Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

[Shhh]

Police were later seen leaving with brimming evidence bags and a wheelbarrow with a cover over it.
There was speculation the bags may contain bones which will be subjected to DNA tests.
Police spent a third day scouring the hilltop scrubland in Praia du Luz just 1,000ft from where the three-year-old vanished in 2007.

It has been reported that these remains are animal bones but how long would it take for them to come up with a proper analysis, I wonder

When dealing with small bone fragments, telling animals and humans apart is not always feasible.

I've been wondering how quick bones have been analyzed.  Press grasping at straws? Plus these dogs don't alert at animals

[Markus 2]

That is another reason why you  would think K and G might have gone to Portugal, they could have been helpful in identifying any of Madeline's clothes or items found etc.   Helping the Police.
 
I am sure GA stated that any disposal in the sea (ocean) wouldn't be possible.   That it was not even possible to throw a stone from the cliffs to reach the ocean.

A boat taking a body far out could imo be possible, but living near the ocean myself it seems the waters always give up bodies eventually.

I also believe I read that all the tides times had been taken into the equation early on.

 
  G Brook and the sighting at the  Marina

[1soapy]

I was more thinking of an unseen Gerryman, though whoever was seen (or not), I guess the dig, if genuine, is presumably based on new evidence/information, not on old hunches and generalizations or guesses, so the current dig would support any and all theories so far. It just seemed very obviously worth a look and perhaps such an open space, especially used in advance (of 3rd May), being so open, would not arrouse much investigation/suspicion as it would take time to dispose of (which is fine if you have time, but time would suggest a greater distance).

[Guest]

That is another reason why you  would think K and G might have gone to Portugal, they could have been helpful in identifying any of Madeline's clothes or items found etc.   Helping the Police.
 
I am sure GA stated that any disposal in the sea (ocean) wouldn't be possible.   That it was not even possible to throw a stone from the cliffs to reach the ocean.

A boat taking a body far out could imo be possible, but living near the ocean myself it seems the waters always give up bodies eventually.

I also believe I read that all the tides times had been taken into the equation early on.

 
  G Brook and the sighting at the  Marina

@ Markus 2 -  Since you quoted my post regarding the ocean etc.  may I kindly refer you to this thread for some additional information.    

.      https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t7405-the-george-burke-brooks-sighting-lagos-marina?highlight=g+brooke+marina.

 

[lj]

A body would wrap the case up

How? All I can see that it establishes is confirmation that she is dead. Depending on the extent of decay, an autopsy might also confirm how she died, but I don't see how it provides any more proof of anyone's guilt than already exists, such as cadaverine in 5a

Cause off death would provide a lot IMO

Assuming that its possible to determine the cause of death, what would it provide except the cause of her death? What would it prove in terms of identifying the person responsible? How would it wrap the case up?

It is amazing the information examiners can get from the remains of a murder victim.  In the tragic case of Caylee Anthony, her body was found with duct tape around her head and they discovered chloroform had been used.  

The way in which the body is laid to rest also gives clues as to who buried the child.  A parent for example, despite the heinous thing they are about to do, will ensure the body is wrapped and perhaps even given a treasured possession.  A stranger wouldn't bother with any niceities, in fact in most cases, they wouldn't bother to dig a grave, they would discard the body at the earliest opportunity.

 

To continue the Caylee Anthony story: the mother had been so nice and sensitive to put a little heart sticker on the duct tape that smothered her.




Honest to God I do believe some people are so evil they deserve worse that the old middle age type torture methods.

[Markus 2]

That is another reason why you  would think K and G might have gone to Portugal, they could have been helpful in identifying any of Madeline's clothes or items found etc.   Helping the Police.
 
I am sure GA stated that any disposal in the sea (ocean) wouldn't be possible.   That it was not even possible to throw a stone from the cliffs to reach the ocean.

A boat taking a body far out could imo be possible, but living near the ocean myself it seems the waters always give up bodies eventually.

I also believe I read that all the tides times had been taken into the equation early on.

