Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

No apologies needed Tigger, the statement looked ambiguous on a first reading...anyway, you are entitled to your opinion so don't say sorry !

Lord alone knows what is going on, but it is a fact that after weeks of silence on certain blogs, the Horrocks piece was republished prior to this explosive news story re Birch. I hope this has now not descended into a disgusting case of game playing by rival factions with people being paid to feed stories to the press. I do not understand the deafening silence from a couple who have had no credible leads re their missing daughter for 5 years, nor from the UK media who love a sensational story, nor from the police, although it is possible maybe even probable, that the 2 forces are working together on this issue without making a statement.
The implications of Birch's words are shocking. The problem is the reports, with words attributed to him for which there aren't direct quotes. He does not believe Murat is involved for one, he wants to bring closure to the family another, a suspicious individual helping Gerry yet another. All stated by the media but not by him in the interviews I heard.
He has now explained how he had access without the threat of those dogs in one news report today.

from Steel Magnolia

McCann: Stephen Birch Now Refers To Robert Murat As 'The Suspect'
This has McCann written ALL Over it !

"OK I am going to risk it and speak to the officer I spoke with at Scotland Yard ( nothing to do with Op.Grange). I will send him the article from Paulo Reis on how McCann and Co. tried to frame Murat. It is time someone understand the evil at play here."

I have to comment again that there is no direct quote and it appears that the writer of this piece has, as did writers of the early Birch stories, referred to Mr Murat as " the suspect".

I thought SM was shocked into silence last week? Where has the voice come from all of a sudden, Joana Morais another one......very strange.

Stephen Birch's intervention is symptomatic of a new level of interest in the case and a widespread international perception that something is seriously strange about it. Even if there is nothing under Murat's drive this is going to be an interesting year IMO. SB appears prepared to end up in court and he has a heavyweight legal team. So has Pat Brown for her trial and Tony Bennett may have a barrister (let's hope so!) for his trial. Amaral's trial is also coming up in Portugal. Then there are the SY and PJ reviews. I have been involved in commercial civil litigation in the past (fascinating) and the pattern is heavyweight posturing followed by carnage in court. As I've posted previously this is going to end suddenly (though when is anyone's guess) and its not going to be pretty. The gloves are coming off.

I see we have a Stephen Birch who has joined the forum today.

Lady-Heather wrote:
Agreed to some extent. But I think that you are concluding that it was material (fluids) from Madeleine that was found in the car boot. A claim that even the FSS (prior to being shut down..) could not conclusively make:

"In his message to Det Supt Stuart Prior, head of the British side of the inquiry, Mr Lowe said a sample from the boot of the McCanns' hire car, which they rented 24 days after Madeleine went missing, contained 15 out of 19 of her DNA components. But he cautioned that this result - based on the controversial "low copy number" DNA analysis technique which uses very small samples - was "too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion". The expert said the components of the missing girl's DNA profile were not unique to her - in fact some were present among FSS scientists, including himself. "We cannot answer the question: is the match genuine, or is it a chance match?.".

This is really very ambiguous is it not?

So the "low copy number" technique uses very small samples of DNA. Logically speaking, if one has 15 out of 19 markers, then one would expect that the smaller the sample of DNA then the smaller the chances of this extremely high percentage occurring.

"The expert said the components of the missing girl's DNA profile were not unique to her.." Does anyone have unique DNA? I should imagine every last drop of my 'personal DNA' is shared with someone or other on the planet. It is it's configuration which makes it unique to me.

The fact that some of the FSS staff and Mr Lowe himself share *some* of these markers by itself is largely irrelvant. As I say, Mr Lowe is ambiguous after the Brown visit. It is statistics which make DNA evidence both significant and unique, it is a way of gauging their uniqueness. Did Mr Lowe or any of his FSS staff carry all 15of those markers. I'll hazard a very healthy guess that the answer to that question is a big fat "No". And the question naturally follows, then what are the odss statistically speaking of one of your staff carrying all 15 of those markers? Then we would have an idea as to the true value and significance of those markers. If we wanted to be deadly accurate and nail Mr Lowe to the wall we should ask what are the chances of someone having all 15 of those markers if we took from that person an equally small sample of DNA from them as found in the boot of that car? Now that really would tell us how unique that DNA is. What's more, Mr Lowe knows it yet fails to mention it......

candyfloss wrote:I see we have a Stephen Birch who has joined the forum today.

I'd assume that if Stephen Birch is so interested in the case than what he says, he would have been already part of the forum. Unless under a different name.

Well I look forward to hearing what he has to say about what he has found and why he has decided to publish his findings if he is the same person. I think that there are a lot of questions that people have about this story. Hopefully he can answer them.

