Re: McCanns Easter break Donegal 2007

by uppatoffee 14.12.11 7:29

Thanks for the link Lance, the McCann entries certainly seem to fit with what it says in the bewk about grandpa John losing both parents and his oldest brother Patrick before he was 16. Not sure about Hugh though, as brother Hugh was supposed to have accompanied them to Donegal for this infamous Easter break in 2007.

by Guest 14.12.11 12:51

Yes, if Uncle Hugh is the one who died in 1999, it was quite an achievement for him to go on holiday in 2007! I've never heard any mention of him as still being alive though. It would be interesting to have a list of the 29 or 46 (depending on which report you read) people who supposedly went to Donegal - wonder if any of the other tapas 7 were there!

by Daisy 14.12.11 14:56

Great finds by Uppatoffee & Lance, things are starting to fall into place nicely.

The McCann graves are interesting. From what I can gather from that link they are buried together in a family type plot? Agnes McCann (died 1943) was probably Gerry's grandmother, wife of Joe/Joesph McCann. Then we have Patrick, died 1953 (same year as his father - Joeseph). Then there's Hugh, died 1999. This is puzzling because like people have already said - Hugh is supposed to be still alive. Unless it's another Hugh McCann, but how does he fit into the above family plot? Lastly there's John McCann, died 2005 - this must be Gerry's father?

Edit: @ Uppatoffee, I'm guessing you have a subscription to genealogy records? If so could you check see if you can find any BMD records on Hugh McCann please? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 14.12.11 23:32

Hugh McCann doesn't feature on Pamalam's page of Madeleine's relatives.

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by Guest 15.12.11 13:01

Probably not the right Hugh Mccann but still it was interresting and coincidal to find this site !

Hugh McCann is a libertarian philosopher who has formulated a "non-causal" theory of action that focuses on intentions and other mental states prior to action. He argues that our motivations and desires may be reasons for our actions, but they should not be called causes.

McCann makes the relation of intentions to actions a teleological relation, rather than a causal relation. Unfortunately, describing his theory as "non-causal" suggests something outside normal physical explanation.

Read more

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by Daisy 15.12.11 13:40

Marian wrote:Hugh McCann doesn't feature on Pamalam's page of Madeleine's relatives.

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Yes, I did notice there are no photos or indeed mention of Hugh Mccann on other sites. However, I'm really baffled now. I know I definitely read (from more than one mainstream source) that he attended the 'mass family gathering' in Donegal. I'm sure I'm not the only one that recalls this? Trouble is, I've searched & searched but can't find any of the articles that gave this information. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 15.12.11 14:58

I can't personally recall hearing Hugh McCann's name anywhere other than on this site. Do we know if the whole Donegal story appeared anywhere other than the Belfast Telegraph in the early days after Madeleine's "disappearance"? It does seem to me to have been specially cooked up for the Irish market.

I'm sure that this link has been posted before (probably by me!) but it's interesting for a few reasons.

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The story gets off to a good start with the caption under the photo describing Madeleine as being with "a couple of friends". Good old Philomena is accredited with the statement about there being a group of 46 on the holiday so I think can be taken with a very large pinch of salt.

The report says that the McCanns visted every year but for once I think Kate might actually be telling the truth when she said it was the first time they had been there.

Having read through a number of Belfast Telegraph articles about the McCanns I'm now feeling extremely nauseous!

Thanks to whoever it was who explained how to put a signature after a posting. It was so easy that even I could do it!

by Lance De Boils 15.12.11 15:13

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By Anita Guidera

Tuesday May 08 2007

THE missing English toddler who disappeared from a holiday apartment in the Algarve visited Donegal with her parents at Easter.
The
east Donegal village of St Johnston which she visited with her parents
Gerry and Kate and younger brother and sister has united in prayer for
the safe return of three-year-old Madeleine McCann who police say was
abducted last Thursday night.
The family and the missing child's
great uncle Hughie and grandmother Ellen McCann spent more than a week
in The Rosses area of Donegal, staying mostly in a Bed and Breakfast in
the Dungloe area.
Ellen, nee Ferry, was born in the Crolly area
of the county but left for Scotland in the 1960's after she married
Johnny McCann from the Donegal village of St Johnston, where he used to
run a pub with his brother Hughie.
According to the current owner
of McCann's bar on the main street in the middle of the village of St
Johnston, the family were regular visitors to the area although they no
longer had relatives in Donegal.
Drinks
But a larger group than usual had travelled to Donegal at Easter, Joe Peoples said.
"They
came frequently to St Johnston and always stopped in the bar for a few
drinks and a chat although at Easter they actually stayed in the west of
the county.
"I believe Ellen came from the Crolly area of the county.
"But they called in here on their way to back to Belfast Airport and I met them all," said Mr Peoples.
The pub which had been run by the brothers had hardly changed at all in the last 25 years.
He vividly recalled the two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie and three-year-old Madeleine whom he described as "a wee dote".
Prayer
"She was just running around all over the bar having a great time, up to all sorts.
"She was a wee dote, a lovely wee girl.
"I can't believe what has happened to her," he said.
He added that as soon as he heard the name of the father of the missing girl he feared the worst.
"It is an awful thing. They must be in a terrible state.
"All we can do is pray for them and pray that she will be found safe," he said.
Joe even had his photograph taken with the entire family before they left.
"I had intended asking them to send me a copy of the photograph but I didn't and look at what's happened now," he said.
Joe said Maddie's dad Gerry was proud of his Donegal roots.
"They keep very much in touch.
"They came to St Johnston almost every year - the years they missed were few and far between," he said.
Anita Guidera
- Anita Guidera

