Re: 'Faked Abduction' Book - The Sun 27.01.2010

by **Jill Havern** 31.01.10 10:23

I remember how Sarah Payne and Denise Bulger looked after their children went missing....absolutely heartbreaking.

Those poor children wail

Jamie still haunts me to this day because more details were given about what happened to him and it just breaks my heart to think of that tiny toddler going through that murderous ordeal.

As does Baby P wail

I cried buckets for those children and they weren't even mine - which is why I struggle to understand the smiles of, particularly, Maddie's mother Kate McCann.

by vaguely1 31.01.10 10:37

When Mrs McCann was helped physically to her seat in the church, an absolute wreck of a human being, I seem to remember that that wasn't right for people either.

I guess people have an acceptance of what's wrong or right in these situations. Based on press conference moments and court appearances, which is usually all we're provided with to judge. Very few of us, thank god, have ever been in a position to know what happens based on personal experience.

Yet according to what is supposed to have happened the McCanns ability to act is second to none - I wonder why, if this is the case, they didn't have planned behaviour for this infamous church moment. a moment when they were surrounded by cameras and people. I presumed it was because what you saw was a genuine reaction to being surrounded by caring and warm people and words that they may have found a comfort.

by **Tony Bennett** 31.01.10 10:55

vaguely1 wrote:When Mrs McCann was helped physically to her seat in the church, an absolute wreck of a human being, I seem to remember that that wasn't right for people either.

I guess people have an acceptance of what's wrong or right in these situations. Based on press conference moments and court appearances, which is usually all we're provided with to judge. Very few of us, thank god, have ever been in a position to know what happens based on personal experience.

Yet according to what is supposed to have happened the McCanns ability to act is second to none - I wonder why, if this is the case, they didn't have planned behaviour for this infamous church moment. a moment when they were surrounded by cameras and people. I presumed it was because what you saw was a genuine reaction to being surrounded by caring and warm people and words that they may have found a comfort.

Day 9 - 12th May 2007 - Outside the Roman Catholic Church in Praia da Luz, beaming and smiling - Madeleine's 4th birthday

Day 55 - 28th June 2007, Dr Gerald McCann said: “I have no doubt we will be able to sustain a high profile for Madeleine’s disappearance in the long-term”.

Day 1,000 (945 days later) - 27th January 2010 - Celebrity charity bash at Sir Richard Branson's 'Kensington Roof Gardens'. Dr McCann's self-fulfilling prophecy fulfilled.

by vaguely1 31.01.10 11:00

Tony I know all this. It still doesn't make me think that we have a right to convict people without a fair trial.

by **Tony Bennett** 31.01.10 11:08

vaguely1 wrote:Tony I know all this. It still doesn't make me think that we have a right to convict people without a fair trial.

Nobody is convicting them. We are asking questions and analysing the evidence - and, yes, that most certainly includes body language, facial expressions and planning events marking Madeleine's disappearance well into the future.

One more thing.

Given the massive expenditure on the 'search' for Madeleine, can you (or anyone else for that matter) tell me one, just one, known fact about Madeleine's abductor (always assuming there ever was one).

Bear in mind that even Dave Edgar, who was convinced that she was being held in a prison lair 10 miles from Praia da Luz in the 'lawless hills around' - and remains so according to the latest outpourings from McCann Publicity Machine Central - thinks the abductor might have been an abductress.

by vaguely1 31.01.10 11:13

I can't tell you one fact about her abductor. I can't tell you one fact about how the McCanns were supposed to have gotten rid of her either Tony.

You are indeed asking questions, nothing wrong with that. There are a lot of questions to be asked.

What happens though, is that things are stated as fact, when they're not. For example that quote further up this (?) thread about the student overdraft. It was put in to writing, handed out to the public, the quote was made, but it was attributed to a completely different question than to which it was answering.

It's this sort of misinformation that worries me. It becomes fact, people view the case using these facts. Why do people choose to confuse the situation in this way?

Who benefits from it?

Certainly not Madeleine.

by **Tony Bennett** 31.01.10 11:19

vaguely1 wrote:It's this sort of misinformation that worries me.

I see.