 
  G Brook and the sighting at the  Marina

@ Markus 2 -  Since you quoted my post regarding the ocean etc.  may I kindly refer you to this thread for some additional information.    

.      https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t7405-the-george-burke-brooks-sighting-lagos-marina?highlight=g+brooke+marina.

 

Many thanks 

[Guest]

 

To continue the Caylee Anthony story: the mother had been so nice and sensitive to put a little heart sticker on the duct tape that smothered her.




Honest to God I do believe some people are so evil they deserve worse that the old middle age type torture methods.

That is so painful to read lj.    Dear God, how can such people remain among us.

[Hobs]

In crimes where the victim is found to have been covered, either wholly or partly such as the face in situ is can be an indication the victim knew the killer and also a sign of undoing the crime.

How often have we read of the victim being found wrapped in something be it blankets. bedding etc and the killer is someone known to them like partner, parent etc.

Stranger killings tend to dump them outdoors perhaps in a shallow grave or under vegetation or they publicly display them as part of their thing.

If remains are found  and there is a pink blanket or blue bag present them the mccanns have a lot of explaining to do, how did tthey get from their apartment where they were seen and photographed to next to their child's remains?

It will be interesting to see what the mccanns say or do as the search progresses, if the search heads to a sensitive area perhaps.

Since they leak more marbles than a kerplunk game i suspect LE are watching them real closely and may even be tapping phone and emails etc

[Shhh]

Local reports said “non-organic” items had been discovered close to the pit on Wednesday and is being subjected to forensic tests.
A source said: “It could be days before the significance of the items is known.
"Several are being analysed by the British team.”


So if from a child why not ask the parents if they reconise them, why take days cant be childrens clothes so the dogs may not come into it this time

If the police were suprised to find this place & didn't know of it's existence/searched before, then how can local kids have used it (overgrown) as a playground?

[Dutchgirl]

http://www.international-newspapers.net/portugal/algarve-resident.php


Posted by portugalpress on June 05, 2014


In the vice-grip of Madeleine media circus, seaside village asks “Why now?”


As the rest of the world follows every spade-thrust of police searching for Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz, the white heat of fury among locals is palpable. It’s not that people don’t want closure. Everyone wants to know what happened to Madeleine McCann on that fateful family holiday seven years ago. It is simply that no one can see any reason for the high-profile police search being called now, just as the tourist season gets underway.

“Holiday bookings have been cancelled” ... “People are staying away” ... “The village is being crucified” ... These are just some of the comments from residents and business people alike, who all say: “If the official line is ‘there are no guarantees, why the heck didn’t they come here in the winter?”

But the worst of it is that no one feels “strong enough” to come out on full record.

“It’s too political,” said one resort manager. “I am sorry, I don’t want to say anything.”

It is always like this, in this particular case where the official line has been the only line since the very beginning.

But perhaps things are changing ... One local resident, who came out fighting weeks ago but at the time asked to remain anonymous, seems to think so.

She has at last agreed to have her first name published. “Businesses are beginning to fight back,” Nana told us on Wednesday. “You should have heard the lady at the kiosk at Baptista supermarket yesterday. She’s fuming.”

Nana has seen herself become something of a celebrity for speaking out since police teams alighted on the village at the beginning of the week. She has appeared on Sky News, BBC and was being interviewed by a German reporter for German TV as we went to press.

“Luz is on the turn,” the Dutch long-time resident told us. “People are starting to ‘take back control’ and say: How dare they? How dare they come here and tell us that this needs to be done now - just as the village tries yet again to celebrate the best of what we have: the summer.

“It cannot be because the ground is soft. It is as hard as a rock! In the winter it would be softer - but no, of course, they come now. Why? We have to ask why?”

Business people who invariably ask to remain nameless complain of “crucifixion” as the world’s media follow police operations on the ground in various sites around the village.

According to press reports on Wednesday morning, search teams are planning to move on to the drainage system around the Ocean Club, which was being excavated at the time Madeleine went missing.

