Re: 'Faked Abduction' Book - The Sun 27.01.2010

by marigold 01.02.10 15:13

Pascal wrote:I seem to remember a report about teeth being found.

Marigold no one is making moronic posts here. Everyone has an opinion.

The dogs' 'intelligence' is a sticking point for me also. But I don't swallow everything I hear on forums or read in the Sun.

It's the 'pork' posts that infuriate me, sorry but I don't consider these jibes an opinion but an attempt to discredit the dogs; dogs that have an unblemished reputation.

by vaguely1 01.02.10 15:53

They don't react to food prepared for human consumption. I wouldn't let pork posts get to you.

by aliberte2 01.02.10 16:06

Laffin Assasin wrote:Teeth

Is that an Answer to Where? Because that is an Answer to What, Not Where.

by aliberte2 01.02.10 16:07

Tony Bennett wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:Yes, just wondering if they did. Because if they're milk teeth that came from a living child then the dog would ignore then wouldn't they?
Yes, because Eddie is specifically trained only to detect human cadaverine, a chemical uniquely produced when a body has been dead for at least 90 to 120 minutes.

No, he is Not.
He Also Alters to Blood.

by aliberte2 01.02.10 16:07

marigold wrote:
Pascal wrote:I seem to remember a report about teeth being found.

Marigold no one is making moronic posts here. Everyone has an opinion.

The dogs' 'intelligence' is a sticking point for me also. But I don't swallow everything I hear on forums or read in the Sun.

It's the 'pork' posts that infuriate me, sorry but I don't consider these jibes an opinion but an attempt to discredit the dogs; dogs that have an unblemished reputation.

Well no one Has Said Anything abotu Pork, have they? I asked Where the Jersey body Parts were found and THat's it.

by aliberte2 01.02.10 16:08

Pascal wrote:I can't find anything about teeth. But just a reminder to those who ridicule the dogs findings and for those who scream ' coconut shell!!' every time it is mentioned [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I know the report is almost two years old - but it should not be forgotten.

It's not Ridiculing the Dogs to Suggest their Handler blows Their Credibility Up for Money.
The E for example, in EVRD -- Grimes Makes that Up. There is No such Term. Why does He do that?
The Dogs Can only Do so much.

by **Tony Bennett** 01.02.10 16:20

aliberte2 wrote:
Pascal wrote:I can't find anything about teeth. But just a reminder to those who ridicule the dogs findings and for those who scream ' coconut shell!!' every time it is mentioned [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I know the report is almost two years old - but it should not be forgotten.

No, he is Not. He Also Alters to Blood. It's not Ridiculing the Dogs to Suggest their Handler blows Their Credibility Up for Money. The E for example, in EVRD -- Grimes Makes that Up. There is No such Term. Why does He do that? The Dogs Can only Do so much.

Read the whole of Martin Grimes' statements in the Portuguese files, and then perhaps, aliberte2, you'll have a better understanding that Eddie was trained to look for where human corpses had been lying, while Keela was the bloodhound sent in to find the blood.

And amazingly enough - guess what? - in some of the very same locations.

The idea that Grime exaggerated for profit is as risible as claiming (as some 'pros' do, that Amaral and his men smeared manufactured cadaverine all over the place in order to falsely accuse the McCanns of hiding a body. Apart from the very absurdity of that situation, Eddie was trained to alert to real human cadaverine, not a clever chemical fake.

Let's remind ourselves that Eddie in verified testing procedures had not given a false alert in around 200 previous outings.

Amd let's also remind ourselves - and solemnly ponder - Eddie's previous acts which helped to obtain criminal convictions.

It's all in the Portuguese police files, aliberte2:

EVRD OPERATIONAL CASEWORK EXAMPLES

1. Northern Ireland, UK A missing person, last seen returning from church, on foot, in N. Ireland. The search of suspects’ 'burnt out vehicle' by forensic scientists did not reveal any evidence. A search by the E.V.R.D. identified a position in the rear passenger foot-well where the dog alerted to the presence of human material. A sample was taken and when analysed revealed the victim’s DNA. The enquiry then concentrated its efforts on the suspect and the E.V.R.D. located the body of the woman in a river-bank deposition site. Further searches identified a location where the E.V.R.D. alerted in the front bedroom of the offender’s empty next-door dwelling house. When interviewed, the suspect admitted that the body had lain in the room for 1 hour prior to disposal. Forensic teams were unable to extract any forensic evidence despite being shown the exact position.

