Re: What was 5A really used for?

by **tigger** 22.01.12 14:04

[quote="rainbow-fairy"]

Praia wrote:It was CT description of an amazing view that caught my eye. I describe the scene elsewhere.

What really stands out of Tranmer's statement for me is this 2nd, 3rd floor business! Regardless of whether floors are named differently out there, ground = first, IF PF lived DIRECTLY above she HAS to be on the 2nd - not the 3rd. IF she DID live on the third and WAS one above McCanns, then they were not in 5A - couldn't be.
My conclusion is that the McCanns stayed elesewhere. That apartment was their 'dressing room' 5A was their 'stage'.[/quote

I'm going for that as well. I suggested we research just one subject and then gather all findings in one post, going off topic is too easy. With the unwanted visitors we've had lately, topics have been hijacked all over the place.

Stage set, totally. Too noisy, so where did the McCanns sleep? Perhaps the children in their own apartment - Maddie and the parents in there for how long? two nights? After that, lots of cleaning and another apartment? Just leaving the stage?

by Lady-Heather 22.01.12 14:11

Have just read through the PJ forensic reports and from what I can see, forensics were only taken from G5a, Murat's home, the Bergau apartment, the McCann's villa, the hire car (Scenic), Murat's car and a Renault Kangoo (don't know who's this was). Am I right in thinking that forensics were not taken from elsewhere in the OC? Or if they were perhaps they are being withheld from the released files? I'm having some great difficulty with GM's trip home to Rothley to collect an item of Madeleines DNA. There has to have been something in PDL from which they could have extracted DNA. A hairbrush, toothbrush (I don't buy the 'children shared one toothbrush' story) etc. Comparisons could then have been made against traces/samples found elsewhere in the OC, if they were taken.

by Praia 22.01.12 14:19

The cleaning always bothered me. I mentioned before about the possibility of steam cleaning. Whatever method used the cleaning materials were got from somewhere. The local supermarket is too obvious imo. In early May it would be mostly locals, not easy to blend in.

by Ross 22.01.12 14:25

Stella wrote:
Praia wrote:CT statement is full of holes.

She says her husband and her stayed in
Quarteira about two hours away from Luz, it is 45 minutes.

Yes, I noticed that. On the way there, it was over an hour, two hours on the way back. I wondered why there was a discrepency and wondered how long it would really take, so thank you for confirming this.

There are two ways to travel east-west in the Algarve: the old road (N125) or the motorway. The old road has been upgraded in places, but is still essentially a windy country road that goes through the middle of towns and villages on its route, which obviously the motorway doesn't. So it is possible to have different journey times depending on the road used.

by Praia 22.01.12 14:33

LadyHeather the whole DNA thing is crazy. If they needed a sample from Rothley why not have family members collect it immediately?
There is no way of knowing whose pillow case it was. The chain of evidence is suspect with GM collecting it.

Like you say what other apt's, if any, were examined?
RO makes an unbelievable statement about her baby daughter having diarrhoea every night, the smell, the screaming and the baths each morning.
Leaving aside the poor child would be seriously dehydrated, why mention the smell and make herself sound like such a negligent mother. Every night?
Was she worried about the cleaner possibly noticing a terrible smell in that apt?

by Praia 22.01.12 14:40

Ross the EN125 from Lagos to Quarteira takes 60/70 minutes. On a Sunday it is much quieter so the lower no.
It would be unusual to travel from Quarteira to Luz and not take the motorway in 2007.
Tolls on A22 have just been introduced here. There is war over it and the 125 is busy once again.
There was a saying about having to try and stay alive on the 125, it was a notorious blackspot in the whole of the EU before the A22 was finished.

by Praia 22.01.12 14:51

I have said it before why does Fiona in the RI describe the Oldfield's apt. in a different place to the others.
FP thinks O'Brien and Tanner are underneath her apt, then the Oldfields and "there is another one or two apt's in between them " and 5A.
FP and DW do not recall their own apt. no.
I am wondering about the smell in 5B as per Rachel.

by Upsy Daisy 22.01.12 14:52

Leaving aside the poor child would be seriously dehydrated, why mention
the smell and make herself sound like such a negligent mother. Every
night?
Was she worried about the cleaner possibly noticing a terrible smell in that apt?

Praia, the same smell that was complained about in the renault scenic...... the smell that was put down to the 'twins nappies'...bad smell that required the car boot to be left open day and night????

by Ross 22.01.12 14:54

Praia wrote:Ross the EN125 from Lagos to Quarteira takes 60/70 minutes. On a Sunday it is much quieter so the lower no.
It would be unusual to travel from Quarteira to Luz and not take the motorway in 2007.
Tolls on A22 have just been introduced here. There is war over it and the 125 is busy once again.
There was a saying about having to try and stay alive on the 125, it was a notorious blackspot in the whole of the EU before the A22 was finished.