All these sites were investigated during the original police search but Scotland Yard’s crack team have said that nonetheless they need to go over old ground in order to rule things out.

Talking to reporters before the search began, London Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said: “I want to keep expectations down. You shouldn’t read into this that this is necessarily an end game or about to be a breakthrough of anything like that.”

Intriguingly, the Portuguese press publicised a “new theory” in its update on the excavations on Wednesday.

“Scotland Yard has moved on to the belief that Madeleine was killed in the apartment and her body hidden in the area around the Ocean Club,” writes Correio da Manhã.

“This is exactly what that poor policeman in charge of the original investigation thought,” Nana told the Resident.

“I have never met Gonçalo Amaral, but it is time people realised that seven years on, his original police work appears to have been solid.”

Amaral won a legal round in the ongoing defamation case brought out by Madeleine’s parents Kate and Gerry McCann against him last week (see story on this page), meantime, police efforts around the little village in the sunshine continue, with another tent being erected around one area of digging mid-morning on Wednesday.

According to the press, so far various animal bones have been dug up, but that appears to be the only ‘news’.

PJ police accompanying the Met are said to be “without expectations” that a body will be found.

Thus the village’s silent query “why now?” hangs steaming in the early summer heat.

By By NATASHA DONN news@algarveresident.com

PLUS:
English Police follow lead of man seen carrying child on his arms
5 June 2014 | Posted by  Joana Morais Leave a Comment

map pinched from here

Sighting referenced in the [Judiciary Police] case files was crucial for selection of site to find Maddie

by Marisa Rodrigues


The site in Praia da Luz where the British Police yesterday began the search for the body of Madeleine McCann was not chosen at random.

Seven years ago, a witness [Smith family, read statements given to Portuguese police] saw a man carrying a child in his arms in a nearby street, walking towards the beach. And, in the close vicinity, live people whom the English detectives consider to be persons “of interest”.

It was the cross-checking of this data, coupled with the fact that a vacant lot underlies both factors, that has led the police to believe that the girl's body may have been buried there.

The terrain has an extension equivalent to two football fields long. According to locals, in the 60s, a resort was planned to be erected, a project that failed. For decades nothing was built there and seven years ago, when Madeleine disappeared, it was one of the places searched by the Guarda Nacional Repúblicana (GNR) with sniffer dogs.

Restricted Access

The accesses to the search sites, situated along the Rua 25 de Abril, was cut off by the GNR, shortly after midnight. At the highest point, on the top of a hill, the GNR control post was established. It was also there that they have concentrated, starting at 11 am, all the vehicles and means, and where they unloaded the equipment needed for the operation, planned to last until Friday.

Specialized technicians of an English company made ​​the photographic and topographic reconnaissance and there were police officers traversing the area on foot. Specific areas were marked with stakes and tents were mounted on top of them.

The PJ and Scotland Yard were in a meeting for about two hours. Each one of the police officers and technicians, as well as the vehicles, authorized to be on the ground received “credentials”.

These steps are part of the British investigation, which now follows the theory that Madeleine was abducted, killed and buried in Praia da Luz. The Public Prosecutor's Office has authorized searches with sniffer dogs, georadar and also excavations. The latter should only take place if relevant evidence is found.

The action plan is decided on a daily basis, depending on the progress of the operations. The PJ is present, controls and monitors, but all the equipment, as well as dogs, are the responsibility of the British, who assume all costs. The coordinators of the PJ in Faro and Portimão, Luís Mota Carmo and Ana Paula Rito, have closely followed the operations.

Scotland Yard has already announced that they want to ask for more searches to be done in at least two other sites. The operations ended at 18:20pm and will be resumed this morning. For the time being, the police from both countries have not provided any official statements.

[Markus 2]

Local reports said “non-organic” items had been discovered close to the pit on Wednesday and is being subjected to forensic tests.
A source said: “It could be days before the significance of the items is known.
"Several are being analysed by the British team.”


