Re: Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

by Rob Royston 09.07.12 20:25

They made a huge mistake when they leaned on Cameron to push the enquiry. We will probably never get the real story, but it will all be packed away soon, one way or the other.

by Cristobell 09.07.12 20:29

russiandoll wrote: Textusa blog makes me angry regularly because while it is often a wonderful read, the dense cryptic style assumes people have the time to decipher the talking in riddles and the underlying message is that readers have to be ultra- smart to get the message. There are many intelligent analytical people who visit there and are simply too busy with their lives to devote the time needed to absorb what is often a simple point made in hundreds of words when a few dozen would do. I do not like the feeling I get there that it is like belonging to an ultra-exclusive little club.
I posted a couple of days ago I think Birch is stirring the pot, I have not changed my mind, the $64,000 question is what is motivating him and what is his ultimate objective?

I struggle with Textusa too, especially all the black hat and white hat stuff..........

by Cristobell 09.07.12 20:30

Rob Royston wrote:They made a huge mistake when they leaned on Cameron to push the enquiry. We will probably never get the real story, but it will all be packed away soon, one way or the other.

Do you think it was a case of 'be careful what you wish for?'

by Guest 09.07.12 21:46

Cristobell wrote:
Rob Royston wrote:They made a huge mistake when they leaned on Cameron to push the enquiry. We will probably never get the real story, but it will all be packed away soon, one way or the other.

Do you think it was a case of 'be careful what you wish for?'

I think they probably knew it was going to happen anyway, sooner or later, and also they have to be seen to be doing the right thing by their supporters. They need their financial backer(s) to take on Mr Amaral.

by Woofer 09.07.12 22:27

Textusa has pointed out something that crossed my mind when I saw the clock counter registered at 05.09.06. Surely it would have been lighter in that garden on the 23rd June. Sunrise on 23rd June in that area was 05.16 but I think thats standard time. With daylight savings in Portugal, the clocks go forward so it would have been 06.16 and probably the darkness level would be about right for an hour before sunrise.

But then I wondered if Birch had synchronised the counter for Portuguese time as Cape Town doesn`t modify its time for daylight savings, but Portugal does. Also Portugal is an hour ahead of Cape Town in its time zone. So now I`m in a terrible muddle ! But I think I`m saying that he should have taken an hour off his counter to synchronise with Portugals time. So the darkness level is about right.

Sorry guys - just confused myself good and proper !

by monkey mind 09.07.12 22:42

Woofer wrote:Textusa has pointed out something that crossed my mind when I saw the clock counter registered at 05.09.06. Surely it would have been lighter in that garden on the 23rd June. Sunrise on 23rd June in that area was 05.16 but I think thats standard time. With daylight savings in Portugal, the clocks go forward so it would have been 06.16 and probably the darkness level would be about right for an hour before sunrise.

But then I wondered if Birch had synchronised the counter for Portuguese time as Cape Town doesn`t modify its time for daylight savings, but Portugal does. Also Portugal is an hour ahead of Cape Town in its time zone. So now I`m in a terrible muddle ! But I think I`m saying that he should have taken an hour off his counter to synchronise with Portugals time. So the darkness level is about right.

Sorry guys - just confused myself good and proper !

At the begining of his Capetalk Radio interview Birch states he flew to London to meet with his attorney and also to hire a ground penetrating radar machine. From London he flew to Portugal to meet up with his cohorts.

by Woofer 09.07.12 22:46

monkey mind wrote:
Woofer wrote:Textusa has pointed out something that crossed my mind when I saw the clock counter registered at 05.09.06. Surely it would have been lighter in that garden on the 23rd June. Sunrise on 23rd June in that area was 05.16 but I think thats standard time. With daylight savings in Portugal, the clocks go forward so it would have been 06.16 and probably the darkness level would be about right for an hour before sunrise.

