found it !

by russiandoll 22.01.12 16:13

on p9 of this thread. a diagram of who was where [allegedly.]

by Praia 22.01.12 16:18

Russiandoll it is worth reading the Oldfield's Rog Int's again.
Rachel's disgusting way of describing her little girl's illness makes no sense.
Matt is a doctor, you do not ignore diarrhoea every night, she would need a drip at that stage. If she was left to lie in it all night she would be red raw and surely the creche staff would not take her.
What was the smell in the room at the back of 5B facing the car park?

by Genbug 22.01.12 16:28

Upsy Daisy wrote:Judging by the photo, Mrs Fenn / 5G may be situated directly above 5A however it's also directly adjacent to 5B so potentially any sound travelling up from from 5B may have appeared to Mrs Fenn as coming from directly below in 5A. So....crying on 1st May incident may have been coming from through the wall at 5B???? As we have heard, the sound carries, perhaps it carried slightly further along from 5B instead of what was perceived as 5A by Mrs Fenn at the time?

Upsy Daisy, I've mentioned this before on another forum, and been shouted down with cries of "but Mrs Fenn wasn't stupid, she must have known where the sound was coming from...".

I'm not stupid either, but I can categorically state that it is sometimes impossible to know where a sound is coming from in an apartment block. If I heard a child crying I honestly couldn't state whether that crying was coming from the apartment below, to the side or the apartment underneath AND to the side. It's easy to assume (not saying this is what she did) that crying is coming from a certain apartment because you know there is a child there who is left alone.

by Upsy Daisy 22.01.12 16:38

yes Genbug...and this is what is seeming like something is pointing to 5B....this cover up about smells etc. and the apparent lack of movement in 5A as witnessed by Mrs Fenn. what was going on in that apartment.

Leaving aside the poor child would be seriously dehydrated, why mention
the smell and make herself sound like such a negligent mother. Every
night?
Was she worried about the cleaner possibly noticing a terrible smell in that apt?

Now, i also said on a previous thread that there is no way in the world a mother would make comments such as RO did about her child stinking and effectively lying in her own poo all night, unwell. Definite smokescreen. For example, yesterday my 24 month old had a runny bum, many nappy changes and was screaming her head off in agony because her poor little bum was red raw, after cool bathing, cream, powder, etc. she settled...this took hours though. A child could not and would not be left alone to cope with this sort of thing, overnight without adult intervention. Unless an evil wicked person is this girl's parents and left her in that state, then fine, but a responsible professional or doctor type, then no way. I don't buy that story and it's a cover up for another smell going on in that apartment.

by Praia 22.01.12 16:38

David says that Jane and Russell were "directly under" the Paynes.(RI)

Just noticed in Russell's RI at 1:09:17 he says the lunches
"were generally done in one of the apt's, particularly KATE and err Dave and Fi's because it was so much bigger."
They all agree after Sun. the McCann's lunched in their own apt.
Why mention Kate here and quickly move on to the Paynes?
Russell says he was in 5A on the Sun. night for a visual check on the McCann children. Why?

by Upsy Daisy 22.01.12 16:40

....unless it was THAT child screaming Daddy Daddy when they left it in its own poo...sound travelling up from 5b - maybe it wasn't maddie after all, maybe she was already gone by that point and it was Rachel's kid's cries???

by Nina 22.01.12 16:44

candyfloss wrote:There is an apartment to rent here which is either the one above Mrs Fenns, or the penthouse, good pictures and stunning sea views can be seen -

[url=http://www.oceanapartment.co.uk/gallery_apart.html

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Bravo Candyfloss, there we have it, the penthouse apartment which is on more than one level. Tje view towards the block clearly shows 5A with Mrs Fenn's apt above and just one more floor/apartment above that, then a flat roof but with this mentioned apartment to the left.

And yes that is a very nice place to stay by the looks of it.

by Genbug 22.01.12 16:47

Praia wrote:Russiandoll it is worth reading the Oldfield's Rog Int's again.
Rachel's disgusting way of describing her little girl's illness makes no sense.
Matt is a doctor, you do not ignore diarrhoea every night, she would need a drip at that stage. If she was left to lie in it all night she would be red raw and surely the creche staff would not take her.
What was the smell in the room at the back of 5B facing the car park?