So if from a child why not ask the parents if they reconise them, why take days cant be childrens clothes so the dogs may not come into it this time

If the police were suprised to find this place & didn't know of it's existence/searched before, then how can local kids have used it (overgrown) as a playground?

Portuguese newspapers reported on Thursday that this site was a disused storage box where children used to play. The shaft, measuring around 150cm x 90cm (5ft x 3ft), was covered by mounds of earth and a corrugated iron sheet, which is thought to have concealed the hole for years.
 And this is where organic items have been taken from and didnt they say it was disturbed the time Maddie went missing, if so why was it not reported at the time.

[DurhamGuy1967]

Local reports said “non-organic” items had been discovered close to the pit on Wednesday and is being subjected to forensic tests.
A source said: “It could be days before the significance of the items is known.
"Several are being analysed by the British team.”


So if from a child why not ask the parents if they reconise them, why take days cant be childrens clothes so the dogs may not come into it this time

If the police were suprised to find this place & didn't know of it's existence/searched before, then how can local kids have used it (overgrown) as a playground?

Portuguese newspapers reported on Thursday that this site was a disused storage box where children used to play. The shaft, measuring around 150cm x 90cm (5ft x 3ft), was covered by mounds of earth and a corrugated iron sheet, which is thought to have concealed the hole for years.
 And this is where organic items have been taken from and didnt they say it was disturbed the time Maddie went missing, if so why was it not reported at the time.

When / where was it said it was disturbed?

[Issy]

Another slip -up ?   If I am correct, ( please correct me if I am wrong ) we were first told they had done visual checks ?  then they it changed to hearing ones after it became known MO said he did not see Madeleine at his 9.30 check ? ......so,   (Please  bear with me )  if he did not see Madeleine but he did see the twins in their cots, then why would Kate Mccann claim the door was not as "they left it" ?   
Either they had planned to check on the children or they hadn't !  So why would she be surprised the door had been moved from where she and Gerry had left it if she ( crime watch) had allowed others to do her and Gerry's checks ?   It does not make sense for her to say the door was not in the same place as she had left it - why would she expect it be in the same position as they had left it when she KNEW others had been in there to check on their children AFTER her and Gerry had left for the tappas bar ?  

Sorry for the long winded way I have posted the above - even got on my own nerves trying to whittle it down !

Nothing either of them said about the door not being as 'they left it' ever made sense. Madeleine was quite capable of getting out of bed to go to the loo or look in another room for her mum or dad, so any change in the door's position after they'd left the apartment shouldn't have surprised them. Unless of course Madeleine was so very soundly asleep there was no possibility of her waking up ...

Sorry, I know this is off topic.

[Watching The Detectives]

Near to the pit/hide there is a plant which looks like some kind of ornamental palm. It looks a bit out of keeping with the rest of the scrubland.

Is there anyone who knows if this is a common plant on that patch of land......or could it be planted there as a marker?

[Markus 2]

When / where was it said it was disturbed?

I have seen that somewhere I will have a look back and see if I can find it. The way reports are going from Portugal and SY going over old ground , the Mcanns not even out there, I think it is all going to come to nothing.

1. Madeleine McCann: Tents Erected Over Search Area
   Sky News ‎- 1 day ago
   Police continue their search of an area of land close to where ... Police have resumed their search of scrubland in Portugal close to where ... It comes after officers began digging and brought sniffer dogs into the area in Praia Da Luz ... was disturbed seven years ago, when Madeleine McCann went missing.
   

Think this might be it? or maybe  I got it wrong  and it  reads  as looking for areas disturbed seven years ago ?

[VeraWannabe]

Is this pic correct? Is the digging happening on this side of the snail?

https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/16/77/69/72/maddie10.jpg

[Praia]

And the helicopter is back again. The last time there was this much activity was May 2007. They have the lights on.

[DurhamGuy1967]

When / where was it said it was disturbed?

I have seen that somewhere I will have a look back and see if I can find it. The way reports are going from Portugal and SY going over old ground , the Mcanns not even out there, I think it is all going to come to nothing.

