BBC1 tonight - what do members think? ** VIDEO added**

pennylane wrote:I couldn't stomach it, so thank you for the feedback guys!

Ditto the reason .
Thankyou from me too.

Plus Old Clarrie stated CuddleCat wasn't washed for 70 days. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is just not true!

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

"R"  Mitch don't 'arf look worn out in that picture.   So would I be if I had to keep uttering the same old, same old.

I didn't watch it - no point.

So how did they diss the dogs?

The programme conclusion seemed to hang on a ? over De Santos. Yes there is a ? over the Panorama programme. A ? over why;


The inconsistent Tapas 7 statement inconsistencies weren’t explored in detail, specifically the David Payne 6-30 one.

The Mcs changed their original 3 May statements

Murat lied in his original statement of his activities 1 May to 3 May and this wasn’t put to Murat

It didn’t question Murat about his hasty trip to PdL on 1 May booked late 30 April

It didn't explore Tannerman being exposed as a UK guest

The delay and inconsistencies about the Smiths’ statements

The delay and withholding Smithman images by the Mcs and OG

Entry via the window being impossible as there is no forensic evidence

It didn’t say Eddie & Keela were 100% reliable in reply to the flipant comments by Clarrie over cuddle cat.

Jim Gamble took such a keen interest, knew the Mcs are innocent and sent official CEOP documentation to Gerry

Didn’t Bilton say who within TM tried to enlist him to spy on Murat

It didn't explore Kate running from the apartment leaving the twins unattended again when sure was adamant an abductor was at large

But very importantly, it didn’t quiz Clarrie on dropping his very high level job in No 10 to rush to the aid of someone he didn’t know.

 
Not so much Panorama as Pan Amaral

And when showing the dogs alerts they failed to mention Kate's trousers.

Joana Morais blog https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/british-media-documentaries-few-points.html

A few important points to retain:

1- Clarence Mitchell stated he knew that using private detectives whilst a police investigation is ongoing was illegal but attempted to shift blame on to the Portuguese legislation; unlike what he said it's not a technicality issue, but a legal one. The criminal investigation in Portugal is done by the proper police forces PJ, GNR, PSP, under the tutelage of the Ministry of Justice, acting under the guidance of the Public Ministry. He also attempted to excuse, in a somewhat xenophobic and arrogant manner, the use of Spanish detectives because they had similarities to the Portuguese. Along the years the McCanns hired other detectives and retired cops who were predominantly British, so Mitchell excuse does not hold water.

2 - Bilton, with a sense of colonialist entitlement, spent a good time of this Panorama illegally doorstepping innocent people, including a schizophrenic man that was one of the three suspects of the English investigation. Suspects that were easy targets, which, according to the Portuguese media at the time, the English were so keen to caught they even asked the PJ to get their DNA without the men's knowledge or consent. Bilton can also be seen intimidating another innocent man, a former Ocean club employee, who like many others lost his job at the resort due to cuts in staff following the child's disappearance and ensuing media onslaught, a man that clearly was unable to answer in an fluid English or even understand what the reporter was asking. Absolutely shameful that Bilton brought this Portuguese man to the media attention, possibly endangering his very needed job and right to privacy.

3 - It's alleged by both the journalist and Clarence Micthell that the Portuguese police offered a plea bargain deal to Kate McCann, those deals are not part of the legal context within the Portuguese juridical system. Kate's lawyer at the time, Carlos Pinto de Abreu, categorically denied this fabrication. This plea bargain rumour seems to have its origins in Philomena McCann, Gerry's sister, interview given to Sky News in 2007.

4 - It is also alleged the McCann's fund is a charity, this is a lie and an attempt to manipulate yet again the gullible public, the fund was never recognised by the Charity Commission. Madeleine's Fund - 'Leaving No Stone Unturned' is in fact a limited company that was established on May, 15 2007, that was notably used, at least once, to pay for the McCann's mortgage of their house in Rothley, Leicestershire.

5 - It's alleged Jim Gamble was called in early on the investigation to "help the Portuguese". He was certainly not called by the Portuguese Judiciary Police, there's no reference to his name on the case files. If anything he was called by the parents.

