LAST DAY OF LIBEL TRIAL 8th July 2014 DISCUSSION AND NEWS

Bishop Brennan wrote:Actually this part of the court transcript from Joana Morais is more of a concern:

"... the McCann couple - have requested the court to solicit an official application to ATA [Autoridade Tributária Aduaneira] i.e. the Portuguese equivalent to the IRS, in order to obtain confidential fiscal information.

The Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro authorized and ordered for the dispatch to be prepared “since it is essential to know, within the scope of the case being analysed here at the court, what are the eventual earnings” of the defendant Gonçalo Amaral regarding the sales of the book ‘Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira’.  "


That, to me, sounds ominous. The claims are for fixed amounts of money (we are told) per person.  Why then would the earnings be of relevance?

jeanmonroe wrote:Questions:

Have the McCanns been totally 'mis-leading' the Great British 'public' and indeed ALL people that have 'visited' their FindMadeleine 'website', these past 7 YEARS, by only portraying a MAN (Tannerman) as a 'suspect' 'seen' carrying off Madeleine, by JT?

With GM's er, um, REVELATORY 'introduction', yesterday, 8th July 2014, of a SHE, as a possible 'predator/abductor' WHY is there no e-fit, similar to TannerMAN, of this supposed 'she' predator/abductor prominately displayed on the McCann's Official FindMadeleine website?

Why has NO ONE, not even the McCann's themselves, ever said that the Great British public or anyone in the world should 'look out/search for' a WOMAN (she) 'suspect' who could of 'abducted' Madeleine?

All very ODD, imo.

GM's 'he, she, they' totally aimed at the T7!

all imo, obviously.

jeanmonroe wrote:Questions:

Have the McCanns been totally 'mis-leading' the Great British 'public' DONATORS to their 'fund' and indeed ALL people that have 'visited' their FindMadeleine 'website', these past 7 YEARS, by only portraying a MAN (Tannerman) as a 'suspect' 'seen' carrying off Madeleine, by JT?

With GM's er, um, REVELATORY 'introduction', yesterday, 8th July 2014, of a SHE, as a possible 'predator/abductor' WHY is there no e-fit, similar to TannerMAN, of this supposed 'she' predator/abductor prominately displayed on the McCann's Official FindMadeleine website?

Why has NO ONE, not even the McCann's themselves, ever said that the Great British public or anyone in the world should 'look out/search for' a WOMAN (she) 'suspect' who could of 'abducted' Madeleine?

All very ODD, imo.

GM's 'he, she, they' totally aimed at the T7!

all imo, obviously.

BlueBag wrote:Bishop Ellis Primary school is 2.7 miles from Rothley.

School bus fire Bishop Ellis primary school.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/School-bus-blaze-drama/story-12072629-detail/story.html

They use coaches.



We also have a named coach driver in the article.

Popcorn wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:Questions:

Have the McCanns been totally 'mis-leading' the Great British 'public' DONATORS to their 'fund' and indeed ALL people that have 'visited' their FindMadeleine 'website', these past 7 YEARS, by only portraying a MAN (Tannerman) as a 'suspect' 'seen' carrying off Madeleine, by JT?

With GM's er, um, REVELATORY 'introduction', yesterday, 8th July 2014, of a SHE, as a possible 'predator/abductor' WHY is there no e-fit, similar to TannerMAN, of this supposed 'she' predator/abductor prominately displayed on the McCann's Official FindMadeleine website?

Why has NO ONE, not even the McCann's themselves, ever said that the Great British public or anyone in the world should 'look out/search for' a WOMAN (she) 'suspect' who could of 'abducted' Madeleine?

All very ODD, imo.

GM's 'he, she, they' totally aimed at the T7!

all imo, obviously.

I seem to recall that one of their detectives (the one with enormous hands) did suggest that the "man" Jane Tanner saw might be a woman. This was around the time they were publicising the Posh Spice lookalike in Barcelona as a key suspect. Indeed, "Posh" is still on their website as an unidentified person they wish to identify.

jozi wrote:

Bishop Brennan wrote:Actually this part of the court transcript from Joana Morais is more of a concern:

"... the McCann couple - have requested the court to solicit an official application to ATA [Autoridade Tributária Aduaneira] i.e. the Portuguese equivalent to the IRS, in order to obtain confidential fiscal information.

The Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro authorized and ordered for the dispatch to be prepared “since it is essential to know, within the scope of the case being analysed here at the court, what are the eventual earnings” of the defendant Gonçalo Amaral regarding the sales of the book ‘Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira’.  "


That, to me, sounds ominous. The claims are for fixed amounts of money (we are told) per person.  Why then would the earnings be of relevance?

Yes quite but it says further down that they can appeal !!!


...Earlier on this year, the only defendant party opposing the McCann’s fiscal request was the lawyer for the Guerra e Paz book publishers who argued that this new application would cause an unnecessary lengthening of the trial.

So why is GA's lawyer not appealing ?

sallypelt wrote:

candyfloss wrote:

candyfloss wrote:LizzyF ‏@scrantlings  11 mins
Ben Thompson on today's court proceedings. #mccann https://www.facebook.com/groups/JusticeForMadeleine/permalink/655601457869265/ …

Can someone please let us know the gist of this. ^^^^^

Sent the link to my daughter who  has a Facebook account, and this is what she has sent me:

Well I thought I'd seen it all from the McCanns, but dear me, the figure Kate cast in front of the judge today was even more pitiful than that she cuts on Lorraine Kelly's sofa each year. What was most striking though was the sheer lack of thought behind each and every answer she gave. Asked by the judge whether she had ever suffered from depression, the answer she gave was no, but then went on to waffle on about how depression can come in many forms, I'm guessing a lack of cash in her rear pocket couldn't be diagnosed officially as depression, much to her dismay. Kate was quiet in her responses but flashed the forlorn look over to the clearly unimpressed judg
As a witness for the prosecution goes she was hardly man of the match. Asked about the how the book had affected Sean and Amelie, Kate mentioned the fact that child psychologist, Dave Trickey, had advised them to answer any questions the children might have. Asked if either of the twins had queried anything, Kate stated that Sean had asked if they killed Madeleine, when given the answer she said he just moved on, followed by her trademark curl of the lips. Wow! Just like Kate and Gerry did when Madeleine asked why they didn't come when her and Sean were crying 7 years ago. Kate also mentioned the fact that the McCanns have an internet media monitoring unit. No surprises there hotlips, though nice of you to confirm it to those who have been tormented by your "friends" for speaking the truth

more to follow

Bishop Brennan wrote:

jozi wrote:

Bishop Brennan wrote:Actually this part of the court transcript from Joana Morais is more of a concern:

"... the McCann couple - have requested the court to solicit an official application to ATA [Autoridade Tributária Aduaneira] i.e. the Portuguese equivalent to the IRS, in order to obtain confidential fiscal information.

The Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro authorized and ordered for the dispatch to be prepared “since it is essential to know, within the scope of the case being analysed here at the court, what are the eventual earnings” of the defendant Gonçalo Amaral regarding the sales of the book ‘Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira’.  "


That, to me, sounds ominous. The claims are for fixed amounts of money (we are told) per person.  Why then would the earnings be of relevance?

Yes quite but it says further down that they can appeal !!!


...Earlier on this year, the only defendant party opposing the McCann’s fiscal request was the lawyer for the Guerra e Paz book publishers who argued that this new application would cause an unnecessary lengthening of the trial.

So why is GA's lawyer not appealing ?

Hard to know if Amaral will appeal (they have 10 days in which to do so) - I suspect not.   Overall, I read this as a deliberate attempt by the McCanns to significantly delay the trial.  It is now adjourned without a date set and the earliest is likely to be some time in September.   Perhaps they believe they will now lose this case, and so from their point of view they wish to inflict maximum damage on Amaral.  The best way to do that is to leave his assets frozen as long as they possibly can - and delay the bad publicity that will head their way if the judge rules against them.  

Five Star wrote:If a lie detector was taken, they could show their  kids the results,.... that would help alot imo

ultimaThule wrote:

candyfloss wrote:

sallypelt wrote:

VeraWannabe wrote:Just back in...probably missed loads! Is there a transcript of the court hearing yet? Link anyone please?

VeraWannabe, read Candyfloss's thread on the Update of the Libel Trial.

Yes all here for those in a hurry to read latest, the very last post is the courtroom write up...........


https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t10004-updates-only-libel-trial-8th-july-2014

IMO this account should come with a warning that it has been selectively compiled and commented on by a writer who is clearly not well disposed to the McCanns (other than their socks, is there any that are?   ) and that it cannot be relied on to be an accurate account of the proceedings although it may be that parts, at least, will tally with the official transcript or with one which has been meticulously produced by Anne Guedes.

