in that case both dogs still will have been right, but on different 'spots', keela on a spot of in situ dried blood, and eddy because another spot was from a puddle of blood had have time to decay and form the amines eddy was trained to react to. 

keela is the easy one to fake, we all have liters of blood on the go, very easy reachable, al that is needed is to dry out. 
for eddy it is less easier, because you have to get access to human relicts, easy if you know what to go for. 

very helpful if someone had faked this crime scene in 5a, is that both dogs were of the best quality that you could get. 

it is not a question, if it is possible, because it is, but why and when it was done. you do not need sprayers, or cans, or big equipement, only access and some basic knowledge. 
and if bird 131 has a theory about that, i'm wanting to hear it.

And so back to the Red Herring theory v. Sea Bass theory..

The Function of Emulsions on the Biogenic Amine Formation and their Indices of Sea Bass Fillets (Dicentrarchus Labrax) Stored in Vacuum Packaging

The impacts of emulsions based on commercial oils on the biogenic amine formation and their indices of vacuumed packed sea bass fillets were investigated. The results showed that among biogenic amines, cadaverine, putrescine, spermidine, spermine, serotonin, dopamine, and agmatine were predominant amines in sea bass fillets stored under vacuum packaging. Significant differences (P < 0.05) in biogenic amines concentrations of vacuumed packed sea bass treated with emulsions were observed. All groups contained histamine lower than 5.0 mg/100 g, regarded as the allowable limit by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. Polyamine levels were not affected by application of emulsion. Quality index (QI) showed an increase and after 14 d of storage it decreased in all groups. The control generally seemed to higher QI value than those of treatment groups except at 14 and 18 days while soybean and corn gave lower QI among treatment groups. Only biogenic amine index correlated with sensory acceptability of vacuumed packed sea bass, indicating that this index can be used for determination of the degree of spoilage of vacuumed packed sea bass. Emulsions extended the shelf-life (approximately 2 to 4 d) of vacuumed packed sea bass fillets by inhibiting microbial growth compared to the control.

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Gerry McCann's Blog

Friday:  Day 36 - 8th June 2007    

Quieter day today. This was a good chance to catch up with campaign e-mails and phone calls after the trips to Berlin and Amsterdam. At lunchtime we went to the release of 1000 yellow balloons at the beach carrying cards with Madeleine’s picture on it and information in 5 different languages including arabic. There were similar launches in Manchester and Madrid. The event was organsied by the Sun who, like almost all of the media, have been incredibly supportive. I told Nick, the Sun journalist, that we are happy to support all strategies which increase the chances of finding Madeleine. Later in the afternoon we went down to the beach and had dinner in one of the restaurants which Sean and Amelie really enjoyed. Sean, in particular has acquired a taste for sea-bass! Kate and I did a short interview for BBC East Midlands to thank everyone for their support and it is likely that this will be shown around most of the regions, certainly Northwest and BBC Scotland. Kate and most of the family headed down to the church for the regular Friday night vigil but I was just too shattered. Tommorrow will largely be a family day although I am not sure what we will be doing yet.

well for ripe sea bass, you don't need a cadaver dog, i would prefer a cat. for a ripe cadaver neither. your own nose will do for the last. the problem is, if there is no longer a cadaver, our noses are not good enough. dogs nones are. 

almost all material of biological origin will form amines when decay sets in, but as a lot of research after 2007 made clear that mammals and humans have their own patterns. and even those patterns are not equal for every moment, or phase of decay.

that is the exact reason why the training of those dogs is important. and the reason why commercially available cadaverine would not work. 
all dogs and people that become able bodies in the law enforcement are trained on fake crime scenes, it is simply the only way to know if what they find is, what is needed. both are tried and tested, often double blind, meaning the tutors do not know beforehand what is where. training grounds are simply faked crime scenes.

martin grime is one of the people who is, or was working on the artificial dogs nose. still those dogs know better. 

and faked, or true crime scene, at least seabass did not deliver dna into the results of the british lab.  

lucky for the forensic people there are quite a lot of little differences between cells of different species. and after that enough differences in the parts of the genome, that is used in forensics.