“Erm well we’d go into the room, which ordinarily we wouldn’t do to be honest, erm but she seemed to have diarrhoea and kind of, I mean she’d settled quite well actually cos she’d been tired every evening, erm but every morning when she woke up, she had diarrhoea and it had gone right through her grow bag and so there’s all of this sort of horrendous smell, so in the evenings when we were checking, we’d go into the room just to see if you know, there was any sort of smell yet, erm and just to make sure she was alright, to make sure she hadn’t been sick, partly I think cos Matt had been sick, just wanted to make sure that she hadn’t been, in case it was some sort of bug”.

IF this is true (which I doubt), she is a disgusting woman. You leave your baby all alone, knowing that she has diarrhoea and maybe sickness and a bug? I don't believe a word of it. And as you say, there is no way a creche would take a child with diarrhoea. She's since had another baby. God help the poor child.

by Praia 22.01.12 16:52

Why did Russell place himself in 5A on Sun. night doing a visual check when Jane says they all only checked their own children?

I do not think the Oldfields girl was the one heard crying. I think she was minded with the others and the diarrhoea story covers some other smell.
Mrs Fenn could have heard crying from either 5A or 5B. The bedrooms are beside each other.

by Genbug 22.01.12 18:44

Praia wrote:Why did Russell place himself in 5A on Sun. night doing a visual check when Jane says they all only checked their own children?

I do not think the Oldfields girl was the one heard crying. I think she was minded with the others and the diarrhoea story covers some other smell.
Mrs Fenn could have heard crying from either 5A or 5B. The bedrooms are beside each other.

Russell also places himself in the Oldfield apartment on the Sunday night, despite saying a few paragraphs earlier (and stated by the others) that Matt was sick on the sunday night.

"And then on Sunday I recall I checked Kate and Gerry’s apartment as well as Rachael and Matt’s and my recollection is that I needed Matt’s key to check on their room and I had it, but I didn’t need Kate and Gerry’s key because they went through the patio door..."

Why did he have to go and check Matt's apartment if Matt was already there, allegedly sick?

by Praia 22.01.12 18:47

What was Russell really up to on the Sunday night?

by russiandoll 22.01.12 19:21

Genbug wrote:
Praia wrote:Why did Russell place himself in 5A on Sun. night doing a visual check when Jane says they all only checked their own children?

I do not think the Oldfields girl was the one heard crying. I think she was minded with the others and the diarrhoea story covers some other smell.
Mrs Fenn could have heard crying from either 5A or 5B. The bedrooms are beside each other.

Russell also places himself in the Oldfield apartment on the Sunday night, despite saying a few paragraphs earlier (and stated by the others) that Matt was sick on the sunday night.

"And then on Sunday I recall I checked Kate and Gerry’s apartment as well as Rachael and Matt’s and my recollection is that I needed Matt’s key to check on their room and I had it, but I didn’t need Kate and Gerry’s key because they went through the patio door..."

Why did he have to go and check Matt's apartment if Matt was already there, allegedly sick?

he didn't have to because Matt was not ill and was not there probably.

by Daisy 22.01.12 19:44

[quote="Nina"]

candyfloss wrote:There is an apartment to rent here which is either the one above Mrs Fenns, or the penthouse, good pictures and stunning sea views can be seen -

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Bravo Candyfloss, there we have it, the penthouse apartment which is on more than one level. Tje view towards the block clearly shows 5A with Mrs Fenn's apt above and just one more floor/apartment above that, then a flat roof but with this mentioned apartment to the left.

And yes that is a very nice place to stay by the looks of it.

Thanks for that link guys. It took me to this one that describes the actual apartment in more detail.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"The apartment is located in the sought-after Waterside Gardens area of the
award-winning Ocean Club"

"Property: 2 bedroomed, 2 bathroomed penthouse apartment (arranged over 2 floors) on the 4th flloor"

"The apartment is suitable for couples and families, but please note that there
are stairs to the bedrooms and bathrooms on the lower floor, so it is not
suitable for wheel-chair users"

Despite the fact that we have photographic evidence of Mrs Fenn on the balcony of her apartment - 5G, we are now being asked to consider that she also owned (& actually lived) in one of these penthouse suites. Based on what? It has been stated several times that CT intimated her aunt had another apartment; I've asked for evidence of this information several times now, alas to no avail.

Praia - do you have a source for this info or not? If not, the theories expanding on this dubious info are baseless.