I think it's difficult to give a specific time for a journey on the 125 because it is so dependent on how much traffic there is. I've been on it many times, sometimes you can just sail through, at others it slows to a crawl. Time of day and time of year are big factors, in high summer at midday being the worst in my experience.

I didn't know about the introduction of toll charges on the A22 - so we can look forward to a return good (bad) old days of ten years ago when as you point out the 125 was statistically the most lethal road in Europe!

by Praia 22.01.12 14:55

DP in his own RI is not sure where the Oldfield's were either.

They were all asked to draw the layouts for a reason. God only knows where they all actually where.

by Praia 22.01.12 14:58

Hi Ross, yes I am afraid so. If you come and rent a car there are all sorts of hastles now. You need a tracker on the car. PM me if you need info.
CT was referring to the end of April / early May, so the 125 is quieter.

by **HiDeHo** 22.01.12 15:08

Hope this helps.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by **tigger** 22.01.12 15:09

Lady-Heather wrote:Have just read through the PJ forensic reports and from what I can see, forensics were only taken from G5a, Murat's home, the Bergau apartment, the McCann's villa, the hire car (Scenic), Murat's car and a Renault Kangoo (don't know who's this was). Am I right in thinking that forensics were not taken from elsewhere in the OC? Or if they were perhaps they are being withheld from the released files? I'm having some great difficulty with GM's trip home to Rothley to collect an item of Madeleines DNA. There has to have been something in PDL from which they could have extracted DNA. A hairbrush, toothbrush (I don't buy the 'children shared one toothbrush' story) etc. Comparisons could then have been made against traces/samples found elsewhere in the OC, if they were taken.

Martin Grimes is on record as saying that the PJ didn't follow up ALL the sites where the dogs alerted. That's it. Of course they didn't do the Burgau apartment, but the police did retrieve material from there. Must look it up, how did the PJ know about this place? On researching Murat I expect.
The request for DNA must have come a lot earlier than the dogs, surely in the few days following 3/5?

by Praia 22.01.12 15:12

I can't be sure of the labelling on the picture.

by Praia 22.01.12 15:26

See how the Payne's sticks out? Those on either side have a good view in of the balcony.
And we are back to the nappy smell, what was the smell in 5B?

by russiandoll 22.01.12 15:32

Genbug wrote:Russiandoll wrote:

So very confusing but what made me sit up and I mean really sit up and take notice was this number 20. PF's address given as NUMBER 20, BLOCK 5G ETC..
I was under the [maybe mistaken] impression that the APARTMENT BLOCKS were NUMBERED and the individual apartments were indicated by a LETTER. It would appear from the CT statement that APARTMENT BLOCKS WERE NUMBERED AND LETTERED AND THE INDIVIDUAL APARTMENTS WERE NUMBERED.

Hi russiandoll, on our complex in Spain we have blocks which are represented by numbers. Within that block, different entrances are represented by letters, and the flats within that entrance are represented by numbers again!

For example, block one would have entrances A, B, C and D. Block two would have entrances E, F G and H. Each block is three stories high, so for example, if someone was in the end top apartment in Block one, their address would be 3-1D.

I'm sure this doesn't help in the slightest, LOL!

I just read somewhere[ lost it now dammit] that the block McCanns and co stayed in was block G [ maybe standing for Gardens]. Follwing what you state above, within G there are then numbers for the apartments. All McCann and co were numbered the same,as was Mrs Fenn's place........letters going from A-G [within this block,G]. Mrs Fenns is signed G5 outside, unlike the McCanns......5A.
So was 5 the number for the block, then? As seems common to all apartments.
Might the confusion over this sudden emergence of a number be due to the differences between MW identifying their apartment blocks within a spread out location in the village of PDL?
MW at OC might well have their own system of ID for the accommodation they rent out, for cleaners and other staff.
The complex is spread out across the village, not self-contained. It probably falls into a municipal area and maybe the town council for its own purposes, taxes, rates , refuse collection etc, ids these addresses differently.
Maybe that block which is G or 5 for MW reasons has to have an id on the street in the municipal area. Its location on that street as far as the town council is concerned will not be the same as its location within the holiday resort complex, will it?
Maybe in the municipal area map this block has a number identifying its location on that particular street and that is where the 20 comes from. Maybe the block is 20 on that street, it isnt the apartment number at all.
Maybe CT saw mail in her aunt's apartment. Numbers and streets mainland Europe are often not written as they are in the UK, [number then street.] As PF was a permanent resident she would have been registered with the local council so maybe this is where the 20 enters into it.
Just a thought, hope not complicating issues further !!

