Lost in Translation

by Tinkerbell81 28.03.12 9:42

After reading PeterMacs topic about the strange wording in the foreword I decided to check it again because I have been combing that book with a very fine comb and I thought it was stupid of me that I had missed something so obvious. Turns out I hadnt missed anything, the sentence:

"...there remains no evidence whatsoever to suggest that she has come to serious harm".

isnt there in the translation. instead it reads

... in dit boek zal duidelijk worden dat er geen enkel bewijs is dat suggereert dat haar ersntig letsel is toegebracht

That in turn translates back to English as in this book it will become clear that there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that she has come to serious harm. Its only a small word but the meaning of that sentence changes completely, and I believe it was very purposefully done so....

by russiandoll 28.03.12 9:57

oh doesn't it just get lost in translation.
A crucial difference and I dont think the police would need to read much if anything more of this book to see that it digs the hole they are in even deeper.....

re·main (r-mn)
intr.v. re·mained, re·main·ing, re·mains
1. To continue in the same state or condition: These matters remain in doubt.
2. To continue to be in the same place; stay or stay behind: We are remaining at home.
3. To be left after the removal, loss, passage, or destruction of others: Only a few trees remain. See Synonyms at stay1.
4. To be left as still to be dealt with: A cure remains to be found.
5. To endure or persist.

by Tinkerbell81 28.03.12 10:08

I think there may be more of those, problem is I dont have access to the english text, otherwise I could compare
(and I'll be hanged before I buy another copy of that wretched thing.....)

by **tigger** 28.03.12 10:28

Tinkerbell81 wrote:I think there may be more of those, problem is I dont have access to the english text, otherwise I could compare
(and I'll be hanged before I buy another copy of that wretched thing.....)

I used to do translations and even now when I watch films on Dutch TV, the translations aren't even wrong but often completely the opposite of what is meant in the original.

Quite a different meaning in Dutch - complete exoneration.

by **PeterMac** 28.03.12 10:30

tinkerbell
PM me. I can help.

by aiyoyo 28.03.12 15:24

err...excuse me for asking ...and, .the translation is from which language to which?

If I am not wrong they said in their norwegian interview (I know on swedish tv) that they were acquitted from arguido.

That's a very strange thing to do.

Anyhow, Russiandoll is correct - big difference between "remains" and "is"! But I doubt the Police reviewer have time to analyze every of their interview or even time to comb through Kate's bewk.

by Ribisl 28.03.12 22:22

I bet T7 are wishing they had been interviewed in a foreign tongue. They would then have had an excuse for their gross inaccuracies and level of articulacy not matching even that of a certain 3 year old.

by Tinkerbell81 29.03.12 10:22

I have the dutch translated copy and found this. I will see if I can find any more. Might be nothing and a "waste of time" but ... might be important too!

by tuom 05.04.12 16:02

Hi All,

I have just finished reading the bewk , now I must lie down in a dark room Lost in Translation 234726

by **tigger** 05.04.12 19:43

tuom wrote:Hi All,

I have just finished reading the bewk , now I must lie down in a dark room

Speak to Russian Doll who also went through it with a fine tooth comb. Came up with amazing insights/oversights....
Especially on the crying episode.

by Ribisl 07.04.12 17:03

Interview by Concha García Campoy - Las Mañanas de Cuatro Wednesday, 04 May 2010

GM: The leaks, smears and lies that were put in the media to try and, errr... convey, errr... an image that we were guilty of our own daughter's disappearance, errm... was particularly hard but the m... it wasn't as bad as the night we found her.

Spanish voiceover: Las mentiras que volcaron los medios para dar una imagen de que éramos culpables fue especialmente difícil, pero no tan difícil como la noche en que desapareció (the night she disappeared).

by russiandoll 07.04.12 19:38

I recall seeing a video clip of this and am pretty sure I heard "found her gone." Edited since I think so the final word is missing........whoever did this does not help matters.

by rainbow-fairy 07.04.12 21:43

russiandoll wrote: I recall seeing a video clip of this and am pretty sure I heard "found her gone." Edited since I think so the final word is missing........whoever did this does not help matters.