looking for dna is also, not looking for the dna itself, but for cells that leave a human body that could hold dna. 

so humane red blood cells, do not have dna, the  humane whites have, but in fish the red blood cells do have dna. so to solve the question if it could have been seabass blood, the answer is no. even plasma drippings would have some reds in them. 

also it was early may, meaning there would not likely have been easy access to fresh sea bass on 3 mai 2007, the portuguese season for sea bass fishing starts from 15 may on. 
sea bass is not something that is mainstream goodies in supermarkets. restaurants would have different ways of getting frozen ones. still most wil have waited for the fresh caught ones. 

so not very likely that a young boy had pretending liking sea bass, while he actually did not, and shoved it behind a certain blue sofa. 
beside that would those perfect parents as the mccanns are, let eat a 2 year old seabass on a texiled sofa? feeding a 2 year old sea bass is already borderline enough.

Well, Gerry McCann thought specialist trained dogs to be incredibly unreliable - or words to that effect, didn't he. So he'd find any wild card up his sleeve, even something as daft as sea-bass to detract from reality, albeit embarrassing in the long run.

He even went to great lengths to cite a case over in the US of A to prove his scepticism - that backfired! It's all documented here on CMOMM. In my view, his reticence to accept and/or at least acknowledge the outstanding skill of trained dogs speaks volumes in itself. Clearly he wanted the dogs to be wrong - now why would that be !?!

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onehand wrote:t is not a question, if it is possible, because it is, but why and when it was done. you do not need sprayers, or cans, or big equipement, only access and some basic knowledge.
and if bird 131 has a theory about that, i'm wanting to hear it.

Forum member Bird131 has grabbed the desired attention - sure thing all will be revealed in due course..

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Patience is a virtue !

I'm fascinated enough to hang on .

Just read the files its all there ,tuesdat night, a child shouting daddie ? Or an adult shouting Maddie my opinion only, just an opinion on the facts ,,?? Sorry if this is in the wrong thread

Cazz09 wrote:Just read the files its all there ,tuesdat night, a child shouting daddie ? Or an adult shouting Maddie my opinion only, just an opinion on the facts ,,?? Sorry if this is in the wrong thread

No, you are bang on Cazź.

This is a free for all by virtue of it's own place on the forum!

Has the red Herring been smoked?

Still waiting to fall off my chair…

Cazz09 wrote:Just read the files its all there ,tuesdat night, a child shouting daddie ? Or an adult shouting Maddie my opinion only, just an opinion on the facts ,,?? Sorry if this is in the wrong thread

That would be the  reported May 1st crying episode ? Could have been Sean shouting fo Maddie ? Could have been either shouting for daddie ?

British ambassador, Alexander Ellis, told US ambassador Al Hoffman 2 weeks after Kate and Gerry were made arguidos, "British police helped develop evidence against the McCann's".
He stressed authorities from both countries were working co-operatively.
The above disclosure is said to come from Wikileaks. 
John Buck left office the day after McCann's were made arguidos and Alexander Ellis took over as Ambassador.

crusader wrote:British ambassador, Alexander Ellis, told US ambassador Al Hoffman 2 weeks after Kate and Gerry were made arguidos, "British police helped develop evidence against the McCann's".
He stressed authorities from both countries were working co-operatively.
The above disclosure is said to come from Wikileaks. 
John Buck left office the day after McCann's were made arguidos and Alexander Ellis took over as Ambassador.

I've always been a bit suspicious about this alleged wikileak, for a start I've never seen any hard evidence that the conversation took place - as it stands it's second hand news. Why would the British ambassador to Portugal be discussing the McCanns with a US ambassador? Not impossible of course but without proof of the conversation it has little or no value.

John Buck has been discussed extensively here on CMOMM. At the time emphasis was placed on the date of his retirement as British ambassador to Portgual as being in some way significant. I had a rummage, the date he left office was consistent with the contract period for an ambassador, it didn't appear to be of any particular consequence except to keep in mind should anything crop-up to connect in some way.

I'll see if I can locate the thread.

John Buck said he was leaving Portugal in June at a party he hosted for HM the Queen, so it was no rush departure.