It occurs to me that as well having become objects of derision, the McCanns have of late also become figures of fun.  For this parlous state of (their) affairs they should look no further than Clarence Mitchell, who has spun so with such force that the wheels have come off the TM bus and it would be a supreme irony if Sean's bus to school becomes responsible for yet more disastrous coverage of the libel trial for them.

Bishop Brennan wrote:Actually this part of the court transcript from Joana Morais is more of a concern:

"... the McCann couple - have requested the court to solicit an official application to ATA [Autoridade Tributária Aduaneira] i.e. the Portuguese equivalent to the IRS, in order to obtain confidential fiscal information.

The Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro authorized and ordered for the dispatch to be prepared “since it is essential to know, within the scope of the case being analysed here at the court, what are the eventual earnings” of the defendant Gonçalo Amaral regarding the sales of the book ‘Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira’.  "


That, to me, sounds ominous. The claims are for fixed amounts of money (we are told) per person.  Why then would the earnings be of relevance?

jozi wrote:

Bishop Brennan wrote:Actually this part of the court transcript from Joana Morais is more of a concern:

"... the McCann couple - have requested the court to solicit an official application to ATA [Autoridade Tributária Aduaneira] i.e. the Portuguese equivalent to the IRS, in order to obtain confidential fiscal information.

The Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro authorized and ordered for the dispatch to be prepared “since it is essential to know, within the scope of the case being analysed here at the court, what are the eventual earnings” of the defendant Gonçalo Amaral regarding the sales of the book ‘Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira’.  "


That, to me, sounds ominous. The claims are for fixed amounts of money (we are told) per person.  Why then would the earnings be of relevance?

Yes quite but it says further down that they can appeal !!!


...Earlier on this year, the only defendant party opposing the McCann’s fiscal request was the lawyer for the Guerra e Paz book publishers who argued that this new application would cause an unnecessary lengthening of the trial.

So why is GA's lawyer not appealing ?

MRNOODLES wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:Questions:

Have the McCanns been totally 'mis-leading' the Great British 'public' and indeed ALL people that have 'visited' their FindMadeleine 'website', these past 7 YEARS, by only portraying a MAN (Tannerman) as a 'suspect' 'seen' carrying off Madeleine, by JT?

With GM's er, um, REVELATORY 'introduction', yesterday, 8th July 2014, of a SHE, as a possible 'predator/abductor' WHY is there no e-fit, similar to TannerMAN, of this supposed 'she' predator/abductor prominately displayed on the McCann's Official FindMadeleine website?

Why has NO ONE, not even the McCann's themselves, ever said that the Great British public or anyone in the world should 'look out/search for' a WOMAN (she) 'suspect' who could of 'abducted' Madeleine?

All very ODD, imo.

GM's 'he, she, they' totally aimed at the T7!

all imo, obviously.

Plus Gerry's ill thought out mutterings of the predator may strike again could have the twins s***ing bricks.  They've been told the abductor took maddie while they slept. So therefore it's not too much of a stretch for them to think, 'are they coming back for us at some point?'

Bishop Brennan wrote:Actually this part of the court transcript from Joana Morais is more of a concern:

"... the McCann couple - have requested the court to solicit an official application to ATA [Autoridade Tributária Aduaneira] i.e. the Portuguese equivalent to the IRS, in order to obtain confidential fiscal information.

The Judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro authorized and ordered for the dispatch to be prepared “since it is essential to know, within the scope of the case being analysed here at the court, what are the eventual earnings” of the defendant Gonçalo Amaral regarding the sales of the book ‘Maddie, A Verdade da Mentira’.  "


That, to me, sounds ominous. The claims are for fixed amounts of money (we are told) per person.  Why then would the earnings be of relevance?

petunia wrote:

stillsloppingout wrote:

Just catching up 
IMO the reason Gerry was desperate to get his dogs point over , [and the real reason why he is there ] is  he has been tipped off by somebody in the chain of command at SY, and he is attempting a pre emptive strike to shape the publics perception because the point he raises  would be published in the British press . 
The Media monitoring is no surprise . they are on here all the time . [ sometimes writing long winded reply's !! ] i can usually spot them a mile off . one was being pedantic with me the other day. 