I seem to recall reading this somewhere before. However, in this instance I don't believe the word 'gone' would really add to the meaning.
Linguistically it is an odd way to structure a sentence "Nothing was as bad as the night we found her gone." More likely surely, "Nothing was as bad as the night she disappeared".
Even with 'gone' on the end, the preceding words of 'found her' suggests a memory of, indeed, 'finding her'. It is likely that 'gone' was a corrective addendum.
Remember when Kate said "we certainly have no plans to leave with Madeleine... without Madeleine".
Freudian slip or corrective, I truly think that. I'd be surprised if not.

by Shibboleth 07.04.12 21:53

I am not a native English speaker, so to *find something gone* makes an absolute nonsense. If something is gone, it cannot be found! And if it has been found, then it quite clearly has not gone!

by Shibboleth 07.04.12 21:55

rainbow-fairy wrote:
russiandoll wrote: I recall seeing a video clip of this and am pretty sure I heard "found her gone." Edited since I think so the final word is missing........whoever did this does not help matters.
I seem to recall reading this somewhere before. However, in this instance I don't believe the word 'gone' would really add to the meaning.
Linguistically it is an odd way to structure a sentence "Nothing was as bad as the night we found her gone." More likely surely, "Nothing was as bad as the night she disappeared".
Even with 'gone' on the end, the preceding words of 'found her' suggests a memory of, indeed, 'finding her'. It is likely that 'gone' was a corrective addendum.
Remember when Kate said "we certainly have no plans to leave with Madeleine... without Madeleine".
Freudian slip or corrective, I truly think that. I'd be surprised if not.

Philomena is also on record, saying that the McCann were *negligible* parents.

by rainbow-fairy 08.04.12 0:09

Shibboleth wrote:I am not a native English speaker, so to *find something gone* makes an absolute nonsense. If something is gone, it cannot be found! And if it has been found, then it quite clearly has not gone!

Exactly.
Its not quite so clear-cut in the English language, but it is a very clumsy sentence structure. Indeed, to say "When we found..." does indicate finding something, as opposed to learning something. To that end, "the night we discovered her gone" would be better, as 'discover' does have that literal meaning, 'found' does not.

We must also remember, these are well-educated people - fully able to construct proper sentences.
I fully believe that was yet another example of a Freudian slip.

by russiandoll 08.04.12 1:34

will try to find what I saw...".found her gone " is dreadful grammar for sure, might have been a sudden correction but then again he has a pretty poor grasp of English, a fair amount of what he says is poorly constructed.

by Ribisl 08.04.12 6:58

russiandoll wrote: will try to find what I saw...".found her gone " is dreadful grammar for sure, might have been a sudden correction but then again he has a pretty poor grasp of English, a fair amount of what he says is poorly constructed.

That would be intereting because whereas 'found her' does not indicate how they found her eg sleeping, dead, missing, etc, 'found her gone' would immediately suggest two possibilities: either they discovered her dead or that she had gone out of the apartment of her own accord (although one could argue, of course, that because we are talking about a toddler this would be highly unlikely and therefore it simply meant 'disappeared'). Either way it could be a sign that 'abduction' wasn't upmost in his mind when Gerry uttered this sentence. More apt expression would have been 'found her disappeared' or 'found her missing'. 'found her taken' would only be used if you are convinced abduction had taken place, which is what they want us to believe, or they had a good reason to believe somebody had removed her from the apartment.

But at the same these slips may be just that and have little or no significance as we have seen from various interviews and statements they are generally pretty careless with their choice of words.

by **tigger** 08.04.12 7:11

It's a good example of the use of a passive verb.

'the situation Madeleine finds herself in'

'we found her gone'

It's an indication of the speaker removing him/herself from the event. No responsibility.

by rainbow-fairy 08.04.12 7:26

tigger wrote:It's a good example of the use of a passive verb.

'the situation Madeleine finds herself in'

'we found her gone'

It's an indication of the speaker removing him/herself from the event. No responsibility.

Indeed it is tigger. I'm thinking these posts would be ideal in Forensic Linguistics thread? I did my best to explain in my last two posts why its a very odd thing to say - hope they made sense!

by **tigger** 08.04.12 7:41

The Antena 3 Interview
McCanns Return To Portugal / Fun Run / Aled Jones Interview · Three Years: GMTV ..... Gerry McCann: Not from the minute we found her gone. RA: In Spain ...
www.mccannfiles.com/id210.html - Similar

Dr Martin Roberts
Dr Martin Roberts on the McCann media interviews, Madeleine McCann case, Maddie McCann, The McCanns, ... GM: "Not from the moment we found her gone.
www.mccannfiles.com/id260.html - Similar

Here are two links to the 'found her gone' remark.
The first with transcript.

by russiandoll 08.04.12 10:17

gone (gôn, gn)
v.
Past participle of go1.
adj.
1. Being away from a place; absent or having departed.
2. Past; bygone.
3. Advanced beyond hope or recall.
4. Dying or dead.

by Shibboleth 08.04.12 13:19

The mother of my husband used that expression when her husband died. "He's gone". It is a common expression in England I think, to mean that somebody died.

by rainbow-fairy 08.04.12 13:38

Shibboleth wrote:The mother of my husband used that expression when her husband died. "He's gone". It is a common expression in England I think, to mean that somebody died.

It certainly is, Shibboleth Lost in Translation 636506