It's the dozen-plus alerts to human corpses and blood by Eddie and Keela that most worry me.

by vaguely1 31.01.10 11:23

Are you saying it's okay to misinform people on some things because you're sure that they did it and you want them to think that too? I'm not sure what your answer means?

by jack 31.01.10 13:01

Tony Bennett wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:It's this sort of misinformation that worries me.
I see.

It's the dozen-plus alerts to human corpses and blood by Eddie and Keela that most worry me.

Mr Bennett, could you tell me where you get the information that the dog's alerted to a human corpse. Grime refers to cadaverine contaminant? Could you stick to the facts and stop spreading misinformation.

by **Tony Bennett** 31.01.10 13:55

jack wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:It's this sort of misinformation that worries me.
I see.

It's the dozen-plus alerts to human corpses and blood by Eddie and Keela that most worry me.

Mr Bennett, could you tell me where you get the information that the dog's alerted to a human corpse. Grime refers to cadaverine contaminant. Could you stick to the facts and stop spreading misinformation.

Why was Eddie sent out there and what had he successfully alerted to around 200 times out of 200 beforehand?

The truth, please.

by vaguely1 31.01.10 13:58

You're misquoting Grime again. It does your cause no good. If the case is strong enough against them then you don't need to keep misquoting and putting a spin on things.

by vaguely1 31.01.10 14:05

IW: I think that everyone has just been incredibly impressed
with you as a couple and how you’ve dealt with this. There was a period
after a week or so where you looked as if you were almost broken and
who could not understand that? And then there seemed to be a sort of a
strength come from somewhere. Is that a fair point? Is that what
happened and what brought it about?

You translated that as :

What did you feel like when Madeleine went missing.

What's your agenda for doing this? Why can't you let the evidence speak for itself, let people make up their own minds. Why is it SO important to you that people believe?

by jack 31.01.10 16:08

Tony Bennett wrote:
jack wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:It's this sort of misinformation that worries me.
I see.

It's the dozen-plus alerts to human corpses and blood by Eddie and Keela that most worry me.

Mr Bennett, could you tell me where you get the information that the dog's alerted to a human corpse. Grime refers to cadaverine contaminant. Could you stick to the facts and stop spreading misinformation.
Why was Eddie sent out there and what had he successfully alerted to around 200 times out of 200 beforehand?

The truth, please.

Both Eddie and Keela were sent out to find evidence. They found none. isn't that incredible. Claims that Maddie died in the appt yet the two best dogs in the world found no forensic evidence. As regards your 200 claim, more misinformation from you.This refers to the fact that have not reacted to pork in 200 cases under experimental conditions.

Eddie reacted to 11 spots in Jersey .No corpses found . Fact.truth

by Laffin Assasin 31.01.10 17:00

Were Human remains found at in the Jersy case ?

Yes !

by bellatrix 31.01.10 17:01

Re the photo of the McCanns coing out of church-was there video footage of it? In what context was it taken? I mean what had preceeded it? Had a journalist fallen over? Was a child acting up? What followed the picture? How long did the smiles last? A snapshot is a second in time and imo not always a true reflection of events.People tell me I smile my biggest and brightest smile when I am dying inside-a defence mechanism?

by bellatrix 31.01.10 17:03

Tony Bennett wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:And how would they behave if she had died in an accident and they'd disposed of her body....
You might like to compare their behaviour with that of other people known to have covered up their crimes with a believeable 'cover story' [P.S. to Carter Ruck - not saying that this is what Drs G & K McCann have done]

Could you provide some examples please so I may check them out? TIA

by aliberte2 31.01.10 21:24

Laffin Assasin wrote:Were Human remains found at in the Jersy case ?

Yes !

Where?

by Laffin Assasin 31.01.10 23:06

Teeth

by marigold 01.02.10 0:09

Laffin Assasin wrote:Teeth

That'll shut them up. I am sick of reading rubbish posts about pork in respect of these world class dogs. angry

by vaguely1 01.02.10 8:20

marigold wrote:
Laffin Assasin wrote:Teeth
That'll shut them up. I am sick of reading rubbish posts about pork in respect of these world class dogs.

Did the cadaver dog, or the search team find the teeth?

by marigold 01.02.10 11:44

vaguely1 wrote:
marigold wrote:
Laffin Assasin wrote:Teeth
That'll shut them up. I am sick of reading rubbish posts about pork in respect of these world class dogs.