You could be right , but most of us don't expect a body but at most evidence of a temporary hiding place and at the moment all the boxes are being ticked.  It's hard to believe that Smithman found this place . but for someone to get away with the disapearance of Madeleine they have had more than their fair share of luck

[logical]

With Respect

  PeterMac @ page 49 @8.40

We Dont Assume there was a Smithman , It Clearly states in the Casefiles THAT THERE WAS a so Called Smithman witnessed and testified by a number of

people, so no Assumption needed.

[petunia]

If this was a whitewash Praia i think they would all be in the pub having a pint now,seems to me something is happening behind the scene.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

Apologies if this has already been posted:



Madeleine McCann cops carry out DNA tests on 'scraps of clothing' found near holiday resort

Jun 05, 2014 17:09 By Martin Fricker

A Portuguese military jet also swooped low over the site in Praia da Luz to gather detailed imagery of the terrain which will aid detectives in the search for Madeleine.

British cops are carrying out forensic tests on material discovered near a hidden pit on wasteland close to where Madeleine McCann vanished .

Experts drafted in from the UK are carrying out scientific analysis of the “non-organic” items - believed to include scraps of clothing.

Search teams scoured the cordoned off area for a fourth day and inspected sewers with hi-tech cameras.

A Portuguese military jet also swooped low over the site in Praia da Luz to gather detailed imagery of the terrain which will aid detectives.

UK sniffer dogs continue to work inside the taped-off area - which is 300 metres from the apartment where Madeleine disappeared in May 2007.

Detectives from Scotland Yard’s Operation Grange need at least another week to scour the land and two more areas in the Algarve resort.

Met Police officers wearing blue combat trousers and white t-shirts cleared scrubland using spades and pick axes in searing 28C heat.

They were said to be looking for objects that may have been abandoned soon after the youngster disappeared from the nearby Ocean Club.

A team of experts lifted at least three manhole covers to expose a sewer system - installed as part of failed plans to build a hotel.

One plain-clothed UK detective then lowered a hi-tech micro-camera attached to a long pole down the drains and inspected the pipes.

Work also continued at the concealed shaft covered with corrugated iron sheeting that was discovered earlier in the week.

The concealed chamber, on the south-eastern tip of the search area, is believed to have been used previously by local children as a play area.

Local reports said “non-organic” items had been discovered close to the pit on Wednesday and is being subjected to forensic tests.

A source said: “It could be days before the significance of the items is known.

"Several are being analysed by the British team.”

Scotland Yard refused to comment on the possible development, saying it was not giving a “running commentary” of the investigation.

The painstaking search is likely to go into a second week after police applied to the Portuguese judiciary in Lisbon to spend an extra seven days in the country.

It is not clear whether they will work over the weekend - and searches will come to a halt for 24 hours on Tuesday because it is a public holiday.

Madeleine’s parents Kate, 46, and Gerry, 45, are being kept informed throughout the work and are said to be bracing themselves for “significant news”.

The youngster was nearly four years old when she vanished from her parents’ holiday apartment while they dined with friends in a nearby tapas restaurant.

The Portuguese police case - which was criticised after the McCanns were named formal suspects - was shelved the following year.

Operation Grange was set up in 2011 to investigate the disappearance after David Cameron ordered Scotland Yard to review all the evidence in the case.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-cops-carry-out-3649912

[Guest]

Is this pic correct? Is the digging happening on this side of the snail?

https://i.servimg.com/u/f39/16/77/69/72/maddie10.jpg

I believe so, yes.

[ChippyM]

And the helicopter is back again. The last time there was this much activity was May 2007. They have the lights on.

Thanks for letting us know what's going on real time  

[DurhamGuy1967]

Praia

What else can you see? Is there activity on the ground?

[tiny]

And the helicopter is back again. The last time there was this much activity was May 2007. They have the lights on.

Thanks for letting us know what's going on real time  

  from me too,thank you Praia