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Theory

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Theory

Post by Guest on Thu May 19, 2011 11:18 am

Anyone any thoughts on this theory (bit long to c & p)

http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com/p/theory-english.html

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Re: Theory

Post by Garth on Thu May 19, 2011 6:11 pm

Yeh, wot a load of crap!
 
I have a far simpler one.
 
Two abductors watch apartment.
 
McCanns go to dine.  Abuctors wait.....one enters via patio door, the other watches over and then goes around to front. Person inside drugs child with sedative but then disturbed by GM.......hides in closet. GM leaves, abductor opens window, picks up child and passes her to accomplice. Accomplice makes away. Abductor leaves via front door. JT spots accomplice with child. Accomplice gets child out of sight before making way to other side of PDL but is then spotted by Smiths.
 
Uncomplicated and fits exactly what we know. Even allowing for the dumb PJ.
 
Simple!
 
 

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Re: Theory

Post by RBxHN on Thu May 19, 2011 7:17 pm

@Garth wrote:Yeh, wot a load of crap!

I have a far simpler one.

Two abductors watch apartment.

McCanns go to dine. Abuctors wait.....one enters via patio door, the other watches over and then goes around to front. Person inside drugs child with sedative but then disturbed by GM.......hides in closet. GM leaves, abductor opens window, picks up child and passes her to accomplice. Accomplice makes away. Abductor leaves via front door. JT spots accomplice with child. Accomplice gets child out of sight before making way to other side of PDL but is then spotted by Smiths.

Uncomplicated and fits exactly what we know. Even allowing for the dumb PJ.

Simple!


Eh come on Garth, its my turn tonight.

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Re: Theory

Post by Mini Slueth on Thu May 19, 2011 7:49 pm

Ha,

It makes more sense than what the McCanns would have us believe.

It would be interesting to see how much of this is accurate when and IF the truth does come out.

I still dont know why they tore a piece of paper from one of thebooks to write down their movements that night......Surely that would be the last thing on your mind at that particular time...when a child had gone missing.

Garth, how do you explain the boold found in the apartment etc?

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Re: Theory

Post by Garth on Thu May 19, 2011 8:27 pm

The blood wasn't Madeleines. That was a bit easy, come on!
 
With regards to the movements, so what, they weren't aware of what JT had told GM, so I guess they were putting there movements together to try and make sense of it all. Don't forget, this wasn't the McCanns. If you find it odd, then you must think the friends are incahoots with the conspiracy? Yeah right..............the plot thickens lol
 

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Re: Theory

Post by Mini Slueth on Thu May 19, 2011 8:48 pm

Garth....be gentle with me....i am just a mum who finds the mccanns story unbelievable......

anyway, whoose blood do you think it was then?

Why was there no DNA of Madeleine in that apartment? Why had Gerry to go back to England to get it? It doesnt seem right.

Yes, i do think the friends are hiding something, just going by what i have read( and i have read both sides, well as much as is out there). It could be they were all under the influence of alcohol and then wanted to account for their movements.

I also think its hard to believe that all 3 children were asleep by 7.30pm. Going by my own experiences and that of friends that have been on holiday with children. Again thats just my opinion.

I know you think they are telling the truth, but i dont. I have read a lot on here of what you have written on here, but nothing that yo uhave siad has made me change my mind and i suppose its the same for you........you still believe they are innocent. We can agree to disagree

Honestly, i have tried to give them the benefit of the doubt, but so much for me doesnt add up. Not everyone that doesnt believe the McCanns is hateful or out on a witch hunt. We are merely just appalled by the actions of these parents and all the questions that i suppose we need answers to that we arent getting.

I think everyone would want Madeleine to be alive, but alas i am not sure this is gonna be the ned result in this case

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Re: Theory

Post by Obsession on Thu May 19, 2011 8:58 pm

I agree with you mini sleuth. No matter how much the McCann supporters try to change peoples' minds it doesn't change mine at all. It merely makes me question their desperation even more. The McCanns are desperate as are their supporters. It makes me wonder what they are trying to prevent coming out. The more they protest the more they don't do the McCanns any good. Innocent people don't need paid chimps, all they need to do is cooperate with the investigation. Innocent people don't need millionaires to intimidate witnesses, innocent people don't need private investigators....all they need to do is cooperate with the investigation.....and so on.