ShuBob wrote:But it was from a human being. That's a very important point.

Very important ShuBob. And we have a human being that was missing at the time and is still missing 5 yars later, coupled with the highly trained dog who will alert only to the presence of a human corpse indicates the presence of such in that boot at the very location of the body fluid, and Mr 'eye-for-detail' Birch dismisses without explanation these facts as though a mere irrelevance. As I stated yesterday, his words on a subtle level are corroborating much of the official line, including RM as suspect.
Here’s a thought. Perhaps RM is being slapped into line, a little shot across the bows, maybe someone is worried he may get chatty for whatever reason....

Gillyspot wrote:From Steel Magnolia
"McCann: Stephen Birch Now Refers To Robert Murat As 'The Suspect'
This has McCann written ALL Over it !


Birch said an extensive 15 months of research led him to the suspect's back yard in June.

IMO, he may be just referring to the fact that Robert Murat was once a suspect.

Really not sure the Mcs are behind this story, their reaction in not begging the PJ to dig the backgarden up has been an own goal if so.

Candyfloss, I sincerely hope it is the same Stephen Birch. I'm sure we all have some questions for him and we'll all be interested in listening to his thoughts and answers....

monkey mind wrote:Candyfloss, I sincerely hope it is the same Stephen Birch. I'm sure we all have some questions for him and we'll all be interested in listening to his thoughts and answers....

According to admin it seems to be, although he was on earlier but logged out now. It would certainly be good if he could give us some answers to our questions.

candyfloss wrote:

monkey mind wrote:Candyfloss, I sincerely hope it is the same Stephen Birch. I'm sure we all have some questions for him and we'll all be interested in listening to his thoughts and answers....

According to admin it seems to be, although he was on earlier but logged out now. It would certainly be good if he could give us some answers to our questions.

Perhaps we should start a new thread "Questions to Mr Stephen Birch", where members could place their questions and Mr Stephen Birch if he feels like it, could answer them. That way they will all be in one place and save choking up other threads if he decides to speak. Not all questions will relate to the radar findings, as I have indicated, one or two of the things he has said have caused an eyebrow or two of mine to raise, I'd love to hear his explanations.....

I see Birch has NOW made allowance for the Murat guard dogs. He failed to mention them before, only concentrating on the claim that he sneaked into the property once the humans were out.

This guy is a joker IMO!

Monkey Mind
Forgive me.
It was a brilliant idea, so...
I have started a thread as you suggested, using your title

Let us hope it develops into a thoughtful list, and that he is minded to respond.

PeterMac wrote:Monkey Mind
Forgive me.
It was a brilliant idea, so...
I have started a thread as you suggested, using your title

Let us hope it develops into a thoughtful list, and that he is minded to respond.

How can we verify its him?

PeterMac wrote:Monkey Mind
Forgive me.
It was a brilliant idea, so...
I have started a thread as you suggested, using your title

Let us hope it develops into a thoughtful list, and that he is minded to respond.

Ah thank you Peter, much obliged.

There were two South Africans working at the OC/MW resort during the time she went missing. I saw their statements under the McCannPJ files long time ago when I started reading the files. I can't find them now Can anyone assist, or remember something like that? It was a young couple. The guy was working either at the restaurant, bar and his girlfriend had another job there.

ETA: found it - Martin van wyk

OLD article.

http://truthformadeleine.com/2009/12/another-south-african-madeleine-finder-arrives-in-portugal/

Very interesting

sweetex wrote:There were two South Africans working at the OC/MW resort during the time she went missing. I saw their statements under the McCannPJ files long time ago when I started reading the files. I can't find them now Can anyone assist, or remember something like that? It was a young couple. The guy was working either at the restaurant, bar and his girlfriend had another job there.

ETA: found it - Martin van wyk

OLD article.

http://truthformadeleine.com/2009/12/another-south-african-madeleine-finder-arrives-in-portugal/

Very interesting

Yes, I notice Steel Magnolia has just put up this link ..........

Nanny‏@MyNanny25

#McCann S #Africa - Maddie is dead and buried near here. Martin Van Wyk.http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com.es/2011/06/she-is-dead-and-buried-near-here-martin.html

I saw a weird message on the pro site which triggered my memories.

Dont' know if I should paste it here though.

But it seems Martin and Birch know each other.

sweetex wrote:There were two South Africans working at the OC/MW resort during the time she went missing. I saw their statements under the McCannPJ files long time ago when I started reading the files. I can't find them now Can anyone assist, or remember something like that? It was a young couple. The guy was working either at the restaurant, bar and his girlfriend had another job there.