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Joe Peoples is currently Treasurer of St Johnston Cricket
Club. He has the distinction of being the first ever person to qualify as
an umpire in the North West Cricket League not to mention being known to have
been rather young to have been an umpire! Furthermore, he became an umpire
without ever have played a Cricket match.

He officiated when the Indian Legend, Kapil Dev was bowling.
In the seventies, he officiated as umpire in two International matches.
The teams were M.C.C. and Sri Lanka.

Joe is a Peace Commissioner and manages Joe's Bar, Main
Street, St Johnston.

by Daisy 15.12.11 15:33

Thanks Lance, I knew it wasn't just a forum myth, I also remember reading it from more than the one article. Now why on earth would they do that - why make out a family member that died in 1999! was on that holiday?

Quoted from lance's post: "The family and the missing child's great uncle Hughie and grandmother Ellen McCann spent more than a week in The Rosses area of Donegal, staying mostly in a Bed and Breakfast in the Dungloe area.
Ellen, nee Ferry, was born in the Crolly area"

Edit: @ Marian, the other sister Trish? also claimed there were 46 of them on holiday.

Linda & Mark McQueen & family were also reported to have joined the Mccann clan in Donegal. More about the McQueen's here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by **tigger** 15.12.11 16:33

All these conflicting 'witness' statements and stories which do not match any visual evidence are rather reminiscent of the Tapas 7 at PdL. It seems to be part and parcel of the opening moves of the abduction.
What particularly annoys me that some of the statements re Maddie are taken verbatim from Auntie Phil re the wee little mite.
I still feel that the Donegal holiday being used so soon in the proceedings had a purpose, particularly in view of the fact that very little seems to work and that Kate herself said that it was their first visit. This time, I believe her.
I'm still fixed on Burgau and an Easter sighting in Zaival, for me, PdL was the last act of a two or three part play.

by uppatoffee 15.12.11 21:57

I also found one article that said that Maddie spent her Easter Break with her family (of 5) in a B&B in Dungloe, before joining more relations in the St Johnston area. Although this is the only place I have seen this
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I also have another which shows that Great Uncle Hughie was supposedly there too.
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Daisy I have found possible birth entries for Grandpa Johnny and Hugh.

John J McCann
Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958
birth: Jan - Mar 1937 Stranorlar
parents: O'Rourke

Hugh F McCann
Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958
birth: Jan - Mar 1943 Letterkenny
parents: O'Rourke

The two areas, Letterkenny and Stranorlar are fairly close together, joined by the N13. They are both pretty close to St Johnston. I have not been able to find anything for older brother Patrick, in terms of birth or death. Also no marriage certificate for Joseph and Agnes.

by Daisy 15.12.11 22:42

Very interesting Uppatoffee, cheers.

Perhaps Joe & Agnes never married, hence parents name 'O'Rourke' on birth records of John & Hugh? If it's true they weren't wed, Patrick could be registered under O'Rourke.

by uppatoffee 15.12.11 23:01

Daisy, the name O'Rourke just refers to the Mothers maiden name. I had just cut and paste that bit from my search results, which did not make this very clear. From about 1911 onwards, the mothers maiden name helpfully appeared on birth records. I would think it most likely they were married, I am looking to see whether Joseph had another name as this would help with the searching! I will also look for Patrick under o'Rourke, just in case!

Didn't someone say that Johnny had been born in Joe's Bar or McCanns? Or whatever it is called. I don't think Stranorlar is the nearest registration district to St Johnston, so guess that story is not true.

by Daisy 16.12.11 13:56

Ah, I see now, thanks toff.