Note in the description of the apartment there are stairs to the lower floor where the bedrooms & bathrooms are situated. Hardly suitable for a 80+ yr old arthritic lady is it?. Common sense & reasoning tell me apartment 5G would have been mucher better suited to the old lady than a 2 storey apartment where she'd surely struggle.

by Guest 22.01.12 19:48

Daisy, the video I put up a few pages back shows Mrs Fenn going into apartment G5 with her shopping etc.

by Praia 22.01.12 20:02

Daisy I explained this all a while back and gave you the quotes.
The interest is in CT and whether she was in two apt's.
I am not talking about Mrs Fenn but her niece.
I do not know how clearer to be.

by Praia 22.01.12 20:04

Daisy to add Mrs Fenn had the use of a lift to her apt. I never said otherwise.

by rainbow-fairy 22.01.12 20:11

[quote = "Genbug"][quote = "Praia"]

Russiandoll it is worth reading the Oldfield's Rog Int's again.
Rachel's disgusting way of describing her little girl's illness makes no sense.
Matt is a doctor, you do not ignore diarrhoea every night, she would need a drip at that stage. If she was left to lie in it all night she would be red raw and surely the creche staff would not take her.
What was the smell in the room at the back of 5B facing the car park?[/quote]

“Erm well we’d go into the room, which ordinarily we wouldn’t do to be honest, erm but she seemed to have diarrhoea and kind of, I mean she’d settled quite well actually cos she’d been tired every evening, erm but every morning when she woke up, she had diarrhoea and it had gone right through her grow bag and so there’s all of this sort of horrendous smell, so in the evenings when we were checking, we’d go into the room just to see if you know, there was any sort of smell yet, erm and just to make sure she was alright, to make sure she hadn’t been sick, partly I think cos Matt had been sick, just wanted to make sure that she hadn’t been, in case it was some sort of bug”.

IF this is true (which I doubt), she is a disgusting woman. You leave your baby all alone, knowing that she has diarrhoea and maybe sickness and a bug? I don't believe a word of it. And as you say, there is no way a creche would take a child with diarrhoea. She's since had another baby. God help the poor child.[/quote]

This actually makes me furious. What sort of person would admit to acting this way??? Even IF she had left the poor mite like this at all. Between the lot of them, what they have 'admitted' I wouldn't trust them with a plastic houseplant. If these were single lower-class parents I'd bet all the money I have they would've been arrested, charged and the children put in care!

It makes it blatantly obvious to me that if they are 'admitting' to doing such serious, sick, vile things, that what they were ACTUALLY doing was extremely sick.

Is it true she has since had another child? If she really treated her baby daughter the way she says she did, the woman should've been sterilised, mandatory IMO. And I don't say that lightly!

by Praia 22.01.12 20:21

Rainbowfairy the fact that she is willing to be seen as such a terrible mother is frightening, what the hell are they hiding?

by Nina 22.01.12 20:38

This supposed poorly baby. Why go into all that detail of the smell, the crying during the morning bath, the leaking nappy into baby suit, really as far as this case is concerned it is not important.

We are all horrified at this gross neglect and if true there should have been an investigation into this alone, but nothing.

Was it used to cover another crying child in the morning bath. Was the smell from another child, was any evidence of faeces in the bath plug or washing machine drain from another child?

Because as sure as God made little apples, a baby with such bad diarrhoea would not have been accepted into a nursery creche.

by Praia 22.01.12 20:49

So why say all this? I go back to the cleaner, did she see or smell something.
It's like O'Brien and the vomited on sheets.

by Nina 22.01.12 21:03

Praia wrote:So why say all this? I go back to the cleaner, did she see or smell something.
It's like O'Brien and the vomited on sheets.

Hi Praia. I imagine the cleaner would have some sort of a cleaning cart with clean linen and towels, sweeping brush, mop and buckets. Cleaning fluids, for floors, windows and mirrors etc. So if a child/baby has been sick or had diarrhoea and you were staying in the apartment you wouldn't have the cleaning tackle to hand. Unless everything was in each individual apartment. Come to think I have not seen any evidence in 5A kitchen of a cleaning tall cupboard, so if they did do a massive clean up themselves where was the cleaning equipment? But that is another hmmmm??? moment.

Yes the cleaner must have smelt something. They said there was a smell so there must have been. I just don't think it was from their baby, as again as each day went on she would be getting more and more poorly and with dehydration and a red raw bottom and the nursery would not have accepted her.

The cleaner maybe just used extra bleach and sprayed around with airfreshner spray. There is certainly no other mention of this smell, well not related to the apartment that is.

by Badboys 22.01.12 21:16

Nina wrote:
Praia wrote:So why say all this? I go back to the cleaner, did she see or smell something.
It's like O'Brien and the vomited on sheets.

