What was 5A used for/

by Praia 17.01.12 15:03

Worriedmum brings up something I wanted to look at today.

Sr Amaral's book is meant to guide us. Read how he comments on 5A and that there were few signs of three little ones staying in it.
I wonder were are their sandals, trainers for example. He mentions the lack of milk. We cant see into the cupboards and fridge for cereal, yogurts, cheese, kiddie snacks etc. but the police could.

Look at the files, were are the bathroom pictures. they must have been kept back. Why?? Did they show the wet towels, the basic toiletries for adults and children?

It was supposedly used that evening to bathe three children and for two adults to shower or bathe?? What shampoo, was the fllor still damp, were are the wet towels placed. I think one hangs from the adults bedroom door.
If Healy went running there should be traces of sand in her runners etc.

I think the lack of info in the files is a red flag. The bathroom is important. Where are all the hair samples for testing and the results??

Just a few ideas.

by Guest 17.01.12 15:25

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I know what my bathroom looks like after 1 grandchild has used it, heavens know what it would look like after 3 of them and 2 adults. You can just about see into the bathroom here 16 & 17, not much going on apart from one towel on the floor and what looks like a large bottle, possibly bubblebath on the shelf above the sink. Why would it be there and not on the bath tub?

by Praia 17.01.12 15:33

Thats what I mean. There are no close up pictures. Where are the ones indicating where hairs were found??

The last place Madeleine was supposed to be before bed is the bathroom, the condition it was found in is important.

Where in 5A is the trace evidence of the children? Even with a clean up there should be stray blonde hairs from the twins. I wonder was it steam cleaned. People in the property game would know all about deep steam cleaning and how to get the equipment here.

by jd 17.01.12 15:36

I wonder if they were also keen on cleaning away any evidence of payne being in the bathroom

by Guest 17.01.12 15:39

I think if the shower curtain had been used that night and was wet, it would not have been pushed all the way back to the wall out of sight. You would allow it to dry, surely?

by Guest 17.01.12 15:41

Scrap that, just seen they had a glass shower screen, not a curtain. I wonder if it had water droplet stains on it? If we had a close up, we might be able to tell.

by Praia 17.01.12 15:42

I do not see a shower curtain. Do you remember talk at the start of a missing shower curtain???

by Guest 17.01.12 15:44

Ooh, no face flannels over the edge of the bath. No bath sponges or things for the twins to play with...

by Guest 17.01.12 15:47

Praia wrote:I do not see a shower curtain. Do you remember talk at the start of a missing shower curtain???

Just noticed a glass fitted shower screen over the left hand side of the bath. I'm betting it is as shiny as the day the cleaner left it too. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by jd 17.01.12 15:55

There doesn't seem to be much clothes in the wardrobe either. Maybe this family of 5 did all share everything together after all!!

by Praia 17.01.12 16:24

Yes Stella but look where the shower fitting is to the right. That won't keep all the water in.

by Praia 17.01.12 16:48

The twins nappy changing stuff has been removed, they were allowed take essentials. Surely not the clothes?
There looks to be dirty washing in the wardrobe.
Somehow it looks staged.
The trousers on the bed, remember the Smith description of the man they saw.
The GNR arrive, you notice sand on your trousers, you fling yourself onto the ground, roll around. Good thinking.

by jd 17.01.12 17:03

Praia wrote:.
The GNR arrive, you notice sand on your trousers, you fling yourself onto the ground, roll around. Good thinking.

I think there is another reason for the rolling on the ground but this is for a different topic all together

by Praia 17.01.12 17:30

I feel it covered two birds with one stone. Problem is the GNR officers did not recognise or ignored the signals.

by Praia 18.01.12 17:09

When Healy called the maintenance men to show her to use a washing machine in 5A I wonder was she nervous about the special load she needed to wash, maybe check on a particular programme.
Again I asked around, nobody had ever needed to explain the washing machine instructions. In rentals many have the manuel that comes with a white good in a nearby drawer, in different language.
What was she washing after three days. Drying outside in early May can take forever. Most people have enough clothes for a week, wash on Tues., drying can take til Thurs/Fri.

by finch 18.01.12 17:29

All of this begs the question....... if it was staged, why was it done so badly?

by Praia 18.01.12 18:09

You say" done badly", I do not think anyone in May 2007 thought people from all walks of life would be pouring over every little detail nearly five years later.
The ability of the Portuguese investigator's was greatly underestimated, witness how fast Sr Amaral was called to Faro on other duties.

by **tigger** 18.01.12 18:09

finch wrote:All of this begs the question....... if it was staged, why was it done so badly?