But then I wondered if Birch had synchronised the counter for Portuguese time as Cape Town doesn`t modify its time for daylight savings, but Portugal does. Also Portugal is an hour ahead of Cape Town in its time zone. So now I`m in a terrible muddle ! But I think I`m saying that he should have taken an hour off his counter to synchronise with Portugals time. So the darkness level is about right.

Sorry guys - just confused myself good and proper !
At the begining of his Capetalk Radio interview Birch states he flew to London to meet with his attorney and also to hire a ground penetrating radar machine. From London he flew to Portugal to meet up with his cohorts.

Ah ha - that solves that one - thanks Monkey Mind.

by bristow 09.07.12 23:09

The only way to end all the speculation is for the powers that be to excavate the garden ASAP, it would be total madness not to, otherwise there will be more people taking the law into their own hands, sneaking in and digging and rumours and speculation for ever.
ETA, For reasons selfish to the tourist trade it would be in their interests to excavate, I'm quite sure it would put off many potential holiday makers if they thought a child was buried in their vicinity.
(Perhaps that is what Birch is hoping, does he have property developing interests in that area?)

I am still inclined to believe that Birch is onto something though, I don't think he is a loony.

I wonder what he means by the following though ..

"He says his scans clear show a cavity and an object in the cavity. He
says that the cavity is 400-600mm under the driveway on the property. He
claims that the location of the cavity is consistent with previous
investigations findings".

Was the cavity mentioned in 'previous investigations findings' then?

by Liz Eagles 09.07.12 23:51

I think Mr Birch's actions are quite wrong. He has not only invaded the privacy of (and probably scared) an elderly lady by covertly trespassing on her property on several occasions, he has compromised the search for Madeleine imo. The Portuguese and UK police are damned if they do or damned if they don't excavate the garden now. His actions have potentially opened a floodgate that any person can interfere with an investigation and demand their findings be dealt with immediately by going to the press. Does he consider there is a place for mavericks in the investigation? I seriously question his motives and would love to hear how exactly he thinks what he has done/is doing is of any benefit to finding justice for Madeleine.

by Oh come on 10.07.12 0:34

I found this clip of a discussion on Antena 3 (Spain)

.http://www.antena3.com/programas/espejo-publico/noticias/empresario-afirma-haber-dado-cuerpo-madeleine-mccann_2012070600027.html

Someone might like to translate it in full. Basically it outlines what has been printed about Stephen Birch.

In the pnnel discussion someone states that Murats property had construction work ongoing at the time of MM disapearance. I don't know if there is any evidence for this.

The panel seem to be of the opinion that Mr Birch is a bit of a fantasist.

by **tigger** 10.07.12 6:22

bristow wrote:The only way to end all the speculation is for the powers that be to excavate the garden ASAP, it would be total madness not to, otherwise there will be more people taking the law into their own hands, sneaking in and digging and rumours and speculation for ever.
ETA, For reasons selfish to the tourist trade it would be in their interests to excavate, I'm quite sure it would put off many potential holiday makers if they thought a child was buried in their vicinity.
(Perhaps that is what Birch is hoping, does he have property developing interests in that area?)

I am still inclined to believe that Birch is onto something though, I don't think he is a loony.

I wonder what he means by the following though ..

"He says his scans clear show a cavity and an object in the cavity. He
says that the cavity is 400-600mm under the driveway on the property. He
claims that the location of the cavity is consistent with previous
investigations findings".

Was the cavity mentioned in 'previous investigations findings' then?

There is a topic on the 'hidden' cellar in Villa Liliana on this site somewhere. Imo that can go into the same file as Birch's efforts.
The only useful thing he's done is to bring the possibility of Maddie being dead into the public domain. It doesn't seem to have worked very well, as the tabloids aren't running it.

There is no earthly reason for any police force to dig up that garden imo. In the shortest possible time you'll have any number of cranks pointing out definite burial sites elsewhere.
The PJ did a thorough job on the villa - I don't even believe Birch has been there. As he mentions previous findings, perhaps he's seen the PJ report?