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Re: Theory

Post by Garth on Thu May 19, 2011 9:21 pm

Mini
 
I'll come back to you in a minute after I've answered this monkey
 
I agree with you mini sleuth. No matter how much the McCann supporters try to change peoples' minds it doesn't change mine at all. It merely makes me question their desperation even more. The McCanns are desperate as are their supporters. It makes me wonder what they are trying to prevent coming out. The more they protest the more they don't do the McCanns any good. Innocent people don't need paid chimps, all they need to do is cooperate with the investigation. Innocent people don't need millionaires to intimidate witnesses, innocent people don't need private investigators....all they need to do is cooperate with the investigation.....and so on.
 
No one's desperate here , as you put it my friend. Is anyone protesting apart from you?
 
Enough said on that matter.
 
Mini
 
I sometimes wonder about the anti's, you know, there complete lack of being able to tell good evidence from bad. Everything they use as evidence is subjective. But when you look at the evidence in support of the McCanns it's all there for us to see. And in that im talking about JT's sighting and that of the Smiths. A girl was abducted. And she was seen twice that night. The doubters can do nothing but come up with pathetic reasoning for both sightings. That coupled with the McCanns continuing campaign and appeal for a transparent search sort of adds weight.
 
Now, ask any anti to put a decent theory of how they pulled it of and why the need to is never forth coming. All they do is doubt. Suspicous minds I'm afraid. But you'll always get the cynics and doubters. Such fun to watch!  
 
 
 
 
 

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest001 on Thu May 19, 2011 9:46 pm

Why so simple Garth? Talk about a 'closed mind'  Having a 'closed mind' is not exactly the right way to go about finding the truth in any crime.

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Re: Theory

Post by niknaks08 on Thu May 19, 2011 10:20 pm

well said mini and obsession

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Re: Theory

Post by dragonfly on Thu May 19, 2011 10:35 pm

@Garth wrote:Yeh, wot a load of crap!
 
I have a far simpler one. (you have kept it very simple to say the least)
 
Two abductors watch apartment.
 
McCanns go to dine.  Abuctors wait.....one enters via patio door,the unlocked fire exit route for the kids the other watches not a good look out person over and then goes around to front. Person inside drugs child with sedative how are you suggesting this was done? waking her up and getting her to swallow a tablet? injection? chloroform? but then disturbed by GM....... again not a good look out person hides in closet. what closet could they fit in? did they start to re arrange the cots and move furniture about?about GM leaves, abductor opens window, from inside or out? how did they manage to do this with no noise ? put a silencer on the shutter? picks up child and passes her to accomplice.with no forensic trace ? Accomplice makes away. Abductor leaves via front door. to get out the front door you would need a key unless you are suggesting the mccanns left BOTH doors unlocked? JT spots accomplice with child. how do you explain her egg man no details to then a full description? Accomplice gets child out of sight before making way to other side of PDL but is then spotted by Smiths. they snatch a child and nearly get caught by Gerry but then choose to stroll round pdl in circles ? Can you be more specific regarding your theory with time lines ?
 
Uncomplicated and fits exactly what we know. Even allowing for the dumb PJ.
 
Simple!
 
 

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Theory

Post by Marian on Thu May 19, 2011 10:44 pm

Garth I must admit that the theory that started this debate had me groaning in disbelief after a while but I'm not too keen on yours either. You seem to have accepted the British media spin that the Portuguese police are useless but, having read the latter's report and realising all the work they put into the case, I know which of the two organisations is the more believable one. It's not the British media to avoid any doubt! Can I ask you how you became interested in this case and how soon did you become convinced that all those people who question the official version are wrong? This is just a matter of interest, as for me I came to the conclusion that things were not as they seemed about two years ago.