2. Wiltshire, England, U.K. A female was abducted by her ex-boyfriend. Intelligence suggested that her ex-boyfriend had taken her to his house. A search by the EVRD of the house resulted in small blood stains being alert-indicated, and forensically confirmed as her blood. The suspect, a builder, was in possession of a van. This was searched and the EVRD dog alerted to a 'wacker plate', spirit level, and a shovel. A site was identified where the suspect had been working. The EVRD then located the body deposition site in an area of a garbage base that had been prepared by the suspect. He had returned with the dead girl, dug a grave in the centre, placed the body in the hole, replaced the spoil and then used the shovel, wacker plate and spirit level to return the ground to its original state.

3. Devon, England, U.K. A female was abducted and her whereabouts were unknown. The suspect was a bus driver. An initial search by the E.V.R.D. alerted at a location near to a sighting of the suspect in suspicious circumstances. A forensic search at the alert location revealed a small button off from the girl’s clothing in long grass.
The offender confessed to the murder and confirmed her body had been
initially temporarily placed at the dog's alert location.

4. Cornwall, England, U.K. A woman was reported missing by her partner. A search of the suspect’s house by the EVRD was conducted, and he indicated on the living room carpet. No forensic evidence was recovered. Subsequently, a diary written by the suspect was alert-indicated by the dog. The diary had written extracts stating that the offender had laid the victim on the carpet whilst dead. The diary had in fact been written by the suspect who had handled the body. This was confirmed by the offender in interview.

by Pascal 01.02.10 16:21

Perhaps 'ridicule' was too strong a word. 'dismiss' is more apt. :flower:

by vaguely1 01.02.10 16:40

Eddie is also trained to alert to blood.

Also case 4, there was no forensic back up of the dog findings as far as I can see.

by aliberte2 01.02.10 16:45

Tony, Eddie is Trained to Alert to Blood in Addition to the Cadaver Scent. That's a Fact.

by vaguely1 01.02.10 16:46

Mr Grime did explain this.

by aliberte2 01.02.10 16:52

And don't Lecture to Me to Solemnly Pondr Blah blah blah where I live there are many sets of Dogs and they are all as well trained and Regulated as Grimes' dogs - if Not More -- and when they Alert to Something and the Authorities Can't FInd Evidence to Match the Alert they Change Tactics, they Don't Call the Investigation over and Announce THey FOund Who Dun It but Can't Prove it, Buy My Book and I'll Tell Ya More.

by Laffin Assasin 02.02.10 7:15

vaguely1 wrote:
marigold wrote:
Laffin Assasin wrote:Teeth
That'll shut them up. I am sick of reading rubbish posts about pork in respect of these world class dogs.

Did the cadaver dog, or the search team find the teeth?

Do your own research. Hissyfit

by Pascal 02.02.10 12:25

I still can't find anything about teeth - although I do remember reading something. Anyone??

by vaguely1 02.02.10 12:50

There were milk teeth found.

I'm not sure whether anybody here knows whether the cadaver dog located them or not.

by jack 02.02.10 14:51

The dogs reaction is not reliable enough to be accepted by a court as evidence. Fact.

by Pascal 02.02.10 14:54

As stand alone evidence, no it isn't. But it is strong enough not to be dismissed, which is why we go around in circles about it.

by vaguely1 02.02.10 15:18

and always will because nobody will ever know. If only the police had brought them in straight away.

by Pascal 02.02.10 17:08

and eliminated the McCanns from their enquiries early on... But then who are we to change the procedure/protocol of another country?

by vaguely1 02.02.10 17:13

Eliminated or not eliminated. I have no idea if they have a procedure or protocol - it appears almost that it was an afterthought.

It would be nice to think that there would be Europe wide protocols on this type of event.

by Pascal 02.02.10 17:20

It would Vaguely. Though I guess the incident may have taken them by surprise some. Ill prepared rather than incompetent, I feel.

by Kololi 02.02.10 18:09

Hi
I believe that our legal policies and procedures are already being brought into line with Europe.