I prefer to take the police evidence as read - after all, it's their job. The statements by the witnesses and arguidos are where the truth lies hidden amongst the lies and the unanswered (literally) questions.

by sweetex 10.07.12 6:56

I slept over all of this, and I'm not so sure about this anymore. I will be surprised if anything comes from this, for 2 main reasons:

1) Even though he was online, he did not answer any questions posed to him. I do not expect him to share any confidential stuff, but at least he could have acknowledged the questions. Unless it is not him

2) Money

We have a documentary programme (Carte Blanche) that runs every Sunday. I expect they will have him on the programme soon, just as they had the others, (Danie Krugel and apparently Martin van Wyk). I will definitely keep my eyes open as to when, and will make sure to watch it.

by joyce1938 10.07.12 9:36

I read an article on another site yesterday , martin van wyk,sister wrote to the effect thatbirch was very insistent to be envolved with birch ,and in fact he had discovered it firstand did some of the work ,then after both were to go together in sept. birch went before as far as i can recall,without vanwyk hence sister is mad about it .so be interesting to see outcome of this . some maybe right when they feel we cant even be sure it was on RMproperty.hope some here will readand see how they feel about ,as ever its as confusing as ever,i wouldnt say i could believe both complete stories of their conclusions. joyce1938

by joyce1938 10.07.12 9:40

sorry if that sounde a bit confused,i meant birch got in with martin van wyk ,he had done work on this a lot earlier i believe,joyce1938

by Meagain 10.07.12 10:43

I know some of you get a little twitchy about one other particular forum, but if you can put a brave head on and visit it you will find a thread that gives a very interesting account of this affair.

They don't bite over there and by reading this forum and that one you tend to get a more rounded and fuller picture. It's probably what has helped me stay firmly on my "let's wait and see" fence for these last five years!

K.

by jozi 10.07.12 12:32

Meagain wrote:I know some of you get a little twitchy about one other particular forum, but if you can put a brave head on and visit it you will find a thread that gives a very interesting account of this affair.

They don't bite over there and by reading this forum and that one you tend to get a more rounded and fuller picture. It's probably what has helped me stay firmly on my "let's wait and see" fence for these last five years!

K.

What forum are you talking about Meagain, there are so many to choose ?

by Guest 10.07.12 12:37

I strongly suspect that it's JATYK2 but, unless the harpies there have mended their ways and have stopped hurling insults, it's hard to see how they can add anything positive to the debate.

by jozi 10.07.12 13:21

Jean wrote:I strongly suspect that it's JATYK2 but, unless the harpies there have mended their ways and have stopped hurling insults, it's hard to see how they can add anything positive to the debate.

I had a strong suspicion they meant that too LOL.

by roy rovers 10.07.12 13:55

JATYK2 ? Never visited it or any other so called 'pros' forum. I came to this one because I was suspicious of this case from the off based on the facts. IMO the 'pros' need their heads examined and I don't need to waste my time reading their Mccann / media spun drivel.

by Meagain 10.07.12 18:16

roy rovers wrote:JATYK2 ? Never visited it or any other so called 'pros' forum. I came to this one because I was suspicious of this case from the off based on the facts. IMO the 'pros' need their heads examined and I don't need to waste my time reading their Mccann / media spun drivel.

The don't go there and read - it's personal choice.

K.

by tuom 10.07.12 20:01

sweetex wrote:I slept over all of this, and I'm not so sure about this anymore. I will be surprised if anything comes from this, for 2 main reasons:

1) Even though he was online, he did not answer any questions posed to him. I do not expect him to share any confidential stuff, but at least he could have acknowledged the questions. Unless it is not him

2) Money

We have a documentary programme (Carte Blanche) that runs every Sunday. I expect they will have him on the programme soon, just as they had the others, (Danie Krugel and apparently Martin van Wyk). I will definitely keep my eyes open as to when, and will make sure to watch it.

Must say I agree with you sweetex , he has had his 15 mins and it looks like its not going anywhere , it looks like he did not get the attention he was hoping for for .

by Guest 10.07.12 22:29

This is apparently updated.............case reopened...........