According to the Portugal Resident newspaper.https://www.portugalresident.com/a-special-farewell-to-john-buck/

Quite so!

A special farewell to John Buck

By: SHEENA RAWCLIFFE
28th June 2007

JOHN BUCK, HM Ambassador to Portugal and his wife Jean hosted a Queen’s Birthday Party on Thursday evening in glorious surroundings.

Welcoming 800 invited guests, John said that this would be his last Queen’s Birthday Party and not just in Portugal but, probably ever.

John is leaving Portugal in August and will start a new adventure when he commences a career in business.

Emotional

On what was clearly an emotional occasion for both John and Jean, John said: “As I look around this evening, and see so many friends and colleagues in this magnificent setting, I would have to be made of stone not to wonder whether we are doing the right thing. But it is, at least in part, because diplomatic life does not get much better than a posting to Lisbon, that we have decided to move on. We are leaving while we are ahead, way ahead, in the diplomatic lottery.”

Referring to one of the world’s oldest alliances between Portugal and Britain, the outgoing Ambassador said that, despite time moving on and with it the need to adapt, there remains something special about the relationship between the two countries.

“That quality is founded not just on history, but also on shared interests and strong personal links. It is also, I think, based on common and complementary characteristics. Both our peoples have a strong romantic streak and a keen sense of tradition.

The Portuguese Navy band were outstanding

That can sometimes lead us to be sentimental about the past; to spend too much time looking backwards. But we share, too, a fundamental pragmatism; a practical approach to everyday life; a desire to get on with the present and the future.”

Partnerships

In the past three years as the British Ambassador to Portugal, John stated that he had tried to focus on the present and future in building commercial partnerships for the prosperity of both countries; in promoting joint security in an uncertain
world by working with Portuguese colleagues in the armed forces and other services; in building law enforcement partnerships to confront the threat posed by international crime and in helping create the kind of Europe both countries seek through working with Portuguese politicians and diplomats.

John was effusive in his thanks to his highly effective Embassy colleagues.

“I know that they, and my successor, will continue to build and sustain the strong relationship between our two countries” he said.

Toasts

At the close of the Ambassador’s speech he offered toasts to Her Majesty The Queen and His Excellency, The President of Portugal. Each toast was followed by the National Anthem, played by the Portuguese Navy Band.

As his final words, John offered his sincere thanks to the commercial partners who sponsored the event – Jaguar, Logica CMG, Barclays, British Airways, VisitBritain, GlaxoSmithKline and BP – and the Portuguese Navy band which provided excellent music.

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Silentscope wrote:Has the red Herring been smoked?

Still waiting to fall off my chair…

Yes, Smoked out. 
We wait to see if the white ants can re-mobilise to munch their way through your chair legs, legs made of DNA facts and CSI dog detection truths. 
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I should think this will only serve to reinforce Dr Amarals case against Jon Clarke’s totally libellous claim in his Book, that the PJ were so desperate for a result, that they planted evidence on the McCann’s.

Evidence that was only to be found in Rothley, and not in Apartment 5A.

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Hello again Bird131 , that's a lot to take in and I'm sure will incite much interest.

I think it would be better if merged with your previous theory thread, to keep it together so to speak. I will move later, if you would like to suggest a new title that incorporates all your work in progress, let me know!

Thanks!

Thanks Verdi, truly appreciate.
Placing the two together makes sense.
For now I'm battling to find a title that brings the two together, but will revert asap.
Then there's the rest of the 14 photos .. should I email them to Jill?
Thanks.

Yes, email them to me Alan, I'll upload them for you.

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1. Sagres & Cape St Vincent
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2. Cape St Vincent & cliff
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3. Cape St Vincent & cliff
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4. Cliff 1249 Helder Afonso
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5. Cape St Vincent lighthouse
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6. Cliff side and flat grey slab
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7. Tip of cliff up close
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8. Cliff top, grey slab & glitch
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9. Cliff showing height
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10. Grey slab
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11. Cliff, wings-like glitch & slab
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12. Wings-like glitch above slab
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13. Wings-like glitch above slab
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14. Madeleine in party dress