Yeah, your guess is right, that was just another lie attributed to Joe Peoples. I did leave a message for Mr Peoples (posted a few pages back ^) asking about these untruths on the webite he contributes to (which contains more McCann lies) - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Alas, my comments were whooshed and Mr Peoples didn't e-mail me a response. He didn't want to explain why he had told these lies, that in turn lead to the Irish population being the biggest contributers to 'the fund'. Sad

by Guest 16.12.11 14:23

uppatoffee wrote:I have now seen the marriage certificate for (Grandad) John McCann and Ellen (Eileen) Ferry from 1958. John is shown as being a resident of St. Johnston, Donegal. His father, Joseph and mother, Agnes are both listed as deceased. Ellen was listed as living in Glasgow, daughter of Patrick and Brigid Ferry.

Interestingly, both John and his father were listed as Spirit Merchants. In my own family research I have found that people who run pubs are, rather unsurprisingly, called publicans on official documentation. The use of the term spirit merchant suggest more that they are dealers in wines, spirits, beers etc. So the suggestion that they ran Joe's bar seems slightly at odds with the official documentation.

Daisy, it does seem as if John McCann Senior had a connection with pubs or bars when he was living in Ireland. Perhaps he only became a joiner when he moved to Scotland in 1967.

I wonder how Ellen (Eileen) met John in the first place if she was living in Scotland before her marriage; nothing seems to be straightforward does it?

by Daisy 16.12.11 16:02

Agreed Jean, it appears he worked in the licensing trade in some guise. Although, like Uppatoffee, as a (past) keen family historian, I've found 'publican' & 'wine/spirit merchant' mean totally different things. The most probable answer is he ran an Off Licence. (when the the marriage cert was recorded)

Wonder why they left Ireland behind to move into a one bedroomed tenement block in Glasgow where SEVEN of them (+ lodgers!) were all crammed together? The photos of the 'McCann Bar' show it to be a large substantial building; if they did own it, their move to Scotland makes little sense. I don't suppose any of this is relevant, but you never know. I've uncovered some extremely interesting and revealing facts researching family history.

If what they tell us is true (I have no reason to doubt this), Eileen/Ellen was evacuted to her Grandmother's home in Burtonport, Donegal during the war - perhaps this is when she met John Mccann

by Guest 16.12.11 21:24

I think a lot of the pubs would have done carry out and for this they'd need a separate licence. It looks like the pub couldn't sustain a family so the publican was also the undertaker. The undertaker would also have a hackney licence so might have also dropped people home at the end of the night. If John McCann couldn't find any other work he'd have had no choice but to leave and find better opportunities in Scotland. I think the one bedroomed home would have been seen as temporary at the time.

by **tigger** 17.12.11 7:59

Molly wrote:I think a lot of the pubs would have done carry out and for this they'd need a separate licence. It looks like the pub couldn't sustain a family so the publican was also the undertaker. The undertaker would also have a hackney licence so might have also dropped people home at the end of the night. If John McCann couldn't find any other work he'd have had no choice but to leave and find better opportunities in Scotland. I think the one bedroomed home would have been seen as temporary at the time.

Hi Moll, haven't heard from you for a long time!
Yes, you're right. I've lived in a lovely village in Monmouthshire where the undertaker ran a tiny pub called The Cupid. Basically a kitchen table and a small bar with a very select set of locals as customers.

by Guest 17.12.11 9:19

Yes I was thinking that it's possible that Joe Peoples could be both the local pub landlord and undertaker. The trouble is that, with the porkies he's been telling about the McCanns' Irish connections, you tend to assume that everything you hear about him isn't true either.

by uppatoffee 17.12.11 10:37

Good work Marian! That's exactly what he is listed as here!
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by Guest 17.12.11 10:44

I can't claim any credit for knowing he's an undertaker Uppatoffee as this link has been supplied before by someone else, maybe Daisy. It isn't definite that he's the same man who claims to be running the pub but it's a reasonable possibility in such a small town.

by Guest 17.12.11 11:59

Sunday May 20 2007
RONALD QUINLAN

AS the search for abducted four-year-old Madeleine McCann enters its third week, a dedicated bank account has finally been set up here in Ireland to allow people to assist through donations.

Funds raised through the Madeleine McCann Appeal account at the AIB bank are to be used to help fund the ongoing search for Madeline, and to help defray the costs of legal representation for her distraught parents.

The establishment of the account has been undertaken by Donegal-based Katerina Fernandez, a close friend of the missing girl's family.

Madeleine and her parents stayed with Ms Fernandez on a recent holiday in Donegal. Ms Fernandez fondly recalled the Easter visit.

"It's very hard to take it all in. It's bad enough when it's a child you don't know. But she was here with her family. It was only a weekend, but I can still see everybody down at the beach playing rounders. I can still picture Madeleine there. It's devastating," she said.

Ms Fernandez set up the fundraising account at the AIB to maintain awareness of Madeleine's case in Ireland.