ETA: found it - Martin van wyk

OLD article.

http://truthformadeleine.com/2009/12/another-south-african-madeleine-finder-arrives-in-portugal/

Very interesting

From the comments section on the above link....

105
Aquarius Says:
July 9th, 2012 at 4:09 am
Hi Liz

From ‘Wyksie’s sister’ … have you been watching the news lately? You might be shocked to know that the person who ‘claims’ to have found her stole this evidence from us. Yes, Mr Stephen Birch, now former friend who so desperately wanted to come on board and accompany Martin on his next trip this September, seems to have ‘jumped the gun.’

So from one nut to another … keep reading the papers.

Yours truly

Nanny‏@MyNanny25
Update Phil #McCann contacted Martin Van Wyk #Africa - Looks like old Phil thinks Maddie is in PDL http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.com.es/2012/07/mccann-stephen-birch-now-added-to-south.html

the whole Martin van Wyk fairy tale is surely nonsense until the dogs finding are cleared up?! and in that case, the same could be said for Mr Birch's theory!!.

monkey mind wrote:

Lady-Heather wrote:
Agreed to some extent. But I think that you are concluding that it was material (fluids) from Madeleine that was found in the car boot. A claim that even the FSS (prior to being shut down..) could not conclusively make:

"In his message to Det Supt Stuart Prior, head of the British side of the inquiry, Mr Lowe said a sample from the boot of the McCanns' hire car, which they rented 24 days after Madeleine went missing, contained 15 out of 19 of her DNA components. But he cautioned that this result - based on the controversial "low copy number" DNA analysis technique which uses very small samples - was "too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion". The expert said the components of the missing girl's DNA profile were not unique to her - in fact some were present among FSS scientists, including himself. "We cannot answer the question: is the match genuine, or is it a chance match?.".

This is really very ambiguous is it not?

So the "low copy number" technique uses very small samples of DNA. Logically speaking, if one has 15 out of 19 markers, then one would expect that the smaller the sample of DNA then the smaller the chances of this extremely high percentage occurring.

"The expert said the components of the missing girl's DNA profile were not unique to her.." Does anyone have unique DNA? I should imagine every last drop of my 'personal DNA' is shared with someone or other on the planet. It is it's configuration which makes it unique to me.

The fact that some of the FSS staff and Mr Lowe himself share *some* of these markers by itself is largely irrelvant. As I say, Mr Lowe is ambiguous after the Brown visit. It is statistics which make DNA evidence both significant and unique, it is a way of gauging their uniqueness. Did Mr Lowe or any of his FSS staff carry all 15of those markers. I'll hazard a very healthy guess that the answer to that question is a big fat "No". And the question naturally follows, then what are the odss statistically speaking of one of your staff carrying all 15 of those markers? Then we would have an idea as to the true value and significance of those markers. If we wanted to be deadly accurate and nail Mr Lowe to the wall we should ask what are the chances of someone having all 15 of those markers if we took from that person an equally small sample of DNA from them as found in the boot of that car? Now that really would tell us how unique that DNA is. What's more, Mr Lowe knows it yet fails to mention it......

Exactly, we're probably a little off topic here, but Gerry said in one of the Swedish interviews that 'of course there was DNA of Maddie in the car because their DNA was also there' - (not a litt. quote) implying that DNA is like a lot of smarties. Well, it isn't as Monkeymind points out.
15 out of 19 markers is sufficient for the courts in the UK. Those markers would be unique to Maddie.
After GB's visit the second FSS report is full of inconsistencies and vague indications.
All the staff at these labs are DNA profiled to prevent contamination in samples.

That the samples were thrown away because they were contaminated is the biggest lie of the whole DNA evidence in this case.
Such evidence is never thrown out as future techniques may be able to retrieve original DNA. As in the case of Stephen Lawrence, where 15 years later the tiniest drop of blood was sufficient to convict one of his killers.

http://regretsandramblings.com/2012/07/09/stephen-birch-interview-youtube/

To me its not important which one of Mr van Wyk or Mr Birch found the evidence. This is something they can sort out bewteen themselves. It is more important to know whether they are true or not.

I have serious doubts about them at the moment. Because according to above article and the comments, Leicester police and PJ have been aware of this for a lot longer than last week.

sweetex wrote:http://regretsandramblings.com/2012/07/09/stephen-birch-interview-youtube/

To me its not important which one of Mr van Wyk or Mr Birch found the evidence. This is something they can sort out bewteen themselves. It is more important to know whether they are true or not.

