Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

[russiandoll]

Aha..... but is it a red or a grey squirrel ?   

[Guest]

 
 

Those pension reforms have been going on for as long and are seemingly just as insoluble as this case.

[Silver Shuffle]

As Metropolitan police are reported to be extending their on-site investigations in and around Praia da Luz - and the Portuguese press is full of reports on how they have “got it all wrong” - a military helicopter has been “extremely busy” flying in and out of a nearby airfield. Locals who have been watching the flights are beginning to wonder. “Is there something we are not being told?” one queried. In Praia da Luz, police searches thus far appear to have yielded no more than a few animal bones, a sock and a local children’s ‘hidden away’ play hole - but with British police on a tight rein from local authorities who have warned them not to talk about the investigation to the press, it could be that certain developments are underway. What is certain is that a military helicopter has been flying in and out of Lagos airfield since dawn on Thursday morning. “It’s like musical helicopters down here,” our source reported, suggesting that “if any material is found, I suppose it would be fast-tracked to wherever the labs are”. Meantime, Portuguese press has been scathing of the high-profile police search that is using georadar, sniffer dogs and upwards of 30 uniformed officers. Former PJ chief inspector and current TV commentator Carlos Anjos has suggested that the land being searched so minutely by the Met “has been gone over before by everyone. This work makes no sense at all,” he said on television earlier in the week. Also damning is the former detective who led investigations when Madeleine first went missing. Talking to reporters, Gonçalo Amaral said the theory that Madeleine may have been murdered and then buried nearby by someone who broke into the apartment with robbery in mind is simply “not believable”. This is, nonetheless, the theory that newspapers report British detectives are running with. Whether or not this theory is a blind - along with reports of animal bones and the odd sock - is another question entirely. - See more at: http://portugalresident.com/military-helicopter-%E2%80%9Cvery-busy%E2%80%9D-near-madeleine-dig-site#sthash.TjADuush.dpuf

[Tony Bennett]

Tannerman, over many years caused the entire world to take their eyes off the squirrel.  Very cleverly and cynically he was proselytised as a sighting of a potential abductor.
Dr Amaral, who had the statements knew knew from the start that it was nonsense, and as soon as we read the documents a year later we calculated the one minute and 20 seconds and realised, and said, that it was nonsense.  And now DCI Redwood has said it was nonsense. So it is.  It doesn't matter therefore whether Tannerman existed, or was invented.  
He was not the abductor, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

Smithman, for me, falls into the same category.
He is being used to attempt to make us take our eyes off the squirrel.
It does not matter if he was real.  It does not matter if he was a fabrication by the entire family.  It does not matter if he comes forward with his daughter and her pyjamas.  It does not matter if the time given fits, or does not fit into Gerry's movements from the Tapas table . .
It is entirely irrelevant
He was not the abductor, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

There is no point, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

re: "He is being used to attempt to make us take our eyes off the squirrel".

REPLY: Fully agreed. A total distraction. A waste of time to speculate about who he might have been (if real).

re: "It does not matter if he was real. It does not matter if he was a fabrication by the entire family".

REPLY: I beg to differ. It matters a great deal.

Britain's top police force, the Met, told an audience of 6.7 million on the BBC Crimewatch show in October that 'Smithman' really was seen by 'an Irish family'. He then proceeded, bizarrely, to show us TWO efits, which appeared to be of two entirely different people.

Moreover, in presenting these efits, if you listen to the words he actually used, he says that 'the man' was seen 'by witnesses'. He does not actually spell out on the record that these two efits were produced by the Smith family. All this matters hugely. 

For if Smithman is not real, and indeed was a fabrication, DCI Redwood has lied to the whole country. And has got us looking for a phantom.

[missmar1]

So, we've had the sighting, the running, the charity appearance, the tv sofas and the new random suspect. Are we due another sighting next?

 With what is in front of the world's eyes in PdL I doubt that there will be any sightings. I note the holiday packs are still on sale.

 It would be more dignified and realistic now if the store was pulled from that site. Madeleine is without the shadow of a doubt dead and I can only hope that she is found soon so that she can have the dignity of a burial and a resting place she deserves.

They've sold their dead daughter for seven years and leeched off the grief of Kerry Needham, Coral Jones and Peter Lawrence.

The McCanns don't know the meaning of the word dignity.