Michael Turner and Jason McGoldrick have now been in a Hungarian jail for 100 days without a trial date, and in deplorable conditions. They were deported by the UK without an extradition hearing, under the infamous Euro Arrest Warrant, and could be held for 2 years. The EAW, proudly piloted through the European Parliament by LibDem MEP Graham Watson and nodded into law by Westminster, effectively ends the famous protection in English law known as Habeas Corpus. This 800 year old legal principle ensures that Britons cannot be imprisoned without a judicial hearing – but is not part of European legal tradition.

Times are a changing - unfortunately.

Take care

by Laffin Assasin 02.02.10 18:14

vaguely1 wrote:and always will because nobody will ever know. If only the police had brought them in straight away.

Do you think the Gaspar statement should have been sent over straight away aswell ? thinking

by **Tony Bennett** 02.02.10 18:44

Kololi wrote:Hi
I believe that our legal policies and procedures are already being brought into line with Europe.

Michael Turner and Jason McGoldrick have now been in a Hungarian jail for 100 days without a trial date, and in deplorable conditions. They were deported by the UK without an extradition hearing, under the infamous Euro Arrest Warrant, and could be held for 2 years. The EAW, proudly piloted through the European Parliament by LibDem MEP Graham Watson and nodded into law by Westminster, effectively ends the famous protection in English law known as Habeas Corpus. This 800 year old legal principle ensures that Britons cannot be imprisoned without a judicial hearing – but is not part of European legal tradition.

Times are a changing - unfortunately.

Take care

Yes, a situation that eurosceptics have been warning about for years, but very few listened.

by aliberte2 02.02.10 19:44

Laffin Assasin wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:and always will because nobody will ever know. If only the police had brought them in straight away.

Do you think the Gaspar statement should have been sent over straight away aswell ?

Amaral stated in an Interview that he was Aware of It in May, he Just Couldn't be Bothered to Follow it Up.

by Cath 02.02.10 20:27

mr Amaral also wrote in his book "There is nothing incriminating in his past and, as we were able to verify, he has no criminal record." So who's investigated him and when?

by bellatrix 05.02.10 14:33

bellatrix wrote:Re the photo of the McCanns coing out of church-was there video footage of it? In what context was it taken? I mean what had preceeded it? Had a journalist fallen over? Was a child acting up? What followed the picture? How long did the smiles last? A snapshot is a second in time and imo not always a true reflection of events.People tell me I smile my biggest and brightest smile when I am dying inside-a defence mechanism?

Is anybody able to answer this please?

by **Jill Havern** 05.02.10 14:40

bellatrix wrote:
bellatrix wrote:Re the photo of the McCanns coing out of church-was there video footage of it? In what context was it taken? I mean what had preceeded it? Had a journalist fallen over? Was a child acting up? What followed the picture? How long did the smiles last? A snapshot is a second in time and imo not always a true reflection of events.People tell me I smile my biggest and brightest smile when I am dying inside-a defence mechanism?

Is anybody able to answer this please?

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by Guest 05.02.10 15:05

jkh wrote:
bellatrix wrote:
bellatrix wrote:Re the photo of the McCanns coing out of church-was there video footage of it? In what context was it taken? I mean what had preceeded it? Had a journalist fallen over? Was a child acting up? What followed the picture? How long did the smiles last? A snapshot is a second in time and imo not always a true reflection of events.People tell me I smile my biggest and brightest smile when I am dying inside-a defence mechanism?

Is anybody able to answer this please?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Blimey, never seen that before, wtf

the actual video the still pictures came from. Thanks Jill. What on earth could have been so funny on such a sad and solemn day? GM is positively laughing his head off. How could he........ how can someone who has just lost their child behave like that. bigshock

Words fail me, they really do.

by Guest 05.02.10 15:07

aliberte2 wrote:
Laffin Assasin wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:and always will because nobody will ever know. If only the police had brought them in straight away.

Do you think the Gaspar statement should have been sent over straight away aswell ?

Amaral stated in an Interview that he was Aware of It in May, he Just Couldn't be Bothered to Follow it Up.

Never heard that one before aliberte or seen the interview, do you have a link please?