by Upsy Daisy 22.01.12 15:33

Judging by the photo, Mrs Fenn / 5G may be situated directly above 5A however it's also directly adjacent to 5B so potentially any sound travelling up from from 5B may have appeared to Mrs Fenn as coming from directly below in 5A. So....crying on 1st May incident may have been coming from through the wall at 5B???? As we have heard, the sound carries, perhaps it carried slightly further along from 5B instead of what was perceived as 5A by Mrs Fenn at the time?

by Praia 22.01.12 15:34

Fiona says Tanners apt." spilt over" (RI) to the right as she looks down, not a whole apt. over to the right.
The others said Tanner's was directly under the Paynes.
No wonder the PJ asked for detailed descriptions and sketches!
Rachel's statement about the smell every night from the baby's diarrhoea never made sense. Not EVERY night!
Was there a smell in 5B from the Sunday morning that needed explaining??
Stella, Kiko we are back to the Sat. night again!

by russiandoll 22.01.12 15:35

Stella [I think ] posted a diagram showing the relation of apartments to each other within the block...I can't find it, can anyone pinpoint the page please? I thought it was on this thread.

by Praia 22.01.12 15:41

Russiandoll, usually the postal no's are the same for residents and rentals but perhaps?

Upsydaisy you ate bang on about the sound travelling. What could be going on 5B?
Fiona makes it sound like the Oldfields got a 2 bed, thought they booked a 1 bed.
The Oldfields describe a 1 bed.
Were the Oldfields in a 2 bed and not 5B?

by Praia 22.01.12 15:53

Matt in his RI says his child "slept like a top" and had "loose nappies."
Rachel goes over the top in describing the smell, as if they stood at the door of the room sniffing like dogs.
She also says in the RI that her daughter and one of Tanner's shared a bath that Thurs. night. I always wondered why would they do that and risk Tanner's girl catching some bug. As doctor's they would know this.
Was the Oldfield's bug, they all were ill, a cover for a terrible smell in 5B?

by russiandoll 22.01.12 15:54

Praia wrote:Fiona says Tanners apt." spilt over" (RI) to the right as she looks down, not a whole apt. over to the right.
The others said Tanner's was directly under the Paynes.
No wonder the PJ asked for detailed descriptions and sketches!
Rachel's statement about the smell every night from the baby's diarrhoea never made sense. Not EVERY night!
Was there a smell in 5B from the Sunday morning that needed explaining??
Stella, Kiko we are back to the Sat. night again!

Certainly does not make sense. On holiday with a bunch of doctors? Who would almost certainly in these circumstances strongly suggest a trip to hospital as a drip might be needed for dehydration. utter stinking garbage.
I dont accept either that the baby was left unattended with these symptoms.
Everything has to point to concentrate on us all being a bunch of selfish unbelievably silly but supposedly intelligent adults.
The more the focus is on negligence, stupidity and the like the less we look at what really went on.
A complete fabrication, a smokescreen and a misdirection.

I am going to re read the RIs again to date this bad smell and look at 5b.
maybe we need to ask........what was 5b really for if 5a was the stage.

by Guest 22.01.12 16:04

russiandoll wrote:Stella [I think ] posted a diagram showing the relation of apartments to each other within the block...I can't find it, can anyone pinpoint the page please? I thought it was on this thread.

Did you mean this russiandoll?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by russiandoll 22.01.12 16:06

Praia wrote:Matt in his RI says his child "slept like a top" and had "loose nappies."
Rachel goes over the top in describing the smell, as if they stood at the door of the room sniffing like dogs.
She also says in the RI that her daughter and one of Tanner's shared a bath that Thurs. night. I always wondered why would they do that and risk Tanner's girl catching some bug. As doctor's they would know this.
Was the Oldfield's bug, they all were ill, a cover for a terrible smell in 5B?

Really? I doubt both statements are true. Slept right through the gut ache and sensation of filling a nappy with dairrhoea? sorry to be graphic but please...... the baby would have woken through constant nappy changing at least. Please don't tell me that they implied or said they left the baby in a filthy nappy all night long...

slept like a top......I buy this.
while in that kind of discomfort? dont buy it.

sharing a bath and risk passing on that infection?
it would not happen if that were the case imo.
I buy the bath sharing
without the bad guts scenario
its a cover imo