I have serious doubts about them at the moment. Because according to above article and the comments, Leicester police and PJ have been aware of this for a lot longer than last week.

Interesting that they are equally suspicious of Mr Birch's findings and motive.

One of the comments: someone with the nickname Justiceseeker.

"As for those who are really interested in the case and not in some trees allegedly planted on the property of Robert Murat in Praia da Luz and Maddies burial place now covered with tarmac on the same premises but in new developments, please kindly note that I have been successfully busy to collect additional material on behalf of Brian Johnson for his book «Faked Abduction». And we also followed Gerry McCanns advice « Ask the dogs». We did it again, and their answers were a real eye opener. You will find them in the book."

Might I ask if whoever on this forum received the e mail from SA ,passed the info included in it to any police force, or was it simply taken on trust that the person contacting the forum had also let the police have the information?

with thanks to Textusa....a long post but a good read. [the bold text is my highlighting.]

JUST SILLY.

Silly is silly. Best be ignored.

But sometimes one sees something silly and one feels that one has to act, for example, intervening when a child is doing something silly before she hurts herself.

There’s a difference between having to act and feeling impelled to do so. Sometimes people do silly things just to provoke a reaction.

And that’s what’s happening lately in the Maddie Affair with this Birch episode.

Let’s first just look at how silly this silliness is.

Remember how easy it was do debunk the “SIC Mediums” silliness with our posts Just SIC(K)... Or Maybe Not and Desperate Disinformation?

Well this one is slightly easier to debunk its silliness.

Notwithstanding it’s a rather farfetched idea that someone who isn’t known to have shown, at least up until now, any interest in the case, to fly thousands of miles, hire a machine, trespass a backyard, where apparently there are 2 big dogs, 4 times in the middle of the night, and fly back to South Africa; there’s a physical reality that proves this individual is not exactly being precise in what he's saying: the Summer Solstice which happened on June 20th this year.

As we can see, the South African gentleman seems to have stated that he trespassed Murat's house between 05.00 and 06.00. The print screen below seems to confirm that fact:


It shows that the image was apparently captured at 05:09:06 on the 23rd of June.

We’re talking just 3 days after the day with the longest time of daylight of the year. At that time the daylight is not what is seen in videocap below:


So it’s silly, completely and absurdly silly.

But it’s the third absolutely silly episode in a very short amount of time. The first was the “SIC Medium”, the second the “SY 195 new leads” and now the “Birch Machine”, and that’s too much silliness about the same subject for it to be random.

Someone is trying to send a message and is not very much worried about the logic of which post card it’s using to send it. Anything will do.

Let’s start with what we can extract from these three episodes. Forget the silliness in them all and do concentrate on what they’re trying to tell you.

In the first episode, the “SIC Mediums”, the message was that Maddie is dead, that she died in the Apartment and the body was present in the area of the Boavista Golf Club. It implicates solely the parents and the remainder T7 and the possible involvement of John Geraghty is ambiguous leaving quite a good margin for it to be denied.

In the second episode, the “SY’s 195 new leads” the message is clear: the British Police officially state that there’s enough new evidence for the case to be reopened and the fact that it insults the competence of the Portuguese Authorities and that the whole thing wasn’t minimally coordinated are minor details.

In this third episode, the message again insists on Maddie being dead, involves the parents and involves directly the Murats, regardless of the silly disclaimer below as it’s silly to think that somebody places a body beneath a cement coverage without the knowledge of the owners of the property:


Waters are being tested. By whom and with what objective remains unclear, but it’s now certain that muddy waters are indeed being stirred. And with the same modus operandi that has been pattern in this entire affair: shamelessness. But maybe that’s the whole idea.

Now, let’s just concentrate on this last episode, to see if we can understand something out of all this. Remember that this isn’t either for you or us. We’re all simple spectators of a game that is going on, although to call it such is an absolute understatement because it’s ruthless and fierce and the price for victory or loss is indeed significant.

First thing noted was that only the Portuguese Media, mainly Correio da Manhã, picked up the issue. In Britain, as far as we’re aware, besides the sole “Brunt crime report” on Sky News, the issue has been practically ignored.

Second thing noted is the silence from SY which is deafening and still ongoing. Correio da Manha has reported that the British Police have met to analyse the issue, but to date, not a word about it from them. Is this among the 195 new leads, or is this the 196th?

Third thing noted was the tardiness of the McCanns intervention and obvious lack of enthusiasm in it. They appear to be very reluctant and uncomfortable about the subject and not because they’re afraid of the body being found... but they do seem to be afraid.