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Re: Theory

Post by Garth on Fri May 20, 2011 8:06 am

Marian
 
Read Kate's book and get a true account from someone who observed first hand, the poor way in which this case was handled. This was not just the opinion of her, this was the opinion of many people, including the British police.
 
So no, it's not media spin, it is fact. And maybe when some people get to grips with the problems in the early stages of this investigation, any 'normal thinking' person can see how this case became confusing and misleading to the general public.
 
Other than the so-called 'spin' as you put it, tell me what doesn't fit the abduction theory as briefly suggested. With regard to the poster who questions how the child may have been sedated, suggesting waking her up and giving tablets, you will understand why I cannot be bothered answering posters with that mentality.
 
At least you appear to be logical in your reasoning and therefore a worthy debater. They appear to be few and far between on here as I'm sure you will have noticed. But things could change!

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Re: Theory

Post by ufercoffy on Fri May 20, 2011 8:08 am

@Garth wrote:Marian
 
Read Kate's book and get a true account

spit coffee

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Re: Theory

Post by LittleMissMolly on Fri May 20, 2011 8:31 am

Garth perhaps you would like to explain how Kate's "true" account of her check when she realised Madeleine was gone in her book differs significantly from her "true" account of the same situation in their Channel 4 documentary.

I would have thought that the details would be etched into her mind .... or at the very least that she would explain how it came to be changed so significantly sarcastic

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Re: Theory

Post by NewGuest on Fri May 20, 2011 8:42 am

Reply to Garth’s posting of 6.11 pm on 18th May
Two  abductors watch
apartment


... for a week. They see the parents going out each night
leaving the doors locked and the children unattended.  They can’t believe their luck that the parents
could be so negligent.  So one is placed
as a look out, just in case a parent happens to come and check, and to make
sure the coast is clear....



abducts child .... and then one abductor spends 45 minutes
between Jane Tanner’s sighting and the Smith’s sighting wandering around with
the child. And the other one – well, we don’t know what happens to
them – they saunter off down the street. Doesn’t matter, abduction done.


Yes, equally plausible – the other theory seems far fetched,
but so does yours.
We don’t know what happened – so one theory is as good as
another.

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Re: Theory

Post by DocMartin on Fri May 20, 2011 8:43 am

bravo

It's taken a while for the penny to drop, but clearly Garth, Ringo and the ex-SAS boys are actually Mccann sceptics on a wind up mission.

You had me fooled boys

woohooo

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Re: Theory

Post by Baronstu on Fri May 20, 2011 8:44 am

This theory is as valid as any other theory. It can only stand if it can pass the scrutiny of the known facts (of which there aren't many).
The main reason I personally would reject it, is it does not give any reason for the "pact".
If the events transpired as described, why would the rest of the group agree to a cover up?
I believe that Madeleine met her demise on the evening of the 3rd, as a result of a practice that ALL the group was engaged in, using some medication to ensure that their Children went to sleep, and, stayed asleep so as not to inconvenience them.

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Re: Theory

Post by NewGuest on Fri May 20, 2011 9:02 am

Baronstu -  re the sedation - more or less what I think too. All the kids were being routinely sedated - hence no need to bother to check or only spasmodically. I think it's this which the doctors in the party are trying to cover up - misuse of drugs and negligent parenting.

It does puzzle me how 9 people could maintain a conspiracy - sooner or later someone will give the game away - hence the need for a pact of silence.

What a can of worms Kate's book has reopened!

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 9:14 am

There is evidence that Madeleine died before May 3rd, hard copy evidence. If you are interested in hearing about it, first go to the library section and look at the creche thread. Take a closer look at the entry for Madeleine McCann signed in by by Gerry, then look at the handwriting for the Naylor entry. Study the handwriting closer and you will see many similarities, especially with the slant of the writing, the phone numbers and the all important letters.