Win‏@winnower1

http://soundcloud.com/567-capetalk/stephen-birch-update Stephen Birch audio #McCann Claiming PJ want him to fly back to Portugal / case reopened.

by Guest 10.07.12 22:41

Nanny‏@MyNanny25
@winnower1 @veniviedivici #StephenBirch it appears is now ex friend of #Africa Martin Van Wyk this Murat 'plan' was for September. #McCann

The plan was for Septemberhttp://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/mccann-stephen-birch-common-thief.html #McCann

by ProfessorPPlum 10.07.12 22:49

This cannot get any dirtier can it? Is it true what I'm hearing that Missing People have hired Clarence Mitchell to do their PR? WT-royal-F????

by tuom 10.07.12 22:52

candyfloss wrote:This is apparently updated.............case reopened...........

Win‏@winnower1

http://soundcloud.com/567-capetalk/stephen-birch-update Stephen Birch audio #McCann Claiming PJ want him to fly back to Portugal / case reopened.

Interesting ! Is he for real , Stephen Birch sounds very confident , I wonder if this will go anywhere , there seems to be so much happening regarding MMC all of a sudden Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 16 3139096799

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 16 3139096799

by Guest 10.07.12 22:52

ProfessorPPlum wrote:This cannot get any dirtier can it? Is it true what I'm hearing that Missing People have hired Clarence Mitchell to do their PR? WT-royal-F????

Don't think so, haven't seen that anywhere, isn't he the PR for PACT?

by uppatoffee 10.07.12 22:53

candyfloss wrote:This is apparently updated.............case reopened...........

Win‏@winnower1

http://soundcloud.com/567-capetalk/stephen-birch-update Stephen Birch audio #McCann Claiming PJ want him to fly back to Portugal / case reopened.

Not quite yet! Birch says he spoke to the senior directorate of the Portuguese Police, and they have apparently submitted a proposal to the Prosecuting division and they are awaiting permission to reopen the case.

He says that he sent the information to the McCanns direct as well as to the police. Not quite what Kate said this morning!

He was again very emphatic that Murat was innocent.

Curiouser and curiouser!

by Liz Eagles 10.07.12 22:53

ProfessorPPlum wrote:This cannot get any dirtier can it? Is it true what I'm hearing that Missing People have hired Clarence Mitchell to do their PR? WT-royal-F????

Do you have links to/proof of CM being hired?

If you do, I really am in need of antacid.

by Liz Eagles 10.07.12 22:55

uppatoffee wrote:
candyfloss wrote:This is apparently updated.............case reopened...........

Win‏@winnower1

http://soundcloud.com/567-capetalk/stephen-birch-update Stephen Birch audio #McCann Claiming PJ want him to fly back to Portugal / case reopened.

Not quite yet! Birch says he spoke to the senior directorate of the Portuguese Police, and they have apparently submitted a proposal to the Prosecuting division and they are awaiting permission to reopen the case.

He says that he sent the information to the McCanns direct as well as to the police. Not quite what Kate said this morning!

He was again very emphatic that Murat was innocent.

Curiouser and curiouser!

He (Birch) also said he had no contact with the McCanns.

by Guest 10.07.12 22:56

uppatoffee wrote:
candyfloss wrote:This is apparently updated.............case reopened...........

Win‏@winnower1

http://soundcloud.com/567-capetalk/stephen-birch-update Stephen Birch audio #McCann Claiming PJ want him to fly back to Portugal / case reopened.

Not quite yet! Birch says he spoke to the senior directorate of the Portuguese Police, and they have apparently submitted a proposal to the Prosecuting division and they are awaiting permission to reopen the case.

He says that he sent the information to the McCanns direct as well as to the police. Not quite what Kate said this morning!

He was again very emphatic that Murat was innocent.

Curiouser and curiouser!

Thanks uppatoffee, for the resume, Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 16 636506