 BTW on that note i will PM Candy floss the reason [ who and why i am confident the mc's were swingers . ]

SSO  i don't give a bugger if the Mccann's are swingers every one to there own i say,if you want to swing then swing, what i want to know is what caused there Daughter to disappear in Portugal.

Libel trial Day 12 Kate McCann deposition text from PDF 08-07-2014
Libel trial McCann v Gonçalo Amaral - Day 12 – Kate McCann's deposition

The hearing as it happened
(08.07.2014, 9:45am)
The judge Maria Emília de Melo e Castro starts by asking the lawyers for the defence whether they intend to speak out about a request that was made by the plaintiffs on the 26th of June. They say they give up.
The judge then refers to the fact that the plaintiffs appealed against the decision not to hear the parties whereas Gonçalo Amaral didn't and that therefore only Gerald and Kate McCann will be heard to-day.
The judge finally clarifies what was her first point: the plaintiffs had asked for information about the financial situation of GA on the 6th of January but didn't obtain it, Dra Isabel Duarte having requested on the 26th of June a Court's order for the Autoridade Tributária e Aduaneira (HM Revenue and Customs) to disclose confidential documents concerning GA.
The judge decides to grant this request, which was opposed only by the Guerra&Paz lawyer who finds it unnecessary and increasing the delay up to the end of this trial. The plaintiffs have ten days to obtain the documents and release them to the tribunal.
Therefore the hearing scheduled for this afternoon (Dra Duarte) and the hearing on the 10th (the defence lawyers) will have to be postponed. Sine die, because of

1) the tribunal holidays (starting on 16 of July and ending on 31 of August) and


2) A new judiciary organization that will be implemented in the whole country in the beginning of September.

Statement of Kate McCann
The first plaintiff to be heard is Kate Healy (name on her passport). Standing, as any witness did, she indicates her identity, address, profession (says she is a doctor but doesn't work any more), etc. Finally the judge claims that the plaintiff is here to make a statement on some facts of this trial. The plaintiff is expected to speak the truth about those points. Then she's invited to sit down.
The statement that the new CPC authorises is in fact not a voluntary and deliberate oral deposition, but consists of replying to the judge's questions. After that questioning, the lawyers are invited to submit their own questions, but those are themselves questioned by the judge who will reformulate or possibly reject some of them.

Judge – Do you remember when you first learnt about the book by Gonçalo Amaral and when you read it?
KMC learnt that the book existed through the media and read parts of it that were quoted. She read it completely around the end of 2008.
Judge – How did you feel when you read the book?
KMC says that she was devastated. She already had an idea of what was in that book, but when she read it all she felt desperate because of the injustice against her and her family as a whole and also felt anxious because of the damage that this book was causing to Madeleine. She gives as an example the fact that the book accuses her and her husband of being somehow involved and of faking an abduction. The book smears her and her husband throughout.
Judge – What data are you now referring to?
KMC says that the book had many negative effects in Portugal. She says that this book sounds credible and if people believe what it says, that Madeleine is dead, they will not search for her and bring more information about her. She says that it is a particularly serious matter that such a theory is published in Portugal, because it is from there that Madeleine disappeared.

Judge – Do you remember the documentary?
KMC says that Portuguese and non Portuguese friends told her that it had been horrible, they didn't dare to tell her on the night it was broadcast, but the following day they gave her details.
Judge – Did you happen to watch it?
KMC says that she watched it when it was available on the Web.
Judge – What new element does this documentary bring? How did you feel watching it compared to what you felt when you read the book?
KMC finds that the destructive power of the documentary is bigger, it is yet more damaging.
Judge – Did you feel worse and why?
KMC explains that the documentary is more definitive and cutting than the book. She felt despair because of the injustice towards her family as a whole and she was anxious that it would damage the search since there was no official investigation and they were the only ones working very hard. As it was jeopardising their efforts, she felt pain and fear.

The Judge asks whether KMC knows about an interview given by Gonçalo Amaral to the Correio da Manhã, whether she remembers a particular interview.
KMC remembers an interview about the documentary, she remembers in particular one where it was said that Madeleine was dead, that they had kept her body in a freezer and transported it in the car boot.
Judge asks how KMC was made aware of the interviews.
KMC replies that she has friends in Portugal and that those friends sent her the articles and indicated the essential points.
Judge – When did you learn of that interview?
KMC doesn't remember the date but thinks it was soon after... (Suspended voice)
Judge – How did you react?
KMC says that her friends in Portugal were a big support.