Fourth and last thing noted was the reaction from the BHs. For a while I had to ask myself who was in disagreement that the whole thing was silly as both WHs and BHs were, strangely enough, on the same side of the fence.

But while during the “SIC Medium” episode, where the BHs remained calm and poised, during this episode they became apoplectic. They attacked GA when GA was the first to show how silly the whole thing was and even went as far as complimenting the efficiency of the ERVD dogs!

We believe that some BHs are not fully in the loop and are totally confused as to what is going on. They won't all be in the inner circle because leaks and information will be kept to minimum numbers. They are just paid to keep confusion going but they are finding themselves in contradictory positions. It's funny that they have to criticise blogs which are saying the same as them, although there is nothing remotely funny about the inner circle and what they are doing.

The BHs have found themselves in a position of knowing not who exactly to attack but needing to attack someone. So they’ve exhorted Murat, both in comments made in WH and BH blogs and forums alike, to take legal action against Birch and have highlighted, as if it was needed, all the obvious details that make the whole thing to be indeed silly.

They've acted furiously frightened and that was so telling. The amount of effort going into this hoax is remarkable and ghastly in equal measure.

This particular testing of waters had the peculiarity that for the first time it implicates non-T9: Robert and Jennifer Murat and the mysterious MJS. The first 2 we know, the latter must be hiding in the fictitious “unpublished PJ Files”.

So from Episode 1 – The SIC Mediums to Episode 3 – The Birch Machine, we have an intentional upscaling of those being involved in the silliness and with that the silliness stops to be silly, doesn’t it?

From what we gather someone wants a closure for this case. We think that the terms of “surrender” are being discussed between UK Gov and NI in a war between sharks where the goldfish simply pray and have no say.

However, in this war, there’s another shark in the game, and it seems that it doesn’t want to play any more: the Portuguese Gov. It came out scarred from the last game and it seems not to be in the humour to get involved again.

The problem is that without the third shark there seems to be no game. It holds homefield advantage on the only playing field it’s possible to play the game. If it doesn’t open its doors to the other players there's no pitch to play on, thus this pressure, both from Episode 2 – 195 New Leads and Episode 3 – The Birch Machine, to force Portugal into play.

But can the game be played without a pitch? Yes, it can. If you can’t catch goldfish with a line and a hook, you can always shoot it out of the water.

It’s silly to use a cannon to get a goldfish in a pond but sometimes one really has to do really silly things to really show the goldfish that one really means it.

And we’ve seen really silly things, haven’t we?

Textusa

5 Responses to "Just Silly"

ElementaryForce said :
Jul 9, 2012 6:12:00 PM
The alleged 'date stamp' is "120623" = 23 June 2012? Also, 2D-120623_050906 is the file name - which is editable. As such, it proves nothing more the someone has typed in that alphanumeric text.
Textusa said :
Jul 9, 2012 6:50:00 PM
Thank you for the correction E_Force. Date and certainty of same corrected in the post.
Anonymous said :
Jul 9, 2012 7:12:00 PM
I think the biggest conclusion that we can make is that the McCanns no longer control the press and are no longer in control of their fate.

Anonymous said :
Many, many of us fight to seek the truth of the case Maddie come to the attention of all and then we have a series of "humorous" to make fun games.

They want people to be with attention deficit and stop thinking.

It is interesting how 4 "humorous" claims and since 2007 are seeking and saying they know where is the body.

However, the father has defied the world: find ........ and prove ..........

So, seems that he is very sure about no body?

***

The Mcs can not control the press. But seems we have McMediaPt.

( i doubt- can be through the others)
Anonymous said :
Jul 9, 2012 7:23:00 PM
"So they’ve exhorted Murat, both in comments made in WH and BH blogs and forums alike, to take legal action against Birch"

The verb "to sue" has been the one most used since this all started. A man who openly claims to have trespassed has for sure his back covered concerning any possible legal action against him. We don't know him but he hasn't jumped out of nowhere, I'm sure of that.

Thanks russiandoll. That's about the first textusa article I've read that actually makes sense! I just don't know if they are right, I hope they are and this whole charade can finally be over.

Textusa blog makes me angry regularly because while it is often a wonderful read, the dense cryptic style assumes people have the time to decipher the talking in riddles and the underlying message is that readers have to be ultra- smart to get the message. There are many intelligent analytical people who visit there and are simply too busy with their lives to devote the time needed to absorb what is often a simple point made in hundreds of words when a few dozen would do. I do not like the feeling I get there that it is like belonging to an ultra-exclusive little club.
I posted a couple of days ago I think Birch is stirring the pot, I have not changed my mind, the $64,000 question is what is motivating him and what is his ultimate objective?