6 - Theresa May, the then Home Office secretary is presented at the Leveson inquiry, affirming the government were about to review the Maddie case anyway, and that her decision was not due to pressures of News international. Whilst Jim Gamble, who seems to have a standing dispute with the now British prime minister since the CEOP debacle in 2010 alleges the reason for the reopening was due to pressures by Murdoch's media group. The story behind the reopening was fully researched by the now extinct Exaro newspaper, a series of investigative reports pointing to how Jim Gamble's report commissioned by Theresa May's predecessor in 2010, which has now resurfaced in Sky News Brunt's documentary (bellow), was possibly used to politically interfere in police matters and force the Metropolitan police to open a review of the Maddie case with a specific remit.

7 - Murat seems to have been targeted on purpose by unknown people in the McCann camp. Bilton makes shocking allegations that should be investigated by the police.

8 - There are, as usual, xenophobic inferences throughout both documentaries, depicting the Portuguese police and its investigation of the Maddie case as inept.

9 - Not sure what to say of the appearance of the Argentinian ufologist, chemtrails debunker and prolific online commentator, who claims to have tipped off the English police about the three 2014 suspects and burglaries. Apparently this information was taken seriously by the English police, as well as by the BBC reporter. Fact is, the video that was filmed by Heriberto himself, starts with the shutters already slightly raised, we have no idea where it was shot, fails to explain why and how would a burglar-turned-abductor be able to enter and leave carrying a child without leaving any traces through a single-sliding window.

5 - It's alleged Jim Gamble (Ex CEOP 'boss') was called in early on the investigation to "help the Portuguese". He was certainly not called by the Portuguese Judiciary Police, there's no reference to his name on the case files. If anything he was called by the parents.
-----------------------------------

And didn't Gerry Mc 'end up with' some rather 'interesting' (CEOP 'restricted' manuals?) bedside locker 'books'!

Madrid, Espejo Público [an Antena3 TV Show]

Images of the McCanns second apartment in Praia da Luz, Algarve, Portugal. The Portuguese police searches the McCanns apartment and finds several sleeping medicaments, confidential CEOP manuals, books about murder like The Interpretation of Murder................

At the other side of the bed, on Gerry's bedside table the attention is given to, between other books, "The interpretation of Murder ". In the study [office space] where Gerry writes his blog and where he works at the campaign to find his daughter, another surprise: CEOP manuals, books with access restricted to police and governmental entities.

Before this discovery, Mark Harrison, the British police officer sent from the United Kingdom to coordinate the case, does not give credit. He wonders how many married couples had access to these manuals, which are exclusively reserved to police officers?

Hi GGG,point 9 Joana Morais-Heriberto?
This Entrance through the"Jemmied Shutters"by lifting the shutter by hand,then manipulating the blind system through the window to gain full access to the children's bedroom,thereby shown in Panorama,having access to any child sleeping in the bed under the window,without having to go into the apartment?
The bed Madeleine was sleeping in according to the statements,was alongside the wall nearest to the Door.Not has shown in Richard Bilton's Panorama?
The Panorama programme split the Two versions of the Police Forces narratives!
What clearly was not shown was the intrusion by specific persons in the Portugal PJ investigation,May 2007-September 2007,when the parents decided to leave Portugal,Two days after being named as Arquidos.
Then from October 2007 to July 2008,when the case was closed subject to New evidence being made produced to re-open the case,Operation Grange 2011?
Scotland Yard has spent Six Years investigating a Remit drawn up by the"Gold group" and spent over £11 Million pounds of the Tax payers Money and still have no Leading suspects,after declaring that the Tapas 7/9,parents of missing Madeleine McCann are not suspected of any involvement in her disappearance,reported as 3 May 2007?
Richard Bilton,clearly failed to point out as to how a News Paper,could influence a Government to review of Madeleine McCann's disappearance by a UK Police Force,he(RB) showed(TM)at Leveson but failed to show Rebekah Brooks at Leveson,"Persuade"David Cameron?
Simon Foy's proverbial head on the chopping block,after DCS Andy Redwood,DCI Hamish Campbell have now "Gracefully retired"from the fray they have left behind,Operation Grange-Remit,Abduction,geddit?