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The Theory

Post by Marian on Fri May 20, 2011 9:29 am

Garth, as I've said before to another McCann supporter Ringo, it doesn't do anyone's cause any good (no matter what it might be) if people insult those who disagree with them. I won't add to the debate on what could or not have happened as, interesting as it may be, it is just a matter of personal opinion. I wouldn't mind knowing though, as I mentioned before, how you first got into this case and became convinced that there's no mystery, at least not as far as the McCanns and their friends are concerned.

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Re: Theory

Post by dragonfly on Fri May 20, 2011 10:00 am

@Garth wrote:Marian
 
Other than the so-called 'spin' as you put it, tell me what doesn't fit the abduction theory as briefly suggested. With regard to the poster who questions how the child may have been sedated, suggesting waking her up and giving tablets, you will understand why I cannot be bothered answering posters with that mentality.
 
At least you appear to be logical in your reasoning and therefore a worthy debater. They appear to be few and far between on here as I'm sure you will have noticed. But things could change!

Gareth , You have bailed out at the first hurdle, your theory has collapsed and you, use the excuse of not answering due to my mentality of questioning , I have only put your own theory back to you, by asking which option did the 'abductor' use in sedating a child? I was giving you the options of sedation ,This is your theory not mine. thumbsup

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Re: Theory

Post by Baronstu on Fri May 20, 2011 10:01 am

Stella
I appreciate where you're coming from, but, it just doesn't fit.
Aside from my previous comment about the pact, if they had more than an hour or two, they would of perfected THEIR scenario. The first thing that they would of done is made sure that there was no doubt in anyones mind that they WERE checking the Children. The abduction theory relies on that.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 10:34 am

@Baronstu wrote:Stella
I appreciate where you're coming from, but, it just doesn't fit.
Aside from my previous comment about the pact, if they had more than an hour or two, they would of perfected THEIR scenario. The first thing that they would of done is made sure that there was no doubt in anyones mind that they WERE checking the Children. The abduction theory relies on that.

Hello Baronstu. I remember you from way back and it's good to see you here.

"The Pact". I agree with you, this pact did exist and it was needed to keep a tight lid on "The Truth of The Lie".

"Perfected Their Scenario". Now this is where it gets very interesting indeed. The term blundering idiots springs to mind, but I think nerves and the fear of being caught created a few set backs on the night. All they had to do was to raise the alarm at 10.00pm, which they did. It was only afterwards that we have come to realise that they made quite a few mistakes. Kate with the window, her prints found, but denying she ever touched it. Gerry 'the apartment was left locked', no sign of a break in, then his story changed to leaving the apartment unlocked. The Sutter was forced, but no signs of this. For me the one person who gave the game away as soon as the statements were released was Dianne Webster, when the first thing she said to Fiona after Kate allegedly screams "She's gone", was "what do you want me to do". What should she do, is a sign that orders had to be followed that night. Yes, anyone looking looking in would think that it was pretty much a last minute plan. I think the details of the final hours were very much a last minute decision. Perhaps one or many of the group were reluctant to go along with it.

"Checking the children". I am one of a few who believe that none of the children were ever left alone each night. I believe they were all being looked after in the Payne apartment and they took it in turns to look after all of them. Someone from the group was missing each night and there is some evidence in one or two statements that might suggest this. But on the last night, we can see that others stepped up to help "check". Matt Oldfield himself said something like, 'as it was the last night, I thought it would be a nice thing to do, to check on their children'. How did he know it was going to be the last night? Adults seen leaving a table, does not necessarily mean that children were being checked on !!

In my opinion, the creche sheets will be their downfall. They never in a million years, ever thought they would get released to the entire world, for all to see. What it shows is, that the deception started as early as the 29th, the day after they arrived. The big question is why did it need to start 5 days before the alarm was raised?

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Re: Theory

Post by TheAcademic on Fri May 20, 2011 10:42 am

candyfloss wrote:Anyone any thoughts on this theory (bit long to c & p)

http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com/p/theory-english.html

@Garth wrote:Yeh, wot a load of crap!
 
 

A bit too close to the truth for you is it?

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