Very simple:they choose Portugal, full of foreigners, simply tell them what happened, have the story backed up by the T 7. They are Doctors!, middle class. They are also arrogant, narcissistic people. These kind of people never think that anything they do is below standard.

Yes, it was bodged right from the start. They overlooked the fact that with so many players, you need a script. That's why they sat down and sorted out two timelines before the police came. Time that would have been better spent looking for the child. But they never did, Kate claims they looked for an hour the following day, I doubt that very much.

There's an enormous difference between the actual 'abduction' and the cover up that's still going on. The first was totally bodged, the second is highly professional and very efficient. We may conclude therefore, that the cover-up is not done by the McCanns.

by Praia 18.01.12 19:12

I agree Tigger. We should look at the two seperately.

by **tigger** 18.01.12 19:33

Praia wrote:I agree Tigger. We should look at the two seperately.

Himself called them two chav doctors, not wide off the mark imo. As you say, in their worst dreams they couldn't have expected the likes of us to be pouring over every detail.
More than anything else, it's their vindictiveness that gets me. But if you read the topic on 'did they mean to stay in Portugal? I think they feel very badly done by. They're not having the lifestyle they thought they'd have, not the celebrity friends etc. So by suing Amaral and all and sundry, they're simply trying to get their own back on the people who've spoiled it for them.

But the protection is working fine, I hear SY has almost reached the 3 million mark in expenses, how on earth can that be justified and calculated?

by Daisy 18.01.12 20:25

Mrs Fenn's statement only adds to my doubts about the McCann's actually residing in 5A during that holiday.

When questioned,
she said that she never
heard any arguments between the couple or with their children. She said
that the family would spend
much time outside of the
apartment and therefore she did not notice their presence.

She said that until that night
she had never spoken to
the McCANN's, because up until the 3rd May, she only sometimes saw them
walking in the street.
She never saw them with
any vehicle.

A family of five - 3 toddlers, and she did not notice their presence? (apart from the crying incident) Impossible! Mrs Fenn lived in that apartment all year round; according to her niece, the only permanent resident in block G. It must have been eerily quite at certain times of year. I'm sure she'd be only too aware of their presence, if they really were living there.

by Advocatus 18.01.12 20:52

Praia wrote:Thats what I mean. There are no close up pictures. Where are the ones indicating where hairs were found??

The last place Madeleine was supposed to be before bed is the bathroom, the condition it was found in is important.

Where in 5A is the trace evidence of the children? Even with a clean up there should be stray blonde hairs from the twins. I wonder was it steam cleaned. People in the property game would know all about deep steam cleaning and how to get the equipment here.

Didn't GM have to fly back to Rothley to get DNA samples from MBM's pillow? Why no blonde hairs on the pillow in Luz? Why no MBM DNA anywhere (apparently) in 5a? When asked by the PJ for Maddie's toothbrush for DNA analysis, KM allegedly replied that the kids all used the same one!

I've said before, GM supplying Maddie's alleged DNA evidence is just not acceptable. It would be shot down in court as a clear breach of chain of evidence customs. I've Gerry gave me a Mars Bar I'd check double-quick to make sure it wasn't a Kit-Kat!

by Advocatus 18.01.12 20:59

Praia wrote:When Healy called the maintenance men to show her to use a washing machine in 5A I wonder was she nervous about the special load she needed to wash, maybe check on a particular programme.
Again I asked around, nobody had ever needed to explain the washing machine instructions. In rentals many have the manuel that comes with a white good in a nearby drawer, in different language.
What was she washing after three days. Drying outside in early May can take forever. Most people have enough clothes for a week, wash on Tues., drying can take til Thurs/Fri.

Hmmmm, also on the first day they called maintenance to fix a broken shutter that GERRY HAD DAMAGED! I bet he was testing to see how it worked, could it be levered up ot not, eh? How does Gerry manage to break a shutter on the first day???!!!!!???? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Calling maint also puts on record that they had moved in to 5a, a double-win for them, laying the trail of alibis...

by Advocatus 18.01.12 21:01

finch wrote:All of this begs the question....... if it was staged, why was it done so badly?

YES INDEEDY! $64,000 QUESTION! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Praia 18.01.12 21:02

Daisy I explained earlier about apt. living here. There is no way neighbours would not have heard the family especially with little ones. Without being crude the bathrooms are especially a problem. Most are internal, they have to have ventilation and the sounds will carry. When my family lived in an apt. some were very self concious about it. And many a one has been woken in the night by neighbours getting amorous! The entire block can know who are having a domestic, raise your voice at your peril.