Hi Praia. I imagine the cleaner would have some sort of a cleaning cart with clean linen and towels, sweeping brush, mop and buckets. Cleaning fluids, for floors, windows and mirrors etc. So if a child/baby has been sick or had diarrhoea and you were staying in the apartment you wouldn't have the cleaning tackle to hand. Unless everything was in each individual apartment. Come to think I have not seen any evidence in 5A kitchen of a cleaning tall cupboard, so if they did do a massive clean up themselves where was the cleaning equipment? But that is another hmmmm??? moment.

Yes the cleaner must have smelt something. They said there was a smell so there must have been. I just don't think it was from their baby, as again as each day went on she would be getting more and more poorly and with dehydration and a red raw bottom and the nursery would not have accepted her.

The cleaner maybe just used extra bleach and sprayed around with airfreshner spray. There is certainly no other mention of this smell, well not related to the apartment that is.

Something interesting about cleaning equiment is that the cleaning`depot' was broken into where luis antonio used to keep his cleaning equiment.

by rainbow-fairy 22.01.12 23:25

Praia wrote:Rainbowfairy the fact that she is willing to be seen as such a terrible mother is frightening, what the hell are they hiding?

That is my point entirely, Praia - its scary! I just find it impossible to take at face value, because IF the baby had diarrhoea as severe as she states, and for as long as she stated, well it'd be a hospital job! That poor mite would be in desperate need of electrolytes at the very best...
So much of this case is unlikely. Eg, Kate McCann doing her 'cleaning'. Who on earth would go on holiday, where a cleaner comes in, and cleans up themselves? Especially when they thought the holiday was pricey, you'd want to cram activities into every moment, not cleaning. Only a clean hygiene-freak would do so. Which I would say rules the McCanns out, seeing as they were allegedly carrying filthy soiled nappies and dirty clothes in the car boot!
We need a mountain of salt for this pile of nonsense.
Yes indeedy, it is a cover for something really really nasty IMO

by e29j07 23.01.12 0:19

just giving a quick read and saw the post about the 1m villa where the couple drove a tattered red car and someone used to visit in an expensive car.... would they have been referring to mrs fenns mercedes?? and also when murat says if only her car could talk!??

by jd 23.01.12 0:30

Praia - do you have a source for this info or not? If not, the theories expanding on this dubious info are baseless.

Daisy, Praia never has any sources, links or anything to back up with. And the mods never bring him up on this yet do to everyone else. It is all waffle and everyone is being sucked in. Troll troll troll..smell the coffee

Here are 3 reasons for Praia joining this forum...all within the space of 7 days

On Jan 13th 2012 Priaia said for his reason for joining to this forum "After following this unbelievable saga since May 4 2007 I have decided to join you all. I know the area well and I am furious at the portrayal of Healy and McCann as victims of the inept Portuguese police. One only has to look at the PJ files to see their diligent work."

On a side issue, 14th Jan 2012 Praia said "I do not believe there was neglect of the other children, Madeleine however I dread to think"....so the twins were not neglected in your opinion Praia?

On 15th Jan 2012 Praia said " It was the bewk that made me join the forum. The out and out lies were too much. I got a free copy and it broke my heart the way Portugal and the PJ are portrayed."

On 21st Jan 2012 Praia said "I joined here because Leveson so annoyed me by turning the inquiry into "line up and apologise to the poor McCann's" show. A Guardian writer this week said Leveson's new proposed monitoring body will not be acceptable to the McCann's if Desmond and his papers refuse to recognise it. Sod the rest of the country, the McCann's must be pleased by Leveson. This is really hard to take."

So there are 3 completely different reasons within 7 days why Praia has joined this forum, and this is only why he joined let alone all the rest of the waffle spouted, which I could highlight too....But lets look at when Praia actually joined this forum ...13th December 2010..Long before the Leveson Inquiry was ever thought of and before the bewk was released and to my calculations 13 months ago

If anyone can't see this a troll then good luck to you. Praia is well informed on the statements and is waffling on & blinding you, coming out with "extra facts" that he cannot back up or link to, and when asked by me or Daisy to, he always avoids the question. Classic troll tactics.

One day Praia will post I can't believe you all fell for it.... just like when Xavier posted after people realised what he was (which I spotted from day 1)

People may think me & Daisy are disruptive, but one day you will realise we only ever cared and tried to protect this forum and all the good people on here