Get'emGonçalo wrote:And when showing the dogs alerts they failed to mention Kate's trousers.

 Yes and the Gaspar statements ignored totally - a Freudian slip?

Didn't Mitchell also state that Kate answered all the questions that were put to her by the PJ on 4 occasions, or did i mishear that bit?

Re cuddle cat not being washed for 70 days - since when do we take the word of a 'journalist' as being worth anything? At this point even if the British police stated that I wouldn't believe it, but was CM with Kate all day every day? Does he actually have any idea whether or not cuddle cat was washed? In fact a police officer wouldn't make such a stupid statement because it's impossible to prove its veracity.

Silverspeed wrote:Didn't Mitchell also state that Kate answered all the questions that were put to her by the PJ on 4 occasions, or did i mishear that bit?

 Correct he did. But equally Gerry answered all the questions on 4 separate occasions and he answered everything as an arguido. So why not Kate, Clarrie?

If it was my child I'd answer the question 444 times if the police thought that would help find the child.

willowthewisp wrote:Hi GGG,point 9 Joana Morais-Heriberto?
This Entrance through the"Jemmied Shutters"by lifting the shutter by hand,then manipulating the blind system through the window to gain full access to the children's bedroom,thereby shown in Panorama,having access to any child sleeping in the bed under the window,without having to go into the apartment?
The bed Madeleine was sleeping in according to the statements,was alongside the wall nearest to the Door.Not has shown in Richard Bilton's Panorama?

I've posted this previously but I think it's worth repeating.

I think that the shutter demo was staged because it was already open to some degree when the clip started & the window could not be slid open to reach the shutter cord unless it had been opened from the inside so this must have been done for the demo purposes.

As soon as the sliding window goes into the frame it snaps locked in the middle automatically so if Panorama are saying that this is how an intuder got in then they're saying that the McCanns left the window open but the McCanns state they left the window closed.

Verdi has posted a clip of PeterMac partially opening the actual 5A shutter from the outside but it made a hell of a noise & wouldn't stay up on it's own & he didn't slide the window open.

I have watched it twice now and I don't feel as TOTALLY negative as some other members.  

The 2nd time I watched it with a friend and at the beginning he kept saying, "You told me that", but somehow because it was on the TV he could better relate to the information.  For some viewers, it will have been the first time that they had heard about the McCanns being suspected of faking the abduction.  

I have been watching a thread on another major, international forum about the BBC programme and, although there are the usual posts about the 'poor parents', there are some posters who simply didn't realise that there could be something amiss. Interestingly, the thread has been left to stand even though members of that international forum know that the Admin have deleted every thread about the McCanns in the past.

So what did 'ordinary' viewers learn that MSM haven't told them before?

• The abduction scenario is disputed - forensic evidence does not support this theory
  
• Only Kate McCann's finger-print was found on the children's bedroom window
  
• The witness statements of the Tapas 9 were conflicting - considered to be lies
  
• EVRD dogs indicated a death in the apartment and in the hire car
  
• Kate McCann refused to answer 48 questions put to her by the PJ
  
• The Supreme Court (Portugal) has recently emphasised that the McCanns were NOT declared innocent when arguido status was removed
  
• Richard Bilton wasnt 'allowed' to show a 2012 interview he made with Goncalo Amaral at the time, but he can now
  

What I think weakened this information was intersposing Clarence Mitchell to 'refute' any questions and doubt.  For example, it is ludicrous to suggest that two DOCTORS could have harmed their child and hid the body. (Their profession was emphasised)

The UK police's point of view (abduction) wasn't as well presented I didn't think. 

• Door-stepping 2 persons of interest was not a good move. It was cringe-worthy viewing.  
  
• The opening of the shutter re-enactment was clearly not the window on apartment 5A and was already partially opened as filming started
  
• Those interviewed were weak in their responses to questions (Alan Johnson etc)
  

Overall, I think the BBC programme has got people talking again and some people who didn't dare express doubt about the McCanns have now found their voice.