Did the cadaver dog, or the search team find the teeth?

These moronic posts about the dogs are extremely jarring. Quite obviously to anyone who knows the slightest thing about the dogs is aware that the dog alerts to the cadaver scent in order for a search time to dig or look in the area for evidence as a result of the alert. I think teeth would come into this catagory.

by vaguely1 01.02.10 11:48

Yes, just wondering if they did. Because if they're milk teeth that came from a living child then the dog would ignore then wouldn't they?

I can't recall if the dog found the teeth or not.

by Pascal 01.02.10 12:32

I seem to remember a report about teeth being found.

Marigold no one is making moronic posts here. Everyone has an opinion.

The dogs' 'intelligence' is a sticking point for me also. But I don't swallow everything I hear on forums or read in the Sun.

by **Tony Bennett** 01.02.10 12:37

vaguely1 wrote:Yes, just wondering if they did. Because if they're milk teeth that came from a living child then the dog would ignore then wouldn't they?

Yes, because Eddie is specifically trained only to detect human cadaverine, a chemical uniquely produced when a body has been dead for at least 90 to 120 minutes.

by Pascal 01.02.10 12:41

I can't find anything about teeth. But just a reminder to those who ridicule the dogs findings and for those who scream ' coconut shell!!' every time it is mentioned [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I know the report is almost two years old - but it should not be forgotten.

by vaguely1 01.02.10 12:51

I wish they would update those reports to explain that it wasn't skull and that the shackles were bed springs.

It does nothing for the victims of these places to overplay what was found and what went on.

I don't suppose that sells papers though [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by vaguely1 01.02.10 12:53

Tony Bennett wrote:
vaguely1 wrote:Yes, just wondering if they did. Because if they're milk teeth that came from a living child then the dog would ignore then wouldn't they?
Yes, because Eddie is specifically trained only to detect human cadaverine, a chemical uniquely produced when a body has been dead for at least 90 to 120 minutes.

Although he is trained to find blood as well - so I suppose he would be able to find them.

by Pascal 01.02.10 13:24

The horrors that went on there should not be swept away with the usual sensationalist reports. There were witnesses ready to give evidence of the abuse they had suffered - a pity they could not have their day in court.

by **Tony Bennett** 01.02.10 14:21

Pascal wrote:The horrors that went on there should not be swept away with the usual sensationalist reports. There were witnesses ready to give evidence of the abuse they had suffered - a pity they could not have their day in court.

Yes, agreed wholeheartedly, and the same of course applies e.g. to the victims of...

* Thousands of paedophile Roman Catholic priests
* The Thomas Hamilton paedophile ring which triggered the Dunblane tragedy (well played Andy Muray by the way)
* The Kincora Boys Home paedophile ring in Northern Ireland
* The paedophile ring in North Wales children's homes
* The paedophile ring in Rochdale involving Lord Cyril Smith
* The paedophile ring in Islington Children's Homes, covered up by the likes of Margarte Hodge and Harriet Harman
* The Casa Pia paedophile ring in Portugal
* The Marc Dutroux paedophile ring in Belgium...

...and to Hollie Greig.

Besides the child victims of many other adults who sexually abuse children for their own pleasure.

by marigold 01.02.10 15:10

Tony Bennett wrote:
Pascal wrote:The horrors that went on there should not be swept away with the usual sensationalist reports. There were witnesses ready to give evidence of the abuse they had suffered - a pity they could not have their day in court.
Yes, agreed wholeheartedly, and the same of course applies e.g. to the victims of...

* Thousands of paedophile Roman Catholic priests
* The Thomas Hamilton paedophile ring which triggered the Dunblane tragedy (well played Andy Muray by the way)
* The Kincora Boys Home paedophile ring in Northern Ireland
* The paedophile ring in North Wales children's homes
* The paedophile ring in Rochdale involving Lord Cyril Smith
* The paedophile ring in Islington Children's Homes, covered up by the likes of Margarte Hodge and Harriet Harman
* The Casa Pia paedophile ring in Portugal
* The Marc Dutroux paedophile ring in Belgium...

...and to Hollie Greig.

That's a frightening and horrifying list. I hope the Madeleine Mccann case won;t be an addition but I have a horrible feeling it will be.

Besides the child victims of many other adults who sexually abuse children for their own pleasure.