Judge – How do you feel concerning the perception that the majority of Portuguese are against you?
KMC says that negative claims are very distressing and bothering.
Judge – Do you feel rather uncomfortable, ashamed?
KMC replies that "ashamed" is not quite the right word for it. She clarifies that it makes her lose confidence.
Judge asks whether she suffered because the people thought that they were cowards for having hidden the body.
KMC, after a silence, says that people thought much worse than that.

Judge – Did that cause you insomnia?
KMC says that it happened obviously, but that she isn't no more as she was, destroyed. She says that she cried, that the book brought her pain and emotion while she was desperate to find Madeleine.

Judge – Do the twins know about the book, the documentary?
KMC answers that of course they use computers at school and at home and she has to be very careful and try to supervise the information they get.
Judge – Do they have a global idea about what people say?
KMC mentions that her son, in October asked her why Mr Amaral said that they hid Madeleine. She answered that there were many stupid things in his book.
Judge – How did your son know about that? How was it possible if you were careful to prevent access to the book?
KMC thinks he heard it on the radio, in the school bus.
Judge – So what did you do?
KMC says that they spoke to David Trickey who advised them to let the twins make comments and just answer when they ask questions. She says that they had to contact the school in case a child would tell the twins about something that is in the book. She says that the book is noxious for adults and must be even more damaging for children.
Judge asks if KMC had a depression.
KMC says no, but of course she had been depressed.
Judge – Clinically?
KMC – No.
Judge – Did you publicly say that you wished you were in a coma to forget the pain?
KMC – Yes.
Judge – In what circumstances? Was it linked to the disappearance of Madeleine or to the book and the documentary?
KMC replies that the pain was increased by the book.
The judge asks how old the twins are (9) and when they started school (2009).

Isabel Duarte (for the plaintiffs) – Was there a reaction to the book and the documentary in the UK?
Judge reformulates but keeps the question
KMC says that there were a bit less reactions than in Portugal and that it was because of the media who accepted what the book said and published reports upon it. People on the Web and through e-mails were stimulated to insult them, like the Madeleine Foundation, and created a lot of damages. As Gonçalo Amaral was the coordinator of the investigation, it provided him credibility and it intensified the vilification of them.

Judge – What is the Madeleine Foundation?
KMC explains that it's a group of people who essentially promotes theories up to the point of trying to manipulate people in their village.
Judge – What relation is there between this group and the book?
KMC says there is none, but they invited Gonçalo Amaral. She thinks that he didn't go.
Judge – This group was created because of the book?
KMC – No, it existed before the book was published. She says that obviously the book strengthened them.

Isabel Duarte says she wants KMC to speak of the threats. The judge asks from who, from where, but as Isabel Duarte doesn't known the judge rejects this question because it is not within the scope of the trial.

The judge gets back to the conversation with Sean and asks whether he left it at that.
KMC says it occurred only then, after that they followed the Trickey's advice.
Judge – Did Sean speak again to you about it?
KMC – No.

Gonçalo Amaral's new lawyer, Miguel Cruz Rodrigues, wants to know what caused more distress to KMC.
The judge rephrases – What disturbed you more: the disappearance of your daughter, the fact you were made arguido or the reason for this trial, i.e the book and the documentary?
KMC says there's nothing worse than the abduction of a child, but that the rest intensified the pain and that there are limits to what a person can bear.

MCR mentions the topic of the social (image) destruction. The judge confirms that it is an issue to establish or refute.
Judge – Did you have the support of famous people like Angelina Jolie?
KMC says that she has no idea about Angelina Jolie, but knows that renowned people supported them.

MCR mentions a celebration that gathered 20 thousand people in order to pray on the 8th of December 2008
http://www.blackburncitizen.co.uk/news/3959495.Thousands_join_East_Lancashire_group_s_prayers_for_Madeleine_McCann/
KMC doesn't remember and asks where it was.
MCR says it was in the UK.
KMC says that there are obviously people who pray.

MCR mentions that KMC became an ambassador for Missing People in July 2012. Judge repeats the question.
KMC – Yes.

MCR mentions a gala party in January 2010 to commemorate 1000 days. Does she remember?
KMC – Yes.

The judge tells KMC that she's free to leave or to remain in the Court room. She remains there, sitting next to her lawyer.
And so it ended