RosieandSam wrote:
What I think weakened this information was intersposing Clarence Mitchell to 'refute' any questions and doubt.  For example, it is ludicrous to suggest that two DOCTORS could have harmed their child and hid the body. (Their profession was emphasised)

The UK police's point of view (abduction) wasn't as well presented I didn't think. 

- Door-stepping 2 persons of interest was not a good move. It was cringe-worthy viewing.  
- The opening of the shutter re-enactment was clearly not the window on apartment 5A and was already partially opened as filming started
- Those interviewed were weak in their responses to questions (Alan Johnson etc)

Overall, I think the BBC programme has got people talking again and some people who didn't dare express doubt about the McCanns have now found their voice.Clarence

Mitchell brought class & status into it.

Glad you spotted the shutters being opened before the clip started & you're right, it wasn't 5A because bars had been fitted to 5A the window before the documentary was filmed.

This is just one comment from someone who watched the programme and now doubts the McCanns:

It did have a really weird tone, that smirking spin doctor guy did them no favours at all, there was a general sort of elephant in the room feeling right through it, the sense that everyone was skirting around something not to be mentioned...and it's the McCann's isn't it?

See, even people who don't know about Mitchell's sychophantic role recognise that he is untrustworthy.

B
I am appalled that Bilton was allowed by the BBC to interview a vulnerable man and broadcast this interview without clarification In regard to  if this man understood what he was being asked, consented to being filmed and was aware of his rights. I would very much like to know if he was paid and if he realised by that by giving the interview it would be broadcast on British TV and likely worldwide thereafter. 

I really feel angry about this and am concerned for this individual, who's mental capacity and understanding of the English language is debatable 

Safeguarding the rights of others remains as pertinent today as it was 10 years ago.

It reminded me of the unacceptable door-stepping of Brenda Leyland by Martin Brunt (presenter of the Sky1 programme)

 
The body of Brenda Leyland, 63, was found in a hotel room in Leicestershire on Saturday. Police are not treating her death as suspicious.

(...)


The broadcaster confronted her in her home village of Burton Overy, in an exchange that was shown on air on Thursday.

(...) 

She was informed by reporter Martin Brunt that she had been reported to the police and that officers were considering an apparent campaign of abuse against the couple by her and other online “trolls”. She responded that was “fair enough”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11142421/Twitter-troll-who-abused-Madeleine-McCanns-parents-found-dead.html

I hope someone is checking on the two men who were confronted by Richard Bilton.

RosieandSam wrote:BIt reminded me of the unacceptable door-stepping of Brenda Leyland by Martin Brunt (presenter of the Sky1 programme)

 
The body of Brenda Leyland, 63, was found in a hotel room in Leicestershire on Saturday. Police are not treating her death as suspicious.

(...)


The broadcaster confronted her in her home village of Burton Overy, in an exchange that was shown on air on Thursday.

(...) 

She was informed by reporter Martin Brunt that she had been reported to the police and that officers were considering an apparent campaign of abuse against the couple by her and other online “trolls”. She responded that was “fair enough”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/madeleinemccann/11142421/Twitter-troll-who-abused-Madeleine-McCanns-parents-found-dead.html

I hope someone is checking on the two men who were confronted by Richard Bilton.

I have sent a complaint to the BBC as it is unacceptable and I feel for the mental health of this man since the programme aired.

I hope so too. The BBC on a par with SKY in this respect.

I finally summoned up the courage to watch it. The only reason I did was because someone on my husbands friends on Facebook made a post on their own timeline about it, and said theirs something very fishy going on, this person got a lot of comments all in agreement and now have some serious doubts. So this in itself is a good thing IMO, and made me curious to watch it for myself.

I thought it was ok, the first 20 mins, but from then on I was disgusted by the door stepping, as if Richard Bilton has some rights. I think he said at one point, I can't remember who he was referring to now, but he said something along the lines of...he hasn't been charged with anything, so he doesn't have to speak to us. But he doesn't have to speak to you even if he had been charged. Made me so angry! And the indirect bashing of of the PJ, I hate it, these journo's need to take a closer look at the progress SY have made with £11 million... they would have great difficulty though, because there is absolutely nothing acheived!