Madeline McCann Fund

AIB Account No: 07511020

Sort Code: 93-73-39

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I only found this now, not sure if anyone's seen it before.

by Guest 17.12.11 12:10

That's a new one on me Molly. I wonder if Ms Fernandez runs a B & B as the other reports say that's where the McCanns stayed!

I'm still wondering if this Donegal holiday story ever appeared in 2007 anywhere other than in Irish papers.

by Guest 17.12.11 12:31

Marian wrote:That's a new one on me Molly. I wonder if Ms Fernandez runs a B & B as the other reports say that's where the McCanns stayed!

I'm still wondering if this Donegal holiday story ever appeared in 2007 anywhere other than in Irish papers.

Despite the change in culture during the Celtic Tiger we're still Ireland of the Welcomes particularly when it comes to tracking down the Irish roots and connections of celebrities. It's a very interesting question, Marian, which did come first. The Mail ran with it as early as 12/05/07. There is more here on an extract from the Donegal News [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] But I'm pretty sure that the Irish connection was mentioned immediately in our media.

by bobbin 17.12.11 17:42

Is it at all possible that Katerina Fernandez, close friend of the McCanns in Donegal area, could be related to the Francisco Marco Fernandez, one of the McCann 'detectives' just visited by the Met in Spain.
I know its a common enough surname, but, well, does anyone have any more info ? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by bobbin 17.12.11 17:48

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I meant to add the link above to my previous post. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Daisy 17.01.12 17:44

The media reports state the McCann's visited the Rosses, Dungloe and in particular - Gweedore, where they say Eileen McCann (nee Ferry) has roots. She was apparently born in Crolly. Some articles claim she still has family there.

I wonder if Michael Ferry from Crolly, a member of a paedophile ring ooperating in those very areas mentioned above ^ is any relation to Eileen Ferry? Of course, Ferry could be a very common name in Crolly, so I make no accusations.

Sex abuse ‘rampant’ in parts of Donegal

Published on Thursday 4 August 2011 15:36

Child sex abuse is rampant in
parts of Donegal and has been for many years, according to a source
involved in social work in Donegal.

“There are concerns now that some
kind of paedophile ring involving Michael Ferry has been operating in
the Gweedore, Dungloe and the Rosses area but a high profile community
activist expressed the same concerns about another area in north Donegal
as far back as the 1990s. This stuff has been rampant for years,” the
source said.
“There are people who have been convicted for sexual
offences living and working in communities with free access to young
people. Some of them may be on the Sex Offenders Register, while others
served their time before the Register was drawn up. In either case,
there seems to be little or no monitoring of such individuals and
whether they are allowed associate with children and young people.”
The
comments were made following the arrest under Section 4 of the Criminal
Justice Act of two men in West Donegal on Monday morning. The men, who
are both in their 60s and are understood to be from Crolly and Bunbeg,
were released on Tuesday, following questioning at Letterkenny and
Glenties Garda Stations. A garda spokesperson said that neither of the
men was charged and “there are no further developments at this time”.
While
gardaí would only confirm that the arrests were made as part of their
investigation into “serious assaults”, local sources suggest that the
arrests may have related to investigations following the conviction of
Michael Ferry for the sexual abuse of four young men in Gweedore.
Locals told the Democrat that one of the men arrested had worked at a school in the area.
“People
are of the view here that the conviction of Michael Ferry won’t be the
end of it, that there is more bad news still to emerge,” one local man
told the Donegal Democrat yesterday.
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by Guest 17.01.12 18:43

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No Ferries or McCanns that I can see!

P.S. If you google Michael Ferry, Donegal there are many stories about him.

by Daisy 17.01.12 20:08

Thanks Jean. It may be nothing, but I still think it warrants investigating, Yes, I've read a fair bit about Michael Ferry. How sick that the school he carried out the abuse at gave him his job back - knowing he'd been convicted of the sexual abuse of a pupil there!

There's someone done a fair bit of work on the Ferry's from that area. I can't find what i'm looking for though included: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by uppatoffee 20.01.12 9:11

Someone posted a link to the St Johnston cemetery a while back which gave Hugh's date of death as November 1999. I have since found the death registration of a Hugh Francis McCann b 2 January 1943, d November 1999 in Manchester, England.

This fits in with the Irish birth record entry for Hugh F McCann, born March 1943 quarter, mother's maiden name O'Rourke, registered in Letterkenny. Agnes died February 1943, so it is possible that this was a result of the birth. This is also recorded as March 1943 quarter in Letterkenny.

This has to be great Uncle Hugh. However a number of newspaper articles referred to him as having been on this infamous Donegal Easter break, such as this one from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Madeleine and two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie were with their parents and their great-uncle Hughie, as well as their grandmother Eileen, also known as Ellen, who was born in the area."

I guess the use of his name in these articles was to demonstrate a strong link to the area to gain widespread Irish support, especially of a financial nature.
wft