What I find really sad in all of this is how the twins must be living all their young lives in the shadow of their older missing sister -imo, they cannot possibly be living a normal life because their parents have spent the past 7 years in the glare of the media ..ie, Travelling, on front pages of newspapers , the cameras and on tv sofas...... 
Yes, I know some will say they have been "working really hard" by trying to keep Madeleine in the minds of the public, but if you think about how the Mccann's viewed childcare arrangements at the time their oldest child went missing  ( We acted as responsible parents ) they thought it was ok for them to go out leaving their children without adult supervision. 
 It seems to me they have constantly put themselves before the welfare of their children because, even now, after 7 years ,imo, they are still parading in front of the media because they are still concentrating more on themselves and their own images to the world.  They could still have promoted their little girl's image during the last 7 years by using the money from the fund and having their spokesperson do the parading in front of the cameras while they remained out of the media as much as possible in order to make their remaining childrens lives as normal as possible...just my opinion.

[Bishop Brennan]

..."police searches thus far appear to have yielded no more than a few animal bones, a sock and a local children’s ‘hidden away’ play hole .

SY's international reputation rising to new heights!   

[Markus 2]

 
·  ·  ·  The Guardian, Thursday 5 June 2014 22.39 BST
Madeleine McCann parents encouraged by progress made by police in Portugal


6 June 2014 Last updated at 01:34 BBC Madeleine McCann: Search keeps spotlight on resort
The first week in the police search for any signs of Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz is coming to a close and, as yet, there do not seem to have been any major breakthroughs.


So who do you believe,  just  a statement of no significance by the Mcanns

[PeterMac]

For if Smithman is not real, and indeed was a fabrication, DCI Redwood has lied to the whole country. And has got us looking for a phantom.

If Redwood knew knew, then yes. You are right.
But he too may have been taken in, and be acting in good, if rather stupid, faith.

[Guest]

  btw to the person remarking on the Mcs not knowing the meaning of the word dignity :  I was speaking of Maddie's hopeful eventual proper interment, not the parents. Where did I mention her parents? I am sure you also believe that if Maddie is found she will come home and be properly laid to rest ?

I'm sorry, re-reading my posts I didn't make myself clear.

My original comment about the sighting was meant to be sarcastic (and in hindsight was in very poor taste)

My comment on the dignity of the McCanns was in response to your comment that the dignified thing to do would be to close the online store. I agree.

I hope Madeleine is found, I hope she is properly laid to rest, I hope she gets the justice that she deserves.

[bobbin]

For if Smithman is not real, and indeed was a fabrication, DCI Redwood has lied to the whole country. And has got us looking for a phantom.

If Redwood knew knew, then yes. You are right.
But he too may have been taken in, and be acting in good, if rather stupid, faith.

And at the same time, the third option, Smithman may in fact be 'true'.

[russiandoll]

Tony you are sailing very close to the wind with your potentially libellous statements which have been repeated on this forum. You have clearly called members of the Smith family liars and are now calling the Grange SIO corrupt.

 Why don't you give this a rest before you land yourself back in court? You are in very dangerous waters and I can't understand why you are being so reckless with what you state in public.

[russiandoll]

For if Smithman is not real, and indeed was a fabrication, DCI Redwood has lied to the whole country. And has got us looking for a phantom.

If Redwood knew knew, then yes. You are right.
But he too may have been taken in, and be acting in good, if rather stupid, faith.

And at the same time, the third option, Smithman may in fact be 'true'.

 this all belongs on the Smithman topic, sorry CF.

[Markus 2]

Talking about drugs is M involved in this area. He was interviewed on ITV news the other night high up overlooking the mound in an apartment , drinking coffee.  I thought he looked and sounded a bit nervous and  was not precise with his answers.

 please no one reply to this as I will be accused of derailing. jmo of him.

[Markus 2]

Tony you are sailing very close to the wind with your potentially libellous statements which have been repeated on this forum. You have clearly called members of the Smith family liars and are now calling the Grange SIO corrupt.

 Why don't you give this a rest before you land yourself back in court? You are in very dangerous waters and I can't understand why you are being so reckless with what you state in public.

We all have different views , so we have to let it go ,my opinion for what it is worth is that Smith man does exist but operation Grange could be a definite whitewash.

[stillsloppingout]

Aha..... but is it a red or a grey squirrel ?   

A dead Squirrel 

[ChippyM]

In Praia da Luz, police searches thus far appear to have yielded no more than a few animal bones, a sock and a local children’s ‘hidden away’ play hole - but with British police on a tight rein from local authorities who have warned them not to talk about the investigation to the press, it could be that certain developments are underway. What is certain is that a military helicopter has been flying in and out of Lagos airfield since dawn on Thursday morning. “It’s like musical helicopters down here,” our source reported, suggesting that “if any material is found, I suppose it would be fast-tracked to wherever the labs are”. Meantime, Portuguese press has been scathing of the high-profile police search that is using georadar, sniffer dogs and upwards of 30 uniformed officers. Former PJ chief inspector and current TV commentator Carlos Anjos has suggested that the land being searched so minutely by the Met “has been gone over before by everyone. This work makes no sense at all,” he said on television earlier in the week. Also damning is the former detective who led investigations when Madeleine first went missing. Talking to reporters, Gonçalo Amaral said the theory that Madeleine may have been murdered and then buried nearby by someone who broke into the apartment with robbery in mind is simply “not believable”. This is, nonetheless, the theory that newspapers report British detectives are running with. Whether or not this theory is a blind - along with reports of animal bones and the odd sock - is another question entirely. - See more at: http://portugalresident.com/military-helicopter-%E2%80%9Cvery-busy%E2%80%9D-near-madeleine-dig-site#sthash.TjADuush.dpuf

   Pure speculation again. The hole may be a childrens play hole but that doesn't exclude it from being a good hiding place.  I don't see how anyone can claim knowledge of what's been found as just animal bones, the police are hardly going to toss them all away before analysing them properly.
   The land may have been searched before but not by a specialist team looking for signs of a deceased child. The work may seem to make little sense to those watching but that's because the reason or information that it's based on has NOT been made public.

 I notice Amaral is saying an abductor/robbery theory is ridiculous but not the idea that she may have been put there by someone.

[aiyoyo]

Aha..... but is it a red or a grey squirrel ?   

A dead Squirrel 

A pink one, keep your eyes on it.

[Markus 2]

Tony you are sailing very close to the wind with your potentially libellous statements which have been repeated on this forum. You have clearly called members of the Smith family liars and are now calling the Grange SIO corrupt.

 Why don't you give this a rest before you land yourself back in court? You are in very dangerous waters and I can't understand why you are being so reckless with what you state in public.

We all have different views , so we have to let it go ,my opinion for what it is worth is that Smith man does exist but operation Grange could be a definite whitewash.

Thinking about this though if it is a whitewash, which I think it will be and the Met is corrupt then what better then to put out a e-fit that represents G  after all they know everyone is viewing them as suspects,  right in your face so to speak . So if it is a planned whitewash that scenario is not implausible when you think of it but not totally convinced.

[tigger]

I don't understand?  (Je ne comprend pas errm du tout errm for Figaro..  )

Which bit? I've pondered before if there is a drugs angle to this. You've got a whole load of people toing and froing ostensibly on golfing business who look like otherwise respectable middle class professionals, many with children. It's a very good cover for shipping drugs, cash, anything you like really.

I'm not talking specifically about the T9 here BTW, just thinking aloud. The Algarve in places is a bit like Marbella - much conspicuous wealth and precious little honest endeavour to support it. Amaral worked in drugs didn't he?

Thank you. i believe that private use of say cocaine isn't much of a problem in the Algarve, at least that's what I've been told.
Also recall Amaral and co rolled up a big drugskartel.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

Media reports on the PdL search are now very few and far between. There was much activity on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, but yesterday - the same day that the helicopter activity started - reports seemed to dry up. Appears to be the same today. Have all the observers sent out to PdL from the media gotten fed up at the same time? Josh Halliday from the Guardian for example, tweeted very little yesterday and nothing today, after tweeting many times on the 4th.

[stillsloppingout]

Thinking about this though if it is a whitewash, which I think it will be and the Met is corrupt then what better then to put out a e-fit that represents G  after all they know everyone is viewing them as suspects,  right in your face so to speak . So if it is a planned whitewash that scenario is not implausible when you think of it but not totally convinced.

Absolutely what i said when they did it . Its then laughed off and forgotten " ha ha it looks like Gerry Hahaha " obviously can't be move on . reverse psychology  the same as " Gosh Gerry that looked like you on Crimewatch last night "  Reply " it was me " hahaha move on . deny & arouse suspicion .

[FH]

Tannerman, over many years caused the entire world to take their eyes off the squirrel.  Very cleverly and cynically he was proselytised as a sighting of a potential abductor.
Dr Amaral, who had the statements knew knew from the start that it was nonsense, and as soon as we read the documents a year later we calculated the one minute and 20 seconds and realised, and said, that it was nonsense.  And now DCI Redwood has said it was nonsense. So it is.  It doesn't matter therefore whether Tannerman existed, or was invented.  
He was not the abductor, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

Smithman, for me, falls into the same category.
He is being used to attempt to make us take our eyes off the squirrel.
It does not matter if he was real.  It does not matter if he was a fabrication by the entire family.  It does not matter if he comes forward with his daughter and her pyjamas.  It does not matter if the time given fits, or does not fit into Gerry's movements from the Tapas table . .
It is entirely irrelevant
He was not the abductor, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

There is no point, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

re: "He is being used to attempt to make us take our eyes off the squirrel".

REPLY: Fully agreed. A total distraction. A waste of time to speculate about who he might have been (if real).

re: "It does not matter if he was real. It does not matter if he was a fabrication by the entire family".

REPLY: I beg to differ. It matters a great deal.

Britain's top police force, the Met, told an audience of 6.7 million on the BBC Crimewatch show in October that 'Smithman' really was seen by 'an Irish family'. He then proceeded, bizarrely, to show us TWO efits, which appeared to be of two entirely different people.

Moreover, in presenting these efits, if you listen to the words he actually used, he says that 'the man' was seen 'by witnesses'. He does not actually spell out on the record that these two efits were produced by the Smith family. All this matters hugely. 

For if Smithman is not real, and indeed was a fabrication, DCI Redwood has lied to the whole country. And has got us looking for a phantom.

Tony,
         I have no idea if the Smiths saw someone, or not, but AR said the e-fits were drawn up by witnesses plural. If the Smiths had drawn up e-fits would we expect there to be 2? Would we not expect them to put their recollections into 1 e-fit?  He said Smithman was a revelation. He did not say the e-fits were drawn up by the Smiths. There has been no info released on who drew up the e-fits.  Sometimes it is what isn't said that is important.  Perhaps Smithman is a misnomer. The veracity of the Smiths sighting does not rule out AR following the lead, IF he has other witnesses that saw a man carrying a child in the same vicinity that night and if they drew up the e-fits.  AR has also mentioned the phone records are important.

We are now hearing of a british holiday maker that saw a man carrying a child,  talking in english on a phone. There is no mention of Tannerman being on the phone, so is this a different sighting?  Maybe this witness helped draw up one of the e-fits?  Perhaps Andy has identified a phone ping from the area of this sighting, maybe the pings moved to the scrubby area and then somewhere else quickly?

Does anyone know, given the state of the technology in 2007, how accurately you could  pin point someone's location from phone pings?

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

Does anyone know, given the state of the technology in 2007, how accurately you could  pin point someone's location from phone pings?

I don't know, but I can make some mathematical guesses. If a mast records the distance that a ping is received at, and multiple masts receive the same ping, then you need three activations to triangulate the location precisely. However, just two activations could give you two locations to consider. Ignoring one dimension for a moment, consider two intersecting circles. The circles will most likely cross at two points. My guess is that it all depends on whether a mast can identify the distance of a ping, and whether multiple masts identify the same pings.

[Miraflores]

We are now hearing of a british holiday maker that saw a man carrying a child,

For me, this causes the same problem as Tannerman suddenly coming forward after six years. With all the huge publicity there was, why didn't that person go to the police at the time? Why now?

[tasprin]

 
·  ·  ·  The Guardian, Thursday 5 June 2014 22.39 BST
Madeleine McCann parents encouraged by progress made by police in Portugal


6 June 2014 Last updated at 01:34 BBC Madeleine McCann: Search keeps spotlight on resort
The first week in the police search for any signs of Madeleine McCann in Praia da Luz is coming to a close and, as yet, there do not seem to have been any major breakthroughs.


So who do you believe,  just  a statement of no significance by the Mcanns

Both statements are true. As yet, there is no major breakthrough in the search for Madeleine, and the McCanns are encouraged by the Scotland Yard's (non) progress.